China Airlines Interview

[artax]

Hello
I've just been offered an interview with China Airlines in Taiwan.
Anybody got any info on what the interview consists of?
cheers

[flovancouver]

Hello,

I have been scheduled for the phone interview, but no idea what it is about...anybody with any info would be much appreciated....;)

Thanks,
Flo

[artax]

The phone interview is very basic. You will be asked about your experience, just covering the details on the application form, and a bit of a chat about you and why you want to work for China Airlines.
All very relaxed.

If anybody has any info on the interview in Taipei, I'd really appreciate it.

[b747heavy]

Thanks artax,

I also have the telephone interview in about an hour :uhoh: ...I was wondering what it was all about...we'll see ;)

Cheers,

B747heavy :ok:

[AAIGUY]

B747Heavy,

I think you'll find only disappointment and heart ache at CAL.
Best wait for the fuzzy red worm

[b747heavy]

Ahh yes...the fuzzy red worm :hmm:

Did the telephone interview, nothing difficult, several questions...

...waiting for the worm :cool: :E

[artax]

OK you've lost me...what is the fuzzy red worm?
And why the heartache?

[HEG]

Hey guys
What did you do to get as far as the phone interview? I have applied a couple of times during the last 6 month, but no reaction whatsoever...
Any idea what their requirements are? :confused:

[flovancouver]

HEG,

Not sure on their requirements as they change them upon their needs...

I applied on the site then 5 days later received the email for the phone interview...I do have an internal reference from a local guy there..

wandering now what the interview in TPE is about...i know there is a medical and Sim...just what else?

Anybody know?:sad: :ok:

[mellofello]

I would not be too worried about the interview process at CAL, it is pretty straightforward. If you have done interviews before then CAL is no different. You will be interviewed by at least 5 people consisiting of mgmt pilots, possibly a senior mgmt person and perhaps the Company Psychologist too!
The sim eval is where you have to "shine" in otherwords, demonstrate that you can fly and take "instruction". The medical is 11/2 days and they will check everything.
Much has been said about CAL on this forum and I would have to say that the sentiments shared by the majority are fairly accurate. It really is what you make of it - some like it :confused: Personally if you love flying and a career in aviation then you are best to look elsewhere!

[artax]

I do love flying.

I have read the negative sentiments, and they're a bit worrying, but can someone elucidate a bit?

China Airlines seem to have nice aeroplanes and interesting routes, the pay seems ok, Taipei seems interesting....

So I know I'm being naive, but's what's the catch?

I'm very interested to hear: I'd hate to make a big silly mistake, especially as I've got a good job already.

[mellofello]

All you can do is go to the interview and assessment, as I said, it is what you make of it but if you are happy where you are most will tell you not to leave.

As for the money, well that depends on your definition of not bad. Most of the expats are starting to leave and even some of the locals too... There is more money to be had elsewhere (mainland China).

[falcon330]

stay away from taiwan as much as you can, if you love your flying career , checks are crazy so are the medicals, only worth there are the chicks, and they also not easy to find, or they are he he, All you can do is go to the interview and assessment, as I said, it is what you make of it but if you are happy where you are most will tell you not to leave.

As for the money, well that depends on your definition of not bad. Most of the expats are starting to leave and even some of the locals too... There is more money to be had elsewhere (mainland China).

[skytango1]

mellofello////falcon330

Hi there.Heard lots of "BAAADDDD""DISTURBING talk about working for those asian carriers in taiwan.Is it true they are 'RA!@#$T??Especially management when it come to recruitment and training?????/...//

skytango1

[cityshuttle737]

Hallo,
I just wanted to bring up the thread again.I had the phone interview and just got an invitation.Maybe somebody could help with information regarding the interview,medical and the ATP quiz? I´m reviewing questions from the FAA ATP Database at the moment.Is this what to expect?
Also heard that a lot of people fail the medical.Anybody knows the reasons for that?
Also it would be great to get in touch with pilots flying presently for CAL,to hear from that source what it is about to work for that company.
I´m aware that many people talk bad about this company,but people talk also bad about other companys which I would rate as very good jobs compared to fly for an european LCC which is my job at the moment....
Thank´s in advance!

[R.Cruizo]

I heard now they're only looking at people with Jet time ( ie no longer turbo-prop).

Any comments?

[mellofello]

Probably a result of the exodus that seems to be taking place.

[wingmaaan]

...got email for phone-interview and have nil jet-hours...:}

[Start4&3]

Checking is really crazy in Taiwan because CAL killed so many people in the past. :mad:

[johntrav69]

What? There is absolutely nothing wrong with it here!!!!!

Oh I just realised I'm on home leave.

Haha.

[NZLeardriver]

What is your experience Wingmaaan?

[wingmaaan]

4000hrs tt on turboprop and a european cpl:{

[R.Cruizo]

Congratulations Wingmaaan and good luck with the recruitment process. It gives all of us Non- jet rated guys a bit of hope.

[AQFlyer]

I was just invited to interview a few days ago and they have apparently introduced a $13,000 USD training bond. If you stay at least 3 years of the 5 year contract they will pay you back. Here is a copy of the email CAL sent.
I would like to advise you regarding our Terms & Condition and the salary
that we could offer below
before you join the interview of China Airlines.
* Bank Guarantee: USD13,000 (CITI bank)
- The money has to be deposited into CITI bank before you attend the
training course of
China Airlines and will return to you when you finish 3 years
training bond
- If not, we will withdraw your application.
* Salary: USD5,335
(See attached file: 2004Terms and Conditions III.doc)
Hopefully above information will give you some ideas about China Airline.
Only If you agree with above and we will send you the interview slot asap.
If there's any question before you attend the interview,please feel free
to contact with me anytime.
Or we will consider you are fully awared reagrading our Bank guarantee
system .
All the expenses (accomodation/ ticket)shall be on your account , if
there's any reason stoping
the interview process from your side while you are already in TPE.
Thank you for your attention to this matter and look forward to contacting
you in the near future!!

I have 5000 hours, 3000 of which is 737NG time. It took about 1 year for me to get an interview. My friend recently interviewed and said it was very involved but not much that you could prepare for. It sounds like fun but the pay is just too low. I made as much my second year as a 737NG F/O! Good luck!

[b747heavy]

AQFlyer,

I received the same email a couple of days ago, however the bond was $16,000??? I did notice that there were only two recipients of my email. This leads me to believe that depending on your experience level, the bond is altered to suit?

I have 4000 total with 2100 on the 747 Classic.

Cheers,

Heavy :ok:

[AQFlyer]

Hey Heavy,

My buddy who went to the interview has 6000 hours and was not asked for a training bond. Either that's the cutoff or guys aren't sticking around for some reason and they are trying to stop the bleeding. :confused: He said that they do a lot of psych, memory and multi-tasking types of testing but that otherwise it was not a technical interview. The medical was very intense.

I think CAL is a lot more stable than the US airlines but I have things just a little too cushy at the moment to take off for Taiwan. I think it would be an adventure and if I could take a leave from my current job, I might go do it for a couple of years. The bond puts the kabosh on that idea though. What are you going to do?

[IronWalt]

Where can you find pay rates for these guys?

[AQFlyer]

As far as I know they don't post pay rates, they only tell you what they are when they are going to interview you. The most common rate for an experienced F/O is USD $5335 per month with a yearly bonus of one months base salary. However, my friend who interviewed recently said that the guy who interviewed with him, who was less experienced, was offered a lower monthly salary. Sounds like it is fairly subjective and there is no set rate.

[artax]

I have spoken to a couple of experienced 744 captains who went there and left within a couple of weeks. It sounds like a pretty uncomfortable place to work and I'm no longer sure that the interview is worth the trip. Anybody on this thread actually at CA and can shed some light?

[AQFlyer]

I also spoke to a CAL Captain who left prior to completing training. He told me that Captains are not wanted there by other pilots because they feel that Taiwanese jobs are being taken. However, he said F/O's are treated differently because they don't ever have to upgrade you. They will bypass you for one of their own so the attitude about taking jobs is different. Very few expatriate F/O's get upgraded. If that doesn't bother you, and your satisfied with the pay, it's probably a pretty good place to work. There is no seniority for schedules so you don't have to start at the bottom which is nice. The equipment and routes are great. And...the women are beautiful! :ok:

[IronWalt]

Hmmm Is there a contract??

[29chev]

I was with CAL for about 18 months as an F/O ...Expat F/O's are treated like crap well actually so are the Expat Capts but at least as a Capt you can run your ship your way... very difficult working enviroment culturally speaking, it's very easy to tell the locals (most anyway but not all) really don't want you there and although most know the book very well they can't fly worth crap, go only if you really need a job,.. if your working elsewhere don't go,... the pay isn't anywhere near high enough to put up with the crap they dish out before you ask I was getting 5200/month plus 75/hour over 70 hours plus 1000/month houseing and $2/hour away from base ...ITS NOT WORTH IT

[744driver]

Totally agree with chev29. I am also an Expat FO at CAL and its miserable. guys you don’t want to join CAL unless you have absolutely nothing else. The bottom line is they will never upgrade you and you don’t want to be living in Taipei, it’s a dump. You are not welcome. So why spend years accumulating seniority somewhere where its useless leave as fast as possible or don’t join!! :yuk:

[etops777]

Totally agree with chev29. I am also an Expat FO at CAL and its miserable. guys you don’t want to join CAL unless you have absolutely nothing else. The bottom line is they will never upgrade you and you don’t want to be living in Taipei, it’s a dump. You are not welcome. So why spend years accumulating seniority somewhere where its useless leave as fast as possible or don’t join!! :yuk:

I think if you don't like it you can leave!!
Taipei is not a dump, I can think of many places worst then TPE. Your attitude says it all........and Maybe you were not like in your own country.

Sorry dude

[St. Giles]

Totally agree with etops777. Fact is every organisation has its own working culture. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to stay, and I am sure CAL will not have any problem finding your replacement. Don't ever bite the hand that feeds you, be grateful.

However what promped me the most to post this reply is the fact you openly critised a place/country, calling TPE is a dump. Don't forget you are a guest in Taiwan. Just in case if you are stuck with the bonding agreement with CAL, enjoy yourselve there, have a good time. Fact is every country has its positive and negative sides to it. I advise you not to waste your time looking at negative points Taiwan has, but rather spending your time to explore and understand the positive sides this country can offer.

[29chev]

St. Giles
You ever been to TPE?:rolleyes: ...Also I never bit any hands but I was happy to get my hand back with only small teeth marks....:}
and I am sure CAL will not have any problem finding your replacement.
Wellllll that would explain the non stop interviewing they do with little or no expansion...expat F/O's last between 2 weeks and 18 months at CAL before they say "Truck it" I'm outa here
I know I know your talking about bad mouthing TPE not CAL ...and your right not everything was bad......I met a lot of great expats all trying to leave...LOL

[wingmaaan]

well well well,

i had the phone-interview today, was very nice talking to the guy on the other side...now i have to wait,do i get invited or not...it´s time for a change,´ve been on the turboprop long enough!:suspect:

Congratulations Wingmaaan and good luck with the recruitment process. It gives all of us Non- jet rated guys a bit of hope.

[MONK]

Hi wingmaaan

Just wondering.....what did they ask you during the phone interview?

[SIC]

I feel I have to put my two bits here after all this.

Firstly CAL is not nearly as bad as many guys make it out to be. In the last few years the company has come a long way as far as cockpit culture goes. There are a lot of younger Taiwanese guys that are now captains who did not learn to fly in the military (normally the states or Australia) and as a result speak good english and have good CRM. Sure some old dragons still lurk around but overall once you are through the training the line flying is not too bad.

Secondly you must realize that if you go there as a first officer that is all you will be - so use it as an opportunity to get big jet international experience. Many guys here come of DC9, MD 80 etc and CAL is the place where they move into the big jet league. This is a career step upwards which mostly Canadians dont seem to appreciate cause they generally bitch the most - and forget that back home in Canada some companies even make the pilots clean up the cabin after a flight in some small turboprop from one frozen wasteland to another and then pay them CA 2500$ a month.
I'd much rather fly a brand new 400 around the world thanks. Even if the captain occasionally turn out to be a prick.

As an expat FO there I and many others see this for what it is and so should you. It is not a career company, but a stepping stone.

Who else is gonna give a turboprop pilot or even a low time jet guy the chance to fly a 747??

The fact that the salaries offered now are less than before and the bond you actually have to deposit as opposed to just signing for it is not great and that is for you to decide...

Taiwan might in some ways still be semi 3rd world. But if you have an open mind and are easy going you will have a good time here. The locals like to party and the girls are friendly..

[wingmaaan]

,

hi there, the guys name was joseph and he spoke a very good english,he asked me questions such as:


-where did you hear about the positions at CAL ? (internet,friends,...)
-why do you want to work for CAL ? ( long-haul-flights,...)
-tell me about your flying-career to date ( everything about your education)
-does your company have jets ?
-are you familiar with an FMS?
-where do you mainly fly ? in my case it is europe
-what type-ratings do you have ?
-tell me about your strength as a pilot (characterise yourself)
-in case you have a function as a trainee, explain these functions, what exactely do you do..?

that was about it,..he then told me that there is a certain seniority,such as heavy jet-hours, jet-hours, and then turboprop and that he can´t tell me jet ,if and when I´ll be invited. He´ll put my phone-call innformation to my files and then they will decide...

hope i could help you...;)




@Hi wingmaaan
Just wondering.....what did they ask you during the phone interview?

[MONK]

Thanks Wingmaaan......all the best for you...hope you make it there!!!....and whatever you do.....have fun!!!

[Deske1]

"Secondly you must realize that if you go there as a first officer that is all you will be"



So it would be nice to announce at the interview.I have read somewhere:

The canditade is going to be dismissed in case of misleading the Company bla,bla,bla.......

I think it is quite fair,if this things works vice-versa.....at least this is my opinion.

[MacFly16]

@Wingman

I would really appreciate, if You gave me some information about the interview and the sim screening after finishing it. I heard that they screen You on B737 or B747 depending on sim availability. I have appllied for FO Position there about 4 weeks ago and I have simlar experience status ( 4500 hrs turboprop! ) ! Thanx for any help!

[pitotman]

SIC,

Me thinks your two bits worth has been in to many of the local girls and that is starting to affect your judgment! ;)

"There are a lot of younger Taiwanese guys that are now captains who did not learn to fly in the military (normally the states or Australia) and as a result speak good English and have good CRM."

If you consider getting into the left seat of a 744 with 4000hrs TT of which all of it is on the same aircraft flying ILS to ILS while spending 1/2 of that time sleeping in the bunk then have fun sleeping on your crew rest brutha! Heh but I am sure you probably purchased your command from Jetsgo!

"Sure some old dragons still lurk around but overall once you are through the training the line flying is not too bad"

I never had a problem flying the line with anyone at CAL except once. But the problem is not the line! It is the amount of hours being pushed on crews! The real problem in CAL lies in the training department! (LACK OF TRAINING DEPARTMENT)

This is a career step upwards which mostly Canadians don’t seem to appreciate cause they generally bitch the most - and forget that back home in Canada some companies even make the pilots clean up the cabin after a flight in some small turboprop from one frozen wasteland to another and then pay them CA 2500$ a month.

Funny I spent the better part of 7 years in Canadian aviation.......I would gladly fly a Beech 1900D over a CAL 744. Just for the record I made about 60,000 a year in Canada flying a turbo-prop and that is not far off what most of you clowns signed on for at CAL. Remember I know exactly what you make on the 744 and yes you only pay 20% tax but the bottom line is you’re selling yourself to fly a 744 which is the largest reason that Airline pilots wages are in the dumper! Do not try to justify the selling of your own worth because of what goes on in Canada. Canadian pilots are generally some of the most sought after contract pilots in the world. We are among the most professional, culturally diverse, and highly adaptable drivers around…..Don’t you forget that!

"I'd much rather fly a brand new 400 around the world thanks. Even if the captain occasionally turn out to be a prick"

Again you sell yourself for about 40% of what your seat commands at a real airline.

"As an expat FO there I and many others see this for what it is and so should you. It is not a career company, but a stepping stone"

The only statement you wrote that I have to agree with.......get your time and get out before someone gets hurt!

"Taiwan might in some ways still be semi 3rd world. But if you have an open mind and are easy going you will have a good time here. The locals like to party and the girls are friendly.."


Taiwan is no where near third world! Next home leave you should get on a plane and travel to a third world country before you make such a loose statement. Taipei is a typical industrial Asian city. I liked Taipei and I generally enjoyed working with the people at CAL. However, unlike a lot of the expat’s working there, when the first time CAL lied to me about my Cruise Command it became apparent that I had gambled and lost. I decided to quit and move on! So I did!!!

I was Chev29 roommate in Taipei and we generally enjoyed our time there..........however like he stated. If you have a job and you are making a decent wage then steer the course as flying a 737 for a reputable company ANYWHERE is better that flying a 744 for CAL. If you are flying a large turbo prop and you enjoy your job I would stay as well! The 744 is a great airplane but it is just that.........an airplane! What is much more important in your life and your happiness!

[SIC]

Hey Pitotman

Firstly I am not a Canadian and my little mention of them bitchin was partly tongue in cheek. I trained in a class full of Jetsgo victims and they had very little good to say about current Canadian situation.
Secondly am married so unfortunately not able to take advantage of all the friendly girls..

BUT THE POINT I MADE IS: There are alot of foreign co pilots here that get the chance to fly a jumbo and build up some very valuable experience they would otherwise have had to wait for for many years. These guys join CAL with 3000 or so total time, only a few hundred on jets, at the age of 26 to 32 or so and they will never look back. For them - and that includes me - you are wrong in your argument about quality of life, selling yourself for an aircraft type and working for too little money.
Unlike you who got hired (with a lot of experience) as a cruise captain. You guys did get the short end of the stick and you have my sympathy. Us younger lesser experienced guys are here for different reasons. We realize CAL will not be our career - but a big help along the way. Never again can anybody in an interview go on about my lack of twin or multi engine,jet,wide body,glass,international,auto speedbrake,sleep in the bunk, long haul or what have you time.

Hope you moved on to something better - we all will.:ok:

( oh and by the way I did contract in AFRICA and Afghanistan so know all about the third world - did'nt see too many Canadians there.)

[fliion]

Pitot,

Emirates/Cathay/Etihad/JALways/SIACargo/NCA/GulfAir/Qatar/SriLankan/Eva/Jade/etc,etc...

...will all take a second look at you with heavy glass time v. polar prop time...(I am not recommending all of them however)

Chill out man - CI is what you make of your TEMPORARY stay.

To the guys out there that get it, don't listen to a person who tells you to hold the line on behalf of the profession - do everything to reach your objective because no one will join you in sticking your finger in the hole in the dyke.

fliion

[jajyay]

Just need to say one thing : Tapei is not a dump as i read before, this kind of statement is absolutely ridiculous.

[Deske1]

It is not,but cant compare to Singapore.
However just finished my 5 sector long duty without any PF landing as it is usual here in case the others are locals.....

[jajyay]

Deske1, can you give us more details ? that sounds kind of weird what you say, i'm not so sure to understand

[MONK]

Has anyone been to Taipei for interviews?......

wingmaaan.....have you heard anything about your application?

[wingmaaan]

well,
still no invitation after my phone-interview...but waiting...they said that there´s a seniority-list considering the invitations, priority will be given to all those who have heavy jet-hours, then jet-hours and then,at the very end, prop-hours...guess that says it all...:{...prop-riders, be patient!

our time will come...:E

@Wingman

I would really appreciate, if You gave me some information about the interview and the sim screening after finishing it. I heard that they screen You on B737 or B747 depending on sim availability. I have appllied for FO Position there about 4 weeks ago and I have simlar experience status ( 4500 hrs turboprop! ) ! Thanx for any help!

[Latif_Strikes_Back]

Seems like that 20 000kg+ is the killer here...

[MacFly16]

Hey wingmaaaan!

I hope You will get an invitation with China Airlines. At the moment I still didn´t even get a phone interview. Do You have turboprop hours on 20+kg aircrafts? It seems to me they prefer a jet pilot with a hundred hours than a turboprop pilot with 2000. I don´t have a clue why this is.

Good Luck to You !!!

[bluepacific]

"I don´t have a clue why this is." If you can't work it out you have problems my friend. :8
BP

[MacFly16]

Hi, bluepacific!

Please tell me what kind of problems I have. I really wanna know. It´s that clear to me that airlines prefer pilots with hours ON TYPE.
But if You have pilots with no company-wanted type-rating, it is not comprehensible why just a fractional amount of jet hours outrival turboprop hours.
I think turboprop pilots are well underestimated , aren´t they!?

[bluepacific]

Mate, if you can't work out the fact that jet time is better than turbo prop time then there is something wrong. Anyway, if you didn't think that you wouldn't be chasing a jet job.
Of course it would depend on an individual basis, and alot of variables.
:rolleyes:
BP

[MacFly16]

Hi, bluepacific!

Now, You are at one with me in that. You are fully right jet time is more precious than turboprop time. I never said something else.

"Of course it would depend on an individual basis, and alot of variables."

I guess that´s my point. Surely it depends on the single case and many different factors. In my posting I just wanted to point out that the measures of evaluation between jet time and turboprop time are not quite fair. There are some discrepancies between estimating the individual jet and turboprop experience levels. I hope to have made my attitude clearer to You. What do You think about it?:ok:

[turbolager]

Mac, who ever promised you airline recruitment would be "fair"? It's their trainset, they can play with it however they like. Sadly, at most airlines, that means many guys/girls who could do a great job will never even get an interview. I'm in the same boat! C'est la vie. best learn to deal with it and move on :ok:

[bluepacific]

Hey,
At least we agree, I fly with some F/O's with heaps of hours, more than ample quality turboprop time (6000 pic ATR ) but some struggle and some fit in quite well, this is where it is should be based on an individual basis, but as turbolarger correctly put it, its their train set.
Cheers.:ok:
BP

[MacFly16]

Hey, turbolager! Hey, bluepacific!

There is nothing to add to Your lines. Both of You are absolutely right.

"Sadly, at most airlines, that means many guys/girls who could do a great job will never even get an interview."

Well, unfortunately the job market enables airlines to request any applicant requirements, they wanna have. It´s just a fact.:{

"I fly with some F/O's with heaps of hours, more than ample quality turboprop time (6000 pic ATR ) but some struggle and some fit in quite well, "

As we already said, it strongly depends on the individual basis. Some fit in, some don´t. Among many other factors age is one of the more affecting factors, I guess! :ok:

[MONK]

Does anyone know what sort of questions are being asked during interviews in Taipei?

[granchalek]

So what are the chances of someone with 4000hrs and 1000 PIC in a CRJ with a type. Do you think they would look at someone like me?

[fliion]

So what are the chances of someone with 4000hrs and 1000 PIC in a CRJ with a type. Do you think they would look at someone like me?
Yes

fliion

[wingmaaan]

[@MacFly16

hi mate,

no invitation yet,and yes, i do have appr.4000hrs turbo-prop above 20t. still waiting..

quote=MacFly16]Hey wingmaaaan!

I hope You will get an invitation with China Airlines. At the moment I still didn´t even get a phone interview. Do You have turboprop hours on 20+kg aircrafts? It seems to me they prefer a jet pilot with a hundred hours than a turboprop pilot with 2000. I don´t have a clue why this is.

Good Luck to You !!![/quote]

[SIC]

CAL just took somewher between 20 and 35 new co jo's from Swiss on some deal where Swiss pays CAL to give these guys ajob as part of their severance package from Swiss. ( Swiss aparently having finally figured out running a major airline form a country the size of my lawn is not goin to work and now reducing pilot numbers ) These guys are all doing something akin to an ab initio at CAL cause - get this - thay have NO JET TIME. As I said before only CAL will give a guy off a prop job a right seat on the jumbo.

Thats the good news for you prop drivers - the bad news is that it might be a few months before they hire again since they have to train the swiss force first...

[MacFly16]

Hi, Wingmaaan!

