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View Full Version : Police to get World Cup jolly!


Helli-Gurl
9th Mar 2006, 17:12
Well, in my somewhat cynical frame of mind today....probably to do with that certain time of the month us girls go thru I saw on the News that the good old "boys in blue" are to get a Jolly to the World Cup.

Now I know that wasn't the phrase Sky used, it was cunningly disguised as an "undercover operation" where plain clothes officers will mingle with the crowd, go and watch the games and get tickets for the final at 1,000 euros a pop and get to stay in nice hotels and no doubt be flown out there all at the tax payers' expense.

Now for the controversy, What are the Germans up to while these guys are out there having a good time? I am sure German efficiency is more than capable of taking care of security and crime in their own country so why are we paying to take care of security arrangements in another country?

And what about spending this money on tackling good old everyday crime in the UK, and I dont mean chasing robbers in high profile cases where the bill has probably ecaslated to more than the 40 or million stolen, but burglaries an making the good ol' public that fund all this feel comfortable on the streets of old blighty once more?

Besides, since when has a uk bobby no matter how covert and undercover (personally I prefer sly and snidey) had jurisdiction in Germany?


x

maxy101
9th Mar 2006, 17:42
Yeah.....I'd heard that you like sly and snidey Helli-Gurl :}

Helli-Gurl
9th Mar 2006, 17:43
Yeah.....like my Ex BF...he was expert at it!

Onan the Clumsy
9th Mar 2006, 17:46
Won't the old helmet and boots be a bit of a giveaway?

maxy101
9th Mar 2006, 17:47
ouch!!! Poor soul

Helli-Gurl
9th Mar 2006, 18:15
C'est la vie...

Anyway this thread is about the police being on a jolly not the antics of my Ex-bf which are probably more exciting but not the topic of discussion

frostbite
9th Mar 2006, 18:34
They don't seem to miss a trick. I heard one senior cop on TV talking about his 'lads' going to any corner of the planet to catch the rather minor culprit then under discussion, and my immediate thought was 'yes, more free holidays'.

Helli-Gurl
9th Mar 2006, 18:39
Too right...just what I was thinking...

The bit I am having trouble getting my head round, apart from why my taxes taken from my hard earned wages (no jokes fromcertainindividuals please) is paying for these guys to go off on a jolly to arrest Ned Kelly or whoever?

, but....since when did the UK Police have any jurisdiction in Patagonia, Germany,the moon wherever but on British soil?

B Fraser
9th Mar 2006, 22:35
That's the whole point ! Radio 4 were helpfully pointing out that the UK police would have no powers whatsoever. Just as well your average Millwall supporter can't spell radio 4 let alone find it.

Hopefully the scum who think they're going to Germany will get a very well deserved wake-up call. I don't mind seeing the police get the occasional perk as long as the tickets they use are diverted from those who are an embarassment to society.

Paracab
9th Mar 2006, 23:40
Some of the hardcore scum are already banned from attending the world cup, however, I am sure some of the known yob element will still be travelling, so team up Brit Plod with the Polizei in small groups, Brit Plod point out the hooligans, Polizei 'take care' of the arrest (all feds involved in the bundle) and jobs a good 'un. Thats what I think will happen anyway.

Will report back on what I see in July, as I will be out there (and my match tickets are already secured...:cool: ).

maxy101
10th Mar 2006, 09:38
I guess people wouldn't mind as much if plod were actually catching criminals in the U.K. Perhaps this is the only way to get the arrest rate up? Go abroad and nick yobbos that seem to be untouchable in the U.K due to the CPS and the poor lovelies' human rights.

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 09:45
How are they getting their arrest rate up? they can't nick anyone abroad,the Germans have to do that! and they will be prosecuted under German Law

They are there to observe and make sure these guys are targetted when they get back to the UK as potential trouble makers.

tall and tasty
10th Mar 2006, 10:32
Well I guess the boys in blue will enjoy and hopefully learn from the German tactics on policing crowds like these. :}

They are there to observe and make sure these guys are targeted when they get back to the UK as potential trouble makers.To be honest when World cup or FA or anything like that came up when I worked in the Airline, there are strict rules set in place under regulations to issue tickets to allow any know trouble makers to travel on a UK airline and all the tour operators adhere to these. Hopefully it stops them traveling to the grounds abroad and eases any possible flare ups between fans. But there are always though how get through and in fact I know of a respectable person who worked within an airline who once he was in a footie mode became a trouble maker of the biggest kind just to stir things up!:*

Why I never understand you can't be a real fan if that is what you want to start. Any sport is that just that there to be enjoyed and not turned into a blood bath!

Besides, since when has a uk bobby no matter how covert and undercover (personally I prefer sly and snidey) had jurisdiction in GermanyI presume and I am sure there are those on here who will correct me that as it is all part of the EU they have protocol in place that allows this sort of thing to happen.

But our European comrades in the police force seem to have more freedom to use things like water cannon, tear gas and alot nastier deterrents to break up rioting crowds than the British forces seem to have, so I think those who think causing trouble is going to be a good thing are going to get that shock and wake up call Mr Fraser spoke about.

TnT

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 10:36
There may well be protocols in place etc, but they have no powers of arrest, they can merely assist and observe, the arrest being made by the force of the country they are in

maxy101
10th Mar 2006, 11:03
It just seems to be the old Brit trait of solving everybody elses problems instead of solving the problems at home. Next thing you know we'll be donating money and effort on solving third word debt and aids in Africa. Oops, I forgot, we've done that by bringing all the third worlds AIDS patients to the UK already. I wonder if my grandmother that has been waiting for her hip replacement realised that when she paid her taxes for 50 yrs that it would be spent on follies such as these.

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 11:14
It just seems to be the old Brit trait of solving everybody elses problems instead of solving the problems at home

there's a few people closer to home that I know would benefit from that to

Tolsti
10th Mar 2006, 11:34
It was said on R4 last evening that the bobbies on duty at the football gound will not have powers of arrest, but will accompany the Germans.
However those detailed to travel with their German colleagues on the transport network (a different police jurisdiction) will be sworn in as a sort of temporary deputy and will have limited powers of arrest.

Holiday??? I doubt it. (unless you regard facing screaming a**holes) the sort of holiday you seek.

VFE
10th Mar 2006, 12:54
Football = MEGA BUCKS these days weather we like it or not.

Bad hooligans abroad are bad for business and the UK earns less money as a result. Henceforth British police officers are 'jollying it up' abroad whilst your local friendly chavs, Charmaine and Frazor loot your property.

See, in the scheme of things, us folks in the front line really don't matter when it comes to getting rich.

VFE.

AeroSpark
10th Mar 2006, 13:52
I don't really see the big deal. They are going as spotters to aid the local police catch known troublemakers. I imagine other countries will also be sending teams of spotters to assist. Police spotters travel to just about every domestic match in England, with a tournament the size of the World Cup they are probably needed even more with the extra potential for trouble.

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 14:02
I think the general objection here is that the good ol' Tax Payer is footing the bill to send these guys to the World Cup where they have no power and frommy own opinion are about as useful as a Spare u know what at a wedding, When there is so much crime in the UK going undetected because the Police say they don't have the money or resource to tackle it and resort to cash revenue generation through hounding the motorist to keep going.
Surely the money would be put to better use solving the crime in this country and stopping these thugs from going to the World Cup in the first place? remove the combustable material and surely you have no fire?

I was broken into a short while ago and and all I got was a lone soco guy who showed up and took a few pics and a statement etc was here all of 10 mins as he said he had dozens more places to get to.When I quizzed himas to what would happen next..he said "nothing love....it's more a question of it was your turn.....you really don't think we have time to go about trying to find out who these people are!"

What chance do we stand with an attitude like that.....bet these guys can't wait to get out to the World Cup tho!

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 14:36
Have you ever been to an England football match abroad Heli-gurl?

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 14:52
what does it matter if i have or i haven't?

The issue is why is the British Tax Payer paying for policing another country, I can unsertand stopping the rowdy element going abroad tothese games, but with crime rife in this countr we shhould be taking care of matters closer to home than in Germany. Besides it is just English Fans that can't behave!

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 14:56
You could also argue as to why the tax payer is footing the bill?, surely the cost of any extra policing should come out of money raised from Ticket Sales? which some may well be but certainly not all,leaving the tax payer footing the bill whether they have even a passing interest in the World Cup or not

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 15:02
Known hooligans are not able to buy official England tickets, therefore how can the money come from there? Why should fans who are not causing trouble pay? As you've already said you are unaware of what jobs these policeman are doing and why they're doing it, perhaps you shouldn't be starting threads about it?

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 15:08
And that justifies every tax payer in the UK paying for this when the minority are out there enjoying the Football or causing the trouble...?

