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N380UA
7th Mar 2006, 12:34
In light of the "The Iluminati (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214542)" tread by Mr. ex, let me ask if any fellow ppuner is a mason? What do you do as one, what is life as, what must you do what cant you do etc.
Just wondering what's all about.

jimgriff
7th Mar 2006, 12:37
During my initiation I was taught to be cautious......:suspect:

pigboat
7th Mar 2006, 12:40
But for you I will half it..:suspect:

G-CPTN
7th Mar 2006, 12:40
Father was, Grandfather too. Me not (never invited).

jimgriff
7th Mar 2006, 12:49
....and begin.....:suspect:

ex_matelot
7th Mar 2006, 13:06
hmm,one mention of masonry and jetblast is removed from the pprune menu.....hmmmm

Funny handshakes and mouseclicks one imagines ;)

phoenix son
7th Mar 2006, 13:34
In the words of the esteemed Mr Cleese, "I've got a second-hand apron"...:E

Grainger
7th Mar 2006, 13:41
Free Mason

Mason's innocent - OK !

N380UA
7th Mar 2006, 13:47
hmm,one mention of masonry and jetblast is removed from the pprune menu.....hmmmm
Funny handshakes and mouseclicks one imagines ;)


the missing JB did scary me a bit there. Coincidence?

Yup, Mason is innocent.

BOAC
7th Mar 2006, 13:53
I've had to put my apron on ebay

Jerricho
7th Mar 2006, 13:55
And I think I bought it :(

tony draper
7th Mar 2006, 13:56
Father was Grandfather, MR C-G? one thought that kind of thing only happened in the Apalachians.
:rolleyes:

BOAC
7th Mar 2006, 13:59
Does it still have the stains, Jerri?:eek:

Jerricho
7th Mar 2006, 14:01
Nah, I beat the sh*t out of it.

Davaar
7th Mar 2006, 14:04
I knew they would miss Tartan Gannet some day.

FLCH
7th Mar 2006, 14:04
Father was Grandfather, MR C-G? one thought that kind of thing only happened in the Apalachians.
:rolleyes:
Nah happens here in Georgia too...I just found out if I divorce my wife she, still remains my sister.....

BOAC
7th Mar 2006, 14:19
Damn! - and I thought I'd get away with brown leather....................

Echo Zulu Yankee
7th Mar 2006, 14:26
I attended a Masonic "event" just before Christmas at the invite of the head of the Lodge (An electrician friend of my good ladies)

It was a bingo and quiz evening, held in a school hall in Southampton, and halfway through someone ran out to get fish n chips.

All seemed very, very, boring to me - plus all the members were 75 or over.

Only deals being done were property...and although Im sure a few of em were slighly dodgy I'd reckon it was mostly above board.

Was mind numbingly boring so I shan't be going back. Certainly put to rest some of my preconceptions about the "club" though!

EzY

tony draper
7th Mar 2006, 14:30
Just a kind of Mafia in it, but without the fish wrapped up in newspaper.:uhoh:

Jerricho
7th Mar 2006, 14:31
Yeah, but what you didn't see what happened after you left..........

http://tt.mainstreet.net/ttoutpost/Homer_The_Great3.jpg

BOAC
7th Mar 2006, 14:48
Jerri - there is a thread for members' pictures already on this forum.:p

Are you REALLY a WM?

Huck
7th Mar 2006, 15:18
My pop is the grand poo-bah at the local lodge.

I hear people say they run the world and I have to laugh. They are good at drinking beer and cooking barbeque, though....

Flyt3est
7th Mar 2006, 15:53
The Masons.... we're not a secret society... just a society with secrets:ok:

tinpis
7th Mar 2006, 16:16
Be an interesting day they reveal the family names of Jesus offspring.

Jerricho
7th Mar 2006, 17:15
Jerricho is a good place to start.............

(Don't tell anyone ;) )

tony draper
7th Mar 2006, 17:15
One has to know the secret phrases of course.

