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acbus1
9th Mar 2006, 17:27
Don't know if I attract them, but it seems impossible to pass a group of youths in the street these days without some sarchastic/smart/cocky comment from at least one of them.

Reason I post this is I've just been to the shops and passed one such group. Sure enough, wisecracks commenced.

I usually ignore them; they aren't worth the rise in blood pressure. But on this occasion one of them made the mistake of deciding to follow me with his mouth still engaged. The look of horror on his face when I turned and grabbed a chestful of jacket, followed rapidly by his plea "It wasn't me!" did nothing to calm my fury.

Amusing to note that the stunned silence only broke into further shouts of abuse when I'd walked sufficiently further for him/them to feel safe.


Question, mainly.....is it just me who attracts this peurile behaviour?

strafer
9th Mar 2006, 17:41
Definitely not worth it - you're the adult after all.

I had a similar thing around a year ago. A 'Give us a fag, mate", was followed by a "There's a shop there. Go and buy some", followed by an "Are you :mad:in dissin me!", followed by a "Am I what? Speak English you :mad:in prannet"....

Anyhoo, the upshot was that he said he'd got a knife, I put him on the floor, his mates went running off to find a copper and I exited stage left. Had I hung around, I can guess who would have been seen as the villian of the piece. In reterospect I should have just walked away.

Ozzy
9th Mar 2006, 17:47
Charles Bronson had a problem with similar yobs around thirty years ago. However, he was able to get his own back on them quite successfully (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/). :E:E

Ozzy

Lon More
9th Mar 2006, 17:49
In reterospect I should have just walked away.

Unfortunately the low-lifes would probably see this as a sign of weakness and just up the ante a bit.

"don't let the smile fool you. I like violence" followed by a Glasgow kiss normally ends the discussion.

ultimatepro63
9th Mar 2006, 18:32
ahh thee old yobbos, they think they are "hard" give them a bit of stick you shouldnt be scared because if anyone one of them did throw a punch you know who would be stronger:}

Blacksheep
10th Mar 2006, 03:10
Never had the problem. On the other hand, schoolteachers, policemen and drill sergeants were a definite problem until I reached an age where they didn't matter any more. (though I still feel uncomfortable in a headmaster's office!)

Its an interesting question and I think it might involve unconscious body language. Perhaps growing up in a certain kind of neighbourhood marks you for life?

acbus1
10th Mar 2006, 06:21
Blacksheep. Don't quite understand your drift, though there's hints of interesting points in there.

eal401
10th Mar 2006, 07:18
I turned and grabbed a chestful of jacket
Very risky move.....

Oops, not allowed to suggest such things to turn bad for the victim are we? :rolleyes:

acbus1
10th Mar 2006, 07:29
Another intriguing reply I don't understand.

Must be having a bad brain day.

colmac747
10th Mar 2006, 07:44
Was only a few weeks ago i got myself "involved" with yob culture.
Group of about 10 (all roughly 13-15 y/o), throwing stones at each other, getting closer and closer to my parked car(in a supermarket, btw). One of the little :mad: threw a stone and whizzed just by - that was enough.
I got out the car, and with a very rough Scots accent:ok: "Which one of you C**ts hit my car with a f*ckin stone?" Not one reply. I repeated the phrase (louder). Nothing.

I got back in the car (feeling pleased with myself), drove off soon afterwards and as i checked the rear mirror, one of the little bastards is standing there brazenly giving me the [email protected] sign:p :{

*you cant win - the law protects these scumbags

Solid Rust Twotter
10th Mar 2006, 08:15
Maim the ringleader. The rest usually head out at speed when that happens...

edusaeanna
10th Mar 2006, 09:29
I made the mistake of replying to the scumbags too in a moment of brain weakness...I was standing minding my own business when I had, 'what the f*ck you looking at?' shouted at me...so I simply said, 'I don't know but it's looking right back at me,'....it seemed a good idea at the time. My hometown seems to have filled with them to an even greater degree over the past few months, it's now a no go zone in the evening...wa:mad:kers :mad: :mad: :mad:

lplsprog
10th Mar 2006, 09:48
My mate made the error of standing up to these yobs when 2 tried to trip him up going down the escalator in London. Little did they know he was ex-SAS, he put one in hospital and damaged the other. He was fined £1000 for his trouble as the authorities took a dim view of him standing up for himself!:E

Wyler
10th Mar 2006, 10:18
Never had the problem as God blessed me by making me look like a thug. Tis true. I normally have to start conversatios with little old ladies to stop them looking so terrified! Yobs tend to go quiet when I walk by and, when going through basic training, we used to go out into London once a month. The others would only stay for the last train if I did cos, at 21, I could clear a carriage just by looking at people.
Finally, my secret weapon is to get my daughters to spread the rumour that I am a total nutter, to the Chav's in the village. Works a treat.
It's a lonely life being a butt ugly super hero.:}

Gouabafla
10th Mar 2006, 10:23
To be honest, this stuff scares me. Yes, I can handle myself now and I'm still ugly enough, strong enough and fast enough not to be worried by teenagers. But what happens in ten years when these thugs are in their twenties and I'm approaching sixty? (I'll still be ugly).

treadigraph
10th Mar 2006, 10:40
Had run ins with the little [email protected]@rds several times - I now keep quiet if there's t'rouble on t'bus home when I've had a few beers in Croydon, after intervening in the past nearly to my cost.

Few weeks ago a gang of spotty early-teenagers crossed the road towards me - I though "Uh oh" then heard one say, "He's bigger than us" (I'm all of 5' 9" but stocky!) and they sheered off back to the other side. I never said a word. Suspect the intention was to give me a "happy slap".

Wyler
10th Mar 2006, 10:41
Know what you mean and it will be 20 times worse by then as well. I think the best defence is to make yourself invisible to them. Stay away from where they gather, at the times they gather and do not react. They are, after all, looking for a cheap thrill so will go for the individuals who 'bite'.

The other way is to observe them over a period of time, pick your moment, make your move and 'cull' one of the leaders with a blow to the head. Sort of like when you kill a crow and hang it on the fence as a warning to others...... :E (Ooops, there I go again).

tall and tasty
10th Mar 2006, 10:43
Question, mainly.....is it just me who attracts this peurile behaviour?

To be honest there are numerous reasons and one of the main ones is the lack in Blighty of anything for 14-16 year olds to do especially in the inner cities where they can't go to the play grounds (too big) , don’t have activity centers or they do and cost an arm and a leg to fund and get the teenagers in or the inner city or rural villages can't support them

They then tend to group in gangs. We get it in our local playground. Big girls and my daughter calls them causing havoc on the playground equipment, smoking teasing the younger children and ganging up on parents that challenge it. It is a sign of our times, they know that GBH can be reported at the drop of a hat, they have 10 friends as witnesses and whose going to challenge it.

School teachers are not allowed to punish, as we were at school, ruler on the back of the hand, detention, the cane, cleaning the school desks and the parents don't know/have the discipline in place at an early age to set the boundaries for these kids (that is what they are). So with the addition of teenage rushes, all of us remember those and the "we are going to rebel with society", they turn to making fun of what they see as the "boring adult "who can't touch me because.

The reaction you did was a little dangerous he may have had a knife, anything, but loud firm talking to them will put them off their guard.

Councils need to address this problem and find, supply groups or activities for these gangs to get involved in and channel their boredom into something more constructive. But we as the adult population maybe should push more suggestions through to the local councils and see what happens

TnT

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 10:45
But what happens in ten years when these thugs are in their twenties and I'm approaching sixtyA walking stick cum rapier a la John Steed in The Avengers should do the trick!

PileUp Officer
10th Mar 2006, 11:01
Carry out some 'City of God' punishment. Catch them then ask if they want to be shot in the foot or hand. Then shoot them in the opposite of what they say.