I assume it´s quite normal not to get an invitation, immediately. According to my information You might be even waiting a couple of weeks. Don´t get discouraged and be patient! I´ll keep my fingers crossed for You. I am looking forward to having a couple of beers with You in TPE.:D

Good Luck!!:ok:

[wingmaaan]

yup,
that sure sounds good,the thing with the beers...:}...tell me if something new happens...when i had the phone-interview, i was asked that typical question,"where did you hear about cal", and i heard about cal from a friend of mine who was there from swiss air.this is what i told the guy from cal on the phone and then he told me that the deal cal made with the swiss turboprop pilots is a very special deal which does not concern the other turbo-prop riders. whatever that is supposed to mean...:confused:

on the other hand, they new that i´m a prop-driver who did not work for swiss,and still got a phone interview, so i would say -yes- , we do have a chance to get invited.

servus

[MacFly16]

@Wingmaaan

I´ll tell You as soon as I have news concerning the phone interview. I hope to get one. I really do. I heard from their desperate search for pilots from a friend, too. Well, how desperate might it be?
Anyway, they are aware of You having turboprop hours and so I am sure they will invite prop dirvers, too. Otherwise they wouldn´t have called you. According to my information none of the Swiss pilots are gonna make 738, all are destined for 747. This might be a big step, but a real challenge, I guess.:ok:
As You surely know they changed their ads from "jet required" to "jet preferrable" a couple of months ago. Well, there is a reason for, isn´t it???

Could You give me a short summary of what he was asking You? Thank You very much!!!

Hope, we´re getting in there ( u know , beers are waiting for us, mate!!!!! ):D :D :D

[International Trader]

I would not pay too much attention to every word that appears in a adv.Their English is not the best.
This is the second time that they are trying some bulk pilot deal.Last time it was a group of MEA copilots that MEA would train as captains and that would then come to CAL as DECs.The Swiss would be certainly no worse than their own cadets.
All a money game.

[R.Cruizo]

Good Luck wingmaan& MacFly16 !!

I also have only Turbo-prop time ( 5000 +), so far I've heard nothing from them.

If they're supposedly that short of crews then hopefully we will all get a shot at it.

Cheers guys

RC

[wingmaaan]

@ macfly16

check my note #40, i listed a summary of my phone-interview before,hope it helps you .
not sure if i should ring them up again and ask how we will proceed..

[MacFly16]

@Wingmaaan

Sorry, man I just overlooked Your information, You were posting here already. Thanks a lot! In case I get the phone interview I will also post my experience. Hope it´s gonna happen soon.

@R. Cruizo

That´s what I´m saying. When they´re really that short of crews, they should give the prop drivers a chance, too. Well, they will.

[MacFly16]

Hi, all!

I had the phone interview with Mr. Lee last week. It was a real nice talk with him. It was running exactly the same way like Wingmaaan already posted in quote 40. If You have any further questions, please post it here.

In my opinion it is improbable to fail that interview. I think they just wanna check, if You are able to talk in English. That´s just my guess, but I think it´s quite the way it goes.

Good luck to all!!!:ok:

[safelife]

Sorry but no way prop drivers will be considered. Reason being zero flight time training. The CAA won't permit that without jet experience. CAL is already at the lowest limit they can ever get.
Others require 2500 hrs with some good experience >45t jet.
The price for patterns with a 747-400 are about 90,000 US$ so if you want to pay yourself, go ahead...

McFly16: you promised to post your experience after the phone interview. Due now! :D

[thehatlesspilot]

Interview is more on personal questions, no technical questions. They make you feel very welcome. But once you're in and the training starts, well its a totally different story. If you have a job at the moment its very risky, many people drop out of training, not because they are substandard pilots but because of the training policy. If you've been out of a job for a long long time, then you can consider CAL, and while training continue to look for a job and try to go on interviews, this can be done as you can already file for emergency leave. See how it goes at least you have salary coming in and if you hate the training and another option presents itself then just resign dont finish the training you dont have to pay anything.

[wingmaaan]

macfly16,

well done. what did they tell you about how they will proceed after your interview??

[MacFly16]

@Wingmaaan

I got the same information like You. He will give it to the next training commission or stuff like that and they will decide accordingly. I openly asked him, if I will get an invitation and he just told me, that this will finally depend on the training commission.
I guess that we don´t get an invitation as long as they have enough applications from jet pilots. That´s what it sounds like to me.

@safelife

I felt it as a very pleasant talk with Mr. Lee. There are almost no trick questions, I guess. He really asked me near the same questions that were posted by Wingmaaan. I post the ones he asked me here again.

-where did you hear about the positions at CAL ?
A friend of mine
-Describe Your childhood!
growing up in a sound surrounding field. Spending a lots of time with my friends. Having a very good relationship to my parents caused by comfortable childhood. (Well, that was a question I was not well-prepared. Maybe You guys can see that according to my answer.:))
-why do you want to work for CAL ?
New enviroment, to to get to know a new culture, new challenge
-tell me about your flying-career to date ( everything about your education)
I think, everybody sould be able to tell something about his flight training
-does your company have jets ?
Nope
-are you familiar with an FMS?
Yes, I am. I told him about the settings of flight plans and performance data that You can enter to.
-where do you mainly fly ? What are Your average distances on Your aircraft type?
Europe, 1-2 hrs and about 300-600 nm
-tell me about your strength as a pilot (characterise yourself)
for example flexible, good CRM skills, working precisely, reliable...things like that!

Somehow or other I got the feeling that it was important being able to answer fluently and to give the impression of speaking a good English

If You have further questions, ask me!!

[Cleared ILS approach]

Hi all,

Just a few question about China Airlines :

- Do you think I've got a chance to get an interview with 1600h, 1300h medium jet?
- Do they still offer the "End of duty in Europe" so you can get at least 8 days off a month in Europe?
- Is the type rating recognised somewhere else than China? Not about the fact of stealing the rating and then jumping ship. Just in case you want a change after a few years.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

[MacFly16]

@Cleared ILS approach

1. Yes, You have!
2. I suppose so! Not sure about it!
3. According to my knowledge You need at least a checkride on type.

Good luck!

[fliion]

Guys,

Anyone know how to get more info on EVA. My search is coming up empty by putting in 'Eva' or 'Eva Air'

Cheers,

fliion

[orange555]

Hey folks...I am here to defend 29Chev.
I am sorry to say...he is right. You folks talking from your comfy jobs over in the UK don't know what the hell your talking about. It goes without saying that you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, but you are a professional and you expected to be treated like one right? The bottom line is that CAL goes through expats like a revolving door like no other airline in the world? You have to ask yourself why? CAL COULD be the best job in the world, but the plain fact is that its not. There are companies that are good, some that are mediocre, and some that are just plain %*^*^. Cal is the last. 29 is just trying to help any prospectives, and I will to if req's.

If you are experience building...and you want the type rating, just keep in mind that the new training bond is for 3 years with a blanket contract of 5 years and the bond money is paid by you up front. If you have no job, or want the type rating and can part with the cash and can stay for 3 years, DO IT! But if you have ANY other option...you should go that route. 29chev is just trying to help the prospectives that are considering going to CAL....so cut him a break eh?

If anyone is truely interested in what the facts are I will state them...otherwise I will not waste my time... because people will always disbelieve the facts, or minimize it to just complaining!

The reason I worked there was because of the commuting contract....looked good, but I heard from a friend they recently are changing the terms of that. I think the commuting remains..but now all pilots will commute in Economy. Not the end of the world, but pretty tough sitting in a tiny seat in economy every month commuting to work. Pretty hard to get proper rest for your first duty. This is a sign folks...it costs the company nothing to seat a pilot in business if it is empy, in fact you will still get the crew meal and not the business meal, but they won't do even this anymore! Think about this policy change and think how it relates to the companies feeling about the crew! You can draw your own conclusions. Have fun being away from your families for 3.5 weeks a month! And being dead tired the rest of the time! BTW that 95 hours of flying is done during the 3.5 weeks and it is air time only....:}

[R.Cruizo]

G'day Orange 555,
Check your PMs!

[Deske1]

You have to understand the "unspoken" policy of this airline.If anything is a benefit for You,CAL considers that it is taken away for the company.Thats the local culture,that will never change here.
On the other hand,the "old times" are ahead again as the local "top guns" are back to the management of Flight Ops and Trainig Dept.Simulator check failures for expats are back now,even if You are called for a SIM support,You will be briefed for 50 mins about your mistakes,the local chekee for 10 mins.They have started to play this game even with the more senior expat cpts now.

As a foreign F/O,forget to have PF sectors,just expect the minimum per month,the rate is about 4:1 or 5:1.So far ,I couldnt figure out,if this is a loss of face here if not the local cpt is the PF,but just check the Aircraft Logbook and see the rate of PF sectors between local F/O-local cpt and local cpt/expat F/O.You will be here as a service-boy."Spying" is well established in this culture,if You are reported for anything,You will know it only when they invite you to the Fleet Office,the procedure to notice You,that they will report You is quite unknown.
CAL tactics is/was to look for bankrupt airlines or laid off pilots to catch the guys,just see the case of Ansett,Air Canada,Jetsgo and now the Swiss.Just to ask silently;where are the australians now?the canadians?Most of them left after a year to a low-cost carrier.

Another issue;as CAL aircrew,just check how many days off (Home Leave included) are provided to the expats and how many for the locals,You will be surprised like I was!And they spend all of them with their families at their own home.

So,yes have fun,just pay your own money to come here to be a second class employee,a guard angel for the local incompetent top guns for three years or leave earlier to make richer this corrupt management.

Since january,roughly 50-60 expats left from the B744.

I guess the upgrade policy is quite clear for anyone.Just one word:NEVER.
My countdown is on the way.

[taiwanparadise]

Totally agree with chev29. I am also an Expat FO at CAL and its miserable. guys you don’t want to join CAL unless you have absolutely nothing else. The bottom line is they will never upgrade you and you don’t want to be living in Taipei, it’s a dump. You are not welcome. So why spend years accumulating seniority somewhere where its useless leave as fast as possible or don’t join!! :yuk:

I just can't stand a guy like this one anymore. Some people (like this 744driver guy) always think that somebody always owes something to you. Friends owe to you, a wife owes to you, and, here, the company owes something to you??? No, you owe something to the company, because you receive paychecks and other benefits. Maybe, this 744driver guy was smiling at the interviewers during his interview, and he promised he would work hard and try to understand the Taiwanese cultures etc... (Otherwise, he didn't get the job) And... look, how weak his promise is and how weak he himself is. How well do you know about Taiwan or Taipei? Maybe you have absolutely O (zero) friends in Taiwan (not to mention female friends...), therefore your life in Taipei must be just MISERABLE. Ok, let me remind you, it is not CAL who is miserabel, but you yourself and your life itself is unbelievably miserable. I don't know which country this guy is from, but good luck for finding ANY job or friends in your home country with your "beautiful" attitude towads life. Or, maybe you have plenty of similarly miserable losers around you and you go out and drink and bitch about life everyday, that's all you do in life, right? I just want to say... please just quit and leave Taiwan and go home and work at McDonalds in your home country. No one will stop you, and I believe so many Taiwanese locals would love it if you left this beautiful country. Bye Bye.

I just want to defend Taiwan from a guy like this one, that's all.

[Deske1]

Some people (like this 744driver guy) always think that somebody always owes something to you.
-I guess a management of a national flagcarrier owes just their given word,nothing else.

Maybe, this 744driver guy was smiling at the interviewers during his interview, and he promised he would work hard and try to understand the Taiwanese cultures etc... (Otherwise, he didn't get the job)

-For sure,the interviewers were smiling at the interview,and they promised CAL as a career path,saying no double standard in the upgrade and SIM and line evaluation between locals and expats etc....(Otherwise they didnt get any pilots)

And... look, how weak his promise is and how weak he himself is.

-Are we talking about the same people?

Maybe you have absolutely O (zero) friends in Taiwan (not to mention female friends...), therefore your life in Taipei must be just MISERABLE.

-In my case I have much more female friends than male in Taipei... :ok:

I just want to say... please just quit and leave Taiwan and go home and work at McDonalds in your home country.

-In my country,but even on the continent I came from,it is a serious crime to differentiate the employees by race,religion,language or the color of the skin and definately can not find "Mc Donalds level" captains at a national flag-carrier.

I just want to defend Taiwan from a guy like this one, that's all.

-It is not Taiwan we feel our life bad here,but it is CAL,the broken promises of the management,the double standard company policy.(My last recurrent SIM was a joke,details above)Taipei is very crowded,polluted,however there is life outside of Taipei in Taiwan,a better and cheaper life.(But dont live in Nankan).The people are polite,helpfull and friendly in the civil life,so life is quite OK outside of CAL.
What I cant belive,that none of the management ever declared to the locals,that expats will not ever get or get as less as possible upgrade,when the first expats arrived here.For sure,they keep this promise at least.

[taiwanparadise]

Well... my point is...

I used to work for an airline that starts with the ltter "A", and it was one of the biggest airlines in the world. For the last so many years, tens of promises have been broken by the management and our contract was always (mis)understood by their lawyers' special interpretation. So, it is not just with CAL or EVA, but EVERYWHERE on the earth it is the same. Companies must make money and make their shareholders happy, and we, the employees, are the least priority for them. I am not defending them at all. If you want to fly for an airline (or any jobs) without being lied to by your management, then you will need to look for a job for the rest of your life and you will never find one!!! Some companies just don't openly lie, but they hide truth from employees. You read newspaper? Ii is happening everywhere everyday.

You guys can bitch about the company or your life "after" you go back home with "your wife" or whomever, but if you do that while you are still working, you will only make other co-wokers feel miserable and unhappy. I am only requesting you guys not to do THAT. I hear just way too much bitching and crying while at work, and no one has any rights to make other people feel down. As I said earlier, if you don't like where you are now at CAL (regardless your management lies to you or not), just shut your mouth up and go back to your home country... Please... I am begging to you!!!!

[Deske1]

Did You get the main point of my last post?It was definately not about the money.It is about the treatment and the double standard policy within the airline,that dont cost a penny to the shareholders.
If CAL is serious about the so called cost-control,well they should think about the way to reduce number of pilots leaving so the cost of training will also drop.
And without an advise,people are doing exactly the same You say,after an average time of 2 years most of them leave..........some even earlier.

[taiwanparadise]

I did get your point, brother.

A double standard. I know. So what? That's their system. You (we) are living in their system. You (we) are working in their system. Don't fight againt the system. The best wisdom in life is to live with the system. Don't try to change the system to fit your life, but change your life to fit the system. The sooner you learn this wisdom the better the rest of your life will be.

And... don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing. I don't know where you are from, but let's say you are from Brazil. You are in charge of the company. You have your own people working for you, who speak the same language, share the same culture, and share the same color of skin. They will have their family in Brazil. They will build up your company bigger and better. And, they will fight for the country until death. At the same time, you also have expatriates, who don't even try to learn your language or culture. They don't try to make the company a better place, but just complain all day. And, you know, as soon as they build up some good experiences, they will leave your country without saying "bye bye" for you, or without cleaning up the mess they make. Would you still treat them the same way as your own boys? I bet you won't.

Let me tell you... For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain. You learn Chinese and you learn the Taiwanese cultures. If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining... not to your fellow co-workers, but to your boss. Can you do that? If you leave the company within less than two years or so, just because no one cares about your big "dream" or no one treats you right, I bet for the rest of your life you will always be doing the same. "Bitching about your life"

Good luck, brother.

[Crossbleed]

You (we) are working in their system. Don't fight againt the system. The best wisdom in life is to live with the system. Don't try to change the system to fit your life, but change your life to fit the system. The sooner you learn this wisdom the better the rest of your life will be.:ugh: :yuk:

For all you expats anywhere in the world, TAKE HEED. This is the prevailing view of the employee in China. You owe the company a debt of gratitude because they pay you a wage. Your skills are not seen as necessarily valuable and your qualifications aren't unique. Morale within the pilot body, fairness when promotion time comes around etc. etc. ad naeseum. are viewed as irrelevant concerns of a bitching worker.

They don't try to make the company a better place, but just complain all day. And, you know, as soon as they build up some good experiences, they will leave your country without saying "bye bye" for you, or without cleaning up the mess they make. Would you still treat them the same way as your own boys? I bet you won't.
You may have a point TP. But the difference is if you come to our house you will be treated as an equal because the interview process has filtered you out of the masses and you're now part of the team. There will be no hidden seniority numbers, no "get the expat" in the Sim culture etc etc.
Oh yeah, want to go home on your days off?? Empty business class seats?? Stiff SH1t! You'll be sitting in economy.
If the attitude of TP was the prevalent one internationally, there would be a global pilot civil-war. TP's grovelling stance would undermine all the terms and conditions we've fought for, and I believe deserve, over the years.
Going to work in Taiwan?? Think long and hard. Look at www.nankantraz.org and see what's going on at Eva Air.
There are no unions on the ROC either, so there's no collective bargaining or any sort of recourse. If you have a grievance, keep ya trap shut or your next sim will be a fail. The only reason expats are still on the ROC is because:
1) Insurance Companies demand the experience level of an expatriate workforce.
2) Taiwanese carriers need them to baby-sit the (sadly) cronically low-time captains within their fleets
3)Some of us are so desperate for heavy-jet time we'll go anywhere.
Coat/Door

[Deske1]

TP,

As You can see in my post above,I am coming from a continent where the discrimination between employees by origin,race,religion or colour of skin is a serious crime.And I thought thats right when I arrived to CAL.After some years at CAL and on the way to leave,now I have revised my idea about it,and totaly agree with your post,and wish to have that the principles of employement in my Home Country would be based upon your post.
If I am going to start to spread the basics of your post at home,will I be the intolerant,racist bad boy in my Home Country?
I guess if these people or their relatives would experience the same treatment or principles in my country they would cry out on a loudest way.

You and CAL have teached me for the following;double standard?so what? ,change your life to fit the system,don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing.,For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain.,If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining

So,thrust me,a very short time and I will be at home and will spread,that this should be the attitude towards the non-local employees.

[taiwanparadise]

I know your pains and anger, believe me.

The country where I am from (USA), if you differentiate people by anything, then, you get fired. It is a very fair country (in terms of employment). But, how long would I have to wait just to be a reserve FO on a big jet? 20 years at least... If I am lucky and they start hiring pilots soon again.

If you go to Japan, you are a contract based-pilot. No matter how good you are, as soon as they get enough home grown pilots, then, you are not needed anymore. They won't renew your contract.

With CAL, you don't have to wait 20 years to fly a jumbo-jet or you won't have to renew your contract. Of course, things are NOT perfect here at all. But, I got to stay here for some reason (because of a girl...), so, as long as I stay here I want to be positive and happy and enjoy my job. And, it IS possible to enjoy my job, if someone doesn't start bitching about his life very loud in our crew room.

That's it. Good luck after you go back home, brother!

[Deske1]

That was the main reason to come here,the big jet.But right now,I will be very satisfied with the A320 at home.

Ahhhh....the famous crew room in Taipei,life is much better outside of the the capital.

[Deske1]

An aircraft doesnt woth to sacrifice my only life,just to support their unfair system.Not to mention the drop of the USD these days and in the future,that means this is the same money on a narrow-body at home and not at a flag-carrier.

[29chev]

taiwanparadise

Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!

[MONK]

Hey 29chev.....

How long have you been at CAL?.......at most airlines...eg. Qantas it takes about 13 years for a command......virgin blue about 8 years....Cathay about 10 years......if you've been at CAL for that long I can understand you fustration....but if you've only been there for a few years then I think you're asking a bit much.

BTW...before you criticize others about their english skills.....you should look at your own!!....."...when I would make captain".....

[Deske1]

There is a huge point on 29chevs side.Lets suppose this thing;

Fact,a lot of CAL pilots with taiwanese origin live with their family in Vancouver.Lets suppose their wifes apply for a job in Canada.They go for the interview,and successfully pass it.Got the job,lets say the employer is owned by the Canadian Government.
And then they get the same treatment from this state owned company that the expatriate pilots at CAL,misleaded at the interview,promotion is restricted,double standard at the annual evaluation,broken contracts,ever changing terms and conditions....etc.
On the top of that,they could hear from the local employees that if You dont like it,the door is open.

My very silent questions are:how long could this company stay in business,how fast would this govenment be on power,and would the same people cry it loud or would they accept their situation without a word?

Here at CAL we dont/didnt expect a fast command just a fair treatment and the lack of double standard system.

[29chev]

Monk
I wasn't expecting the command I was told I would get it ....they did not tell me the truth....that is my complaint!!! And as you asked I was with CAL for 18 months + or - a few days before I quit....... ....sorry about my slang on an international forum "making captain" is how we would put it where I'm from,.... your correct it is not proper English....I really don't give a hoot about his English ...I'm more concerned about who he is trying to pretend to be...if he really is from the USA "My Bad" but my point still stands CAL treats their expats poorly and they get what they deserve .
29

[MONK]

29Chev

I can understand your fustration....broken promises....sorry that you have to go through it......but seriously....a command after 18 months is a bit unrealistic.....do CAL have a seniority system?.....did you ask them about promotion policy?....

I think things will change in the near future as the asian demand for pilots continue to grow.....should stick at it for a while and see what happens....but think of it in a positive way....you got some wide body jet experience......cultural experience.......good or bad...it makes you a better person.......

[taiwanparadise]

taiwanparadise
Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!

Oh... 29chev, so you are one of those Canadian losers, huh? I knew that. I heard a rumor that Canadian pilots do nothing but complain, and now, I know the rumor is true...

Anyway, sir, your point is completely wrong, and let me pin-point your wrong points of view, just in case you are not so clever that you understand your mistakes yourself. I am just trying to help you, OK.

Firstly, if foreign pilots get hired by West Jet or Air Canada, they speak English, one of Canada's official languages, and most likely, they have commitment to the Canadian society, because they are most likely Canadian citizens. (Last time when I checked, the Canadian government or Canadian airlines didn't have generosity to hire foreign nationals without Canadian citizenship... Wow!!! CAL is so generous in that matter, huh) That's why there are no reasons or on benefits for the employers to give a double standard for anybody.

On the other hand, you in Taiwan... with CAL... How many Chinese or Taiwanese words did you pick up? Can you even tell the difference between the two languages? Did you study history or politics of Taiwan? And... when was the last time you saw the local Taiwanese people WITHOUT any intimidation or discrimination in your mind. I bet you a million dollars that every single time when you see the locals, you tell yourself that you are better than those yellow people, because you are from the great country of Canada... Am I not right? You are so mad not just because you are treated wrong, but also because you are treated wrong by the yellow people who you consider inferior to you... Am I not right?

You don't try to give commitment or you NEVER tried to give commitment since "the day one." You are always constantly looking for reasons to justify your bad attitude. You are always looking for excuses why you were not accepted in the Canadian society (Or, in the Taiwan society either) You are so sad because you have failed in Canada AND in Taiwan. The management people can see through easily a weak guy like you, a tricky guy like you, a loser like you. That's why they never treat you right. But, you are lucky, man, because if I am your boss, I would make you a cabin attendant, hahaha!

Secondly, don't talk like you know about West Jet or Air Canada. You have never been with them, am I right? See... you are talking like you know about something that you really don't know. You are just guessing. Now, you are not just a loser, but you are a liar. Now, all of sudden, what you are complaining about CAL has come to sound like little truth and loads of lies.

Third, if you have so many complains, I bet you have gone to talk with youe boss (bosses) face to face, like a real man. Or... have you??? Don't tell me you haven't. You sound like a tough guy on this website or in the crew room, but you can never talk with your boss face to face. If you are really concerned with CAL's situation or fellow expat pilots, you should have done that. But, I know, you just care about yourself. Typical. That's why you complain non-stop, but never do anything, because you got no balls. Now, you are not just a loser, or a liar, but you are also a coward.

Now, I can picture very very crisply what type of man you are. I have seen hundreds of guys like you in my life. But... be careful. By the age 50, a guy like you would become completely and absolutely miserable. No wife, no friends, or no real job. Just... the Canada's ice-cold winds will be blowing right through your lonely heart...

Oh... by the way, I am not a Taiwanese. I am from Japan. And... thank you very much for criticizing on my English. Without being criticized, I would never learn. I still make lots of mistakes, because English is my 4th language to learn. You know those Asian people who you love so much do speak two or three or more languages... And... you? I bet your French is fluent, because it is one of your country's official languages, right. If you like, write me in French or maybe in Japanese... oh, don't tell me you can't, because I don't want to call you a loser/liar/coward and stupid.

