Has Dixon let another cat out of the bag?

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Was watching the ABC new break tonight and saw Darth doing his new conference and I quote:

"I do not believe Australians have a monopoly to maintatin aircraft or fly aircraft or whatever."

Could be interesting times ahead for the pilots too. Hope AIPA is on the ball with this one...

[touchncloth]

Yes also caught that little hint of the impending wage war on the company's pilots.:cool:

[Angle of Attack]

Bring it on, get rid of QF pilots, I mean for god sake, until someone stands up to this company or this government or the whole bluff we will get no where... Unfortunately thus far QF management has skillfully seperated all the EBA's , so its slowly transforming around us. Get together and take them down.. After all we are all that keeps this airline running... Cant we realise that?

[OhSpareMe]

Yep. We'll all be rooned.

[Ultralights]

you are already all rooned! your failure to agree on anything will assure that! and dixon knows it! setting up a wage war between its own staff! How could you have let it get to this???????

they only way you will get anywhere is if you ALL go out to save yourself from winning the race to the bottom, and we all know that will never happen.

interesting side note, i attended a company roadshow today, and the words of the day were return on invested capital, retainment and training of the skill base, and increased growth of the order book, (now approaching $1B for the year) and consistant output from trained and reliable staff. (not loosing production to training inexperienced staff as a result of staff turnover)

yet QF talks of nothing but Benchmarks, and worlds best (cheapest) practice......:rolleyes:

[Turbo 5B]

:mad: I wouldn't mind seeing a bench mark across Dixons face.

[pug munter]

QF is no longer "Australian" but is part of the new world of transnational corporations who solely persue the needs of their shareholders, regardless of the cost (to anyone). That is, using a human behavioural analogy, their behaviour is pathological; the end justifies the means.

Have a look at:

The Corporation: the pathological pursuit of profit and power
by
Joel Baklan

It was also made into a movie of the same name.

QF directors seem to have a similar adherance to the rule that anything goes when considering the need to constantly maximise shareholder return. After all, under the Corporations Act, they can be sued for damages by the shareholders if they do not do that. That is the job of the director - nothing else - repeat - nothing else.

All the advertising jingles, kids in iconic locations, platitudes about workers jobs, is just b/s. The term "stakeholders" in any debate is an academic smokescreen.

Surely it is no coincidence that John Howard quickly "hosed down" any further suggestion of changes to the recently "adjusted" IR system. He knows he has made fundamental changes and doesn't want a revolution on his hands after all, QF was such a strong supporter. He won the last election on McMansion voters(frightened of his last minute reminder that interest rates go up under Labor) and he can't afford to worry them too much any more. Some of them would have been QF engineers but I guess he thinks a little collateral damage can be tolerated.

It should not be forgotten that all the states have yet to renew the agreement which passes their powers concerning corporations law to the Commonwealth. THAT is what QF workers should be pointing out to their members for their own state parliaments and their union delegates.

Wake up Australia to what is happening in your lucky "sunburned" country.

[OK 3 wire]

Dixon forgot to mention that there are many better qualified people overseas that could also manage an airline.

I'm sure that the top floor at QF house could be replaced by cheaper MBA's from India for example.

I also think that the bean counters & management will get some sort of bonus for reducing the salary expeniture of the company.

[jaded boiler]

It's patently obvious isn't it?

The enviable safety reputation that Qantas enjoys, bears no correlation to the ongoing efforts of highly motivated and skilled pilots, engineers, flight attendants, etc, or their dedication to their job and the company over the years.

It is solely a result of the tireless travails undertaken by the migratory marketing spivs and windowless office dwelling drones, individuals who are incapable of composing a single sentence without resorting to fatuous, managerialist, double-speak gibberish "going forward".

[Crossbleed]

quote ;"The enviable safety reputation Qantas enjoys is in no way related to the efforts of highly motivated and skilled pilots, engineers, flight attendants, etc, and their dedication to their job and the company over the years."

Oooh boy, well I suppose it's true per se, but let's not forget some things about the rat. They have killed people (Okay, not in the "Jet-Age"), they are a small airline that operate in largely open skies here in Oz with good ATC, they service a small route network o/s compared to almost anyone else you care to name etc.. etc..

