Need some help ...

[Aer_Lingus]

Hello all,
Im an Irish national holding an Irish passport living in Dubai, U.A.E .
I am 18 years old and going to graduate from secondary school this June.
I am planning on becoming a commercial pilot for any airline in the Middle East or Europe. So im asking for some advice on what i should do when i complete school and where should i go.
So far all ive got planned are these flying schools,
http://www.norwegianaviationcollege.no/ny2/program/ab_initio.asp
http://www.pilottraining.ie/
http://www.emiratesaviationservices.com/
Now i know to be a pilot you have to start from 0 and work to you the top, by 0 im planning on www.aerarann.ie (http://www.aerarann.ie) or www.ryanair.com (http://www.ryanair.com)
So if anyone has got some advise or can point me in some direction id really appreciate it..

[scanscanscan]

You could volunteer to join the USA Airforce and obtain accelerated USA citizenship.
Whilst serving there are opportunities to obtain your FAA flying licences at reduced rates.
With US citizenship you could attempt to upgrade to flying as an airforce crewmember with a pensionable career.
There is the opportunity later into US commercial flying or Emirates if they exist all backed by excellent training and experiance and importantly a government pension.
You should do the hard yards to establish a foundation of US citizenship and Faa licences and not waste time living in hope that something or someone presently in the Emirates will wave a magic wand.
"Fate is the Hunter" is a book you might enjoy if considering a flying career. Good luck.

[Captain Bug Smasher]

SSS, good suggestion. Another way to get someone else to pay for your flying is to join the Irish Air Force (not sure what they have in the way of aircraft though).

Also in your original post you mentioned the Aer Lingus Cadet training scheme. Why not try that or come to think of it any other Airline's Cadet Training Scheme. (I warn you though these slots are difficult to obtain because of the fierce competition as there are only ever a very limited number of places on courses).

Basically what I am try to tell you is in order to save a shed load of cash, try and go the way of someone else (Airforce or Airline) paying for your flying. If like me and many others in this industry you end up paying your own way, you will be in debt for years.

As for flying schools, if you do an ab initio course in Europe (0 to 250 hours and frozen ATPL), you will feel the pinch as flying is way over-priced (IMHO). Why not try flying in Florida at one of those schools where you can get an FAA and a JAA Licence. (There's one of them on an advertising banner on this Web Site, I think its in Naples). The flying is cheaper and something else to think about, the weather is better.

If you are forced to go the Self Paying route then I would strongly suggest before you start paying out money for flying that you go and get a Class 1 JAA medical at the Mater Hospital in Dublin or somewhere else like CAA House at Gatwick. Because if you don't meet the requirements, you may have to consider either just going the FAA (United States) way (and that too depends if you qualify for a Class 1 as well). The FAA standards are not as strict as the JAA's. If however you don't pass either Medicals then you may have to do the unthinkable and give up the whole idea of flying.

[Scudsy]

You've got youth on your side so there is no huge rush. Don't go to a flying school on the other side of the world and hand over a pile of cash for some instant commercial licence which is really no use to you. 10 lessons later and they will go bust and run off with your cash and you'll have no recourse. This used to happen alot when I was training but luckily I took the advice of someone who had been through all the mistakes and I just took my time. Paid for it one lesson at a time and worked a "normal job" in the mean time.

You've got a European passport. Go to Ireland or the Uk or Spain and get a JAA licence, easily the most transferable licence to hold. If you get an FAA (USA) licence first as I did then there is only so much of it that transfers to the JAA. More cost and duplication involved. Ryanair may be considered 0 by you but is without question one of the best places to learn to truely fly a jet. It has difficult working conditions and very long working days but the pay is good. Few airlines ask you to fly 2 cat 2/3 approaches and 2 circle to land approaches at airports right next to mountains and procedural ATC, short wet sometimes contaminated runways IN ONE DAY. Thats right, huge exposure to true experience. Often flying to minima in crap weather large crosswinds and so on. Non precision approaches, lots of go arounds and diversions. Since I've moved on to the big flashy world of long haul where you hardly ever see those conditions once in a year let alone all in one week people often say to me "well at least you Irish boys known how to fly". So it's not really a zero, it's actually very difficult to make the grade there.

Don't try to rush it. Remember every thing will cost double the advertised price in reality and take 50 % longer

Good luck

It's a tough road and it's not the career it used to be

Scudsy

[Desert Diner]

If you have an Irish Passport, then all you are is a guest in the UAE, actualy your father is. So you might as well forget about all those nice cadet programmes as they are meant for nationals.

You my friend will have to do it just like everyone else here, on your own dime. And I wouldn't be badmouthing EI or FR for that matter as once you spent all your money to get your licence, these will be the first venues that an Irishman like yourself will look to to get that all important first job.

Cheers and welcome to the real world.

[Aer_Lingus]

okay, thanks alot guys i appreciate it.
Well i dont think the USAF is an option for me, i guess i would have to try to get into a cadet programme or just go to one of the European Flying schools and try to get a job after that. If anyone has any good links please let me have them that would help alot.

Aer Arann says on its site that they are looking for captains and possible future vacancies for First Officers.
If i get my licences at a flying school in Europe what are my chances of getting a job for Aer Arann, and if anyone has any more ideas please let me know.

As for the medical, anyone have any info if i can do it in Dubai ?