You know the history??? Japan invaded Taiwan years ago? That's why sometimes, I am treated by the locals much worse than you could imagine. Not even in the company but outside of the company also. But... I don't complain. You know why? Because "I" made this decision. No one has ever forced me and no one is forcing me to be where I am right now. When a Japanese man makes a decision, then he is responsible for that decision, he gives commitment, and he complains only to himself alone, or directly to his boss. That's the way of Samurai. I used to believe that Canadian men are much tougher than a guy like you... but I guess I was wrong.

Get packed and leave. Your sweet mom at home will take care of you on your bed!!!

[Deske1]

Hey,there is no use to eat each other.Thats what this management prefer very much,when the pilots are killing each other....locals vs locals,expat vs locals.
And I guess the bigest lie was interview here.The interview held by the mangement of the taiwanese flag-carrier.The fact is,the only way CAL gets pilots if they lie to them.This their real recruitment policy.My intention was to come here and fly for them until retirement,now I am only counting the days left here.My intention was even to pick up some mandarin.Why the hell they cant have a system like at CX?This airline could be as successful and as good to work for as CX,they have all the potential for that,specially now,that they are opening the airlinks to the mainland China,but the system and the representatives of this system destroys everything,including CAL........sad thing.

For sure,if I know this,I am not coming here-(I am against CAL,not the local ordinary people)-and I guess none of us would ever enter this door.

TP,can You imagine lets say any german origin pilot to get any abuse while he is flying for Cargolux(Luxemburg),Transavia(Holland) or in the UK?Is the term "third world" based only on the infrastructure or something else?Maybe I am too conservative,but for me a national flag-carrier,run by the government is a mirror of the given country.The service,the maintenance,the flight ops.,the working ethics,the company culture.

TP,why CAL is looking for "loosers"?And why CX,SQ,LH,BA,KL,EK...etc dont?OK,You say command at QF or CX is about 7-10 years,OK I accept this,I accept everything is not based on racist discrimination or lie.When the standards and requirement are valid for all employee.And no,I dont judge the taiwanese people on the experience of the national flag-carrier.On my last SIM-(as a support,not a checkee)- I was really thinking about to walk out of the equipment,please dont use me to maintain your system to let the preferable group wear the 4 stripes,no matter how incompetent they are.Although I am not a top gun,but this was a joke.And the cold shower,they brief me for 50 mins. as a support,how bad I am and the local top gun was briefed for 10 mins in mandarin as the notice on the IPs pen says;I am a CRM believer,lets work together....bull.....t.The taiwanese are very disciplined people,they wouldnt do this way,if it wouldnt be the offical policy by the management.
The same night I have signed the contract for a narrow-body and faxed home,reply arrived the next morning.

[gengis]

"TP,why CAL is looking for "loosers"?And why CX,SQ,LH,BA,KL,EK...etc dont?OK,You say command at QF or CX is about 7-10 years"

Surely you are not putting CAL with the likes of those you've mentioned above?

[pitotman]

Taiwan paradise,

Wow you are an angry person! I hope you find happiness soon as I know
29chev who returned to his world class job at Air Canada after Taipei is very happy! Even if the poor bugger is Jr to me on the master list.....

Oh... 29chev, so you are one of those Canadian losers, huh? I knew that. I heard a rumor that Canadian pilots do nothing but complain, and now, I know the rumor is true...

Dude you have to be joking me! Canadians are among the most highly recruited pilots in the world. What you are completely missing here is that LIES that we were told when we went to CAL. CAL lied to me........... I never complained and I sat down with DEAN YOUNG my 744 Chief Pilot and confronted him about the lies and I resigned. PS Dean Young also told me I would be welcome back to CAL ANYTIME I wanted.

I am flying in Japan now and the Japanese love working with Canadians

Firstly, if foreign pilots get hired by West Jet or Air Canada, they speak English, one of Canada's official languages, and most likely, they have commitment to the Canadian society, because they are most likely Canadian citizens. (Last time when I checked, the Canadian government or Canadian airlines didn't have generosity to hire foreign nationals without Canadian citizenship... Wow!!! CAL is so generous in that matter, huh) that’s why there are no reasons or on benefits for the employers to give a double standard for anybody.

Just for the record here dude "official language of aviation ........you guessed it...........wait for it! ENGLISH!

The reason CAL needs guys like you and me is because of the history of KILLING PEOPLE in airplanes not because Taiwan is so forward thinking and out of the generosity of there hearts ............come on man give your head a shake!

On the other hand, you in Taiwan... with CAL... How many Chinese or Taiwanese words did you pick up? Can you even tell the difference between the two languages? Did you study history or politics of Taiwan? And... When was the last time you saw the local Taiwanese people WITHOUT any intimidation or discrimination in your mind. I bet you a million dollars that every single time when you see the locals, you tell yourself that you are better than those yellow people, because you are from the great country of Canada... Am I not right? You are so mad not just because you are treated wrong, but also because you are treated wrong by the yellow people who you consider inferior to you... Am I not right?


Again bro, in your above RANT you make some childish remarks! 29Chev lives and works in the most culturally diverse cities in the world and flies for an equal rights employer at Air Canada. The only thing yellow he had a problem with in Taipei was the beer............so again man give your head a shake dude and grow up!

You don't try to give commitment or you NEVER tried to give commitment since "the day one." You are always constantly looking for reasons to justify your bad attitude. You are always looking for excuses why you were not accepted in the Canadian society (Or, in the Taiwan society either) you are so sad because you have failed in Canada AND in Taiwan. The management people can see through easily a weak guy like you, a tricky guy like you, a loser like you. That's why they never treat you right. But, you are lucky, man, because if I am your boss, I would make you a cabin attendant, hahaha!

Do I need to even address the above childish remarks...........dare I!
Ah hell why not....let see when 29chev and I set out to get and apartment in Taipei we thought LONG TERM at least the 5 years and that is why we got ourselves a really NICE apartment in Renai Lu walking distance to Tpe 101 so don't yap about commitment. I am quite confident none of us ever have to worry about you being our boss.........ps why you disrespect flight attendants anyways.....


Secondly, don't talk like you know about West Jet or Air Canada. You have never been with them, am I right? See... you are talking like you know about something that you really don't know. You are just guessing. Now, you are not just a loser, but you are a liar. Now, all of sudden, what you are complaining about CAL has come to sound like little truth and loads of lies.

100% CORRECT 29CHEV KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WESTJET. That is by choice! As he currently is going through command training at Air Canada. As I remember he never applied at West Jet! West Jet is a great company and again an EQUAL RIGHTS EMPLOYER!


Third, if you have so many complains, I bet you have gone to talk with youe boss (bosses) face to face, like a real man. Or... have you??? Don't tell me you haven't. You sound like a tough guy on this website or in the crew room, but you can never talk with your boss face to face. If you are really concerned with CAL's situation or fellow expat pilots, you should have done that. But, I know, you just care about yourself. Typical. That's why you complain non-stop, but never do anything, because you got no balls. Now, you are not just a loser, or a liar, but you are also a coward.

See above comments about my 2 hr chat with Dean Young...........did I mention that I am still invited back to CAL at ANYTIME....

Now, I can picture very very crisply what type of man you are. I have seen hundreds of guys like you in my life. But... be careful. By the age 50, a guy like you would become completely and absolutely miserable. No wife, no friends, or no real job. Just... the Canada's ice-cold winds will be blowing right through your lonely heart...


Picture this: 29chev just bought a new house that is being built to his specs............just ran a marathon in YVR a month or so ago.........has a beautiful wife I know cause she is almost as hot as mine..........and two lovely little boys............Dude don't talk to us about the Canadian ice-cold winds cause last time I checked you have never flown on to ice in the high arctic ........last time I checked we both have............


Oh... by the way, I am not a Taiwanese. I am from Japan. And... Thank you very much for criticizing on my English. Without being criticized, I would never learn. I still make lots of mistakes, because English is my 4th language to learn. You know those Asian people who you love so much do speak two or three or more languages... And... you? I bet your French is fluent, because it is one of your country's official languages, right. If you like, write me in French or maybe in Japanese... oh, don't tell me you can't, because I don't want to call you a loser/liar/coward and stupid.

Taiwanese Japanese, why do you think it makes a difference to us! Do not try to put a label on Canadians........what makes Canada the best country in the world is the fact that it is made up of immigrants from ALL over the world from every race and culture. Again your childish attempts to slag Canadians over how many languages we speak is adolecent at best. English is the language of the world............that is a fact! Last time I checked Canada was only a 100 or so years old so take your English beef up with the Brits hell they ruled the world back them!

PS I know lots of Canadians who speak up to 10 languages and MY BOAT IS BIGGER THAN YOURS................
I hope you get my point there.........let me know if you don't and I will rewrite it!



You know the history??? Japan invaded Taiwan years ago? That's why sometimes, I am treated by the locals much worse than you could imagine. Not even in the company but outside of the company also. But... I don't complain. You know why? Because "I" made this decision. No one has ever forced me and no one is forcing me to be where I am right now. When a Japanese man makes a decision, then he is responsible for that decision, he gives commitment, and he complains only to himself alone, or directly to his boss. That's the way of Samurai. I used to believe that Canadian men are much tougher than a guy like you... but I guess I was wrong.

29chev made his decision to go to Taiwan based on LIES from CAL management. So did you! As a man he did what was right for his family and stayed at CAL against his better judgment for as long as he could bare it. Then when the lies and the safety concerns became too much he quit. That is how I measure a man and his toughness..........if he was not the father and husband that he is, 29chev would have quit CAL after about 3 months............That’s how long it takes to get online and see what a disaster CAL truly is!

If you don't complain then why are you writing it on here...........you made your choice to go to CAL..............so be a Samurai and spare us.........

Get packed and leave. Your sweet mom at home will take care of you on your bed!!!

Yeah I think he did leave............again man you should not disrespect mothers it just childish......


Like I said at the very top of this post bro! I hope you find happiness as most of those who have left CAL have...........and that is why almost every LOCAL I flew with for my time at CAL told me they were looking for a way out............maybe you should to when you have the experience you gained at CAL to get a job at home........


Godspeed brutha

[29chev]

pitotman
Thanks for the kind words....and watching my back!!!

taiwanparadise

I think if you read the above post you'll get most of the story....but I take extreme exception to one point you make....You said...

"but also because you are treated wrong by the yellow people who you consider inferior to you... Am I not right? "

That statement is completely un true..You are not right..I don't consider any person in the world inferior to me and that includes flight attendants ...I think your anger and venom that you spew only tells us of how you feel about other peoples......as a matter of fact my oldest son who I had with my wife of 15 years....has several friends who are originally from Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea.....If I dislike Asians so much why would I let them play together, go to school together, have sleep overs and go to summer camp together......the reason because everyone is the same....I invite those kids and their parents into my home with open arms.......

What I disliked was CAL the company and how they treated ME nothing else, I actually had a lot of fun in TPE.

You said..

(Last time when I checked, the Canadian government or Canadian airlines didn't have generosity to hire foreign nationals without Canadian citizenship... Wow!!! CAL is so generous in that matter, huh) That's why there are no reasons or on benefits for the employers to give a double standard for anybody.


Canada doesn’t need to hire pilots from other countries because we have many many pilots, but if you come to Canada and get a landed immigrant status card and a Canadian pilots license you can apply to West Jet or Air Canada and if you are the best candidate you will get the job…....CAL is not generous to hire foreign pilots they NEED foreign pilots or they would have to park airplanes it is as simple as that they don’t have enough pilots, if they did they would not give me a job.

By the way why did you say in one post,

The country where I am from (USA),

and then the next post

Oh... by the way, I am not a Taiwanese. I am from Japan.

I never said you were Taiwanese I said "like " the Taiwanese.....if you are so happy why do you say you are from the USA? never mind that...there are many good airlines in Japan why do you not work for one of them??? oh never mind none of my business it's up to you where you work.

[29chev]

Oh YA the language thing...not much but I'll try

Shai shai ne......bo ca chee.....Ren Ai Lou su dwen......zit zue jo...yo jwan.....
jo jwan....yo bein....jo bein...ting....may wan te..... and the most important.....
ching gay wa ei ping pesho


I'm sure my spelling and pronunciation is all wrong but that is how they sounded.

[29chev]

Taiwan paradise
One more thing....I feel very sorry for you.....if all you have to do in your life is fight for the honor of CAL you must have a very sad and empty life in deed.........I hope things improve for you and you get all the happeness life has to offer.
29

[29chev]

Monk

You said

....but seriously....a command after 18 months is a bit unrealistic.....do CAL have a seniority system?.....did you ask them about promotion policy?....
your right they told me 3 years but I could see the writing on the wall....no no seniority system......and yes I asked but later found out they had only upgraded 5 or 6 expats in the history of the company

I think things will change in the near future as the asian demand for pilots continue to grow.....should stick at it for a while and see what happens....but think of it in a positive way....you got some wide body jet experience......cultural experience.......good or bad...it makes you a better person.......

You are totaly correct couldn't agree more I grew as a person and a pilot.
Cheers
29

[taiwanparadise]

Hey guys

I never intended to disrespect the Canadian pilots as whole. Just because some of your former comments SOUNDED like disrespecting the Taiwanese people, non-native English speakers, and Taiwan itself to me... that's why I tried to counter-attack you. Yah, I admit, some of my comments were childish and out of the points. Again, I never really tried to disrespect Canada. (I have been there for five times myself.)

Well, I never tried to defend CAL either. Thanks for worrying about my possibly "miserable" life. But, it is not too bad actually. As I mentioned before, it's all about a girl. A beautiful Taiwanese girl who made me crazy... that's why I "must" stay here... and in order to stay here, I "must" find happiness at CAL, in Taiwan. It is possible to do so, I believe... But, sometimes, when I am eating my lunch alone quietly, I hear LOUD complains from my back disrupting my peace. That's what I hate about more than anything else. That's why I hope everyone just goes back home and complains at home, so that I can at least maintain my peace... Got it???

I never said CAL is great or they have not lied. I am just trying to be positive no matter what situation I am in.

By the way, yes, I am from Japan, but have spent more than 15 years in USA and worked for American. Japan is a good place, so is USA and Canada. And, this girl is making me believe that Taiwan is also a great country... that's why I am so sensitive to any comments against Taiwan... That's all, brothers!!!

I wish you all a happy life, and make sure you always fly high and safe. Banff is a great place, man!!!

[DirtyMonkey]

Hi there guys.

I like your messages, very informative. I hate to interupt a good scrap but I was wondering if anyone could tell me some more about the selection process?

I've had the phone pre interview, which went pretty much as you all said it would. Now, how long until they call me for a formal interview? If they do that is.

I can understand why some of you guys would be pissed off at the place, broken promises and not as many benefits as other airlines, not as much money and so on. But for me it is a big step. You see, I have no jet time. None, zero. So even though it will mean a bit of a pay cut for me from my turbo prop job, it is a move in a whole new direction. Not that you care, but those are my reasons for applying, even after all the crap everyone threw at CAL.

So, what do you think? 2 weeks? 2 months? Just curious.

Thanks, and good luck!

[pitotman]

TaiwanP,

Well that explains a lot......what men will not do for a good woman! I wish you the best of luck in Taiwan. Hopefully you can win her heart and get back home to show her a even nicer place to live! We had a saying in our apartment at old renei lu and the was you come to CAL with two buckets.........

One bucket for Money...


One bucket for Sh*t.....


Guess which bucket fills up the quickest for most of us! I applaud you for staying positive and I can honestly say admire you for what you are doing. I went to Cal after my furlough at AC and intended to stay the five years but when I personally looked at the buckets the money bucket was laughing at me............and I made more than almost every cojo in the company as I was rated with 2000 hrs on type...........but the lies, the training, the 90 hr AIR TIME months.......it is all not worth you health! Even for a woman bro........I left for my sanity, my health, and to take a stand against the lies........ Good thing I will NEVER go back............I know I know NEVER say NEVER..........Well I WILL NEVER FLY ON OR FOR CAL AS LONG AS I LIVE NOR WILL ANYONE IN MY FAMILY OR IMMEDIATE CIRCLES OF FRIENDS............that is how strongly I feel about what I saw there..........


Good luck bro!

Pitot

PS man u get a NRT overnight let me know I will buy ya a beer..........

[orange555]

Hey Pitotman and 29Chev...

Really missing you guys! Its not the same without you. CaL is the same unfortunately. They aint so smart....

as I mentioned in prev post to any hopefulls, it is a revolving door here! Think about it...there is a reason for this! Don't think that it is all just complaining and you will come here and be happy! This is not just whining...this is professionals telling the facts so as to inform and help anyone else thinking about going there. The facts speak for themeselves. If CAL wanted to keep people they know what to do..but they don't. Anyway...all you guys out there considering Cal, think long and hard at your options before committing. Don't listen to TWparadise. 29 and pitot have been there and they are the best source for anyone considering going there. They can tell you exactly what the deal is there. No company is perfect.....but there are big differences between companies....and you gotta look at the big picture. TWparadise makes it seem like every company is the same. So I guess CAL is the same as CX????? NO!! Think about it brothers...anyone considering a 3-5 year commitement at CAL. If there are any other options...go elsewhere. My friend was at CAL for 3 months and left for a Middle East company. That is not complaining...that is a fact! Think about it man!!!!

Btw Pitot and 29, guess what CAL is up to lately....No more BC ecm....only economy. Accross the board change with no warning. Wonder how long that will last?? lol.

29, will give you a jingle soon. Kinda busy lately. Can't wait for the Argentina game tomorrow.....
Cheers boys.

[orange555]

Just read some prev posts. Anyone considering CAL go back to Crossbleed's last post. He nails the reality pretty accurately in my opinion. Its really all about the insurance company I think. If there wasn't a req to have expats there...for diversification...they wouldn't be there.

[MONK]

29Chev...

Sorry to hear about you experiences....hope its all working out for you now.....and also for your family.....

[fender]

In one of my rare momentry lapses of reason, I scanned this site and caught up with this thread. I am astounded at Taiwan Paradises comments. You are an ASS TP. I live in a country so multi-cultural that no one generally gives a rats ass where you come from. Then you come along and rant some ****e that everyone else is racist,prejidice and superior and then do a u-turn and tell the world your in love!!!! You just wanna sit in the corner and eat your lunch in peace and quiet.That explains alot. Are you a pilot or HR for CAL. Come on, fess up.
EHhhhh.. and to top it off you say you are Japanese. Dont turn me off my favorite cultural, culinary and chickybabe experiences.
I worked for CAL because I was promised, YES PROMISED a command which never eventuated.Yeh yeh I know, I wasnt good enough ,RIGHT. NO, simply because managment are full of it. I became a baby sitter for inexperienced kids who need their asses wiped or whipped!!!! I also would never put my family on one of their flights now that I know better.:= Also, be warned, Your Taiwan licence aint worth the paper its written on. After that little rant of mine, the managment asked everyone to input why so many expats were leaving.. HAAhhhaahaHHAHA.. Do you know why?
chief pilot trying to cover his ass to vice prez.

[pira]

Hi,
I worked for CAL for about 3 years.I was really surprised when I read the Taiwanparadise post, but was relieved when the explanation came.
The truth is YOU CAN'T TRUST THEM!CAL does not honor any of the benefits promised to you.
1) FORGET ABOUT UPGRADE!!
2) TERMS AND CONDITIONS WERE DETERIORATING ON A DAILY BASIS!
3) BACK TO BACK LEAVES ARE NOT THE WAY THEY USED TO BE!
4) REPORTING TIME WAS 02:20 PRIOR TO STD AND HAD TO RIDE A BUS WITH 2 744 CREW. JUST IMAGINE 34 OR SO TAIWANESES EATING IN TAIWAN'S STYLE!
5) CHIEF PILOT AND MOST OF THE SIM AND LINE INSTRUCTORS WERE NOT ABLE TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING APART FROM THOSE STUPID NUMBERS THAT THEY LIKE TO MEMORIZE!
6) CIRCLING APP PROCEDURE BASED ONLY IN NUMBERS THAT I HAD TO MEMORIZE ( I SELDOM SAW PILOTS IN THE SIM LOOKING TO THE RUNWAY.THE COMMON PRACTICE WAS TO LOOK TO THE MAP DISPLAY AND DO THAT 70, 80 OR 90 DEGREES TURN ALWAY FROM THE FINAL TRACK DEPENDING ON THE WIND), BEST SUITED FOR ENGINEERS!!!
7) POOR PILOT SKILLS (SOMETIMES SCARING)
8) TAIWANESE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO LEAVE TOGETHER AND HOW TO RESPECT EACH OTHER.(i.e they enter in the elevator before you leave, they speed up in order to not allow you to cross the street, eat like :mad: , and the list goes on...)
9) THE WEATHER IS TERRIBLE AND IT RAINS 70% OF THE YEAR!
10) THE POLUTION IS TERRIBLE!
11) THE CITY IS UGLY AND THE TAXI AND BUS DRIVERS CAN MAKE YOU VOMIT IN LESS THAN 5 MIN!!!
12) TV IS POOR WITH SOME OF THE FEW ENGLISH CHANNELS SHOWING PROGRAMS DATED FROM 1999!!!!!
13) POLITICS MADE ME LAUGH MANY TIMES!!!!!
Well, after all of this, I decided to move on to another airline.Like someone said in one of the posts, there is no perfect airline, no perfect pilot, no perfect husband.... but I think one should not stay in a place that makes you upset and frustrated 99% of the time.
Before someone talks about racism, I don't consider myself better than anyone! English, as you could see, is not my native language and I do have a lot of respect for those expats working for CAL once they are the ones responsible to keep CAL out of the NEWS.::D
While in CAL, I had the opportunity to go to Japan many times and you just can't compare the Japanese culture with the taiwanese one.
For those who are considering CAL that's what I have to say:
CONSIDER IT AS YOUR LAST CHOICE!!!
SIA CARGO, JAL, AIR MACAU, CATHAY, VALUE AIR, JETSTAR, DRAGON, NAC, AIR DO,ETIHAD, EMIRATES, RIYANAIR, EASYJET, NETJETS, ...... they all offer a better career and enviromental for you.
Take care and fly safe!
PIRA
:ok:

[orange555]

TW paradise...where did you go?

I wanna hear what you have to say to everyone after you have so clearlystated that the best way to be happy in life is to be a door-mat and never fight for what you think is right. Boooy.. you must be good at taking up the rear in every aspect of your life eh?? Me thinks your not from the USA either. People from the US don't behave this way. Maybe you just took flight school there???

Anyway...you make a perfect doormat. If I had a company I want employee's like you...so I can take max advantage of you and give all the value to the shareholder..so I can be rewarded for my performance. HEY! YOU FIGURED IT OUT!! Guess what dimwit...you figured it out...that is why employees as a group have to have strength together...so they can "as a body" fight for some of the benefits they deserve...and find that "balance" between the employees and the shareholders. A smart company will do this anyway...because a happy company has good performance and lower costs. CAL doesn't do this. And that is where the complaining comes in...people are trying to find a common ground. And we all have a right to it.

1. Everyone has rights. A right to be treated professionally, a right to stand up when they are not, a right to a good working environment, and reward where reward is due. AND A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN WITH COLLEAGUES/FRIENDS. It is always mutual. the complaining is a way of finding out if your buddies are on the same page as you....you know, strength in numbers creates better representation. If you don't like your colleagues complaining...tell him...if you are too weak to do that...you have no business being in a cockpit. (sounds like you)
2. No-on I have ever known will complain to someone they don't know...and are not comfy with. Even the locals complain, but only after you become comfortable with each other. The problem is the locals are gennerally against the expat...so perfect for the shareholder....DIVIDE AND CONQUER! That is why the local only gets half the pay the expat does. :bored:
3. Every company IS different. Yes ..every company will lie a little or alot, but they are NOT all the same...and many are a great deal better than CAL and the one you work for (CAL). So don't generalize them all the same. I have worked for companies where I had small complaints but everything was great...now I work for a company that is just a complete disaster and needs alot of changes. All of management and HR should be replaced. The point of this thread THAT YOU ARE TO DIM TO FIGURE OUT is to educate people into making the proper decision as they do have choices in this great upmarket.