I agree that these people at the coal-face are good at what they do, but so are the vast majority around the traps. Not being personal JB, but the rat has come VERY close a few times to being an aluminium shower, there but for the grace of god...

All done. Cross/Bleeed.

[lowerlobe]

Crossbleed

It may come as a big surprise to you but QF operates outside of Australia as well everyday of the year in conditions that never occur in Australia both in terms of weather and traffic volume.

Qantas's routes to New York and London are not small by any airlines standards

QF’s reputation is well deserved and achieved and not by luck..

You sound as though you may have worked for a former Australian airline and are still bitter….but to make a statement that QF has killed people is disgusting and repugnant.

[Keg]

But true lowerlobe. PNG, Mauritius, WWII, etc.

As to the CEO 'letting it out of the bag'; not on your nelly. I reckon you'll find that it was a very deliberate and very calculated shot across the bows. GD doesn't do things by half and he knows exactly the response this would have had in the pilot ranks! :yuk:

[engine out]

"I do not believe Australians have a monopoly to maintatin aircraft or fly aircraft or whatever."

This then should also translate into, Australian Companies should not have sole monopolistic rights to operate routes in and out of Australia, I wonder what Singapore Airlines think?

Personally I feel sorry for the engineers who do a good job and are being punished for working for a profitable company and working in Australia. The Mumbai basing for pilots is now certainly looking good.

One can only wonder if maintenance is shifted off-shore who will take the fall if things do not go according to plan.

JD is no fool (much as some wish he were). That was no slip in his quote, he wants pilots to know that if they do not tow the company line that the are indispensible. There are lots of very qualified people eager to fly Q jets for lower wages. It is a sign of the time that shareholders are more import than employees (unlike at SouthWest), and the face of the company is American. This trend towards alienating staff and passengers will surely backfire at some point, the only question now remains is when?

[jaded boiler]

Crossbleed, I don't think that we are in disagreement.

The point that I was employing a feeble attempt at sarcasm to make, was that the reputation that management use as a marketing tool is not directly attributable to them.

To trade on this reputation and then publicly belittle the contributions of the frontline staff who are responsible for it is reprehensible.

[lowerlobe]

KEG

As far as I know there were no fatalities in the incident in Mauritius and I don’t know what incident you are referring to in PNG but you cannot be serious to compare accidents and operations during war to accidents that occur during peacetime that result in fatalities.

[Animalclub]

KEG
As far as I know there were no fatalities in the incident in Mauritius and I don’t know what incident you are referring to in PNG but you cannot be serious to compare accidents and operations during war to accidents that occur during peacetime that result in fatalities.

Read "Wings of Gold" and the "Balus" trilogy... it's not incedents it's fatal accidents and in peace time. There is even a monument to a QF captain at one of the airstrips in PNG where he was killed.

[Crossbleed]

LL, a bit of sloppy syntax there on my part, open skies should have been followed by brackets (here in Oz). Very well aware of the routes of Rat, used to work for 'em. Bitter? Nope, right Seat of 744 in record time o/s.
The environment I was referring to was along the lines of Snow ,Ice, etc..30C to minus 30C in a day and all that, really horrible ATC in places (Yep, way worse than Chennai on HF) not to mention al the U/S bits on the A/C and cultural diffs/authority gradients, blah,blah, etc.
Yeah LHR and JFK are a long way:rolleyes: but, yawn..know what I mean?
I honestly believe any student of statistics and probability would say that inspite of the obvious quality of the throttle-monkeys at the rat, they (the airline) are a statistical anomoly, no more no less. Pride goeth before the fall, and all.
Back to topic,No we are not in disagreement vis-a-vis the original thread. Desk jockeys have no right to claim the mantle of overseers of the rat's rep.
:D :D :D

back to bar.