This used to happen a lot when I was younger on the walk to a local shop on a rough estate near me.

If you ignore it you feel like a $%@*! but if you answer then you invite trouble. :confused: :oh:

Wyler
10th Mar 2006, 11:06
Agree to a certain extent. We were all teenagers once and, lets face it, it's FUN to wind people up. It's also very important to be in a group, nobody wants to be Billy No Mates. I got in to my fair share of trouble but I was given boundaries. They don't seem to be there anymore for the hard core, who are still the minority. We have taught our kids their rights, but gone easy on teaching them their responsibilities. You can provide more facilities, and we shold but the really bad kids will not be bothered or motivated. In fact, they will see it as another target.
We need to go to the root cause. Promote and reward the family. Do not make underage motherhood a career opportunity. We see our police and justice system being restructured to concentrate on serious crime. Wrong. We should be putting resources in to zero tolerance from year dot. Crack down on anti social behaviour, put the bobbies on the beat. Give them the powers they need and take away the admin burden. Bring discipline back to the classroom and, most importantly, reward kids who do well.
As an analogy, you train a puppy from day one what it can and cannot do. You put the time and effort in during the early days and, hey presto, you have a well behaved and sociable dog (with a few exceptions!). You leave it to do its own thing for a few years and you have a destroyed house, behavioural problems and packs of dogs terrorising the neighbourhood. Then try to crack down on it, you lose, because they have a well ingrained way of behaving and, to them, it's perfectly normal. OK, simplified I know but I belive the concept is true.
The problem we have now will take many many years to erradicate. And that will only start to happen when we decide enough is enough and we vote for/demand the action.

PileUp Officer
10th Mar 2006, 11:50
Thatcher f**ked the kids
By Frank Turner.

Whatever happened to childhood? We’re all scared of the kids in our neighbourhood, they’re not small and charming and harmless they’re a violent bunch of b*st**d little s**ts
And anyone who looks younger than me makes me check for my wallet and my phone and my keys
I’m tired of being tired out always on the look out for thieving gits

We’re all wondering how we ended up so scared
We spent ten long years teaching our kids not to care
And that there’s no such thing as society anyway
And all the rich folks act surprised when all sense of community dies and you just close your eyes to the other side of all the things that she did
Thatcher f**ked the kids

And it seems a little bit rich to me that the rich folks only ever talk of charity in times like the seventies, the broken down economy meant even the upper tier were needing some help
As soon as things looked brighter the grin gets wider and the grip gets tighter
And for every teenage tracksuit mugger there’s a guy in a suit who wont lift a finger for anybody else

We’re all wondering how we ended up so scared
We spent ten long years teaching our kids not to care
And that there’s no such thing as society anyway
And all the rich folks act surprised when all sense of community dies and you just close your eyes to the other side of all the things that she did
Thatcher f**ked the kids

We got a generation raised on the welfare state enjoyed all it’s benefits and did just great but as soon as they were settled as the richest of the rich
They kicked away the ladder and told the rest of us that life’s a b*tch

And it’s no surprise that all the f**k-ups didn’t show up until the kids had grown up
But when no one ever smiles or ever helps a stranger is it any f**king wonder our society’s in danger of collapse

So all the kids are b*st**ds but don’t blame them yeah they learn by example
Blame the folks who sold the future for the highest bid
That’s right
Thatcher f**ked the kids

VFE
10th Mar 2006, 12:29
Question, mainly.....is it just me who attracts this peurile behaviour?

Yes.

When the Orwellian vision soon comes to fruition mankind shall look back on these occasions and lament the loss of the good old fashioned British yobbo.

Mark my words.

VFE.

VFE
10th Mar 2006, 12:38
Was only a few weeks ago i got myself "involved" with yob culture.
Group of about 10 (all roughly 13-15 y/o), throwing stones at each other, getting closer and closer to my parked car(in a supermarket, btw). One of the little :mad: threw a stone and whizzed just by - that was enough.
I got out the car, and with a very rough Scots accent:ok: "Which one of you C**ts hit my car with a f*ckin stone?" Not one reply. I repeated the phrase (louder). Nothing.
I got back in the car (feeling pleased with myself), drove off soon afterwards and as i checked the rear mirror, one of the little bastards is standing there brazenly giving me the [email protected] sign:p :{
*you cant win - the law protects these scumbags

He probably did the w****r sign because none of the stones actually hit your car did they? Not rocket science really.

VFE.

phnuff
10th Mar 2006, 13:20
Sadly, society gets what society deserves

When I was a kid growing up in leafy Hitchin, there were 3 youth clubs open at least 5 nights per week (Ok, I didn;t use them, but they were there). There were at least 2 in Letchworth that I knew of one of which (the Leys had bands like fledgling Hawkwind/Genesis playing). Ok, they were nothing special, but they were someone for kids to go where they were supervised and were generally exposed to positive messages. Now, all of the clubs in Hitchin are closed and the land sold off by the council. The one that has bands in Letchworth has also gone. Add to this the fact that too many parents seem to abdicate their child care responsibilities in favour of watching Eastenders and Footballers Wives and you get feral kids left to their own devices: feral kids protected by the law. Example - a couple of years ago, a couple of blokes where I now live were sitting in a pub when they noticed about 6 youths scratching one of them's BMW. They went outside and tried to detain the kids with a view to getting the damage rectified. One of them was caught and plod duly arrives - guess who was prosecuted -yep, the car owner. What really worries me is the message that this sends the kids - basically 'Do what you want, we will protect you from anyone who objects'

Astrodome
10th Mar 2006, 14:06
Thatcher f**ked the kids
By Frank Turner.
Another vacuous commentary by someone with little or no perception of reality.

One thinks he would be better lamenting the massive increase in crime in the nine years since his (obvious) Labour party took power.

During the same time his beloved Party have done their utmost to hamstring the Police in dealing with real crime, whilst concentrating their attention on Prosecuting those who are a soft target, and who are in a position to pay lots of money into Labour's coffers.

He also fails to see or appreciate that we are now in the current social scenario precisely because Margaret Thatcher did NOT implement a proper Conservative policy, but allowed the Socialist and Liberal thinkers to dominate local authorities where they set about Communising education.

The end result is what we now have, youths without discipline or respect for authority.

MrFire
10th Mar 2006, 14:45
Good tactic is to adopt a very 'ard Scots/Glaswegian accent anywhere down south of UK. Scares the shit out of us :ok::ok:

acbus1
10th Mar 2006, 15:27
Originally Posted by acbus1

Question, mainly.....is it just me who attracts this peurile behaviour?


Reply from VFE

Yes.
:confused:

I'm having a tough day understanding replies. This is number three. :(

PLATO_Y2K
10th Mar 2006, 16:19
Agree with tall and tasty, I grew up in South Africa, corporal punishment is still in use as far as I am aware. When I was at school, the deterant for doing bad things was the Cane, believe me it works! I am not saying re-introduce it, but there needs to be some form of effective deterant to "yobbish" behaviour.

Am 20 now, and get kids constantly hasseling me ect. esspecially if by myself. Seem to remember when I was that sort of age, I would very rarely speak to, let alone try to start a fight with someone older.

In the village where I grew up in England, there was a definite culture of kids who would hang around the shops, smoking, causing trouble. Like has been said before, when they do something and are challenged, the challenger is prosecuted, where is the sense in that? If the situation warrented some physical action on my part I would not hesitate to use it if provoked However knowing that in mearly defending myself or others could lead to ME being the one to be prosecuted leaves me with a pause for thought about a system that would allow this.

My two cents! :p

plato_y2k

Say again s l o w l y
10th Mar 2006, 17:10
Chavs or Neds (depending on which side of the border you are on.) are fairly easy to deal with. I find it best to stare them down and question their sexuality. It works every time!! They don't know what to say.

I thought of it once when sitting on a train going into London when a bunch of scrotes sat opposite me and proceeded to make comments and stare at me.

So I calmly asked if the ring leader was looking because he fancied me. When he stammered a "no" I told him to f**k off in no uncertain terms. Off they went with the whole gang laughing their heads off at this one idiot.

I still find it amusing to this day.

Mind you, after having been brought up in central London the ned's around here are pretty second rate compared to the scum bags I used to end up getting bashed by when I was a kid. It only seems to consist of a few spotty oiks asking if you'll buy them booze. "Ah go on mister.."

yintsinmerite
10th Mar 2006, 17:38
"Thatcher f**ked the kids"

No, she wasn't that selective. She f**ked everyone.

I agree with phnuff, we send the wrong messages with daft prosecutions and add this to the break up of family values, and you have a recipe for disaster. Not that I actually blame the current generation of parents - its those before who started the rot. Today's parents just imitate what they saw from their own folks. I remember growing up on a slightly rough estate. During school holidays, we all knew which parents basically abandoned their kids for the day while they went out to work - the lucky kids were given money for chips, the unlucky just had to go without. As years went by, guess which group of kids had the biggest criminal records? These days and with more parents out working because they have to keep up their mortgage payments , is it any wonder that we have more 'ferals' ?

UL730
10th Mar 2006, 18:39
Noticed recently that UK government is prepared to pay yoofs £20 per week to be of good behaviour.

When I was young we were good for nothing :hmm:

Onan the Clumsy
10th Mar 2006, 18:42
Question, mainly.....is it just me who attracts this peurile behaviour?
yes...you tosser :}

eal401
10th Mar 2006, 18:45
Sorry, didn't intend to confuse!

Just suggesting that grabbing such a "yoof" in the manner you did could be risky if they decided to embelish the story to the police.

Hope this clarifies!

acbus1
10th Mar 2006, 18:46
yes...you tosser

See....clear, concise...I understood that. :ok:

It was f*****g you I encountered yesterday, wasn't it! :mad:

;)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, eal401. It did occur to me afterwards that there could be consequences.

Trouble is, when I lose it, I lose it big time. And I lost it big time yesterday. Consequences aren't in the equation when I lose it. My first post was partly an attempt to calm down......a couple of hours later.

Luckily it was only a grab of his jacket and was over as soon as he started on the "It wasn't me" plea. As I said, that did little to calm me down, but at least I let go of the $h!t and walked on.

Anyway, he's got to complain and they've got to identify who I am and where I live first.

And I'll get his name and address if he does take it further. :E

Blacksheep
12th Mar 2006, 02:22
Blacksheep. Don't quite understand your drift, though there's hints of interesting points in there.We all have unconscious body language that is developed from infancy as part of our character and we react subconsciously to each others body language. I grew up in a tough area and my teachers - mostly middle class university graduates who were pretty scarce down our street - had a problem with me, seeing me as cocky and insolent. It was the same with policemen and, when I joined the military, the drill instructors. In other words, even though I've developed a global-village outlook and managed to achieve post-graduate qualifications, my body language still identifies where I came from and marks me out as a yobbo.

I'm postulating that perhaps the yobs bother you because they sense from your posture and the way you walk that you're "not one of us" - which is why they pick on you and not on me.

Onan the Clumsy
12th Mar 2006, 02:27
...or it could be the sword you always carry :}

acbus1
12th Mar 2006, 10:44
Thanks for the expansion, Blacksheep.

Good point.

The yob in question definitely got the body language signal once I lost my self control! :}

I'd otherwise agree that I'm an easy going (you can tell from some of my posts :E ), laid back sort who has an academic leaning. That may well be visually apparent to others.

Which begs the question.......should our society be promoting civilised behaviour towards others, or should it be favouring dominance of the ignorant yob element who base their behaviour towards others upon the way they dress, talk, walk, look etc?

Because, whatever your opinion, the fact is that the latter is now being actively promoted (or not being subdued) by the authorities. And we all know where that's going to lead. :(

WG774
12th Mar 2006, 14:03
The yoof around my area keep themselves to themselves… I don’t think this is due to the fact that they’re not into causing trouble, but more a case that they wouldn’t want to attract the gaze of Plod in case he discovers quantities of Jamaican tobacco in their pockets…

The strange thing about said yoofs is that they invariably have quite expensive cars, and they just seem to sit in their cars in groups puffing clouds of smoke out of the windows… It doesn’t make total sense to me; when I was their age, I had one thing and one thing only on my mind…and if you’ve got a decent motor, you’ve got a head-start haven’t you? It does strike me as a tad sad that they just sit parked on the street smoking dope.

I was no angel at their age, and misspent my youth in Soho clubs chasing females and imbibing alcohol, but at least I was out socialising and experiencing a touch of culture…that’s got to be more productive than sitting on street corners…

Maybe Blacksheep has a point re: body language. Perhaps the policy to implement is to act freaky so they think you’re a Norman Bates-type character - it works for me :E


When the Orwellian vision soon comes to fruition mankind shall look back on these occasions and lament the loss of the good old fashioned British yobbo.


Truly chilling… Sad, but profound :(

acbus1
12th Mar 2006, 14:12
Perhaps the policy to implement is to act freaky so they think you’re a Norman Bates-type character.....

He don't know me vewwy weww, do he? *twitch* :E

m0rt1L
12th Mar 2006, 14:32
haha this just reminds me of a time with my band, ok i used to be in a tourning band a few years ago when i was 22, we had just come out of a venue in sheffield about 200pm after a gig, we had a van where there was a crew cab in the back for the guyz to sleep so this occation they were all in the back and i was driving looking like i was the only one in the van.
Anyways we puuled up at a set of village traffic lights a set of Chavs were giving me some grief as i was stood waiting for green and banging on the windows of the passenger side all about 20 years old Chav'd up to the nines, anyways i said to the guitarist grab him, anyways the side loader door opened on the van and our guitarist grabbed this tosser and pulled him in the van and wrapped him in a black backdrop what we use on our stage, well we pull away with him in the van and his mates are running the opposite way not caring one bit about there friend,
Ok 1 junction up the M1 we decide to let him go after this hard guy chav lad is screaming and crying in the van, we dropped him off at J35 then he had a 2 hour walk home or a taxi, i bet this guy doesnt dream about causing trouble again, but however a very very very very very stupid thing we did as it could have backfired, but funny enough it didnt and 1 chav got his commupence, one of the most silly but funny things we did.
Just goes to show in the heat of the moment you could do anything to these tossers but i was young then and silly,should have filmed this guy screaming and crying to show his mates...:}

Blacksheep
14th Mar 2006, 09:41
but at least I was out socialising and experiencing a touch of culture…I used to do that too! There were some interesting educational establishments 'Up West' when Carnaby Street was 'cool' and girls had legs - but only at weekends. I wasn't able to misspend any of my youth around Soho until I had money in my pocket and I had to work during the week to get that.

Windy Militant
14th Mar 2006, 11:25
The strange thing about said yoofs is that they invariably have quite expensive cars, and they just seem to sit in their cars in groups puffing clouds of smoke out of the windows…

If what was said on the news the other morning is true it's because none of them have a driving licence. It seems that the number of 17 to 25 year olds applying for and taking the driving test has fallen dramatically in the last few years. The cost of insurance is cited as the main cause but also apparently the yoof of today can't be arsed with the hassle of car ownership.. :confused:

acbus1
14th Mar 2006, 12:37
More likely due to the fact that the yoof of today increasingly drive without a Driver's License.

....or insurance.

....or even a car which belongs to them.

nutcracker43
14th Mar 2006, 12:40
I had a most satisfactory outcome after encountering the yob culture about 37 years ago when still fit and virile. My car stalled on traffic crossing point... this was no problem to two young yobs who simply jumped onto the bonnet and walked accross...I was wild and my wife not too happy either. I parked the car as soon as I could and set off for these lads...I found them pestering two old dears for some money...fortunately for me there was a lane next to them just off the High Street, and, as I still saw red I grabbed their scruffs and hurled them to ground in the lane. The taller of the two went to his pocket (for a knife presumably) and I kicked him really hard in the nuts. He tried to get up but I heel stomped a hand which broke all four fingers. His mate was (fortunately dazed) still in the frame so I picked him up and shoved his face into the wall. They recognised me without a doubt and I made sure they knew that I knew where they lived as well, even when one of them moved. The whole thing took about fifteen seconds and the two old dears were beyond themselves with delight.

Interestingly the two yobs in question never bothered me again, ever...and they, and their mates, kept a wide berth whenever they happened to see me.

This is not something I would advocate to anyone but it did work for me!

NC43

Doors to Automatic
14th Mar 2006, 14:01
He probably did the w****r sign because none of the stones actually hit your car did they? Not rocket science really.
VFE.


It's precisely the stupid "trendy" thinking like this that has got this country into the mess it is now in.

The questions that should be asked are:

1. Why are they allowed to throw stones in a supermarket car park?
2. Why are they allowed to abuse members of the public without any fear of recourse?

These are the real issues.

Now, the actions of Nutcracker above should become the norm - this would quickly solve the problem - well done mate you are a credit to our society.

Blacksheep
16th Mar 2006, 01:35
Now, the actions of Nutcracker above should become the norm - this would quickly solve the problem - well done mate you are a credit to our society.I'm not sure I'd wish to live in a society ruled by the strongest and most violent. School was bad enough.

Onan the Clumsy
16th Mar 2006, 03:35
Under which 'strongest and most violent' wouldn't you like to live?

John James
16th Mar 2006, 04:09
I am 66 this year and have been attacked three times by local schitzoid dopers and drunks
they know how I feel about their activities round here and have tried to Bully me because I stand up to them
I have used two bear spray canisters against one guy - he has finally got the message and moved away but the RCMP act like I am the agrressor to this low life who has attacked me twice and his friend once [ he fell trying to drag me off my little tractor] and got dragged down the hill a ways before running off
ha ha- it was worth the bruises
the rcmp cops are useless round here- cost me 1500 bucks cdn for protecting myself on my property and the wimpy female prosecutor would not charge him
Layabouts use the system welfare and courts - they have all the time in the world to go whining to the social service tweeds
A crazy world ruled by liberal bleeding heart dead heads sucking cash for ziltch
I carry pepper spray now everywhere :)

Met an old timer in Florida who liked to go for walks- he had a plastic shopping bag with a 12 in bar in it:)
My uncle, was in both wars, knocked out a young drunk tough who attacked him a number of years ago - the whole town was agast ha ha
Nicest young people I met have been in Israel-they know who the enemie is! No hassles from them but the stupid palestinains tried to hassle my wife shopping in he shouk:
buy or die they said
I was not there
cowards are like jackals- they like a crowd - screw em if they are not decent
stay safe mate:)

Richo77
16th Mar 2006, 05:28
I caught a bunch of local young un's (14-16) one day after they had been continaully throwing things over my back fence at my dogs. Nothing too bad few empty milk crates, but then one day half a brick and then a shopping trolley.

Was very silently sitting outside with runners on, dogs off leashs and gate open when i heard them coming (i had seem them lurking earlier).

1,2,3 as they launched more milk crates and i leapt out the gate like a harrier jump jet. Scattered em 6 ways and let the dogs chase em for a while but one just barrelled straight into me smacking his head on the road and buggering my knee as we both went down.

Little blighter was [email protected] hisself as i dragged him into the back yard with the dogs and an iron grip (and trying desperately not to show the incredible pain my knee was in).

Let the Mrs unload a both barrels verbal on him and took a lovely photo with the digi camera.

Then simply told him if anything came over my fence again, i would walk the neighbourhood with some nice glossies looking for his mother.

Gave him a decent boot in the arse as he left and he returned about an hour later full of promises and apologies. Never had anything come over my fence again, and even now when i see him he cant make eye contact.

Probably didnt do much (other than stuff my knee for 2 weeks), but by god it felt good!.

R

nutcracker43
16th Mar 2006, 08:02
Blacksheep.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not a violent person but when 'attacked', old lad, I do tend to defend myself...and that's what I did.

60 years ago people did not defend themselves against a vicious and strong creed...look what happened! You probably more than most should know, so spare me your 'thought for the day'

Thank you

NC43

Blacksheep
16th Mar 2006, 10:12
Fighting to defend the weak is commendable nutcracker but when as you freely admitted, you stopped your car and set off after them, they hadn't begun their robbery attempt and were merely a pair of scalleys. What exactly was your intention when you got out of the car and went after them? Protecting old ladies?

My earlier post also referred to the schoolyard where we younger boys would often be picked off by bullying prefects and frog-marched to their upper room, to be soundly beaten for minor infringements of the rules.

So, knight in shining armour or bullying prefect. Which is it to be?

nutcracker43
16th Mar 2006, 10:30
Blacksheep.

They were 'merely a pair of scallys' (hell's bells) who had damaged my car, showed absolutely no respect for other people's property and were giving a hard time to two old ladies. Even if they had not been giving the two old ladies a hard time the outcome would have still been the same. As far as I was concerned they had gone 'beyond their boundaries with me' and they were 'recalibrated'. If you'd been a small lad at my school and cut my tyres or something equally brainless then you may be assured you would have received a good caning as well...bullying has nothing to do with it as well you know...Twisted thinking like yours merely adds to the problem.



So, knight in shining armour or bullying prefect. Which is it to be?

Makes me want to puke!

NC43

Blacksheep
17th Mar 2006, 02:13
Makes me want to puke!
:} :} :}

Tut, tut! You should know me better than that by now... :E

dontpressthat
17th Mar 2006, 03:06
Interesting to hear various views on this suject...

As a nightclub doorman of 3/4 years experience I can say without any doubt that there is only one language these horrible little sh~~s understand.
Its amazing to see the reaction when you wade into a group of the little tur&s and pin the biggest one to the nearest wall.
While I wouldnt recommend this approach to most, what I will say is, report it to the nearest copper. with a good description and even a poz ID they can soon have them skipping down to the nearest plodshop for a few questions and a courtessy humiliation experience.

If faced with the hoody baseball capped shellsuit draped chavs when walking down the street etc, just keep yr head up and look like you own the place.
Give em a clue that yr intimidated and they'll have a pop.
If yr out and about and cant find a copper and yr near a pub/club just have a word with the doorman, theyll more than likely know whos who and whats what and can easily help contact the police on yr behalf and keep an eye on you.

Treat them like the horrible little nothings that they are and dont give em an inch.

DPT

con-pilot
17th Mar 2006, 03:32
We really don't much of a problem with this sort of nonsense in Oklahoma.

We have the so called "Make My Day" law for home protection and Mrs. C-P and I could get a CWP (Concealed Weapon Permit) because of my former days with a Federal Law Enforcement Agency. We don't because we have never needed that permit. For home protection we have an alarm system and maybe more importantly a real Timber Wolf and a Great Pyrenees, the Pyrenees weighs 140 pounds and when she stands up she is nearly six feet tall.

(If anybody would ever break into my home they would probably trip over the Pyrenees and do themselves an injury.:p )

When we are away from the house we have cell (mobile) phones and large fast cars. Also at any given moment on the highways and streets here in Oklahoma City we have a lot of good old boys and gals that are more than happy to help old farts like myself and beautiful ladies such as Mrs. C-P if we are bothered by never-do-wells (Yobbos).

Tony Draper, Sir, you would be happy living in Oklahoma.:ok:

We protect ourselves here and protect our neighbors.

Doors to Automatic
17th Mar 2006, 12:36
I'm not sure I'd wish to live in a society ruled by the strongest and most violent. School was bad enough.

So you'd rather live in the society we have now, where yobs can do exactly as they please?

Do you have a screw loose by any chance? :confused:

Wyler
17th Mar 2006, 13:33
I think the time is fast approaching when we need to consider a dramatic change in the law. My understanding is that the police in the UK have the mandate to protect us and it is for that reason that they were allowed to become more than a malitia. For whatever reason, they do not afford us the protection we deserve in the present day.
In that case I want the law changed to allow me the right to defend my family, myself and my property up to, and including, lethal force. If that means having a weapon in my house, so be it. I want the law also extended to allow me, for instance, to use force to protect my car when parked in a public place.
I am wholly sick and tired of being put on the receiving end of this anti social behaviour and being surrounded by thugs who know their rights but do not know their responsibilities. I am sick of a judicial system that automatically looks to the rights of the villain and not the victim.
I have no confidence in the UK police anymore. Thay have been infected with a terminal dose of Political Correctness and have distanced themselves from those they are supposed to protect.
Change the law and I will look after myself, and my neighbour, thanks very much.

Cue bjcc to tell me what a great job the police are doing and then to lecture me on the dots and commas in the exisiting law blah blah blah.

BenThere
17th Mar 2006, 13:43
Wyler,

Consider moving to Michigan.

We need more guys like you.

Cheers,

simon brown
17th Mar 2006, 13:44
Ive adopted the growling at them in random Scottish before which generally works. Once I did have to back it up with a tin of Heinz Beans across the bridge of the nose though ....which I have to say was very satisfying and had the desired result

A friend of mine and I were chatting about this sort of behavoiur the other night down the pub. His solution is to have them culled and used as land fill....which I suppose is not unreasonable.

I think every town should have a sponsored vigilante funded by the local community charge.

Wyler
17th Mar 2006, 13:48
Ben There

I have just finished packing......:ok:

Curious Pax
17th Mar 2006, 14:00
Ive adopted the growling at them in random Scottish before which generally works. Once I did have to back it up with a tin of Heinz Beans across the bridge of the nose though ....which I have to say was very satisfying and had the desired result
A friend of mine and I were chatting about this sort of behavoiur the other night down the pub. His solution is to have them culled and used as land fill....which I suppose is not unreasonable.
I think every town should have a sponsored vigilante funded by the local community charge.

Wild place, Cheltenham!!

Doors to Automatic
17th Mar 2006, 14:07
I think the time is fast approaching when we need to consider a dramatic change in the law. My understanding is that the police in the UK have the mandate to protect us and it is for that reason that they were allowed to become more than a malitia. For whatever reason, they do not afford us the protection we deserve in the present day.
In that case I want the law changed to allow me the right to defend my family, myself and my property up to, and including, lethal force. If that means having a weapon in my house, so be it. I want the law also extended to allow me, for instance, to use force to protect my car when parked in a public place.
I am wholly sick and tired of being put on the receiving end of this anti social behaviour and being surrounded by thugs who know their rights but do not know their responsibilities. I am sick of a judicial system that automatically looks to the rights of the villain and not the victim.
I have no confidence in the UK police anymore. Thay have been infected with a terminal dose of Political Correctness and have distanced themselves from those they are supposed to protect.
Change the law and I will look after myself, and my neighbour, thanks very much.
Cue bjcc to tell me what a great job the police are doing and then to lecture me on the dots and commas in the exisiting law blah blah blah.

I couldn't put it better myself!

simon brown
17th Mar 2006, 14:12
Curious


Its race week....:ok:

ManfredvonRichthofen
17th Mar 2006, 14:34
Sorry don't know how to quote a quote...

"In that case I want the law changed to allow me the right to defend my family, myself and my property up to, and including, lethal force. If that means having a weapon in my house, so be it. I want the law also extended to allow me, for instance, to use force to protect my car when parked in a public place.
I am wholly sick and tired of being put on the receiving end of this anti social behaviour and being surrounded by thugs who know their rights but do not know their responsibilities. I am sick of a judicial system that automatically looks to the rights of the villain and not the victim."


As to the above.
You actually already have that right. In fact the right to the defence of self-defence can even be invoked in relation to protection of your property. Of course any such reaction in your defence must be proportionate, which is I beleive where Tony Martin fell down - he shot someone in the back.
It isn't really the law that needs to change. The law's not bad. It will never be perfect, but that's just the way it is with law in general.

The thing I have noticed most is an increasing sense of "lack of respect" for anything but oneself. How you address that is anyone's guess....

In the meantime i do my best to stay out of trouble, but it has a habit of finding you. Just last week a 14 yr old female yoof told me how she would "cut" me as I helped a police officer restrain a group of them who'd just knocked another kid unconscious on the way back from school. Part of me wanted to tear her throat out. The other part felt sorry for the low grade life she will no doubt lead.
Ho hum....

Ozzy
17th Mar 2006, 15:37
(If anybody would ever break into my home they would probably trip over the Pyrenees and do themselves an injury. ) In the UK the police would probably charge you with endangerment or some such other offence!

Ozzy

Mr Lexx
17th Mar 2006, 16:04
A chap knocked on my door one christmas to inform me that one of the local scrotes had cut through the wire for my christmas lights. Off I set with Cricket bat is hand intent on some serious action. The passer by bloke caught up with me and took the bat off me (probably a good idea). Anyway, I caught this little get and dragged him back to my house by his coat (no marks on flesh then). He was about 10-11 years old.

Mrs. Lexx kindly brought me my German Shepherd. Little scrote on one hand, snarling dog in other with jaws 2" from scrotes dangly bits. The lad was scared stupid. When the police arrived, they said I had done the right thing (as did his parents). Hopefully, he will now know that there will occassionally be severe consequences for not showing respect to other poeple and their property.

Doors to Automatic
17th Mar 2006, 17:09
A chap knocked on my door one christmas to inform me that one of the local scrotes had cut through the wire for my christmas lights. Off I set with Cricket bat is hand intent on some serious action. The passer by bloke caught up with me and took the bat off me (probably a good idea). Anyway, I caught this little get and dragged him back to my house by his coat (no marks on flesh then). He was about 10-11 years old.
Mrs. Lexx kindly brought me my German Shepherd. Little scrote on one hand, snarling dog in other with jaws 2" from scrotes dangly bits. The lad was scared stupid. When the police arrived, they said I had done the right thing (as did his parents). Hopefully, he will now know that there will occassionally be severe consequences for not showing respect to other poeple and their property.

I'm curious - did this happen in England? From what I understand the police's line on this sort of thing is "don't sort it out yourself or we'll come down on you like a ton of bricks - leave it to us and we'll sort it if we can be bothered to turn up in between telling people what they should be thinking and harrassing motorists"

G-FCLJ
17th Mar 2006, 17:14
i blame the little sh**ts parents. there is no deterant any more too many do gooders.

simon brown
17th Mar 2006, 17:23
As ive always maintained, theres too much crap out there that cant keep its zippers/legs closed, cant accept responsibility for its own actions or that of its mindless feckless chav off spring and so the cycle goes on and on, aided and abetted by the fluffy do gooder state. This endless depressing spiral has a detrimental effect on society and the taxpayer.

neil armstrong
17th Mar 2006, 17:35
these little ***** are out of controle.
Your not allowed the handel it yourself or you could be in trouble! something about them being minors!!!!
We dont have half the problem in Holland as there is in England.but they are still there!
Made the mistake to kick the bicycle (he its holland) of one of them when he cut me off on the sidewalk ,so he and his buddies where waiting for me at the next corner ,i grabbed the throat of the first one who opened his mouth and made it known to them that i was crazier then they where.
When i see them in the street now they always avoid me !
not sure i would dare to do it with some of the scumbags ive seen in English councle estates


Neil

Hoping
17th Mar 2006, 17:39
As ive always maintained, theres too much crap out there that cant keep its zippers/legs closed, cant accept responsibility for its own actions or that of its mindless feckless chav off spring and so the cycle goes on and on, aided and abetted by the fluffy do gooder state. This endless depressing spiral has a detrimental effect on society and the taxpayer.

I think you're right. I think most of the young yobbos we see today are being bred by the terminally unemployed, living on benefits, most likely they are alcoholics in abusive relationships. But what do you suggest be done about it? Seems to me there are two solutions. First is to cut benefits and force the terminally unemployed parents to find a job and become more responsible adults, raising better more responsible children. Of course, doing this will result in those that can't find jobs starving to death, or more likely performing armed robberies at grocery stores. The second and very unpopular solution is to increase the minimum wage so that the terminally unemployed have a real reason to get up off their arses and get a job. After all, why would some of the lowest people in the country go and get a job when it only pays the same as benefits?

So two choices. Cut benefits and let those that really can't find a job fight/die/rob like animals or give them a reason to go to work and keep the minimal social security for the remainder who really cannot get a job for whatever reason.

The British society as a whole needs a serious rethink. Problems everywhere. You can't move for cameras and the working class seem to have NOTHING but drinking to do at the weekend. Changing the law so we can all start beating children up in the street isn't going to make Britain great again...

Wyler
17th Mar 2006, 18:23
Manfred

The only problem with Tony Martin is that he did not kill the other sh*t as well. So what he shot the kid in the back. If the kid had not broken into the property he would still be alive and irritating today. It's this continual recourse to phrases and interpretations of the law which means most people cannot see the wood for the trees.
Keep it simple, break into my house and you may well die. I have the right and I will exercise it. I may shoot you and stab you and, if I have time, stick a firecracker up your ar*se to amuse my kids. Don't fancy that? Stay off my property and away from my family. Nice and easy. No need for a Lawyer to play with words for 300 quid an hour and then prosecute me.

Lon More
17th Mar 2006, 18:34
It's not just in the UK where the law is stupid. It's quite a common thing in the Netherlands to have the entrance to the crawl space under a house under the front doormat, covered by a piece of stout wood.
Before leaving on holiday, someone removed the wood then replaced the mat. A burglar, having forced the front door, then fell the 50cm. into the space, breaking his ankle in the process. His screams of pain bought the neighbours , followed by police and ambulance. Eventually the home owners were charged with the equivalent of malicious wounding.

Brat
17th Mar 2006, 20:47
Got on the bus. Was behind two teen possibly preteen girls.

Smart alec smooth brother who started stabbing his Afro comb in their faces and telling them he was going to do them good. I unwisely told him to cool it we were all simply traveling together and why not in peace and harmony.

Told I would be filled in, lucky he wasn't with his mates, etc etc. Told him bring it on but not too sure that was wise.

He finaly got off but with many headline incidents playing through my mind decided I had probably been lucky.

Either I would have been had up for GBH racism or simply assault, or, I would have ended up with a knife in my chest.

What a sad choice.

Metro man
18th Mar 2006, 00:30
Strangely enough abusive yobs not a problem in Singapore. Prehaps it's because the police come down on anti social behaviour like a ton of bricks.

A few strokes with the rattan diminishes the urge to run down the street shouting abuse, kicking over dustbins and assaulting O.A.P.s

A police force not concerned with being politically correct and given the backing it needs to enforce the law does have its advantages. ;)

Blacksheep
18th Mar 2006, 06:14
A police force not concerned with being politically correct and given the backing it needs to enforce the law does have its advantages.Aye, combined with compulsory national service and the practical assistance of the Vigilante Corps - neighbourhood watch with big sticks and the power of arrest. More effective than the DIY variety and leads to a nice peaceful environment.

I do confess, I very much like Singapore. Clean, peaceful and no litter - although they did find a woman's head in a litter bin down in Orchard Road. :uhoh:

Krystal n chips
18th Mar 2006, 08:14
Watched the "30mins" prog on C4 last night as the topic was Disability and the lack of rights for such people---very interesting prog in it's own right--however, it also featured an interview with a lady who had learning difficulties and was doing her best to live a normal life as possible--well done Madam--:ok: -until the local sub intellectual mutant retards decided it would be "good fun":yuk: to throw a brick through her window, cut her washing line down and generally harass the lady--eventually, those bastions of common sense and PC aka the local Council decided it would be best to move her to another location--brilliant decision !!!--must have taken then "x" amount of committee and man hours to work that one out:rolleyes: ---and the yobs ?--they got off scot free. :mad:

Have I missed something here I wonder or am I just confused as to the priorities in our "society". ?

Garfs
18th Mar 2006, 09:55
as I've said before, bring back corporal punishment in the UK

SyllogismCheck
18th Mar 2006, 10:09
It's just another way in which laziness is manifesting itself in our society. Everyone wants to moan and bleat 'What are they going to do about this problem?' instead of actually doing the doing, taking some positive action themselves.

There never have, are not and never will be enough police on the streets to enable them to be there and do something about every incident that occurrs. It's down to us, all of us, to react against and not accept anti-social behaviour and make not doing so, as it once was, the norm'. Then, and only then, will these little oiks think twice before doing no good as they know it wont be ignored by the decent majority of people around them as it is now. Whilst most of us are happy to stand and 'Oh!' and 'Ah!' and 'Isn't it terrible!' but not actually doing anything, it'll only go on worsening, they can get away with it unchallenged.

It wasn't so long ago that a little old lady knew she could give a little scrote a whack round the head with her walking stick for giving her lip because 'society' would have its eye out for her. Now she can't because if he turns on her, the rest of the public will more than likely not react in her defence, the only eye likely to be turned is a blind one.

It sickens me how frequently I've seen people pass by nasty situations, even ones that would not have compromised their safety to assist in, because 'It's not their problem'. For as long as people are prepared to do so, there's not much hope of a change for the better I'm afraid. It's down to us, all of us, and most of us can't be bothered. The question is 'What are we going to do about this?' not 'they', there is no 'they', 'they' is us.

It seems that it's more important to many to get home in time for Eastenders or some other drivel than it is to stop and assist an old lady who's slipped and fallen on the grass verge at the side of a busy road. I'll wager some of the selfish :mad: who drove on by even said later, 'It was terrible. No one stopped'. Disgusting. :*

If she was being harrassed by some little yobs rather than having fallen... well, no chance, helping might become 'frightening' as well as 'inconvenient'. The blind eyes simply become even blinder. The voices, however, retain the audacity to continue whinging.

Oh, and how many people who've actually stepped into a situation, done the right thing and not over-stepped the mark have really found themselves on the wrong side of the law? Just do what's necessary, no more, and you'll be fine. It's mostly an excuse, a pathetic one at that. :yuk:

acbus1
18th Mar 2006, 11:01
I take your points, to some extent, SyllogismCheck.

The problem is that "Just do what's necessary, no more" is impossible to judge. The only safe option is to exceed what might be necessary by a large margin. The problem then is that The Law will come down on you.


.......how many people who've actually stepped into a situation, done the right thing and not over-stepped the mark have really found themselves on the wrong side of the law?

The more people I talk to about this topic, the more I hear of instances where people have been prosecuted by The Law for defending themselves/others.

The Law needs to stop protecting the rights of the yob and, instead, extend the rights of the victim/protector! The yobs might think twice when that message goes out loud and clear!

SyllogismCheck
18th Mar 2006, 11:54
I simply haven't experienced the law being that fickle.

An example. I heard a commotion outside my house one evening, went to the door and saw a guy kicking the fence in. Without thought I shouted at him and he ran. I was angered and not minded to just let him run off. Typically, I had no shoes on so it took me a moment to grab some and get under way in chase. When I finally caught him some way down the road I realised, as I got hold of him, that he was a fairly hefty chap so I decided it was best not to mess around but be decisive. I just put him down, held him there and gave him his options. He didn't appear to want to take the easy ones offered so held him there with one hand and a knee while I called the police. By the time they arrived he'd done himself no favours by struggling around face down on the ground and had a few scrapes and grazes. The police were fine about it. They gave me the standard 'For your own safety' lecture, but why should I play victim, the one at risk? I didn't, dont and won't.

He got slightly roughed up for a minor case of criminal damage. Hardly a serious crime and yet the police weren't interested in my conduct in the least, even though they told me he'd complained, as it was well within reasonable bounds. I mean, I even refrained from using my permitted pre-emptive strike when he called me nasty things, threatened me and made me feel endangered. ;)

Sure, we read about it, but I don't know of anyone personally who's had the law come down on them for doing the right thing. I suspect, much like most things in the press, such cases are vastly over exaggerated.

G-CPTN
18th Mar 2006, 12:10
they did find a woman's head in a litter bin down in Orchard Road. :uhoh:
She was probably just a nobody . . .

ThreadBaron
18th Mar 2006, 12:32
[cynicism]
When a teenaged mother called her three or four year-old daughter '...you stupid c**t', I promised myself that I would leave the country at the earliest opportunity and not come back.

It is not going to get any better ... ever!

Note: [cynicism] remains on!

JamesT73J
18th Mar 2006, 17:12
I work at an inner city college, and as such am in close proximity to large numbers of these people. In some cases, the lack of respect for authority is absolute - they don't give a shit.

The culture is a big part of the problem. Discipline enforcement is inconsistent - these kids are not stupid, they're well aware of how far they can push, and there's a large number of teachers that simply do nothing.

I witnessed some disgusting little tracksuited shitbag screaming at a tutor because he'd been marked absent, thus losing his EMA (great idea Tony :rolleyes: ) entitlement. The fact that he's not supposed to receive it if he isn't there was apparently lost on him.

Krystal n chips
18th Mar 2006, 18:03
[cynicism]
When a teenaged mother called her three or four year-old daughter '...you stupid c**t', I promised myself that I would leave the country at the earliest opportunity and not come back.

It is not going to get any better ... ever!

Note: [cynicism] remains on!

Probably a very close relative of the charming family I witnessed being briefed by the mother in answer to their questions "Where's the f££in camera's Mum? " On the f££in left and one ahead"---as they entered one of my local supermarkets last week.

Reasons to leave the UK No 3215 !

None of the above
19th Mar 2006, 10:41
Today's Sunday Times carries an extract from a book called "Yob Nation" and is a pretty depressing way to start Sunday.
I have no pressing calls on my time this afternoon, so I will probably start to dig a moat around the ancestral pile.
I'll worry about the drawbridge later.

Mr Lexx
19th Mar 2006, 11:09
I'm curious - did this happen in England? From what I understand the police's line on this sort of thing is "don't sort it out yourself or we'll come down on you like a ton of bricks - leave it to us and we'll sort it if we can be bothered to turn up in between telling people what they should be thinking and harrassing motorists"

It did indeed happen in England. The police around the area were very "tolerant" of law "bending" (as they knew their hands were tied, getting rid of a house full of drug dealers is a story for another day).

As it turned out the police bod that attended my house went to the same school as me at around the same time.........

Doors to Automatic
19th Mar 2006, 19:17
As it turned out the police bod that attended my house went to the same school as me at around the same time.........

Ah I knew there had to be some unusual explanation!! :hmm:

chiglet
19th Mar 2006, 23:59
AAAhhhhhh...the "good old days"......
If I did summat wrong, I got a "clip 'round the ear" . [B]NOT an assault, just a "mind your Ps and Qs" :ok:
If I did summat really wrong, and PC Plod caught me, it was clip 'round ear...and taken nome to Dad.......Bu6ger :uhoh:
We were taught to respect...our Parents,Elders,Police,Teachers..and the OAPs. As a "younger person", I would.....give up my seat on a 'bus for an "older person", hold open a door for a lady, etc. I would recieve a smile or a "thank you" in return.....Small curtesies [sp] gave great rewards then.
I think that that [as well as discipline, manners and the "general demeanour"] held great sway.....now, it's "You got it [ie earned it". I want it [and I'll do you to get it]
What the answer is..? I dunnow.
Mr Blurs Eddication, EDDICATION EDDICATION might be an answer, provided that we can "Eddicate" them "properly"
watp,iktch

Lon More
20th Mar 2006, 01:01
Grew up in pretty much the same way as Chiglet, Except my dad was a Special Constable, so I was kept pretty much on the straight and level. One ear is still bigger than the other:uhoh:
What the answer is..? I dunnow.
In extreme cases, as it's caused by an unbalanced personality, the insertion of a small piece of lead above the left ear will solve the problem.

G-CPTN
20th Mar 2006, 01:09
In extreme cases, as it's caused by an unbalanced personality, the insertion of a small piece of lead above the left ear will solve the problem.
Applied with a shotgun . . .

con-pilot
20th Mar 2006, 03:09
Applied with a shotgun . . .

Aw G-C you're a man after me own heart you are.:ok:

obgraham
20th Mar 2006, 04:25
Y'all are generatin a darn good case for wider possession of personal firearms.

Solid Rust Twotter
20th Mar 2006, 06:01
Would it be wrong to nail the little feckers to the pavement by their lips using a Hilti nail gun until Plod eventually arrives?:confused:

Lon More
20th Mar 2006, 10:07
G-C, Prefer a Desert Eagle myself

http://www.magnumresearch.com/images/desert_homepix.jpg

Twotter, many years ago a friend's 5 year old daughter was "flashed". She immediately ran home and told her Dad. The flasher was well known in the area, and despite many complaints to the police nothing had been done. My friend found the bloke, who seemed quite proud of what he was doing and freely admitted it. The police were called and promised to be along later, and would my friend detain the suspect. About two hours later plod arrived to find two mates sitting on the garden wall, drinking a beer. No suspect in sight.
"Where is he?" "He's gone to the hospital."
Gtting fed up of waiting, and knowing nothing would be done by the law anyway, they'd put his dangly bits on the wall and hit them with a hammer.:{

Curious Pax
20th Mar 2006, 10:36
Sure, we read about it, but I don't know of anyone personally who's had the law come down on them for doing the right thing. I suspect, much like most things in the press, such cases are vastly over exaggerated.

Wise words - cases like the Tony Martin one (which was very different to the run of the mill protecting-your-own-property scenario) have been pumped up by the press to the extent that most people seem to believe that if you catch a burglar in your house and don't help him load your belongings into the getaway car you will be the one up in court. However whilst such examples grab the headlines, I believe the reality is closer to that described by SC and Lon. The police might tell you that you shouldn't take the law into your own hands, but I would bet that 9 times out of 10 they would do it with a look on their face that says they won't be too unhappy if you do, within reason.

This talk of going abroad to escape this intrigues me. With the exception of places like Singapore, the majority of Western countries have similar problems. The plus of course, is that you often can't understand what is being said, so don't take the offence that you would in the examples highlighted by Krystal and TB!

Wyler
20th Mar 2006, 10:47
Talking about general apathy amongst the public. I was in our local town on Saturday and there was one of these security vans parked outside a bank. All of a sudden its alarm went off and this recorded voice said 'Help Help, security van being attacked, call the police' followed by alarm and then repeated again.
I would have understood if people scattered, thinking some nutter with a gun was about to emerge. But the reaction was absolute zero. People just carried on about their business, not even giving the van a second glance. I called the police. They arrived quite quickly and it turned out to be a dodgy alarm. Mine was the only call they had received.
I think there are 2 main reasons we have become like this. Firstly, we have no confidence in the authorities to support or protect us. Get involved and you become a target. Secondly, it's not my problem, someone else will deal with it.
I believe we are already too far down the road to change things. Authority is a dirty word and a challenge. Personal responsibility is an infringement of Human Rights. Hence my desire for a change in the Law to enable me to protect me, mine and my neighbour, using whatever force necessary.

