PDA

View Full Version : Do modern guns only work if you hold them sideways?


Onan the Clumsy
12th Mar 2006, 02:22
Maybe it's a kind of safety feature. Perhaps children will think you have to hold the gun carefully in both hands taking care to keep the web of your thumb away from the slide, identify the target, take aim, slow the breathing and carefuly loose off a round into the intended victim without jerking the barel across the field of fire.

Imagine their surprise then when confronted with the new Saf-T-Grav (tm) and nothing happens: No recoil and no bnag. :(

If only they had held the gun sideways, whilst running and used the modern techinque of just sort of knowing where the bullets are going to go, none of that wasteful lining everything up stuff. After all, holding it sideways is obviously what people who are properly trained would do.

Ah well I'm sure they'll learn their lesson once they recover from the 45 slug that harmlessly passed through their shoulder. That should take all of what? five minutes, if that.

...or have I been watching too many films lately?

Jerricho
12th Mar 2006, 02:35
Lou: Hey Chief, can I hold my gun sideways? It looks so cool.
Wiggum: Whatever you want, birthday boy.

BlueWolf
12th Mar 2006, 03:36
Nah, the sideways hold only works on the recoil-less automatic with the 300-round magazine.

If you hang on to them tight, they'll lead you through all manner of interesting body rolls and leaps.

Don't worry, because you won't get hurt; but you'll find that you easily manage to take out 17 assailants armed with submachine guns, two manning 50-cal positions, one random with an RPG launcher, and the driver of an armoured bus with front-mount flamethrowers.

Then, when you've fought your way through to the primary bad guy, wounded him, and have him at your mercy, you must remember to cock your weapon before proceeding to threaten him.

brickhistory
12th Mar 2006, 09:59
Don't forget to 'monologue' the bad guy before cocking said weapon....

Rainboe
12th Mar 2006, 10:15
I can safely say from years of experience playing cowboys and Indians (up until I was 50), and years of watching the Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, Wagon Train etc, cowboys fire their guns upright only, even if peering over a rock. Sometimes they almost fling them up over a rock or plank and fire then duck again, but they never fire them sideways! I am most disturbed where this sideways thing comes from- it's hit the screens bigtime in the last few years, and I would put it down to a generation of actors who never did their time playing C & I like the Milky Bar kid. I have shot pistols at ranges and never felt the urge to hold them sideways. I have tried the sexy crouching, 2 hands on the handle pose 'spread 'em' pose and doing a quick draw fire from the hip (totally inaccurate), but holding guns sideways shows complete inexperience in guns I think.

vapilot2004
12th Mar 2006, 10:17
Oh go ahead.......... hold the weapon sideways - it looks urban-cool and the aim is perfectly adequate for W I D E or s l o w moving targets with your semi. Now a .22 CAL would have fewer aiming issues, but practically no mojo. ( baby ) :}


"Mr. Broccoli, may I have some more 'ammo' please ?" - 007 got it right.

tony draper
12th Mar 2006, 10:26
Actually there was a rather famous Marine Sergeant in the USA in the fifties who became a world champion pistol shot utiling that strange handgrip,one has a old Guns and Ammo magazine about he place with photies of him shooting in exactly that stance,though why it should have been adopted by the mincing ninnies of hollywood is a mystery,apart from the looking cool bit as someone has already mentioned.
One tried it at the time with ones Webley Senior without much success.
:rolleyes:

airship
12th Mar 2006, 10:39
You have to hold handguns sideways otherwise the sights get in the way of a full view of the target. :8

Solid Rust Twotter
12th Mar 2006, 11:17
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/Lardbeast/homeboy_night_sights.jpg

eal401
12th Mar 2006, 11:34
...or have I been watching too many films lately?
Yeah, too many mid-90's films.