[1DC]

If everyone wants everything to be the same you will fold or get smaller because you won't be able to compete. You won't make a profit and then the shareholders will sell out.The government could buy you and protect you but that won't happen. If you want the wages to stay the same or increase you have to increase productivity, either by getting rid of restrictive practices(if you have any), working harder, or with less people. If you don't want the working practices to change then take less money. Taking less money is the last choice so it comes down to the working practices. The time for bitching about it or fighting it is only part of the downward spiral the solution is everyone working together to get the right compromise.
Easy for me to say cos i'm retired and enjoy my stays in Oz, but I have been through the reorganisation thing in the past.The last time, the boss told us all on friday night that the reorganisation taking place would not involve us, we were too valuable to the company. At midday on monday morning the rorganisers arrived with a vice president and an announcement was made that the reorganisation would start immediately and our boss would be taking early retirement.Six months later it was finished with 12% less people, the people who took early retirement/redundancy were happy with the payouts and the people with the jobs were enthusiatic to get back to work unhindered. A year later virtually everyone agreed that it had to be done and the workplace was a better place to be..
I come to Oz every year and while I think Qantas have a far superior product on shorthaul than their main competitor, on international i fly the competition because in economy your seat pitch is lousy and in business your prices are too high. Safety is important to me and i will not use every airline available between the uk and oz but choice is available and the Qantas safety card is not an advantage over the airlines I will choose.
The point I am trying to make is that your reorganisation has got to be done and if you all get involved for the good of the company it will probably turn out better than you think. (You are the company so it is for your own good).
In conclusion i noticed that your union man giving the press conference was a Jockistani, in my experience they usually cause more problems than they resolve, don't let them lead you on to a sinking ship.

[wing surfer]

dixson is talking on ABC tv on sunday talking about the weeks events might be of intrest

[Chimbu chuckles]

So 1DC where does it end?

At some point there is simply nothing left to cut out and the shareholders flee to higher returning investments...by which time the company is gutted and dysfunctional.

What next....Russian nationals with Oz licences based in an arc from west to NE one tech stop from Oz, living 10 to an apartment being paid AUD60K and Oz crews simply shuttling the aircraft to the cheap Russian aircrews?

Or QF aircraft registered in Indonesia or Ragheadistan and flown by anyone with a ATP issued in Baku?

This is the basic flaw in the 'free market economy'. Everything subporned to management and shareholder greed....humans reduced to 'unit cost centers'.

Everything goes in cycles...I think the Oz Govt and management class is going to, eventually, get a rude shock...this WILL blow up in their collective faces.

[Elroy Jettson]

Still wondering why Adam Air is in their sights? Its not because they want to monopolise the lowest yielding routes in South East Asia. :eek:

Qantas call centre, ticketing and IT to India, Engineering to China, crewing to Indo, why not? What's stopping them? GD tells us quite openly we have no god given rights to these jobs. Doesn't seem as far fetched anymore, does it? :yuk:

[Traffic]

Australian corporate executives rake in millions

By Barry Jobson and Terry Cook
26 January 2006

After months of wrangling, the Australian Industrial Relations Commission last year granted workers on the minimum wage a $A17.40 increase, bringing their pay up to the princely sum of $487.40 a week. Even though the increase was miniscule, big business organisations joined with the Howard government to insist that the “economy” could not afford it and to lecture workers on the need to exercise restraint.

No such standards apply, however, when it comes to the remunerations awarded to CEOs and leading executives of many of the same corporations. While workers and their families struggle every day to survive, Australia’s well-heeled executives rake in millions of dollars annually in salaries, share options, retention payments and a host of other lurks and perks.

In fact, most top executives are rewarded precisely for their ability to axe jobs and working conditions to boost profits and share values. In other words, their bulging salary packages and opulent life styles are the direct result of creating ever-increasing levels of hardship for working class families.

The Australian Financial Review’s seventh annual study of executive pay, published at the end of 2005, showed that the average remuneration for a top executive of a leading 300 company rose by nearly 20 percent to $1.9 million, up from $1.6 million in 2004.

The average base salary increased 6 percent to $686,000, or 13 times the average wage of a worker. But when bonuses, share options and other lucrative incentive payments are included, the figure jumps to 34 times the average worker’s wage. One in four of the CEOs received bonuses of more than $1 million.