Alex

[Captain Bug Smasher]

Can't do an initial JAA Class 1 in Dubai but you can do a renewal. You'll have to get the initial at the Mater Hospital in Dublin or CAA House at Gatwick in the UK. However the good news is you can get an initial FAA Class 1 in Dubai. Dr Akel's Clinic is the place to go. Located above Magrudy's on the beach road. Phone 04 3494880.

As for Schools in the UK or Ireland for that matter, do a search in some of the other Forums. As I suggested earlier there is a possibility of getting a JAA licence through a school in the States which in the long run will cut costs.

As for getting in to Aer Arann with just a frozen ATPL, no idea but a lot of companies want people to have experience (just look at EK, they want you to have 2000 hours jet let alone the 4000 hours total) and getting that can be interesting. I went the Flight Instruction Route and then flew Cargo at night. Others go the charter route in piston singles and twins out of places in Africa. There are many Avenues, its up to you to choose.

[Aer_Lingus]

cargo at night sounds interesting..

So what exactly can you do with a Frozen ATPL ?

[scanscanscan]

Indeed...Single pilot IFR cargo at night in Africa can be interesting....that is why you should avoid it and do the USAF option.
I believe the USAF has more aircraft needing citizens to fly them than the Irish and Europen military combined.
I hated letters ending with..."We would like to wish you well in your future aviation career." it generally ment the job I wanted had gone to an ex military pilot on a pension with better training and experiance and my career was remaining in the toilet.

[Aer_Lingus]

Okay, so could you please give me some details about USAF, would i have to go to war, how much would it cost ? How many Years? what exatly to do when i finnish school, and can i really be a European or Gulf Airline Pilot after it ?

Alex

[Scudsy]

If you are not a miltary type then the ASAF will spot you a mile off and you won't get far. Worth a try but don't think thta the only way forward. You are only 18 so don't be in a huge rush. You will probably have to instruct and that can be fun. You simply won't get far on a frozen ATPL or commercial. It's a fact of life.

[Aer_Lingus]

Seems imposible to be an airline pilot :confused:
I know i shouldnt be in a rush but what els can i do after i finnish school, i mean at this stage i will fly anything for anyone ..

Lets say i go to the aviation collage in Norway, what can i do after that.. is it a complete waste of time?

Alex

[Desert Diner]

^^^ Which school? Trollheim? :bored:

[Scudsy]

No No NO! It's not impossible, but it is difficult. That's why the world is facing a potential shortage of EXPERIENCED pilots. Being a pilot is like being Doctor (OK Doctors are smarter) it's about aquired experience applied to knowledge and true understanding of various disciplines, such as aerodynamics, performance, and even stuff such as aeromedical. You can tick the "regulatory boxes" at a flying school - all in one go if you have the large ammount of money required. But that is not the only thing a cheif pilot is looking for. You then need to get exposure and application. MOST guys you meet nowadays are "self improvers". It's called that for a reason. It takes time and dedication. According to the 7 days paper this morning China thinks it takes 10 years to develop an Airline Pilot. Just because you hold a FROZEN ATPL doesn't make you an airline pilot but it is the start. That's why pilot's pay is better than the accountants can fathom. They, like you at the moment, don't inderstand the journey involved. They think we grow on trees. This is the attitude of Emirates at the moment and the real reason why flights are being cancelled.
Slow down, understand it's a journey. Going to these schools is NOT like a sausage factory. You Don't go in one end a "newbie" and come out the other end able to fly cessna 150's & jumbo's.
Get your PPL and then get a job doing something else that pays enough to do the right sort of hour building (a bit of night and plenty of cross country, one really big one) then save up enough to go to school and do the exams then save up and do the flight test for commercial, etc, etc. If you flash out all the cash in one go you will be looking for a job and the only places to go with no experience will be Africa and you'll run guns for no money. none. If you're lucky to get that. Take your time and enjoy a life outside of aviation AS WELL. Why the quick fix mentality?
It takes time, accept that and then you'll enjoy it.

[dxbpilot]

Aer_Lingus,

I was in the same sitiuation as you not too long ago, being jealous of my half local mates getting cadetships with Emirates etc.

I'm currently in Aus now doing my CPL ME IR, and i have seen plenty of guys who have been instructing for a year or so go on to bigger and better things. The aviation industry in India/Asia is booming and Aus is benefiting greatly as a great number come here to do their training. Alot of pilots get hired as instructors straight out of their CPL instructor course. (not too sure about visa requirements for you though!)

Plus their are a few cargo operators in the UAE eg.Falcon whose hour requirements arn't huge !

If you want it bad enough you can get it ;P

[Captain Bug Smasher]

Hey A_L,

If you want to find out more about Flying Schools etc, do a search of the Wannabes Forum, you'll find lots of useful info there (in particular about schools in Europe).

Scudsy's right too, you have time on your side, so get yourself a plan and roll with it and don't be in a hurry.

Good Luck

[Aer_Lingus]

Okay, Scudsy you have been a huge help, thank you.
I understand what you are saying and you are right. Beging an instructor sounds good. Could you tell me what you thinkg about this ? http://www.easyjet.com/EN/Jobs/Pilot/pilotrecruitment_cadetsponsorshipscheme.html
Any idea if i will be accepted or is it worth a try ?


DesertM2005 : The school is " Norwegian Aviation School "
http://www.norwegianaviationcollege.no/ny2/program/ab_initio.asp

Dxbpilot: Thanks for the info, instructing really sounds good to me, i think im going to go for it..

Alex