"For the sake of the washer womans pinny and the penny bun, art thou a traveller"?

"Aye a traveller from the North"

"The North?,wither North"

"From Sunderland brother"

"SUNDERLAND!!!**** off yer Makum [email protected]"

:rolleyes:

Damienmk
7th Mar 2006, 21:44
In my lodge Mackems are always black balled too. Can't have their kind polluting the temple!

Fliegenmong
7th Mar 2006, 23:01
Stranger 1 - "I used to buy petrol out on the highway. but then I saw the light":E

Stranger 2 "I too have seen the light";)

(Seen the light you see ' 'tis the masonic code) - Secret handshake & they're off :p

Isn't Prince Charles a freemason??
:yuk:

Justiciar
7th Mar 2006, 23:25
Don't knock it until you've tried it:

"more ancient than the ___ ____ or _____ _____, more noble than the ____ or any other order in existance"

benhurr
8th Mar 2006, 00:12
No, Prince Charles is not a Freemason.

Fliegenmong
8th Mar 2006, 01:47
How do you know he is not a freemason?? Did you ask and he said good Lord no!! I thought he was up near top of the tree, but I was only once told that by an Englishman who did not care for the free masons at all

pigboat
8th Mar 2006, 03:34
How do you know he is not a freemason?

Ve haff vays... :E

tinpis
8th Mar 2006, 04:08
Ve haff vays...


The secret Masonic nob squeeze? :hmm:

Paterbrat
8th Mar 2006, 09:11
To preserve the knowledge.

sixmilehighclub
8th Mar 2006, 09:17
My Aunt & Uncle are. I remember them saying it permits them to take sheep accross London Bridge on a certain day of the year, or something like that.

um... Why would you do that???

Oh well, they are publicans, maybe roast lamb or a good curry was on the menu? :E

Paterbrat
8th Mar 2006, 09:27
There you go, tricky think taking sheep across London bridge on any day of the year. Particularly with the new Mayor. The expertise involved is a long held secret going back a very long time.
Now I've revealed that watch out for the pale one with the blood dripping down his right leg and a limp.

benhurr
8th Mar 2006, 09:47
SMH
Being able to drive sheep across London Bridge has nothing to do with being a freemason. That is a right of being a Freeman of the City of London. I think they can urinate in public too!
It is a great honour BTW, goes back centuries to around 1237.
Until 1835 the Freedom of the City - together with membership of one of the ancient guilds which were the forerunners of today's Livery Companies - was essential to anyone who wished to exercise a trade in the City.
A number of ancient privileges are associated with the Freedom - although they are more a product of collective memory than of documented evidence. They include the right to herd sheep over London bridge, to go about the City with a drawn sword, and if convicted of a capital offence, to be hung with a silken rope. Other advantages are said to have included the right to avoid being press-ganged, to be married in St Paul's Cathedral, buried in the City and to be drunk and disorderly without fear of arrest.
Freemen used to be given a casket in which to keep their Freedom certificate (right), as it was a document that was carried around as we would carry a driving license today.
Link here (http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/leisure_heritage/freedom_of_city/priveleges.htm)

doubleu-anker
8th Mar 2006, 09:52
If you can get any mason to come on board and admit it, then I ask the question, why the secrecy?? I say this "If it is secret, it is sinister, period."

A Christian place of worship is open to all.

That old chestnut, "well I wouldn't divulge my credit card pin number to you, so why should I divulge any other secrets" just doesn't cut ice with me. Do they trust each other that much they tell each other their pin numbers?

So, guys, crawl out from under your stones and tell us, why the secrecy?

Paterbrat
8th Mar 2006, 09:55
In summary if you were driving the sheep over pissed, waving a sword with your beer in a solid bottom tankard, a big bulge in your pocket an edge of casket sticking out, your dick hanging out and a coil of silk rope over your shoulder you are not freemason but a freeman. Got it.
Freemasons drive the sheep over with aprons ( of sheepskin) the drawn sword is back with with the Tyler at the gate of the Lodge, and Baphomets head is carried in a silver box at the front of the flock.