BDiONU
12th Mar 2006, 12:50
They must have trained up some of these guys in Monrovia ;)
http://p076.ezboard.com/fhistorypoliticsandcurrentaffairs68862frm9.showMessage?topic ID=2050.topic

Although I once read that the reason 'Gangstas' hold their weapons is that US Police Department were consulted about gang behaviour for a film. At that time they were taking massive casualties from gang related incidents, so they told the film crew that they use positions where it is impossible to use sights, cases fall back into the working parts and cause stoppages etc. Hey presto, gangstas think it's cool and have very poor weapon handling techniques.


BD

Davaar
12th Mar 2006, 12:56
I want to avoid embarrassing myself here. Does this discussion include the automatic weapons manufactured and sold for use in political demonstrations in the Middle East? I mean those that are by strict convention discharged vertically upwards, give or take no more than five degrees?

Rainboe
12th Mar 2006, 13:27
All looks very cool, but watched Rambo First Blood the other day and for coolness scores, that's tops, with Sylvester running around with headband and scruffy jeans, holding some enormous machine gun and firing it with the belt wrapped around his arm. A gun that apparently needs a tripod to support it and a truck to move it! But what muscle definition!

brickhistory
12th Mar 2006, 14:12
Ah, that would be the M-60 7.62mm machine gun with the bipod attachment.

May we show you something else in the belt-fed line?

Hilico
12th Mar 2006, 14:14
Jerricho, the one I always remember is where Lisa campaigns for an end to all firearms.

Lou: Do I have to give up my gun Chief? It always made me feel like a man. Now all I got is my enormous genitals.

airship
12th Mar 2006, 14:19
But what muscle definition!

http://www.i-kirk.info/tales/m60.gif

Noah Zark.
12th Mar 2006, 16:40
I like the ad. for "HomeBoy Nyte-Sytes"
Rugged design will stand being tossed more than 30ft!
:uhoh: :uhoh: :eek:
Oh, I see. That's what you do when you run out of ammo. Throw the empty shooter at them, slosh them with your handbag, then RUN!

Dan Bentley
12th Mar 2006, 16:43
Ah, that would be the M-60 7.62mm machine gun with the bipod attachment.

May we show you something else in the belt-fed line?

Lord of War?:8

G-CPTN
12th Mar 2006, 16:58
Whilst pistol-shooting on a range (WITH Mrs G-CPTN), a Virginian-colony 'cowboy' wearing a Colt 45 loosed-off 5 quick ones at the target. Nothing! Then he adopted the sexy crouching, 2 hands on the handle pose 'spread 'em' pose, and guess what? Bull's-eye. Cowboy withdrew with "I guess it IS me, and not the gun . . . "
At least he was honest.

MMEMatty
12th Mar 2006, 17:08
My couisin (who is on the police gun squad darrn sarrf) once told me that in hospitals near him, "yoofs" of certain, errr, dispositions keep getting admitted with broken wrists, and when questioned about it, they either clam up and say nothing, or say that they have fallen down the stairs or some such thing.

It is obvious to the doctors treating them however, that they have been shooting pistols "home-boy" style, and thus quite nicely put their gun arm in plaster for a few months.

Matt

Jerricho
12th Mar 2006, 17:26
It always made me feel like a man. Now all I got is my enormous genitals.

Something I can relate to :E

FakePilot
12th Mar 2006, 18:03
My couisin (who is on the police gun squad darrn sarrf) once told me that in hospitals near him, "yoofs" of certain, errr, dispositions keep getting admitted with broken wrists, and when questioned about it, they either clam up and say nothing, or say that they have fallen down the stairs or some such thing.
It is obvious to the doctors treating them however, that they have been shooting pistols "home-boy" style, and thus quite nicely put their gun arm in plaster for a few months.
Matt

Yes, and this is the reason they switched to shotguns. But now they have to pick themselves off the ground with each shot.

Seriously, I was in a firearm establishment and some "boies" came in and asked for "hollowpoint" bullets for their shotgun. ????