Solid Rust Twotter
20th Mar 2006, 11:19
A friend was attacked in his home by three armed men. He was shot in the chest and while lying on the floor in the passage his wife brought his firearm to him which he used to kill one of the intruders as he came at him again with a knife. His brother was shot dead by the remaining intruders as they made their escape.

When the police eventually arrived he was charged with murder before being given medical assistance and his nine year old son was taken aside by a cop and browbeaten and threatened to get him to say that his father had shot first, which he refused to do as it was untrue.

He lives within walking distance of where I do...

nutcracker43
20th Mar 2006, 11:47
Curious Pax.

Some years ago my house was broken into by persons unknown...I had good idea who they were. The police were quick off the mark as regards their investigation and even they suggested who it might have been...had I seen them in the area...that sort of questioning. I suggested that the next time I caught them "a good seeing to might be in order but then of course I would be 'done' for assault". The reply was quite unexpected: "That's true as the law stands but naturally these two would have fallen into the drain and damaged themselves as they were running away, wouldn't you say?" Even the police are pi$$ed off with the behaviour of this sort of pond life.

NC43

Wyler
20th Mar 2006, 12:26
Just been reading the papers and there is Chelsea yet again inciting violence because they did not get their own way. Their jumped up little Portugese Manager is a shocking example as well. With the kind of following they have is it any wonder kids emulate them with aggressive, petulant and arrogant behaviour.

Then of course there is Mr Rooney........and the BBC drooling over Mr Best (deceased).....

Re-Heat
20th Mar 2006, 12:40
Wyler:

Or alternatively security and policing are so good that people assume it is a false alarm before considering a crime may be taking place?

Onan the Clumsy
20th Mar 2006, 14:02
Wyler, I certainly wouldn't have done anything about yet another alarm going off. Maybe if I thought it actually meant something I would, but as it stands, the only call to the police I would make is to complain about the noise polution because it would obviously be yet another false alarm...which is what it was. :*

MrFire
20th Mar 2006, 19:50
did the security van look particularly distressed or did you just follow the voices instructions...?
Those goddam robots trying to tell us what to do

Metro man
21st Mar 2006, 23:41
In Singapore abusive yobs aren't tolerated, the government comes down on anti social behaviour like a ton of bricks.

When caught there are some basic differences in the approach taken by Singapore vs Britain.

Britain
If the police can be bothered to turn up, assuming they have booked their quota of motorists for the day, perhaps lout gets arrested if he's not from an ethnic minority they have been told to go easy on.

Maybe the C.P.S. decide to prosecute if they're not to busy. Perhaps the jury find him guilty if they're not convinced otherwise by some smarmy $300/hour hand wringing tax payer funded lawyer.

If guilty judge give $50 fine, conditional discharge, community service, probation etc.

Lout goes to pub for celebration drink with his mates were he is involved in another fight.

Singapore
Police do turn up and arrest lout. Prosecuted ? for sure. No tax payer funded lawyer, if you want one pay for it yourself. No jury, judge not impressed by pathetic excuses and gives a sentence of 6 strokes with the rattan and a $2000 fine. After 2-3 days of laying face down, lout goes home much poorer and having learnt a lesson. His mates learn too.

Result Singapore is a very safe place, Britain well you don't need me to tell you.

I would pay good money for the pleasure of watching the Singapore police deal with a UK football match, home win and Saturday night "celebration";)

BenThere
22nd Mar 2006, 00:48
Singapore's got it right. One of the most pleasant, cleanest places in the world. I think Americans, if given a vote in the matter, would want the same structure. But our constitutions bans 'cruel and unusual punishment', which has come to include, thanks to lawyers and judges, witholding of cable TV from prison cells. As John Lennon wrote, "What they need's a damn good whacking."

con-pilot
22nd Mar 2006, 01:08
I have to agree about Singapore.

However, I cannot get over the hookers that come up as the sun sets. They will follow you right up to the entrance of the hotel. I mean they're nice, but my god they are everywhere.

(And some of them, okay most of them, are really attractive.)

G-CPTN
22nd Mar 2006, 01:15
However, I cannot get over the hookers that come up as the sun sets. They will follow you right up to the entrance of the hotel. I mean they're nice, but my god they are everywhere.
(And some of them, okay most of them, are really attractive.)
Ladyboys some of them too.

WG774
22nd Mar 2006, 02:09
Ladyboys some of them too.

Would you be speaking from experience then? How did you find this out?


:eek:

Doors to Automatic
22nd Mar 2006, 09:10
Singapore has got it totally right.
I remember a few years ago following a link from this site to a Singapore paper which was reporting on some aviation story.
The story must have changed because when I clicked on the link I got a story about a car that had been broken into. Police had become involved and were dropping leaflets on windscreens and conducting house-to-house enquiries!!!!
I can't imagine anything like the first rate system in Singapore happening here whilst we have criminal-loving [email protected] like Charles Clarke in charge. (And he is a total [email protected]):mad:

Solid Rust Twotter
22nd Mar 2006, 10:04
DtoA

What exactly is it you have against [email protected]?:E

Doors to Automatic
22nd Mar 2006, 12:07
DtoA
What exactly is it you have against [email protected]?:E

Nothing if they fulfill the specific role they have in society :ok:

Solid Rust Twotter
22nd Mar 2006, 12:18
One thought you didn't like them, comparing them to a politician and all.....:E

Wyler
22nd Mar 2006, 14:03
Or indeed an Aussie Rules match, or even a little race riot in Sydney....perhaps.

Not so sure about Singapore being spotless mind, walk off the main streets and you will find just as much crap as anywhere else.

Worked with members of the Singapore Armed Forces for a couple of years. Nice people but soooooo up tight with little or no sense of humour.

Ban probation, serve full (and much longer) sentences.

acbus1
22nd Mar 2006, 15:46
Wish I had something against a [email protected] :(

Curious Pax
22nd Mar 2006, 17:18
Ban probation, serve full (and much longer) sentences.

If I was a betting man (must stop using that phrase!) then I would guess that average sentences would just fall to reflect the change, so the net change would be minimal. In theory at least probation gives a means of monitoring crims after release. The practise is clearly another matter - perhaps that is where the focus should be?

Never seen that longer sentences would change much myself, where we are talking about anything longer than a year or 2 served. Your average criminal is unlikely to think "uh oh, I would have got 3 years for that previously, now I'd get 6, so I won't do it. "I would argue that in most cases it is the chances of being caught that weighs heaviest. Drug addicts and crimes of passion would be exceptions, as in both cases I wouldn't think any consequences would be considered in the main.

BenThere
22nd Mar 2006, 20:23
Don't discount the benefits of having the predatory people among us sequestered where thay can do no harm.

Metro man
23rd Mar 2006, 01:59
Wyler, you are right about the race riot, but things would not have got that far with the Singapore police.

The Aussie approach is similar to the British one i.e. lots of hand wringing and do nothing. The Aussie males involved resorted to primal behaviour in order to protect themselves and their women from the anti social behaviour of the Lebanese.

Hence we saw images of males beating their bare chests and issuing war cries (Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi, oi, oi). They rallied under tribal colours (Aussie flag), add large amounts of alcohol and the result was predictable. Full scale riot.

The Singapore approach would have been to deal heavily with the anti social behaviour as soon as it started. There would have been a few canings, heavy fines etc. But there would have been no riot, no lockdowns of large parts of the city and no one injured.

Now who has the right approach ?:E