Justiciar
8th Mar 2006, 10:19
So, guys, crawl out from under your stones and tell us, why the secrecy?

Secrecy about what exactly. If you are talking about the ritual, then you can find every bit of ritual for every one of the degrees and orders in masonary on the web. Of course, unless you have been in a lodge and seen it performed, it wont mean an awful lot to you. Candidates are free to read up on it all in advance of coming in, but that would tend to spoil the surprise of the ceremony, which is a pity.

Of course the ceremonies and meetings are private, but then so are alot of clubs and organisations. Your local golf club probably wont hand out its membership list to an outsider just for the asking.

If you are talking about secrecy of membership, I don't believe many masons actively conceal their membership. The Norfolk Provincial Grand Master recently appeared on the radio to talk about masonary.

A Christian place of worship is open to all.

But a lodge is not a place of worship of any sort:hmm:

Thunderbird 3
8th Mar 2006, 10:29
masonery is open to all not just christians.

sixmilehighclub
8th Mar 2006, 10:33
nothing to do with being a freemason. That is a right of being a Freeman of the City of London.

Doh!! That's the one! Hey I may be blonde but i'm not intelligent.
Hmmm. Thats not right.
I'm not intelligent but I am blonde.
Hang on, I'll get it in a minute...
I'm blonde but I...

Oh I'll come back to you in a mo... Standby.....

Seeing my Aunt and Uncle in a whole new light....

Paterbrat
8th Mar 2006, 10:33
Open to all who believe in a deity. Apparently due to the persecution of the Templar order by the one whom they believed embodied their faith and thereby shaking their trust in a 'one true faith.'

Justiciar
8th Mar 2006, 10:53
due to the persecution of the Templar

There is no proven link between Masonary and the Templars. The reference to "God" in the ceremony was changed in the eighteenth century to something more faith neutral. Some side orders in Masonary do require Christian belief, such as Rose Croix.

benhurr
8th Mar 2006, 11:45
Don't quite see how admitting to being a Mason on an anymous forum would do anything to dispel the myths about secrecy etc.

Personally, I think that the support of charities, the support of the poor or the ill, the care shown to widows are far more important than the odd dodgy handshake.

Wyler
8th Mar 2006, 12:06
Me and Mrs Wyler have been invited to a Masons Ladies evening weekend after next. As I am a Catholic (allegedly), should I wear body armour?

tony draper
8th Mar 2006, 12:20
We of the Obsidian Order are still very exclusive. :E

Heliport
8th Mar 2006, 14:01
Surely doubleu-anker asked a perfectly reasonable question:
Why the secrecy?
Justiciar
Of course the ceremonies and meetings are private, but then so are a lot of clubs and organisations. Your local golf club probably wont hand out its membership list to an outsider just for the asking.

Isn't that simply evading the question? And disingenuous?
Since you mention golf clubs ...........
How many golf clubs do you know that have secret signals/signs only recognised by other members?
And different secret signals/signs to identify seniority in the club?

Do golf clubs require new members to be blindfolded, partially-clothed and to indulge in initiation rituals involving daggers, nooses and coffins?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Freemason.jpg http://theresalduncan.typepad.com/witostaircase/images/masonic_initiate.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/initiation02.jpg




Did golf clubs ever require members to swear oaths to keep the secrets of the club “under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut, my tongue torn out by the root......or being branded as a wilfully perjured individual void of all moral worth......”
Or, if they progressed to the next level of membership, a ritual death of “...of having my left breast laid open, my heart torn therefrom, and given to the ravenous birds, or devouring beasts of the field, as prey...”
Or, at the next level, “...being severed in two, my bowels burnt to ashes, and those ashes scattered over the face of the Earth and wafted by the four winds, that no trace of remembrance of so vile a wretch may be found among men....”
The 'penalties' may (I hope :eek: ) have been symbolic for a long time, and those actual words were removed from UK initiations about 20 years ago, but the requirement of strict secrecy is still there.
The above are just the 3 degrees of masonry. Beyond that are side orders - the 'Scottish Rite' (degrees 4-32 and an honorary 33rd degree), the 'York Rite' (Royal Arch, Royal Select and Knight Templar) and the 'Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine', commonly known as 'Shriners'.

If the 'mutual assistance' to fellow members is innocent rather than sinister, why not be open about it?
Why the need for secrecy?

H.

benhurr dispel the myths about secrecy etc I think most people now know the 'secrets' of freemasonry are just the secret signs to identify masons of the same 'degree' but where would you say the fault lies for the myths developing?

Do you think the 'initiation' ceremonies encourage or dispel the myths? (Even with more modern words than those quoted above which were abolished in the UK in 1986.)

If there are societies, with secret signs and secret handshakes, which help other members of the same society gain advantage in their jobs/careers, is it any wonder some people take a dim view?

Paterbrat
8th Mar 2006, 14:18
Have heard that the oaths were in the old days to produce a consequence at least as harsh as those suffered by ones betrayed by a traitor.

The Templar connection is only one of many bruited about J.

Heliport
8th Mar 2006, 14:44
Could be, but why now, in modern days -

- still the (bizarre?) ritual?

- still strict oaths of secrecy?

- still secret signs, handshakes, coded expressions between members?


I remember a helicopter pilot asking another over a drink after work if he was a 'cautious' man. The younger of the two, obviously hoping to impress, gave a very full long answer explaining that he was cautious, not over-cautious, not too cautious but sensibly cautious etc etc etc.
I chuckled quietly to myself, until the questioner eventually went off to buy the next round, giving me a chance to explain what he actually meant - when I'd stopped laughing. ;)

doubleu-anker
8th Mar 2006, 14:46
Justiciar

"But a lodge is not a place of worship of any sort" BS! It is worship, devil worship. Up there with the very worst, e.g., voodoo.

benhurr

Oh yes there is good work done and they certainly also look after their own (interests). In fact so much so, that if you "upset" one, in all probability they will "gang up" upon you and do their best to "finish you off."

Heliport

Very eloquently put and of course the pictures demonstrate the demonic nature of this society, not to mention the tomfoolery. BTW do you have any other photos of them, for e.g. of them rolling around the floor wrapped in a piece of carpet?

benhurr
8th Mar 2006, 17:44
Oh yes there is good work done and they certainly also look after their own (interests). In fact so much so, that if you "upset" one, in all probability they will "gang up" upon you and do their best to "finish you off."

Utter tosh. Who were amongst the first of the charitable institutions of this country to donate a 6 figure sum to the tsunami appeal?

Gang up? that would be like being licked to death by a dozen puppies. Most masons I know are very retired. How they could help me in my career I really don't know.

Fair enough things may have been different in the past - but the obligations actually remain pretty similar to what is posted above (even the words, or so I have been informed).

Funny how the symbolic penalties always appear but no mention of the bits regarding family, society in general and workplace.

Very eloquently put and of course the pictures demonstrate the demonic nature of this society, not to mention the tomfoolery. BTW do you have any other photos of them, for e.g. of them rolling around the floor wrapped in a piece of carpet?

Demonic? What you can see the cloven feet in the slippers or do the horns give it away?

People have asked questions and have been given pretty comprehensive answers, some of the reactions seem to highlight the modern way of thinking of: "I don't want to do it, I know very little about it, but why should anyone else take any pleasure from it?" An attitude I find a little sad

Heliport
8th Mar 2006, 19:56
"People have asked questions and have been given pretty comprehensive answers"
Hmm, not sure about that.

The questions about secrecy haven't been answered.


Why the (bizarre?) ritual?

Why the strict oaths of secrecy?

Why the secret signs, handshakes and coded language between members?

Rick Storm
8th Mar 2006, 20:21
Mason's they are a good bunch of chaps. My Uncle (UK) got me off with a conviction. Having said that, they raise money for a plethora of charities. Good eggs.

G-CPTN
8th Mar 2006, 21:51
In fact so much so, that if you "upset" one, in all probability they will "gang up" upon you and do their best to "finish you off."

Well THAT explains a lot. I've wondered for several years why I seem to have been 'persecuted' by certain sections of society. Just to work out now which one of them I upset.
I think I've got it . . .

tony draper
8th Mar 2006, 22:19
We all look after our own interests, be self, family, office politics, Union or professional body, the world is always out to **** one, so we need to make alliances to survive, thats all the Masons are, best of luck to em.
:cool:

benhurr
8th Mar 2006, 23:02
Well I hope this then answers some of your questions heliport, if you require anything else then follow the link.

Freemasonry: Your Questions Answered

Q Why are you a secret society?
A We are not, but lodge meetings, like those of many other groups, are private and open only to members. The rules and aims of Freemasonry are available to the public. Meeting places are known and in many areas are used by the local community for activities other than Freemasonry. Members are encouraged to speak openly about Freemasonry.

Q What are the secrets of Freemasonry?
A The secrets in Freemasonry are the traditional modes of recognition which are not used indiscriminately, but solely as a test of membership, e.g. when visiting a Lodge where you are not known.

Q What happens at a lodge meeting?
A The meeting is in two parts. As in any association there is a certain amount of administrative procedure - minutes of last meeting, proposing and balloting for new members, discussing and voting on financial matters, election of officers, news and correspondence. Then there are the ceremonies for admitting new Masons and the annual installation of the Master and appointment of officers. The three ceremonies for admitting a new Mason are in two parts - a slight dramatic instruction in the principles and lessons taught in the Craft followed by a lecture in which the candidate's various duties are spelled out.

Q Why do Freemasons take oaths?
A New members make solemn promises concerning their conduct in Lodge and in society. Each member also promises to keep confidential the traditional methods of proving that he is a Freemason which he would use when visiting a lodge where he is not known. Freemasons do not swear allegiances to each other or to Freemasonry. Freemasons promise to support others in times of need, but only if that support does not conflict with their duties to God, the law, their family or with their responsibilities as a Citizen.

Q Why do your 'obligations' contain hideous penalties?
A They no longer do. When Masonic ritual was developing in the late 1600s and 1700s it was quite common for legal and civil oaths to include physical penalties and Freemasonry simply followed the practice of the times. In Freemasonry, however, the physical penalties were always symbolic and were never carried out. After long discussion, they were removed from the promises in 1986.

Copyright 2002: The United Grand Lodge of England


Link to Grand Lodge Here. (http://www.grandlodge-england.org/masonry/YQA-secret-society.htm)

I hope that I haven't broken the JB rules by quoting but it is "from the horse's (or goat's as some of you would like to believe) mouth."


Sorry I nearly forgot about the ritual question:

Again from the same site:

The other theory is that in the late 1500s and early 1600s, there was a group which was interested in the promotion of religious and political tolerance in an age of great intolerance when differences of opinion on matters of religion and politics were to lead to bloody civil war. In forming Freemasonry, they were trying to make better men and build a better world. As the means of teaching in those days was by allegory and symbolism, they took the idea of building as the central allegory on which to form their system. The main source of allegory was the Bible, the contents of which were known to everyone even if they could not read, and the only building described in detail in the Bible was King Solomon's Temple, which became the basis of the ritual. The old trade guilds provided them with their basis administration of a Master, Wardens, Treasurer and Secretary, and the operative mason's tools provided them with a wealth of symbols with which to illustrate the moral teachings of Freemasonry.

Hopefully that is a better explanation.

G-CPTN
9th Mar 2006, 00:02
It'll never catch on . . .

