Hiring conditions in China

[cumulustratus]

Hi!

My first post here but have been following things on pprune for a while now...

I need some info on my plan on going to China looking for a job (booming market, hundreds of new Airbuses/Boeings etc) too get some perspective from others.

I'm a fATPL guy with MCC coming up this June, and my idea is to head east after the summer, perhaps early September, from my home in Sweden. The idea is to sign up for a Chinese college and study chinese for a year in Shanghai or equivallent, and meanwhile go hunting for airlinejobs. Money won't be a problem as the Swedish government will supply me with 6900 SEK (about £500) per month which should be more than enough for living costs and travelling around in China to various airline HQs.

My impression of the Chinese pilot market is that foreigners aren't welcome as they don't speak the language and don't know the culture. But what if I'm living there permanently and can get around with the language, is there any chance for me to get my foot through the door somewhere?

And also: Is a JAR-FCL certificate valid in China? What is the Chinese CAAs stand on expats?

Appreciate any comments and ideas, as I think this could be a good substitute to the ever growing no guarantees self funded TR/Line training system that many other lowtimers are choosing.

[yyzdub]

Too many responses so I pulled my post

[Sabastienl]

YYZdub,
Would you be kind enough to share this info. with a humble fellow
CDN from your area! I am also interested in landing flying job in China,
I have B.737 rating + jet transition course....any hope!
Thanks Well appreciated! :)

[dalflyer]

Quite frankly they have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go before any contract they are offering is even close to what the Indians are offering (Jet and Air India). I've been offered 3 positions already and I had to laugh at some of the Pay that was offered. I really thought they had forgot to add a zero at the end of the monthly salary offered on one of the contracts.

It sounds as though that they will have to start offering at least market rates for the crews that they wil be needing soon.....and I mean ALOT of crews. Only when they are forced to park planes because of crew shortages will they start offering more $$$$....Of course it's only my opinion.....

Perhaps in 6-12 months they will be up to par with most other agency/expat contracts....one would hope.

DAL

[tonylollo]

Save your money they only take qualified Captains with hours............... unless you are Chinese

[purple head]

sorry tonylollo but that is 100% no true.

[Sabastienl]

Purplehead,
Would you be inclined to share your knowledge of the chineese market
with the rest of us the "wannbees", any advise....company names you
may recommend to contact .......you can pm if you deire not to post
it! As I mentioned I am interested in landing a flying job ASAP. Any
contacts maybe....! Thanks in advance for any help.
:ok: :)

[airbusboeingdriver]

some co's in chins do hire crew with either type rating AND some hours OR they would hire and type rate you if you have considerably enough experience.

[Kermit750]

I am working in China at the moment and am searching from within for an expat airline job. I am instructing at current but wanted to use my current job as the platform to get into the airlines. It can not be understood until you are operating within just how different things work here. An ICAO operated country with I must say very, very limited ATC abilities. A ridiculously different airspace system and an economy unlike any other I have seen.
While the comments on very low salary are true, before eliminating an opportunity on that basis you must understand just how cheap living is here.
General living expenses are drastically reduced within China, and it is completely possible to have more money left in the pocket at the end of your month than a position in any other jet job in the UK or US or Aus. I guarantee the salary you were offered would still be an impressive amount for the average China Man. Living standards are very high for expats, beer is cheap, cheap women a plenty and living is good.
What I have seen so far is that most all of the airlines require crew immediately, but unfortunately they still expect to be able to apply fairly large requirements. e.g. 5000TT 500hrs specific type time. Requirements for the Type Ratings are "rumoured" to be lifted very soon. I will keep posted.
International Carriers will be the best bet for the next few years as English Speaking Crew are required for those Op's. At current not a great number of domestic crew use english. This I must comment eliminates the use of Situational Awareness when flying in and out of ports with two different languages in use. International salaries are definitely hire.
Overall. China will definitely use as many expats as required to fill demand but any pilot in or out of China that thinks they will not kick us out as soon as they can afford to is kidding themselves. There are a few of these in and out of China.
A perhaps helpful summary of the best bets. Air China Cargo (soon, for those of less experience and no type ratings), China Southern, China Eastern, Shenzen Airlines and most of all China Airlines in Taiwan.
While I should not make comparison to other Major Airline Jobs around the world (as I have only flown Turbo Props for third world country airlines) I am quite willing to comment on the Chinese System, Language requirements, license conversions etc..

