Age 60+ Foreign pilots

[PIA747]

Can over 60 pilots with EU airlines or with Air India for instance fly into the US?

[flyboyike]

Yes. Doesn't happen much, though, especially since many countries have 55 for age limit.

[thegypsy]

flyboyike What a load of tosh. Name me one country that has a 55 age limit. Some Airlines but very few have a 55 age limit such a BA but all that will change soon as it is discrimination.

[flyboyike]

flyboyike What a load of tosh. Name me one country that has a 55 age limit. Some Airlines but very few have a 55 age limit such a BA but all that will change soon as it is discrimination.


Actually BA is exactly who I meant.

[GreenOnGo]

I thought Air France did too.

[wolferj]

Cathay Pacific is also 55.

[Panama Jack]

In accordance with Article 40 of the ICAO Convention and Section 2.1.10.1 of Annex 1, no pilot age 60 or over shall act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international air transport operations for renumeration or hire except with the permission of the state whose territory is entered.

[330 Man]

flyboyike
The countries do not have a 55 limit, the companies do. I cannot think of one country that has an age 55 limit. BA is 55 but just anounced they are going to 60. The UK is 60. Cathay is 55 in the pax division but I think you can go to freight and fly for another 5 years. India has just gone to 65 and I think Japan is 65 as well. I do not know about France. The US is working on going to 65 when ICAO changes to 65 in November. A resolutin was passed in the Senate Commerce Commitee to change 30 days after ICAO. I think the vote was 62-2 but I am not sure. This is the first step and must still go to the full senate and congress.

Regards,

330 Man

[NZ X man]

Japan, I do not think they have gone passed 60, and they will be one of the last countries to change, if they ever change.

[CorpoRat]

I thought the UK was 65 providing no other flight crew member had attained the age of 60, please correct me if I am wrong.

[CorpoRat]

Check your pm's

[jumbocpt]

Can over 60 pilots with EU airlines or with Air India for instance fly into the US?

I asked the FAA a few days ago the same question. The reply came from the FAA inspector in Dubai.
"as far as the age rule in the US, it is still 60 the cut off date"

quoted from FAA reply

[330 heavy]

What's an FAA inspector doing in Dubai?

330:confused:

[330 Man]

330 heavy said: "What's an FAA inspector doing in Dubai?"
He is probably looking for us!
The age rule in the US is still 60 to fly part 121 aircraft for hire. I do not think that this rule has anything to do with a pilot from another country flying a foreign aircraft in US airspace if he/she is over 60. It only has to do with a FAA licensed pilot flying for hire for a US airline.
The action in the senate committee is only the first of many steps required to change the age 60 rule in the US. I do not know if it will ever change but if it does it will take at least a year for the change to take place.
Regards,
330 Man

[typhoonpilot]

Ohh, I hope it changes. That way I could stay here for another 24 years :ugh:

TP

[330 heavy]

Typhoon,
24 years? You'll be slinking out of town in disgrace after I put that :mad: "whuppin" on you on the 11th. :p :eek: Get ready big boy.
330:ok:

[ironbutt57]

they cannot operate into any country w age 60 limit....Australia has or had no age 60 limit, India is 61 going to 65, look for the USA to not change anytime soon...

[typhoonpilot]

Typhoon,
24 years? You'll be slinking out of town in disgrace after I put that :mad: "whuppin" on you on the 11th. :p :eek: Get ready big boy.
330:ok:

:hmm:

The game is on!!

You'll be looking like this :ouch:

TP

[Panama Jack]

In accordance with Article 40 of the ICAO Convention and Section 2.1.10.1 of Annex 1, no pilot age 60 or over shall act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international air transport operations for renumeration or hire except with the permission of the state whose territory is entered.

This is what I wrote a few days ago. Note that territory entered also applies to overflight (on the way from US airspace to Europe or Asia, invariably you would need permission from the Canadians as well as a smattering of other countries).

This is off the ICAO website:


Age limit for flight crew
Amendment 167 to Annex 1
The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:

2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.

2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday.
Practical effects
Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (signed in Chicago, it is often quoted as the ‘Chicago Convention’) limits the international recognition of flight crew licences to those who are in full compliance with the Standards of Annex 1 (note that paragraph 2.1.10.1 is a Standard). As a result, until 23 November 2006, even if an individual State authorizes a pilot-in-command (PIC) to fly in commercial air transport operations when over the age of 60 (65 from 23 November) that authorization can only be given for flights within that State’s national airspace. This is because no State can force another State to accept its own deviation from an ICAO Standard. Article 33 does not apply to the co-pilot as paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard.

Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated.

In practice, this means that if a pilot in command is under the age specified in paragraph 2.1.10.1 (60 years at present and 65 from November 2006) he cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating into any ICAO Contracting State. Further, once he has reached the specified age, he may still operate as PIC, subject to certain conditions:

his/her national Licensing Authority permits it; and,
operations are undertaken only in national airspace; unless,
another State has given specific authorization that such flights are permitted in its airspace.
A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.

For co-pilots, since paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard, the upper age limit is set by the national Licensing Authority which can choose to impose any national age limit on the licenses it issues, as there are no international restrictions based on age for co-pilots.

When over 60, a six-monthly medical examination will be necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations). For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years.

Most of the States that have authorized their pilots to fly as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations after they reach the age specified in 2.1.10.1 also authorize pilots holding a license issued or validated by another States to fly in their own airspace under the same condition. However, ICAO does not collect information on States authorizing pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 60 and cannot provide information on the subject. Pilots seeking such information are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities.

[330 Man]

OK! So 330 heavy, who has bragging rights. I am not hearing any screaming from my villa about how the :mad: "whuppin" Went. Perhaps silence speaks loudly.
Enjoy!
330 Man

[330 heavy]

There was a lot of whuppin going on:} :} and yours truly ended up paying for the pints:ouch:

330:ok:

[dbmidway]

We still havent established wether the new ICAO ruling will allow foreign carrier PIC's over 60 to operate into the US have we?:) .

[neil armstrong]

If you read ICAO amendment 167 to annex 1 , specificly this part
A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.

Knowing that the US is an ICAO country this would imply that ,yes foreign carriers who's pilots are over 60 can fly to the US!
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#30
Neil