Dual Flagging of Aircraft on 2 National registers?

[egld0624]

Hi All,

Hope you can help... Is it possible to dual register an a/c on 2 different national registers/flags? I could be completely wrong but I have seen commercial a/c's around the globe with their main ICAO registration ident with a smaller different register ICAO ident underneath towards the rear side doors of the fuselage. The UK CAA says no not possible. Are there possibly non-EU countries that allow this?? [Sorry I can't be more specific with an actual example - otherwise I would have contacted that CAA organisation myself].

Kind regards,

EG:ok:

[thegoaf]

This practice is not possible under ICAO treaties because onlyone state at a time can accept safety responsibilities. However there was an exception made for Concorde when it was jointly opersted by BA and Braniff. The aircraft had dual registrations. The CAA had overall responsibility but when the aircraft was operating within the uS on the IAD/DFW sectors it was under American jurisdiction.

[PaperTiger]

An example would have helped to come to an explanation. It's not legal, as stated, about the only thing I can think of is a temporary 'ferry' registration where the painter has been lazy and not obliterated the old registration as required.

[jabberwok]

What seems to have become more widespread is the allocation of registrations outside the country of operation. We've seen many US registered aircraft based in other countries for a long time but the practise is now spreading.

Examples are Alitalia and Aeroflot aircraft on the Irish register and some Russian operators using Caribbean registered aircraft. I'm sure there are quite a few other examples.

[HZ123]

I have been under the impression that there are several reasons for this practise. Limiting tax liability in some countrys, thus changing reg frequently and also I believe some lessors insist on the country of registration so that service shedules are complied to and once again several countrys have virtually few rules and regs to comply with, thus costs are low. On another issue several aircraft that find there way to Southend for parting out are badged up with 3C-, what is the purpose of this action, when it is known the a/c are to be scrapped?

[QWERTY9]

Examples are Alitalia and Aeroflot aircraft on the Irish register and some Russian operators using Caribbean registered aircraft. I'm sure there are quite a few other examples.

The Irish regs relate to the owners/lessors of the aircraft being registered as Irish companies. The Caribbean are mainly for tax reasons.

[MAN777]

Sharjah is a good place to see this going on, I have seen IL 18s, 707s and numerous other types displaying more than one registration, whether this is deliberate or just the sticky tape falling off in the UAE sun, I dont know, either way it makes spotting there a bit interesting.

[WHBM]

The only legitimate case I know allowed is historical aircraft, which can have their old traditional reg (but no longer valid) displayed as long as they have the current one discreetly somewhere down the back. There's an FAA regulation about this.

Regs outside the country of operation are a different matter, there seem a range of different styles round the world. Apart from those mentioned, it seems to be a common practice for a proportion of Taiwanese fleets to be on the US register, and Singapore Airlines used to do the same thing with 747s. Italian carriers seem to have plenty of them. And in addition to tax reasons there are also legal implications, where overseas owners wold not be able to repossess aircraft (say for lack of payment) in their based country if they were registered there.

Aeroflot (and other Russian airlines) put western aircraft onto overseas registers as there is a high import duty in Russia on non-CIS airliners, which is thus avoided. The Pulkovo Airlines 737s, secondhand from Aer Lingus, have just retained their Irish registrations.

I am not certain what the requirements are for crew licencing where the airline has foreign reg aircraft. Do crews of all the Irish-registered leased aircraft need anything from the Irish authorities, particularly where such aircraft are only one or two units in a larger fleet ? I'm guessing the reason why certain countries such as Ireland or Bermuda are popular for this is because their licencing authorities do not have such requiements.

[Groundloop]

Actually the BA and AF Concordes which were also operated by Braniff did NOT have dual registrations. The only ever carried one registration at a time.

For example, BA re-registed the fleet so that G-BOAD became G-N94AD, a rather unique style of reg for the UK CAA! The aircraft would operate a BA flight from LHR to IAD. It would then be signed OFF the UK register, someone would go up a ladder and cover over the G- to leave N94AD and the aircraft would be signed ON the US register. A Braniff crew would then fly the aircaft to Dallas and back then sign the aircraft OFF the US register, back up thye ladder to uncover the G- and sign ON to the UK register for the BA flight back to LHR.

When the Braniff interchange finished the aircraft were reregistered back to the old reggies ie G-N94AD reverted to G-BOAD.

[barit1]

The Irish regs relate to the owners/lessors of the aircraft being registered as Irish companies...

I had the pleasure (1997) of paxing in a new Aeroflot 767 ORD-SVO. Six days a week it flew direct, but on Wednesdays it stopped at Shannon. I can only surmise that since it was EI- registered, it was a way for the leasing company to do administrative or light maintenance checks.

[Boss Raptor]

The primary reason on normal circumstance;

with certain countries Lessors are concerned about 'perfection of title' issues - in simple terms the Lessor doesnt think they will get too much co-operation from the locals (and their legal system) if the have to repossesses the aircraft and/or the aircraft gets tangled up in an airline failure and/or other legal action, Good examples are Russia and Italy where you will also see a fair few foreign registered aircraft with local carriers - there is a supplementary ICAO Agreement on Perfection of Title In Aircraft signed by most (all) member states however what they agree to do and what happens in reality can differ hence the added security for the Lessor as above - you may well have your aircraft parked outside but if you cannot get it de-registered you have big problems

the second reason is tax avoidance either import or asset/wealth based - the actual registration of an aircraft does not necessarily confirm/concur with actual ultimate ownership

for safety oversight the aircraft is then handed over by the country of registry to the supervision of the country of operation under an ICAO '83 bis' agreement

covering the point as to why aircraft are re-registered for ferry for perhaps ultimate scrapping - because countries such as 3C and/or 9L and others may well be a lot more 'flexible' in their requirement to make the aircraft ready for ferry than the original country of registration

[egld0624]

Many thanks to you all for your kind and helpful input. In the course of reading your posts it jogged my memory as to where I last saw these aircraft with the dual ICAO registrations (one type face much larger than the other) towards the rear of their respective fuselages... Dubai and I believe the a/c’s belonged to Emirates. I’ll be back there towards the end of the year and will take my camera with me. (Not that I’m a spotter).

It was also interesting to read your comments to compare to the similarities with flagging of commercial ships.

All the very best.

EG:ok:

[PaperTiger]

Look carefully at this shot (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0721117&size=L) of an Airbus on delivery to Emirates. One registration under the wing, a different one on the fuselage.