[dalflyer]

While it may be true that the cost of living is ALOT lower in China it's still difficult to pay for a mortgage and all the bills at home given the current pay on offer, especiallyif you plan on commuting during the term of the contract.

Contract pay does seem to be increasing year over year. I'm sure it will take a huge leap in a year or two when so many aircraft start getting delivered. What a boon for all the guys if they start type rating people....I'm not holding my breath just yet.

Dal

[828a]

Kermit750;
One of the reasons that expatriates are not wanted in China is because of people like you. Your mind set is clearly revealed by your reference to, quote " average chinaman and cheap women aplenty " unquote. I predict your aviation future working in China is bleak because individuals with an attitude like yours are easily identified and their marching orders quickly follow. Let's see if you are prepared to apologize but I suspect " amende honorable " is beyond your understanding.
828a.

[Kermit750]

I will be very quick to dispell your obvious illusions 828a. I would prefer not to comment on the qualities of an individual whom is so arrogant to assume that anothers "mind set is so clearly displayed" by one quote. Please...

Did you wake up with the sole focus to find an unsuspecting member of any PPRUNE forum and slay him? I can only assess your use of a public forum as suportive to this assumption. A P.M. would be a nice idea before you go labelling someone like you have. Leave your misconceptions in bed next time brother?

I will start harsh because, the truth is your comment actually burnt me... You could not be more far from the truth. I will be surprised if any others who read my post extract such a racist, country demeaning slant like yours. If any one does please do not hesitate to inform me and I assure I will as quickly as humanly possible apologise for the whole deal.

No #&%!! that, I will apologise now. I am sorry 828a, that you have reason to believe an individual who lives and attempts to find work in a country would openly paint that country with the particular brush you believe I have used. I am sorry you feel there is reason to be defensive for China. And I am sorry you have missed the truth.

The Truth, I love this country and every one of it's people.

Simply replace China in "Chinaman" with another non Asian country like mine, "Australiaman" and suddenly you would not assume there is any negative inference. As for "Cheap women" comment, some of us guys that care to live a little would find perhaps the slightest humour in a comment that women of a particular city or country are cheap. If in fact it WAS a reference to members of the oppsite sex who require remunerations for their efforts to please those that use their services, I promise you they would only congratulate me for an endorsement which would bring more of the afformentioned clients there way.

I am insulted, and any further attempt to explain the post would seem an effort in vain to explain myself. And I will NEVER post something that requires me to explain myself.

P.M. me if you would like to discuss it face to face some time. You will see why you got it so wrong today.

:ok:

[Sick Squid]

Alright, let's not get bogged down in semantics. Draw a line under the comments and move on please.

Back to the topic....

[828a]

Sick Squid;
As a moderator you might think it cool to come up a premature laconic remark that is designed to stifle debate but we camp followers may not necessarily agree or be impressed by your reasoning.
828a.

[jetjockey696]

guys

I know that my post is 1 dot left of the ILS, of the orginal post. I need help to track down the address or email address of HR Dept of Shenzhen Airlines,

I have seen all the horror stories.... I guess I am a person who like it really rough..

So who do I write the my life story to in shenzhen air

Thanks

JJ696

[rsull]

Kermit750
Thankyou for your insight into life and work in China.
What airlines do you suggest we should contact, and do you have details for them?

thanks

[King Air]

you may try the united eagle airlines in chengdu

[Start4&3]

Air Macau would be a good start. They are based in MFM and don't ask me about their phone number just google it.

[Speedbreak]

Air Macau's contacts are on www.ppjn.com

In "Asia", then Click " China"..

Bye :)

[typhoonpilot]

I had an interesting conversation with a China Eastern captain the other day. It would appear they are looking at bringing on expat captains and first officers in the near future. It would probably be through a contract agency though. No idea as to pay and conditions.

TP