Foss
12th Mar 2006, 20:03
I was on a pistol shooting course at a range in South Carolina, doing s l o w methodical shooting.
Two 'homeboys' walked in, wearing baggy knee length shorts, basketball shirts, baseball hats, bandanas (sp?) and while still chatting, fired of 15 rounds each from 9mm automatics they pulled from holsters underneath their vests, (Sigs I think) and didn't miss once.
No side firing. No stance either. eek. scary. Then carried on chatting to each other.
Fos
I missed a couple of times. Like the whole target.

con-pilot
12th Mar 2006, 20:51
Could have been undercover cops.

handysnaks
12th Mar 2006, 21:42
You have to hold the gun sideways or the bullets will fall out of the hole in the side!

con-pilot
13th Mar 2006, 00:55
Naw, that's just with shotguns.:p :E

Arm out the window
13th Mar 2006, 02:36
The sideways shooting thing seems to come from the same movie fashion trend as the 'if I do a shitload of cartwheels through a hail of bullets, they will all magically miss me' cliche.
Seems like they can't have a shooting match or a fight without getting all Nadia Comanechi these days - looks bloody stupid I reckon!

tinpis
13th Mar 2006, 03:40
Davaar , yes I have also wondered at the TV news what the drill is when you are one of about 20 Kalash weilding goons pushing a gurney through a seethin mass of lunatics.
Leave the saftey on the Kalash you are holding with your free hand or one up the spout and cocked and allah akba?

Rushton
13th Mar 2006, 10:42
Perhaps we there'll be a modern made Western where the Injuns use their bows sideways:}

tony draper
13th Mar 2006, 11:03
Well according to Hollywood the handgun is also a very effective weapon when thrown at a opponent,because all the cowboys used to do that when they ran out of ammo.
One noted a similar phenomenon with water bottles,riding through the desert and take a sip at yer water bottle and find it empty? turn it upside down and shake it,then throw it away,if you happen upon a water hole in the next mile or so one can alway fill one pockets with same can't one.
:rolleyes:

MMEMatty
13th Mar 2006, 14:56
In all these mideast demos where many people start shooting their AK-47's into the air, how many are hit by the bullets on the way down?

Similarly what about that town in Pakistan (That was on the Michael Palin series "Himalaya") where they will make a working replica of any gun from a picture of it, it seems quite normal to show your wares by firing into the air. Surely some sort of hard hat would presumably be a "must have" fasion accessory?

Matt

airship
13th Mar 2006, 16:07
I've had some further thoughts on the matter which I'd like to share.

I believe that the sideways "Hollywood position" (can we call it that?) may in fact offer higher accuracy in many situations, depending substantially on the person doing the firing. This can be simply explained:

For most males, the usual firing position involves holding the weapon firmly with the wrist in a vertical position. I believe that the human wrist has more mobility in this position compared to being horizontal, but I stand to be corrected. Males will immediately recognise this as being the more "natural" position, something they learned from an early age. They will also associate this position with the natural tendency for the wrist to move up and down, which is not necessarily ideal when discharging a weapon with any accuracy. In the past, I've successfully adopted the 2-handed stance in order to steady my weapon, but in my humble opinion, most men out there are fooling themselves if they think they can master the technique of getting an adequate grip with both hands on theirs.

The "Hollywood position" is also prolly more effective when firing at Kung Fu masters and their proven ability to deflect bullets using the leading edge of their (usually vertically positioned) hands. By firing sideways, the natural tendency for the wrist to move vertically is instead transformed into a sideways deflection, "wrong-handing" your average martial arts protagonist as it were, and giving a higher chance of a hit.

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2006, 16:11
I've experimented with wrist orientation, and I find that whilst horizontal is more restrained than upright vertical, the inverted vertical is much more restricted. Perhaps greater ballistic accuracy would ensue (together with cracked wrists)?

Rushton
13th Mar 2006, 16:15
I always find the wrist action is awkward when there is a silencer attached.

Flash2001
13th Mar 2006, 16:25
Probably improves your chance of getting a second shot off if the magazine spring is weak or rusted. I don't think I've seen a revolver used in this position.

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again.

B Sousa
13th Mar 2006, 16:49
SRT got it right. "Its a Cultural thang."