Charlie Foxtrot India
9th Mar 2006, 03:09
MR. WIGGIN: Well, may I ask you to reconsider? I mean, you wouldn't regret it. Think of the tourist trade.

CITY GENT #1: No, no, it's-- it's just that we wanted a block of flats and not an abattoir.

MR. WIGGIN: Yes, well, that's the sort of blinkered, philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome, spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement! You whining, hypocritical toadies, with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding Masonic secret handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards! Well, I wouldn't become a freemason now if you went down on your lousy, stinking knees and begged me!

CITY GENT #2: Well, we're sorry you feel like that, but we, um, did... want... a block of flats. Nice, though, the abattoir is. Huh huh.

MR. WIGGIN: Oh, p-p-p-p the abattoir.

(He dashes forward and kneels in front of them.)

That's not important, but if one of you could put in a word for me, I'd love to be a freemason. Freemasonry opens doors. I mean, um, I-- I was a bit on edge just now, but-- but if I was a mason, I'd just sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.

CITY GENT #1: Thank you.

MR. WIGGIN: I've got a second-hand apron.

CITY GENT #2: Thank you.

(Mr. Wiggin hurries to the door but stops...)

MR. WIGGIN: I nearly got in at Hendon.

CITY GENT #1: Thank you.

2R
9th Mar 2006, 14:29
I found the second hand apron joke funny ?? nudge nudge wink winkl
I could be wrong and do not want to give away secrets but i thought that every entered apprentice was given a new white apron ?
:} :} :}

Capt.KAOS
9th Mar 2006, 16:52
"On 4 February 1789, Washington was elected first president of the United States and John Adams his vice-president. The inauguration was on 30 April. The oath was administered by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Grand Lodge...The marshal of the day was another Freemason, General Jacob Morton. Yet another Freemason, General Morgan Lewis, was Washington's escort... Washington himself at the time was Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22, Virginia... On 14 December, Alexander Hamilton submitted proposals for establishing a National Bank. Jefferson opposed them but Washington signed them through. On the American dollar bill was printed the 'Great Seal' of the United States. It is unmistakably Freemasonic - an all seeing eye in a triangle above a thirteen-stepped, four-sided pyramid, beneath which a scroll proclaims the advent of a 'new secular order,' one of Freemasonry's long-standing dreams."

Dan Brown, eat yer heart out...

360 degree mason
10th Mar 2006, 08:37
"On 4 February 1789, Washington was elected first president of the United States and John Adams his vice-president. The inauguration was on 30 April. The oath was administered by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Grand Lodge...The marshal of the day was another Freemason, General Jacob Morton. Yet another Freemason, General Morgan Lewis, was Washington's escort... Washington himself at the time was Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22, Virginia... On 14 December, Alexander Hamilton submitted proposals for establishing a National Bank. Jefferson opposed them but Washington signed them through. On the American dollar bill was printed the 'Great Seal' of the United States. It is unmistakably Freemasonic - an all seeing eye in a triangle above a thirteen-stepped, four-sided pyramid, beneath which a scroll proclaims the advent of a 'new secular order,' one of Freemasonry's long-standing dreams."

Dan Brown, eat yer heart out...


All masonry originated thousands of years ago from a place called Kemet.

Western freemasonry isnt really a secret organisation, its an organisation with the secrets taken from Kemet.

Thats all. but it makes me laugh when my masonic freinds run around saying " i can't give up the secret":} :8 :8 :ooh:

The rituals such as the grand masters grip of the lion's paw came from an initiation at a place what greeks now call the 'sphinx'.

they tap into the natural spiritual force that is in the atmosphere, just like the people in ancient kemet.

The all-seeing eye is the eye of Ausar (osiris). the seven stars represent ausar. the square represents to square your morality. they walk with the left foot forward to trample down evil so the heart can go forward. the heart must be weighed with that of the feather. the trowel to spread brotherhood. blah blah blah...

but brother masons, i ask this: how can you become a grand master at the blue lodge? few degrees above freezing? lol.