At the top of the pyramid, construction and project developer Leighton’s chief executive Wal King received a package worth $12.8 million. He also collected deferred bonus payments for 1988 and 2000 as well as $7 million in interest, bringing his income up to $35 million. Paid as a wage, King would have received $246,000 a week, compared to the median weekly income of workers of just $660. Three of Leighton’s other senior executives were paid more than $1.5 million each in bonuses alone.

Macquarie Bank CEO Allan Moss received an increase of $5.8 million, bringing his total up to $18.5 million. Of this, $17 million was paid as bonuses. Macquarie Bank investment group chief Nicholas Moore’s package increased by $6.8 million to $18.2 million. The bank’s executive chairman David Clarke scored $9.2 million.

Investment and “financial engineering” firm Babcock and Brown CEO Phillip Green received $10.3 million, while retailing giant Woolworth’s Roger Corbett got $8.4 million. Burns Philip managing director Ted Degnan was paid $7.7 million and Lend Lease’s CEO Greg Clarke received $6.5 million.

Other banking chiefs also did well. Westpac’s David Morgan pulled in $7.4 million, ANZ CEO John McFarlane got $6.9 million, and the Commonwealth Bank of Australia’s former CEO David Murray made $5.4 million. National Australia Bank (NAB) chief John Stewart had just renewed his contract for an extra $500,000, bringing his package up to $6.43 million.

Significantly, these banks have eliminated many thousands of jobs in recent years. NAB is currently slashing 4,000 jobs from its global organisation.

Likewise, Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon received a package worth over $6.4 million. Last year, Qantas relocated cabin crew jobs overseas to reduce its wages bill and threatened the jobs of maintenance workers unless they made substantial concessions to cut costs.

Newly appointed Telstra CEO Sol Trugillo negotiated an annual base salary worth $3 million plus up to $10 million a year in “performance” bonuses. Trugillo has already announced he will axe 12,000 jobs.

Generous side benefits

While employers rail against workers’ claims for travelling allowances or shift penalties, there is no end of “fringe benefits” for company executives. Despite drawing enormous pay cheques, they insist on a whole range of extras.

Frank Lowy, chairman of multi-million dollar property firm Westfield, was entitled to 75 hours a year private use of the company’s aircraft, a perk worth $365,805. Even Qantas non-executive director James Packer obtained $4,775 worth of travel benefits. Packer has just inherited his billionaire father’s media empire. Kerry Packer left behind an estimated personal fortune of $7 billion.

Coles Myer executives got free tax planning while non-executive directors received $5,825 a year to cover home-office costs—almost a quarter of the minimum wage of $25,000 a year. Myer division head Dawn Roberson was entitled to three business-class return airfares to the US every year for herself and her dependents. Kmart chief Larry Davis was entitled to six business-class airfares annually. As a matter of course, top executives at Telstra enjoyed free internet services, line rental and mobile phones.

Most senior executives are provided with cars for personal use, with free petrol. However, for some, like Publishing and Broadcasting chief executive John Alexandra, the car comes with a driver. Along with other benefits, CSR chief Alex Brennan received $42,275 in “spouse travel expenses, accommodation and corporate hospitality”.

Burswood Casino CEO David Courtney received “complimentary privileges” at Crown and Burswood Casinos and annual return fares for himself and his family between Melbourne and Perth. Fosters directors got free tickets to entertainment and sporting events worth thousands of dollars, many enjoying the luxury of private boxes. To enhance the experience, they received large quantities of free wine, beer and other beverages.

Double standards also apply when it comes to severance pay. Retrenched workers are paid a pittance for years of service or robbed of their entitlements altogether when companies go bankrupt or relocate. Yet millions of dollars are given to departing senior executives, including many who presided over company failures. Many retiring executives are also retained as consultants on large retainers.

Departing Telstra CEO Ziggy Switkowski received a $5 million payout, plus shares worth $1.96 million, while NAB CEO Frank Cicutto received $14 million. CBA CEO David Murray’s golden handshake was worth $25 million, and Colonial First State CEO Chris Cuffe received $32 million.