I hardly think so, I can see why people vote with their feet and emmigrate!

And in respeonse to your agument, why should some poor soul in the UK that has no interest in football pay either? and what about all the england fans that live in europe but don't pay tax as they don't live in the uk?, they're not paying

Known hooligans are not able to buy official England tickets
that's a joke, it's a well known and well publicised fact that known hooligans have attended matches abroad.If they can't buy tickets how do they get there?

I would agree they can't buy through (or shouldn't be able to) Official Sources...but if they didn't have an official ticket at an event like the WC they would never get in (I would hope)

Maybe you should heed you're own advice?

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 15:24
Slow down Helli-gurl, your posts would be more readable.

Every tax payer pays for every bit of policing. (Including £100,000 today to Stephen Lawrence's mate for his hurt feelings). Since when did anyone get to choose what parts of the police they want to pay for. If you don't think preventing fighting is a sensible use of police resources, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

"Known hooligans are not able to buy official England tickets"
that's a joke, it's a well known and well publicised fact that known hooligans have attended matches abroadAs I said, slow down and read properly, I said "official" England tickets. If you know of a way of collecting back taxes from the black market I'd be interested to hear it.

You're right, known hooligans can bypass this and either buy unofficial tickets or try and cause trouble outside the grounds. How can we stop this? I know, how about a small group of English police who know all the 'faces' and what they look like, going over to help ensure this doesn't happen?

Could you let me know what percentage of the whole UK police budget is being spent on this?

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 15:33
As Sky have said, the total bill for Policing the WC won't be known until after the WC and will be clawed back when the taxes are increased to pay for it,

However we will have to agree to disagree on this as I really believe we should take care of matters closer to home...

You're right we can't choose which bits we want policed but Germany bid for the World Cup I think Germany should pay for it! especially as they are reaping financial rewards from hosting it I am sure.

As for stopping it...like I said mabve we should stop the "known faces" from travelling abroad, surely that's a possibility if they are as you say "known"

But is it also right that local policing suffers at the expense of this...if you have every been broken into and been told "it's your turn" and that nothing will be done as the finances and resources just aren't there then youll know what I mean, and god forbid it happens to someone you care about like you're family, then that really rams it home

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 15:39
Whatever the cost is Helli - I guarantee it won't be enough to 'raise taxes'. I imagine it will be a lot less than the 100,000 given out today.

As for stopping it...like I said mabve we should stop the "known faces" from travelling abroad, surely that's a possibility if they are as you say "known"The vast majority are (about 2,000 orders at the moment I believe).

But is it also right that local policing suffers at the expense of this...if you have every been broken into and been told "it's your turn" and that nothig will be done as the finances and resources just aren't there then youll know what I mean, and god forbid it happens to someone you care about like you're family, then that really rams it homeIt's happened to me too, and guess what? There was no World Cup on.

Do you really think perhaps a dozen officers away for a couple of weeks will make a blind bit of difference?

Curious Pax
10th Mar 2006, 15:47
Anyone else think Helli-gurl's ex is a copper?

Helli-Gurl
10th Mar 2006, 15:48
We'll have to wait until next year to see if that's true or not,but when your council tax goes up then you'll have to wonder what % of that rise can be aportioned to the WC

Like I said we'll have to agree to disagree as I still think UK Tax Payers money is best spent in the UK and will never see why the whole of the UK is paying for something a small percentage of the population will actually participate in.

Some of the areas of the UK are already under resourced as it is, the Police freely admit they can't cope so I would argue taking 1 officer off for 1 day could have an effect.....but if you're happy to accept it just "bad luck" when a member of your family is mugged, or it's "your turn" when you're broken into and robbed, then that's your perogative and I wont stop you..but I for one am not prepared to accept that and I am sure I am by no means alone in thinking like that

Biggles Flies Undone
10th Mar 2006, 15:50
Kinnel... I'm not a big defender of the boys in blue (far from it) but I think you've got it wrong here, Helli.

Known troublemakers go abroad, cause trouble and all England fans get branded as yobs.

Known troublemakers go abroad, get identified by plod, get moved on and the rest of the England fans enjoy the tournament.

Isn't that the point of the exercise, not that a few plod got a cheap holiday? :hmm:

strafer
10th Mar 2006, 16:01
Exactly.

And Heli - it was 'my turn' on more than one occasion, the police did sweet FA and it had NOTHING to do with the World Cup!:uhoh: