Switching between counter and clockwise helis

[Simon853]

Just wondering: How do you folks that routinely fly helicopters with clockwise and then counter-clockwise main rotors handle the changes in behaviour, opposite anti-torque pedal effect, etc. It seems like you'd have to learn two opposing sets of muscle-memory behaviours. Is it something the noggin adapts to over time and becomes sub-conscious and a non-event, or is it something you always have to work at?

Si

[Gordy]

Switched between a Bell and an Astar, sometimes making the switch 3 or 4 times a day---no big deal---fly the aircraft and react to the aircraft without over thinking. The only time I had to think was when I had a stuck pedal---then I reverted to "power and non-power pedal" thinking.

[[email protected]]

Used to fly Lynx and Gazelle regularly and just said out loud to myself just before lifting to the hover which one I was flying - once I put the correct pedal in for take off the rest went well.

I had to teach an new instructor on the gazelle advanced autos in the morning and then do the same thing with a new instructor on the Lynx in the afternoon - that nearly blew my mind trying to get all the patter in the right order and in the right sense.

[ShyTorque]

I too have changed between clockwise and anti-clockwise main rotors a number of times (every time I have gone to a new job, as it happens).

As far as which pedal on the first lift-off, if you aren't sure, put the pedals neutral and look out the front, take it gently and just react to what you see & feel the aircraft doing before the aircraft comes off the ground. A crosswind can, after all, make a heck of a difference, in any event.

I became concerned about the constant reference to "lucky left / rotten right" so heavily pushed on the western side of the big pond with regard to tail rotor malfunctions (on an anti-clockwise rotor of course, that works, but a lot of pilots over there still don't don't realise there is another way for the rotors to rotate). Getting this mixed up could be disastrous if you are flying a European, clockwise rotor heli at the time....

As a QHI, I put some thought into this for my own benefit and something to pass on to other pilots in a similar situation. The secret is simply to remember the retreating blade side. THAT'S the "lucky side" when it goes pear shaped at the end of the tail boom.

Lucky to get the cross wind on the retreating blade side, and lucky to get the nose off to the retreating blade side on the approach. If you think about it, it's lucky to apply pedal towards the retreating blade side on first lift off, too.

Hopefully, whatever you fly, you should remember which way the rotor went when you started it up.....

[Letsby Avenue]

Just remember which one is 'Raise - Right' or alternatively 'Lower - Left' and err which one isn't:hmm:

[GLSNightPilot]

The only time I ever had any problem at all was when coming around for landing, and dropping the collective for descent. I would sometimes automatically push the wrong pedal, but it didn't take long to see the yaw, say "Aw S***", and reverse the pedals. Takeoff was just a matter of keeping the nose straight, because it's smart to take the liftoff slow and easy.

[Brilliant Stuff]

I changed from clockwise to anti-clockwise without noticing for two weeks.:eek:

I had done a full conversion onto type during week 1.

[Devil 49]

Three issues, two directly related to cw/ccw, and that one only during the spool up from idle to flight, on slick pads and windy conditions, and then only if the grey matter hasn't reminded me that it shoud be left/right pedal...
Next, which way the ac tilts into the hover- Astars incline to the right, Bells left.
But the real excitement is in control response. If I'm going from the Astar to the Bell, for the first few fractions of a second as I lift, I'm correcting all the above, and there's often a bit of translation, for and aft, or left and right. The Bell's seem less harmonious in rate- much more longitudinal control input than lateral required.
You see why I'm not a test pilot...

[Teefor Gage]

Just to make sure the brain is engaged in the correct sense, may I suggest that you climb in the left hand door for anti-clockwise rotor systems and the right hand door for clockwise systems................ Just one thing left to check...... would that be anti-clockwise when viewed from above or below the rotor system???
Guess I'll just have to stick to the time trusted method - ask the co-pilot to do the first lift off and rest my feet gently on the pedals to follow through........

[Farmer 1]

Learning the pedals was easy, it was the other, more mundane things that took a while.

Like, for instance, trying to extend the landing light on approach at night, only to find both engines winding down, accompanied by warning lights, RPM warnings etc.

Identical switches, identical position, slightly different purposes.

[oldbeefer]

I fly both most days. Just 'pick a marker'!

[Thud_and_Blunder]

People here switch between the 135 and the 365 without too much grief - stick to what the QHIs on the forum say about using markers.

Alternatively, fly both simultaneously - much easier (ask any Chinook/Helix/Huskie/K-max driver)

[Helipolarbear]

Just try to keep the tree(s), bush, babe's etc from moving right to left or left to right!!!:}

[oldbeefer]

T & B - are you really only 51?

[albatross]

As one old instructor growled at me (frequently and with ever inceasing volume)
"Use the collective to control yer altitude."
"Use the Cyclic to control yer position over the ground."
"Use the pedals as necessary to control yer heading."

To him all helicopters were the same - a continual series of corrections for your last mistake!:E

[Flying Bull]

Hi all,
As far as which pedal on the first lift-off, if you aren't sure, put the pedals neutral and look out the front, take it gently and just react to what you see & feel the aircraft doing before the aircraft comes off the ground. A crosswind can, after all, make a heck of a difference, in any event.
Shy Torque is absolutely right.
I'm just getting an extra rating - the rotor not only turning the wrong way - also the helicoter has a fenestron, which a different reaction and pedalways and additional wheels instead of skids...
On the first lift off, I was 90° out of the heading - just the habbit.
But if you just play it gently and keep the nose where it has to be by doing, what you always have done - it is no problem.
Just don't jerk the bird in the sky - lift it off smoothly - and everything will be o.k. ;-)
Greetings Flying Bull

[krobar]

I found it tougher to learn which way the cyclic should point intially on lift-off, than the pedals, plus the adition of hydrualics meant the machine 'jumped' into the air before I could suss out the proper possition while light on the skids. This resulted in a 'airtaxi' to the left as soon as i lifted off.
Valuable lesson learned, and something I teach students now, lift off slowly. Fly the machine as soon as you start lifting the collective, not once airborne.

[212man]

Krobar says: "lift off slowly. Fly the machine as soon as you start lifting the collective, not once airborne":ok:

I think that sums it all up! For some reason there exists a mystique about the fact that rotors turn in different directions; there is none. Just fly what you see. The only time it is an issue is, as has been said, when you have some TR control/power problem and need to start analysing how to land. Then you need to visualise which way the nose turns and where you have the 'power pedal' relative to neutral.

In fact, the advice given should always be applied, even if you fly the same type all the time; there is very rarely a good reason to lift off quickly!;)

[Brilliant Stuff]

Flying Bull you hit the nail on the head.

Is this an EC155 by any chance you are getting your mits on?

[MightyGem]

Just to make sure the brain is engaged in the correct sense, may I suggest that you climb in the left hand door for anti-clockwise rotor systems
Tried that, but had problems climbing over the centre console!!:p

[rotorboy]

nedver had a problme switiching, between the tow. Like many others I would often fly both in the same day, severla times. 350/500/206... what always made me think and a little nervous was getting out of the 500 after a couple of hours, and into the 350. You would lose your sense of spatial awareness....

i get that .. man this spot looks awful small! feeling

RB

[Teefor Gage]

Rotorboy nedver had a problme switiching, between the tow. Like many others I would often fly both in the same day, severla times. 350/500/206...

With spelling problems like that, it's a small wonder you don't see the difference between clockwise and counter-clockwise rotor systems.....:\

[flyer43]

Are there still two AEF squadrons at Woodvale? I used to fly there with MUAS in the early 80's when they had Chipmunks.

[212man]

Surely you mean one AEF and two UAS's? There was 10 AEF, MASUAS (was MUAS) and some other outfit whose name escapes me;)

[flyer43]

Good morning 212man! Or in your case, good afternoon!!
OK, so there are/were two UAS's - It would seem from your note that MUAS became MASUAS (Mancunia and Salford). The other UAS was LUAS (Liverpuddle) together with 10 AEF.
Fit of binger trouble on my part in my forst nite. :hmm:

[MightyGem]

Are there still two AEF squadrons at Woodvale? I used to fly there with MUAS in the early 80's when they had Chipmunks
Two UAS's(Liverpool and Manchester) plus the AEF flight.

[212man]

"The other UAS was LUAS (Liverpuddle)....."

As I said, some other outfit...:ok: