JAA ATPL NEW LICENCE FOR AUSTRALIA

[emu787]

Heard on a recent international Business Class flight that the new ATPL standard for Australia will be the European JAA ATPL - 14 subjects etc etc. $$$$$
Apparently the "AIRLINE" and the Regulator agree the Australian ATPL standard is not up to scratch and ALL Australian international and eventually domestic pilots will have to do the JAA ATPL Licence. In other words if you want to fly in overseas airspace very soon you will have to do the subjects at least......according to the very well informed and uniformed source.

[skywest_xr]

is it just by chance that the advertising header for this page is the advert for the WAAC JAA course?

the fact u have only made one post and are from perth also seems interesting.

mind u, if u going overseas.....u will find u have to do most of it anyway. dont know about spending almost 4000 grand on a jaa course though.....learning stuff we should already know.

[ITCZ]

What a load of rubbish.

Most of the ATPL holders' that would be affected by such a change, if it really was on the cards, would get recognition of their existing license.

[NZLeardriver]

But it was heard on International Business Class Flight. I would not have believed it if it was a domestic flight, or economy class, but an International Business Class Flight - must be true.

[3 Holer]

This is either a wind up or skywest_xr has hit the nail on the head !

[emu787]

Well, you have all been warned.....do not come whinging later on as usual on pprune. Just take a look at the Flight International job search today and you will see the latest job is for A330 Capt and FO for Australasia operation and you must have a JAA ATPL. Don't forget you must have a JAA ATPL to fly a JAA registered aeroplane even if it is BASED in or near Australia and operated by an existing or even new or offshoot Australian Airline and maintained overseas!!!!! Don't rely on your OZ ATPL having grandfather rights. Ring CASA and ask them are they moving towards the JAA System.:D

[skywest_xr]

the A330 jobs are for Air Luxor, now known as hi-fly operating CS-TMT on behalf of strategic aviation for the ADF.

The portuguese pilots arent liking the long posting from home so they are looking for some locals who are already type rated who can fill the plug for the time being.

Of course a portuguese carrier requires a JAR ATPL. Nothing to do with a change in australian legislation.

Perhaps you should try first class....you get better sources on first class flights?

[Metro man]

Did all the European pilots whose countries moved to the JAA system have to redo all their exams and flight tests again ? I think not.

Look at the problems and delays involved simply in getting ASICS for everyone, imagine the disruption if all professional pilots had to write 14 exam papers. Time to study, time off to write exams, what happens to the inevitable failures ? are they grounded ? Are there enough examiners for all the flight tests ?

Be realistic, prehaps Australia moves to the JAA system in time and new pilots end up doing it the JAA way. Think how different todays exams are to the exams the senior QANTAS captains took, before EFIS,GPS etc

[18-Wheeler]

Don't forget you must have a JAA ATPL to fly a JAA registered aeroplane even if it is BASED in or near Australia and operated by an existing or even new or offshoot Australian Airline and maintained overseas!!!!!

Is that right?
I don't and have been doing it legally for nearly six years.
Imagine that ...

[Watchdog]

18 Wheeler...yeah me too - :ok:

[BAE146]

Agree with 18 wheeler. Aussies over here all have Omani ATPLS issued on the strength of their ozzie ATPLS. Most european jobs have always required British ATPL now it's JAA. travel economy next time for the genuine goss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[emu787]

I can see why you are just line pilots......you don't read the text! Yes, you can fly a JAA registered aircraft on a Validation but not forever. THIS IS NOT WHAT I HAVE SAID. You will be required to do the LICENCE, NOT A CONVERSION. Well, If you haven't worked it out by now, you never will.
115 new jets, foreign registration and hence foreign pilots and NO union problems.What a STAR of an idea.

[Ronnie Honker]

Hmmmm, I alluded to PRECISELY that on another post in this forum, emu, here
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215386&page=4

It doesn't take a genius to work out that QF can see the court battle between the Jet* & AIPA pilots being a protracted one.

Solution = approach anti-unionist/pro Bush (also anti-unionist) supporter, little Johnny H to make JAA licences recognised DIRECTLY by the CAA, then advertise for A330 crews...lots of, with immediate requirement.

While the QF & J* lots are in a dogfight, tearing hair off each other, but with no idea where the bone actually is, remove the bone and throw it to another pack that is standing quietly on the sidelines.

Result = The ONLY Jet* or QF pilots who'll see the A330 are those who break ranks early enough.
Dixon and Little Johnny must be wetting themselves with excitement as you lot tear yourselves apart - and end up with ZILCH!

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Ronnie... what are you on?

There is no court battle between J* pilots and AIPA. AIPA has taken QF to the IRC and Federal Court, not the J* pilots.

Your increasingly bizarre postings today lead me to question how many you have had...:eek:

[Watchdog]

Emu,
good try but no trophy.
If CASA goes JAA then current ATPLs will be recognised.

Secondly, these Foreign Pilots, Foreign Rego etc. how are they going to get OZ residency therefore work permits working for an OZ company?

[Ronnie Honker]

My poor choice of wording, TCoB - I meant over the Jet* pilots (getting the 330).