You are def not a pilot....otherwise you would know and thank us for our info. Because we are just trying to help any pilot that is thinking of this place. So throttle down "brother"...

We are not against you....we could shut up if we didnt care.. ..but then everyone would say...why didn't you tell me!

This is about information...how you read it and if you take offence is more about you than anything else. AFter all THIS IS A FORUM DIMWIT!

orange

[MONK]

Orange555.....

I agree with you that everyone has rights......unfortunately these rights are not respected or even recognised all over the world.....some countries don't even respect basic human rights let alone...."right to be treated professionally".....I guess my question is.....rather than "complaining" .....what can we (from a world where there are 'rights') do to make a difference?

Pira....

What does "eating" has to do with CAL?.....every culture has different ways of eating.......some with their fingers...some use chopsticks...some use knife and fork.....you get my drift......

You say their piloting skills are "poor' and even "scaring".....if that is the case....how can they improve unless someone trains them?.....and circling app procedures......are these based on the manufacturer's (boeing/airbus) FCTM or is it their own?

and guys....

even if it is about "insurance requirements" to have expats flying with CAL.....if this improves safety for the aviation world.....its got to be a positive thing?....

[MONK]

Fender.....

Why do you refer to them as kids?......are they that much younger than you?.....I find your comments a bit condescending and patronising....I am sure some of them are of the same age as you if not older so at least show some respect for that....

if you are refering to their flying skills then state the facts......sure...your family may not be on their flight....but their flight might be over your home!!!.....I am not tryng to defend them.....i am trying to see how those who has the skills and know how help those who don't and make it safer for everyone.....

their skills and experience may not be on the same level as yours......but think about it.....put yourself in their shoes......think back when your level of skills and experience were the same as theirs and someone says to you....."I'll give you a command on a 747-400, but don't worry we'll train you and there will be someone there with heaps of experience to look after you"....what would you do? .....knock it back or jump at the opportunity?

[pira]

MonK,
as I said before, those things were difficult to me, the culture change was too much for me and for many others.
The fact they are selfish, sorry for the word, but is a FACT! They just don't know how to live in a society.That's my point of view and I do respect those who disagree.
Most of the procedures, including the circling app, are not from Boeing. They are created to adapt the common sense and expected level of airmanship presented in the Boeing FCTM into a Mathematical formula that can be memorized by them.
Once again, I don't intend to criticise any culture, society or company, but I honestly think that there are lots of better options in the world right now.
Pilots applying for CAL must understand that they will not get what is written on the contract and that they will not have a career.I CAN GUARANTEE THIS!!
If someone feels that this is his time to move, to go to somewhere different or even to get some widebody experience, I think this is fine, but don't go for a career and be prepared to live in an Island that has, at least, 2 earthquakes a week and some :mad: Hurricane seasons.
To answer your question more clearly, eating has a lot to do with CAL.I don't know if you have worked in the Far East or CAL specifically, but it is very difficult for many of the expats to deal with the chinese habits.It is just completely different and, although you are in a different society and culture it is very, very difficult to deal with it on a daily basis.
It is difficult to eat your poor crew meal in the cockpit and go to the toilet and see all the flight attendants eating first and businness class meals.And you know what? You can't complain!
MONK I'll tell you something.Any airline has it's own problems, but "orange55 said it precisely.You deserve to be treated well, professionaly and politely.This is a right that you have and you should never be satisfied with less than that! I don't expect any perfect job as I don't expect to be perfect myself, but I did move to be in peace with my mind, to restore my dignity, and to be proud to be a pilot.
In my opinion, as I said, this is the minimum "benefit" that an employer can give to an employee and, in CAL, you don't get this "minimum" package.
Hope I maid it clear now.
Best regards and fly safe,


Pira

;)

[Deske1]

And yeah,its 1640PM on the 28th in Taipei and still no schedule for July.

Dear CAL,dont You miss the 70 something expats those have resigned since January?:}

[orange555]

Hi Monk..

Well Taiwan is actually not that bad for human rights...the government is the "Democratic Progressive Party", and the court system is alive and well where people of all walks of life settle disputes. In fact I even have my own lawyer friend here that practices family law. I know what you mean about some countries not having human rights, but that doesn't apply here.

As far as complaining goes...this is less about my own complaining and more about trying to educate others who are thinking of coming here to help them make the right decisions if they have options. Think of it as "voicing concern" rather than complaining. I am not negative by nature...there really are major problems with this company. I AM being proactive by helping others make the right decision...it is just another way of being effective and helping the company "get the message" so they can fix things.

As far as what can we do to fix things...I might ask you the same question. You well know that any attempts to have meetings or make suggestions fall on deaf ears. In fact we as a group of foriegners are largely placated to placidity so no ripples are felt up at the top level. I am all open to fixes, but I am not taking the chance to be around long enough to see if any will happen....

Orange

[setthrust]

Are there any positives to CAL?? I've heard about being treated poorly, paid poorly and scheduled poorly. Does anyone appreciate their job, or at least enjoy it SOMETIMES???

[cityshuttle737]

Hi,
maybe somebody can tell me where the ELO bases are at the moment and how long you must wait to get them?
What is the typical roster,how many hours?,off days?,overlays?
If you are based in TPE,ist it possible to commute?
Thanx in advance...

[windyhill wanderer]

Was just wondering how all the people with phone interviews and sim checks/medicals have been going?

[shakazulu]

To 555, 29, deske1, pitotman, thank you all for your invaluable input here. To me, this is one of the real advantages of the internet. So guys like you can tell guys like me who have been thinking about CAL, what the real deal is. So I can choose to not give up seniority to go there and get screwed. These posts must be a huge blow to the HR depts. of companies that are treating pilots like dirt and lying in the interviews.
TapeiParadise, I found your generalisations about Canadians highly offensive, untrue, and completely juvenile. How can you possibly call informative, intelligent people that you don't even know losers and liers? Either you have a lot of growing up to do, or you should stay off the water bong if you're going to post here. One minute you're the angry young man; the next you're the prozac baby calling everyone brother after you've pretty much told them to go f*# their mothers.
A nitwit like you has not earned the right to slag my countrymen. Govern your tongue lest my cane reach your backside!

[max autobrakes]

Hey Rockape you still flying up there with this mob ?
Can you tell all these guys what it's really like please.
Nothing like coastwatch eh~!

[flat tyre]

Hey there,

Got some questions:

1. Will CAL move at all on the US$ 13000 bond, I mean, reduce it at all. And does it have to be through their nominated bank?

2. Anyone got an example roster? Even if it's only for two weeks?

3. What are the appartment rental costs over there, and what do you get for your money?

4. Is it possible to work say 3 weeks on, then take 8 or 10 days off and head home for that time?

Thanks people.

[L1011-500]

Hi folks.

I recently had an invitation for a interview with CAL to fly the A330.
I´ve read to bad things about this airline in this forum that i´m allready having second toughts about it.
Could someone (but someone open minded, please) giveme some good advices about them?
It would be nice to hear from someone who actually fly for them, someone from inside.
And by the way Cityshutlle737, they have told me that their available ELO bases are MIAMI, LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO at the moment.
About roostering i have no idea, As far as i know they work on a 22 work 8 consecutive days of

[AQFlyer]

CAL is probably a good place to work if you don't already have a decent job. You will be offered pay based on your experience. For somebody with 6000 or 7000 hours and lots of commercial jet time you can expect an offer of around $4800 US per month to fly the 747-400, so I would expect somewhat less for the A330. You also get $1000 living allowance and some type of bonus each year. You will fly around 80 hours per month with 8 consecutive days off in your base. That is not to say that you won't have additional days off but they may not be consecutive. Upgrade is not likely for non nationals. I spoke to an F/O who had been there for over 8 years. A good western style apartment in the city is around $1500 per month but everything else is dirt cheap. The Taiwanese type rating you will receive is not valid for transfer to an FAA certificate but I don't know about other countries. There is no seniority at least for scheduling purposes and you will fly a mix of long and short haul. I elected to keep my current job where I work very little, get paid quite well and get to live in the good old USA. Which reminds me, I am not aware of any other bases besides Taipei and commuting any distance would be difficult.

[sfblue]

I know for sure that SFO is a base for CAL. If one chooses to base in SFO or other bases other than TPE, you go home on CAL's time. If you choose to base in TPE, you can still travel on your day off, yet it will be on your own time.

I also know that one of their most recent classes, there are 4 people. One American, 2 Brazilians and 1 Russian.

p.s I donot work for CAL, but I know an expa pilot who just joined CAL and in training now.

[Deske1]

Just to let the aspirants and newbies know;

according to the contract,if You fail the training,your deposit money is lost also

Congrats for those who sign this crap :D

[ubpilot]

Just to let the aspirants and newbies know;

according to the contract,if You fail the training,your deposit money is lost also

Congrats for those who sign this crap :D


How's their training? What's the passing rate in China Airlines?

[six7driver]

I was wondering if anyone commutes from YVR to TPE on the 744, and I've heard you can start your pairing from YVR? any truth to this.

Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that. Good for you mate, but don't cr@p on people just because you have an axe to grind with CAL. Everyone who gets to this stage of the game knows what they're getting into, CAL isn't the only company out there making people sign bonds.

[FedupwithCAL]

Not to deflate anybody's expectations but at CAL you will be treated poorly, paid as little as possible and scheduled terribly, especially so, if you get into the so called ELO program. This program is managemd by now called "Kevin" who when he was doing the same job in EVA "Rick" had this "envelope system" in which you would lube the way to get your schedule "corrected". He is more discrete now but still ...once corrupt, always corrupt, so if you are a "player" you may get what you want but if you are not, you will be condemned into scheduling purgatory.

[Deske1]

You are right,if You mean,I would never risk my 20.000 USD on the roulette table or deposit to this company.I have seen the faces of the guys,who lost their hardly earned money after 8-10 weeks of CAL employment,being on the street.
And,no those guys coming from the developed world,where racial discrimination from an employer is a serious crime,they dont know what they are getting into.
To make it clear;an employer,a national flag-carrier where You pay and risk your own 20.000 USD to babysit the "top guns" for 4000 USD/month,where You are always treated as a second class employee,where the open corruption is an everyday and common way of life,threatening the experienced candidates to claim for the cost of the interview in case of saying NO at the screening,so I call this contract/offer as a cr@p. This is not a training bond,this is a deposit.A deposit even before entering the door.
I guess,it would have been a big help for those people who were sacked during the so called training and had to leave CAL with 20.000 USD "lighter."
Of course,everyone has the right to do whatever he/she wants to do with his own money/life.

[FedupwithCAL]

Ahhh, the subject of the bond(s)! That is another loose/loose issue. In your contract it says that you have to advise the company with advance notice when you are planning to resign. Well any logic would tell you that the prorated bond amount would be repaid to you depending on how much time you actually worked after the check out? Well, unfortunately, logic is out the window here as they get "ofended" by somebody with the "crazy" idea of leaving them and go on an outright war path against you, freezing your accounts and then will not pay you for that current month, etc. Everybody who has been a gentleman and "played by the rules" has been burned by them. I know of a guy who had only 2 months left of his 3 year contract and he lost all that was still outstanding to him (about 18,000 USD). Then there is the case of the Canadian F/O who had his papers confiscated to prevent him from leaving the country till the time he would cough up $20,000 USD for which he had his wife get him a 2nd mortgage on his home back in Canada to be able to leave the island (In those days you did not deposit the bond outright, just signed for it). So as has been said here before, it is a Russian roulette and what people have to end up doing is to clean up their accounts of whatever is coming to them and not come back from their home leaves. Honesty at CAL is rewarded by a kick in the teeth. So good luck!

[pitotman]

You ask "I was wondering if anyone commutes from YVR to TPE on the 744"

I commuted for a year and a half before I quit. Deske1 was my roommate and he also commuted from Vancouver.....you can do it. But it is on your 8 days off and you always loose one day going back to Taipei....so really your getting 6-7 days at home....after all the flying you do on your 22 on..........it is not enough!

..." and I've heard you can start your pairing from YVR? Any truth to this."

Yes it is called a ELO program.......suggest you read about it on the many posts here............sounds great in theory but all n all its crap! I could have had it after 6 months and I never considered it. Those expats that do it.........do it cause they HAVE TO!

"Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that."


Mate with all due respect you missed the ball here with your bat! No axe to grind ..........we moved on to better pastures as soon as we could. I suggest you sit down re-read all the posts on here about CAL that I took the time and Deske and others and get all the facts brutha........then hit me up with a retort if you feel just in doing so.......

CAL is by far one of the lowest common denominators in this industry in every aspect. I am shocked everyday the amount of people who leave there with out the company trying to address the revolving door in the flight operations training department. I talk to the two lovely gals in the HR office fairly regular and they are wonderful people who have an impossible task.........


767Driver...........drop me a line when you have read it all here and if you still want to banter about CAL I will spend one of my many days off further educating you ...........


To quote the great ALI G ..........boyaaka


Peace

Pitoman
:D

[six7driver]

Thanks for the response pitotman, and no offence intended to those like you or Deske1 so apologies if that's the case. My point was that there are few to no great jobs out there, and especially here in the great white north. You know that what I'm saying is right, or I'm sure that collegues like you and Deske1 wouldn't of gone to work at CAL in the first place. I'm sure you know better than anyone that CAL's working conditions haven't changed to much in the last 10 years, the addition of the training deposit was maybe because, and certainly no offence intended here, guys like you and many other went back to better jobs at home after a short stay with CAL and with a 744 type rating that MOT recognized (could this have helped your job prospects here at home? me thinks certainly so). I'm not knocking you here, I'm just saying that not so long ago many Jetsgo guys were on the street after losing their entire training bond/deposit right here in this country.
With companies like AC making you work for food for the first 3 years, then pick place to live or left seat cause you can't have both until your too old to care, WJ and their pay system that you have to be financial anaylist to figure out, and no chance of command before I think its 7 years now, commuter type flying (5 legs a day and bring your own lunch) and everywhere else where you have to get into a piece of jurassic equipment in the right seat and subsist on low wages, eternal duty days and skeds that make those at CAL seem, well lets be honest, not so bad.
Other options, CP and their astronaut school where speaking up is career suicide (see 49 examples), no pay for commuting and the fact that almost everyone I know who works there hates almost everyone else they work with. EK and EY and there workcamps/sandboxes with seemingly equally ridiculous recruitment standards and ever worsening terms of endearment, (if I can be so generous), well you have seen the posting here on pprune I'm sure. SIA Cargo and its training bond low pay and managment/pilot relations consistent with all the previous expat places I've mentioned, which reflect the working conditions of the working world in 99 percent of developing contries, and are actually very good by their own countries standards I am absolutely sure. Need I continue?
So my thought is how can CAL be so bad, first I know of someone who works there (does not commute and is on the 340) and yeah he agrees with all you and Deske1 have said about CAL's working environment which is much like most other airlines in the developing world, and I know because I've worked there as well. He told me about the ELO possibilities out of YVR on the 744 and I was just wondering if there was anybody out there actually doing it who could tell me about it. So again many thanks for the info pitotman, I was wondering out of the 22 days on you had of flying did you ever get to go back to YVR, I'm sure you tried to let CAL scheduling to give you a break in this regard, and they didn't obviously.
Cheers to you and Deske1,
glad you guys found greener pastures, hope I will too someday.
peace out:ok:

[ba ba black sheep]

Fedup: <Everybody who has been a gentleman and "played by the rules" has been burned by them. I know of a guy who had only 2 months left of his 3 year contract and he lost all that was still outstanding to him (about 18,000 USD).>

The guy i believe you are referring to was already type rated and had lots of time on the airplane, but was not current at the time of joining CAL as he had since gone onto another type. He did not get a rating from CAL; they merely got him his currency back - yet, they took the $$$ when he left them, 2 months shy of 3-years. That should tell you a lot

[FedupwithCAL]

The ELO for those who are wondering of what it is and how it works out, is an Extended Layover Program through which the company saves the money that would be paid to you as housing allowance in Taipei. So they assign you to these ELO "bases" to where you fly into and out of for your "days off". The first problem with this program is that it is a fixed pattern made by "greasey-fingers Kevin" for 3 to 6 months in advance, so you have no way of selecting any days off to make sure you are home for that wedding, anniversary, your little girl's birthday, etc... "Kevin" will also decide when he will alot an annual leave day now and then on to the eight days of home leave at a 100% of his sole and mischievous discretion. By contract (Which is more often violated than any other document in human history) you accrue 2 days of AL per month, but can only carry forward 30 days of them to the next year so the days in excess will be simply stricken from your balance without you having any say so or compensation (Outright robbery). Of course you will loose days of leave as you depart at midnight plus some minutes on a date but you really will have to be ready at the ELO port on the previous day, so if you have to commute in from somewhere, there is another day you loose. When you fly into, say LAX, YVR, etc that same day because of the time zone change, there is no allocation of the rest period thereafter either so you are being short changed on both ends. Then you may have to "position" yourself say to Anchorage or Frankfurt, once in a while to start your "pattern" from over there. This of course you have to pay out of your own pocket and when the company positions you to some pattern starting port they will send you as ECM (Extra Crew Member) instead of ACM (Additional Crew Member) to avoid crediting you with 50% of the flight time that they have to pay for. Now of course, you appear as ACM but will never be paid for it and good luck trying to get that money paid back to you in the future as you are far and away from the TPE accounting office :rolleyes: for their delight .You also will not be covered by any insurance in case you fall down the aircraft stairs as ECM and that issue the lovely fleet office never really cared to address as well; remember that as ECM for the company you are traveling "on your own" so to speak. You will also find that there is no crew available to cover anybody in the ELO becoming sick, etc... so you may very well asked to "extend" your pattern to cover a sick colleague loosing your days off and never ever getting them repaid, this happens infrequently because everybody tries to not call in sick for that same reason unless it is unavoidable, so yes, they fly injured or sick to not affect "the pattern". And after you covered them, well of course you have to pick up where your new pattern starts, you know there is nobody available to cover you!
So you accept all these things in order to be "based" close to home and then you find out as well that on top of loosing the housing allowance and being put up in the most unbelievable low cost lodging accomodations, etc... you will be taxed at a flat rate of 20% of gross because of the time you will spent out of Taiwan makes you a non-resident. This is a big difference since you cannot make a normal tax return which would have you paying, depending on everybody's situation with the number of dependants, etc, only 11 to 14% of gross income. So you will have less income and pay higher taxes, a real loose/loose situation that I cannot believe is still being accepted by anybody but yes, "you will be based at home"! Every three months you will be ECM'ed back to Taipei for sim training, etc... where you will not get per diems (At 2 bucks an hour it can only be covering a couple of McDonald's happy meals, but hey you are 747-400 pilot!!!) and will not get even the ground transport the other pilots will get back to the hotel and will have to pay for your own taxi. So you will become a third class "citizen" so to speak. You may see an annual leave day be shortened to 20 hours so that they can schedule you out on a midnight plus departure, if you complain, Kevin will tell you with a smirk on his corrupt face that he can do whatever he wants to suit "his patterns" and if that is a 15 minute AL day, so be it! (And there is nobody who will prevent him from doing it) You are now in the ELO world!!! But then you see that a guy has 20 days off in arow in one of those Floridian patterns, how can that be possible, you ask ??? Only in the world of "greasey fingers" is that po$$ible!!!

[roughrider747]

I'm not sure which ELO pattern you are on and which company you work for but I am on the ELO in YVR with CAL and have been there for about two years and it works for me. Depends where you are and who you have worked for in the past CAL is not the worst place in the world to work. I never ECM on the ELO, I operate every flight in and out, the day you get in is not one of your days off, so it is a free day to catch up on sleep then you have 8,9 or 10 days off in a row, depending on AL days. I prefer knowing my days off 6 months in advance so I can plan ahead for vacations, if you have something pop up you can always trade blocks or take unpaid leave( works out to a 1000 USD per week) but I'd give up a grand to spend a week at home. True i don't get living allowance but my hotel is paid for in TPE(which has gotten alot better in the last 6 months), my per diem starts when I leave YVR until I return 20 days later( about 900 USD), I dont pay for positioning in ANC or anywhere else( I've never heard of anyone at CAL doing that unless they are trying to get home on there on time)and I don't pay for taxi's. Kevin is an idiot but what company doesn't have them, I have 16 days off for Christmas and New Years, both years I have been here. The ELO only works if you live in the city you operate in and out off, the previous gentleman referring to paying your way to Frankfurt obviously doesn't live in Frankfurt so he must pay for his own way there. That's his choice. As far as pay and bond go, if I were to start over, I would call an agency that deals with CAL and go through them, I think CAL deals with 1 or 2 agencies. All the guys I know that use them make more money than i do and didn't pay a bond.Your tax situation is better as well since you technically don't work for a Taiwanese company.The previous gentleman does not live in Canada and pay 11-14 percent tax, if he does give me the name of your accountant please

[Deske1]

Try to do the FRA ELO.One leg guaranteed as non-operational ECM.And on the other hand,thanks to the "smart" schedulers,they ECM the locals for opearating the flights out of FRA and v.v.

Bumpy.:uhoh:

[roughrider747]

i believe the gentleman asked about the YVR ELO not the FRA ELO, if you had read my post he ELO in YVR works if you live in or near YVR.yes the FRA ELO sucks but I don't work in FRA and neither did you, like the MIA ELO, if I lived in MIA it would be a good fit for me there.

[Deske1]

"and neither did you"


:eek:

[FedupwithCAL]

There are always guys who can take any kind of c..p and full spoons at a time, but I beleive that most of the guys who are reading this thread, do so to make up their minds if to join CAL or not. If you are already at CAL, by all means make the best of it and enjoy your time as much as you can but don't try to distort reality as CAL and the agencies do in order to recruit pilots. They know very well that once you have signed on and started to work there, they can get away with most anything. If you don't have a job, do apply. If you want to fly the "HEAVY" and get it out of your system no matter what, do apply. If you have a good thing going wherever you are at, do yourself a favor and stay there.
If you want to join, do it through an broker as they pretty much respect those contracts but if you come direct you are up s..t creek without a paddle. If you choose to sign on as a direct-hire pilot, I can promise you that you will be in for a very rough rollercoaster ride. They will change the conditions, salary and most of what your contract states before the ink has dried. They are very, very, very dishonest people and are only interested in one thing: Money. And consequently, they will try to keep it from going your way whichever way they can. I have experienced both sides of the contracting options the broker and the direct-hire scheme and the broker is the only way to go IF you have to.
You will have no loss of income insurance and can pretty much rely only on the national health insurance in Taiwan (Which is very good I must admit as it is managed by the government and not by CAL). So if you are young and crazy (very crazy) you may give it a shot, if you are not, stay away.

[n818af]

Hi guys, what is the average TT and jet time to get a call from CAL? Any North American Chinese working at CAL? If so how do they treat them? Appreciate the info!

[Deske1]

Its "funny".The only chinese out of Taiwan I have known(he is not here anymore) got some kind of "double" treatment.

CAL gave him all the "benefits" according to the momentarly needs of the management,treated him as an expat one day,on the other as a local.

But at least he understood the exact opinion said in chinese right behind him...

[n818af]

Its "funny".The only chinese out of Taiwan I have known(he is not here anymore) got some kind of "double" treatment.
CAL gave him all the "benefits" according to the momentarly needs of the management,treated him as an expat one day,on the other as a local.
But at least he understood the exact opinion said in chinese right behind him...

Feel the same way when I was in mainland China. :}

Does he have a lot of experience or will get in with less time?

Thanks!

[mellofello]

Nothing has changed at CAL if anything it is getting worse, EXPATS are leaving in droves! This from friends that I have that are still there. My advice, there are better places to go than TPE!

[BUSTRASH]

I have a Interview in the 3SEP. Anybody have info on the actual interview, written test, what to study. Any help would be aprreciated.
Regards

[v1r8]

what is your background?

what are their competitive mins these days?

[BUSTRASH]

4700 Total 2200Jet F/O A300 and A320 Type

[BUSTRASH]

Yes My Interview Has Been Canceled.