Coles Myers chief Steven Cain got a payout worth $4.6 million after working for the company for just six months. Woolworths chief Roger Corbett will get a $3 million when he retires this year and a $3 million five-star consultancy deal with the company.

Some executives receive hefty retention payments—now dubbed “golden handcuffs”—to encourage them to stay on after their contract expires.

Publisher John Fairfax Holdings offered its chief operating officer Brian Evans $500,000 to stay around last year during the transition to a new CEO. Loyalty was in short supply it seems, because Evans declined the offer and became chief executive officer with publishers PMP.

Evans’s new company, which was engaged in restructuring its operations at the time, said it valued Evans for his experience in improving revenue growth at Fairfax through “cost reduction and restructuring”. Last June, he gave management at two Fairfax publications, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age, a week to come up with $50 million in cost savings.

One of the largest retention payments was to Wesfarmers former managing director Michael Chaney after his contract expired in 2002. The company handed him $2 million extra a year on top of his $6.1 million package to keep him there until June 2005.

Chaney, president of the Business Council of Australia and chairman of its employment and participation taskforce, is a strident supporter of Prime Minister John Howard’s new draconian industrial relations laws, which will be used to further dismantle workers’ wages, conditions and rights.

Last August Chaney told the media “increased deregulation of industrial relations means greater prosperity”. Given that Chaney defends the salaries paid to executives “as reflecting the world market,” it is not hard to fathom whose prosperity he is referring to.

The new laws include the establishment of a so-called Fair Pay Commission, staffed by government appointees and charged with holding down workers’ wages. The legislation will ensure that executive incomes grow even faster, at the expense of the jobs and

[1DC]

Chimbu Chuckles.I don't know where it will end. Qantas is a fine well respected company and will not chop its self to death deliberately.
Qantas may be doing well at the moment but to stay at the top end of the pack it has to keep up. Look around, the need for reorganisation is not unique to Qantas. Most of the major airlines are having to do it. BA are at it, Aer Lingus and Iberia have done it, Malaysian is starting. The ones that buried their heads in the sand have come to grief or are on the way, Swissair, Sabena, Alitalia ,Olympic to name a few.SAS is in the mire. Air France is probably playing the hidden subsidy game, that being the french way. The Americans have the dubious protection of Chapter 11, which gives them advantages over their competitors, otherwise they would be finished.To get out of bankruptcy they are having to reorganise. Mergers are happening for protection..
All the signs are there, to survive you have to do it.The best reorganisation is achieved when everyone cooperates and gets involved, that way everyone gets a bit more than they would if it is done through confrontation. Confrontation costs money, if ten million is lost through non cooperation it is just ten million to add to the list of savings that have to be made during the reorganisation..
Funnily enough it seems to me that the opportunities for expansion in the airline industry have never been higher but if your cost base is high you can't afford to do it.
I deliberately haven,t mentioned fuel because although it is probably the single biggest problem at the moment it is affecting everyone and isn't a problem for Qantas alone.
In conclusion, for all that I have said, I do believe that it will be boom time for all the survivors in a few years time..I think the choice and frequency for air travel will mean that the next generation will think nothing of travelling from one end of the earth to the other for leasure and business.
It won't be a case of where the bloody hell are you because we will be bloody well here..

[Chimbu chuckles]

Sorry 1DC but I have actually seen/experienced beancounters chopping a highly profitable company to death on the alter of economic theory...outsourcing as a matter of fact.

Take something that makes money (LOTS in the last case I experienced first hand as CP), make it look like it loses money and then try and outsource...result? Everyone out of work, company closed and then outsource provider doesn't provide.

And this was not some marginal little company run by morons...well they were morons but that is besides the point...it was a 200million ++/annum multinational.

It is exactly the sort of pain loyal employees should never have to experience...pointless pain!!!!

If you think the excesses of the post above can go on much longer without a BIG swing back to comprehensive union membership and crippling strike action I think you are mistaken...I think these IR laws will bite Howard and his CEO mates very badly.

[Turbo 5B]

Just to highlight previous posts points about slash and burn being a ceo's favourite money making tool, QF is closing Sydney 747 Heavy maintenance and relocating it to a labour hire staffed facility that is less efficient.
Reduces staff numbers by 480. No attempts were made to increase efficiency in anyway what so ever. There was no Lean Sigma exercises, no jetsmart implentation, no employee consultation on how to work better.
Just months and months of "if you guys don't perform your jobs will be gone".
Turns out that it wouldn't have mattered what our output was, we were gone anyway. Negotiations had been going on with Forstaff for ages. They negotiated a "flexible" roster which was recommended by the ALAEA (strangely enough) and took the jobs of highly skilled world class Qantas employees and gave them to a labour hire company with a high amount of immigrants on work visas.
All to the applause of the Federal government because they saved "the work from going overseas".
I can see Geoff's bonus already.

[QFinsider]

It is a scary feeling. I am glad I am not alone. I worry for the future or it. In a previous life I looked at the way a company operates. To analyse a company one conisdered all facets of the operation, the way the company core was structured. That was the trunk so to speak..... For the life of me I do not understand how engineering cannot be a core. After all an airline exists to fly people in their aircraft from A to B, safely and as close to schedule as possible....

What is left? Huge administration. Isn't it scary that the mainstream media makes no comment on the gutting of what Qantas is. All the slick marketing in the world won't replace the excellent reputation built up by engineering. No amount of slick marketing will cover up a loss of an airframe. Dixon likes to state we don't have a "monopoly on maintaining or flying aircraft safely"...Like with most things he is sadly out of touch...

Our passengers seem to think otherwise. As most experienced players in the industry know these things do save money short term but cost lives longer term:suspect:

[newsensation]

ninemsn.com.au/sunday

todays question "would you fly in a Qantas Aircraft maintained in China?"

have your vote....

[Tony Soprano]

Has Dixon let another cat out of the bag?

Too right he has. Somewhere in these posts he is quoted as saying something to the effect of, "we would have to vacate anyway".

So not only is Sydney HM going, so is the entire QF infrastructure.

Take a look at the Sydney Airport Masterplan. No QF Jetbase. At All.

And is it just coincidence that the Jet Base sign was missing from the main
gate acouple of days ago. Hmmmmmm.

Ciao.

[ys120fz]

lower lobe and keg, I'm not getting involved in peacetime vs wartime accidents etc., but I believe QF did have fatalitites in a flying boat crash on Sydney Harbour many years back, with none other than Capt Brain at the controls.

None in the Mauritius Super Constellation crash though, sorry, incident just as BGK was an incident not an accident.

Good tabling of exec incomes Traffic, obscene as it is. How's Tokyo in mid March?

[Animalclub]

ys120fz I'll say it again...

Read "Wings of Gold" and the "Balus" trilogy... it's not incedents it's fatal accidents and in peace time. There is even a monument to a QF captain at one of the airstrips in PNG where he was killed.

[Redstone]

This is very much toungue in cheek..... or is it art immitating life.



CEO given massive bonus
Wednesday, 08 March 2006

The head of a key technology business was granted a massive bonus yesterday to recognise his performance in not running the company into the ground. TechnoCorp CEO Warren Blair was rewarded by the board for his “world’s best practice” leadership after not quite driving the company into receivership over the past 12 months.

Image
Blair... a truly world-class screw-up
Blair's bonus is valued at $1.4 million, or 25 per cent of his base pay. On top of this amount, Blair can also expect a 5 per cent Bonus Delivery Bonus. The swag of options he has taken up in the company are also expected to be worth an extra $560,000 after the Techno Corp share price rose 4 cents last week after the market rewarded Blair’s daring, highly original strategy for FY06/07, when he plans to sack most of the workforce and selling key assets in a fire sale to pay creditors.

TechnoCorp Chairman Ryan Kumar explained that to attract business leaders who have a truly world-class ability to maximise the short-term share price while endangering the company’s long-term stability, Technocorp needed to offer them salary packages that are also world-class. “It’s all about global standards, and we really have to splash out to keep in touch with the US on this,” Kumar said.

Kumar said that Blair is also being rewarded for meeting his other stringent performance targets, such as only decreasing market share by 30 per cent and not getting caught paying any kickbacks to Saddam Hussein.

The Chairman denied claims that the board had been too generous to Blair in light of the company’s lacklustre revenue performance. "Let's not forget that these payments are not guaranteed – they’re an incentive. Blair would certainly have missed out on this bonus if he had been even more incompetent,” Kumar said.

“I mean, he would still have received it, but it would certainly have had to be renamed. Maybe something like an Annual Incentivisation Payment or an Executive Remuneration Continuation Bonus."

Kumar and the rest of the TechnoCorp Board will also be receiving a huge bonus for awarding the CEO such an enormous bonus. “Many people have alleged that our tied bonus system leads to inadequate supervision and a conflict of interest, but fortunately they were only shareholders,” he said.

Blair said he was pleased with his income over the previous financial year, but felt it could be still improved. “I’d like to see myself taking home in excess of $10 million next year, and the best way to do that is perform so badly that the Board has to sack me and give me a huge termination bonus,” Blair said. “For a CEO, that’s where the real money is.”

Comments

[relax737]

newsensation, what nobody has said yet is that the mainten ance facilities in China are manufacturer approved. They are using Chinese workers and that's the only difference between having the majors done there or here, or NZ, or anywhere.
Something else nobody has mentioned is that aircraft are built my 98% unskilled labour. It only needs to be signed off by a licensesd engineer.

I bet much of the maintenacne at Qantas is currently done by unlicensed engineers. They may be LAME's, but not all would have done specialist type training, e.g., engines, airframes, radios, etc. Provided it 's signed off by a licensed engineer that['s all that matters.
If these factors are brought intothe argument, the public' s view may be influenced.

[relax737]

Chimbu from the last post on the previous page. I agree with you, but that won't stop their march down that path.
Managements seem to learnnothing from past experience.


Let's just hope that the pilots have.

[Fliegenmong]

Chimbu I really hope you are right I would so dearly love to see howard in particular, but all of his cronies bitten badly by this - but we are a collectively pretty stupid nation aren't we, I mean who could fall for "Interest rates will rise under a Labour gov." - The reserve bank of Aus cleared out of Canberra to Syd for fecks sake to distance itself from the pollies - sure some gov policies may cause an interest rate rise, but to have the gaul to come out with such ridiculous blanket statements (AWB Fiasco is another) I mean you really have to beleive that the people you're speaking to have (Aust public) no minds, and it is the pure contempt of we the taxpayer that is really very saddening.........so yes to see it blow up in their faces.............we'll be better off under new IR laws, well I was going to be better off under a GST and I'm not. :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Chimbu chuckles]

fliegenmong....yup, the average Oz voter is pretty dumb...just look at the dumbing down of TV to see where the average intellect is going.

And make no mistake...Govt know this...they spend a LOT of tax payer money on experts that tell them exactly how the 'electorate' will react short, medium and long term....long term being the next election...and exactly how to negate any problems and 'steer' the electorate towards the desired democratic outcome.

But I believe, and hope, that the excesses we are experiencing will re unify the work force. For how long will the average worker be asleep to the rhetoric which states that it's ok for managment and Pollies to get HUGE pay rises while at the same time anymore than 3% over 3 years (way less than real inflation) for everyone else will bring the economy to it's knees?

[relax737]

CC, huge payrises for pollies have been going for ever; notso long for business heads. So far the workers haven't even whimpered over it, but i haope they will in the future.

Regarding your assessment of the average elector, you 're right on, andwhat a DH he is. And don 't you love the pollies when being questioned about voter opinion/backlash etc. They actually say, with a straight face "the average voter is much more intelligent than we give them credit for". Well that's a heap of bull$hit. The average voter is a grossly stupid individual.

And the TV shows are a good indication of the intellect of joe average.

[Turbo 5B]

I think that you should have to pass a political aptitude test before being allowed to enroll to vote.

[capt.cynical]

:)
Relax 737; At last, a good honest piece of "Political Incorrectness" please keep up the good work.

[K9P]

fliegenmong, I totally agree, and may I add it was the same when we were told that when banking was deregulated it would be better for all of us (i.e. all of us with bank shares LOL).