My post still stands.
Neither Darth nor Little Johnny want to see any union dictate to their employer, and this is a prime opportunity to kick AIPA's ass, and to cut both the Australian Jet* & QF pilots out of the deal.

these Foreign Pilots, Foreign Rego etc. how are they going to get OZ residency therefore work permits working for an OZ company?
Darth Dixon advises Little Johnny that he can't crew the A330, because AIPA is blocking the Jet* pilots.
Therefore Nno qualified Australian pilots available within Australia (aka Australia 1989...am I allowed to mention that?)
Overseas pilots are now eligible to enter Australia, and be given work & residency.
Ain't the first time - ask the Jet* supervisories, most of them would have worked hand-in-hand with the imports back "then".
I'm sure they'll welcome the new lot as well.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Emu,
I said it a few days ago ( though my post was deleted! )

I'm going to have a few weeks off because I continually contribute meaningless posts in PPRuNe. I don't need to accuse others of drug taking, either!
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Woomera (Eastern States)

[emu787]

Well Mr Buzzy.....I don't live or work in Australia and certainly DO NOT have a flying school or any association with one. Maybe I will get some better info next time I travel but unfortunately I only ever travel Business Classs Mr Buzzy..... I think you are in denial like most line pilots when it comes to your future!!!Ronny Honker obviously is one step ahead of the rest.:D Remember....don't come whinging in the future. And for you Watchdog.......JAA ATPLs standard is far superior to the OZ ATPL standard so there will be NO recognition....thats why they will introduce JAA Standards!!!

[Mr.Buzzy]

Okie Doke Emu:ok:
I'm off to hit the books!
I understand you may be relaying a message that was passed to you but surely you agree that your delivery is a little dramatic. Can you really see every ATPL holder flying in Australia sitting every JAA exam? I'd believe a bridging course or similar but not the whole lot.

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[Pine Tree]

Emu787 - A JAA ATPL is not a valid licence to fly an Australian Registered aircraft. You need an Australian ATPL for that. As long as Australia registers its own aircraft the Australian ATPL will remain. I would have thought ICAO determined whose licence was valid when operating outside a country; and not the UK or European Aviation Authorities? There are more international licences than just the JAA ATPL and Australian ATPL! Britain is a foreign country to us, like most other countries and Australia has nothing to do with the European Common Market, so what’s the big deal about the JAA ATPL?

Skywest_xr has already told you that the reason the JAA ATPL A330 requirement in Darwin is because the aircraft is European registered. Otherwise, like others have said – you are dreamin’ and are unlikely to get a job with QF, Virgin Blue, Jetstar or any of the Australian Regionals with a JAA ATPL! The major airlines in Australia require that a candidate has passed the Australian ATPL theory exams of the Australian CASA and not just gone overseas and converted a foreign licence to an Australian licence . In addition, our immigration laws are now very selective.

I thought the only reason that Perth mob had the JAA ATPL course was for POMS to get a job back in the UK. Aussies can’t get a job in the UK unless their parents were born there, so realistically any move in ‘JAA Territory’ is limited to those of UK descent.

[Going Boeing]

Ronnie

You just don't get it. The legal action taken by AIPA is not to stop Jet* pilots flying the A330 but is to ensure that they get appropriate compensation and work conditions and therefore put the brakes on the race to the bottom.

[Watchdog]

No Emu, you are incorrect.

In 89 - the fat man asked his good mate Bob to allow the 'imports'. It was a unique strike situation and Bob slipped it throught Parliment in the wee hours. "Darth Dixon" won't get such a benefit.

[redsnail]

Emu,

As one who's done both the Australian ATPL exams (1995) and the JAA exams (2001) I can honestly say that the Australian exams are not a piece of cake. Nor are they impossible. The JAA syllabus requires a comparatively shallow depth of knowledge on a broad range of subjects where as the Australian syllabus requires a much deeper level of knowledge on a narrower range of subjects.

The Australian ATPL syllabus doesn't bother with the multi engine piston stuff as it was covered in the CPL & IR syllabus. The JAA system is set up so you don't have to do the CPL or IR syllabus, just the PPL and ATPL.

[onya]

Thanks Redo, I for one wasn't aware of that. :ok:

[Sheepdog]

You are spot on Redsnail, nothing has changed since you did them. I just finished last month.

Been flying the same aircraft same EU airspace for 4 years then they changed the rego to an EU. So no exemptions , 14 exams thankyou. 1 year and 5000 pounds later and im still flying the same aircraft same airspace.

Half the exam is at CPL level and the other at ATPL. they even have VFR nav and coms in the exams! the Aust ATPL is much more orientated to large transport category aircraft and operations.

:{

[savio3]

The United Kingdom is reviewing the entry requirements. In the future family and ancestry may not entitle work visas. It is moving toward a points system. There MAY be a time when Australian pilots with JAA licences will favoured, due to a shortage of pilots in the U.K.

[Sheepdog]

Knowing my luck they will change the rules this year and other ICAC state licences will be acceptable!

[Easy Ryder]

There MAY be a time when Australian pilots with JAA licences will favoured, due to a shortage of pilots in the U.K.

LOL that'll never happen. Theres plenty of pilots waiting in the wings. And if they do dry up they'll employ ppl from the EU first before ever granting working permits to Oz pilots... If you wanna work in UK marry someone from an EU member state.

[Sheepdog]

Well Easy Ride you just confirmed my thoughts on the EU atitude. The present systen of licencing has no safety basis, just pure politics.

Your solution that they have pilots in the wings maybe right, but one lacking factor they have to find ones that have a tiny bit of experience and who are willing to work! you will have to check a few iron lungs before you fine one.:ok: