DONCASTER/SHEFFIELD

[gary4444]

A few pieces of news from the airport.

*A planning application has been made to the local council for a rail station on site.

*A planning application has also been made for an access road on site. This road is being built from the terminal towards where the M18 link road is proposed, and so it seems the go ahead will be given soon for the link road.

*Thomas Cook have announced plans for a peak summer season service to Gran Canaria with Air Europa.

*The airport has taken delivery of two new push-back tugs.

*There will be a dedication service on 31st March at the airport for the new onsite RAF memorial.

*Work on the airports first hotel is due to commence in late April.

[DTVAirport]

Interesting, this is the sort of expansion you'd expect from such a new airport, sensible moves.

I include Doncaster Sheffield as one of my local airports, even though I live really near MME, I also include NCL and LBA as my local airports and I'm thinking about adding HUY to the list. I know that was slightly off topic but I just thought I'd share :)

[richxby]

Hi, well if all you say is true then thats great news! Work at the airport now and have to say its a joy to work there, nice staff, nice facilities and hopefully it can only get better! Just hope it doesn't get too big too quickly like some places have! Have to say a rail link would be fab and also improved road access as don't like driving down all those back roads at stupid o clock in winter! Also I know we (TFly) are having at least one 757/767 based at DSA for all or part of the week in summer and of course longhaul is on its way, so its a really exciting time!

[sam dilly]

Well done DSA with 2 new tugs.
Do you have a decent Ambulift yet?
Great airport friendly staff!

[mpr27]

Yes. New ambulift been in action for a couple of months or so now. :)

[gary4444]

More DSA news,

*An application has been made with the local council for the building of 8 two storey business units in 5 blocks on the business park.

*ILS upgrade from Cat 1 to Cat 3 will take place at the end of the year.

*The airport fire category is now Cat 7 with Cat 8 available on request.

*Signature Flight Support has been appointed as DSA's Fixed Base Operator (FBO) for General Aviation aircraft and commences operation on the 1st of May 2006.

*Apron parking stands are currently 4 x Code E and 4 x Code D. Further parking for 20 additional aircraft is available. Up to B747 capable. An upgrade of the apron and taxiway capacity will commence at the end of the year.

[Fly Better!]

Are there any other airlines planning on bieng based there in the near future? I could handle a job where I dont have to drive an hour to work :p

[sat1]

[quote=sam dilly]Well done DSA with 2 new tugs.
Do you have a decent Ambulift yet?
hey people, now you have 2 new tugs can stansted have the one you pinched from them on a short loan?

[jettesen]

anyone know how the easyjet - geneva route is performing from here?

[airhumberside]

DSA-GVA is not continuing into this summer. No word on if it will return next winter

February saw 5734 pax on the route - 66% load factors
January saw 4781 pax on the route - 54% load factors

(The load factor figures are from a DSA forum)

[qcode]

An Aviation College is also being opened on the airport site to train future Flight Attendants and Maintenance Engineers.

[NorthOfRiver]

DSA-GVA is not continuing into this summer. No word on if it will return next winter
February saw 5734 pax on the route - 66% load factors
January saw 4781 pax on the route - 54% load factors
(The load factor figures are from a DSA forum)

Easyjet have seen sense and this month I believe they are paying a bit more for an earlier slot.
I have flown four times from DSA to GVA. Two of the times the plane departed at 8pm and arrived at 11pm in Geneva. :confused:
The other two times the plane departed at midday and about 2:30pm. :ok:
The contrast between the morning/afternoon and evening flights were remarkable. The evening flights were about half full, the morning/afternoon flights were full to the rafters.
Arriving at your hotel at gone midnight is not conducive to good travel.

[gary4444]

The midday flights are at the weekend and so are bound to be fuller as more people take short breaks then.

Thomsonfly yesterday banned a teenager from their flights for life after he allegedly joked that he had a hand-grenade in his shoe whilst at the airport. You would have thought by now that even the most idiotic person would have learnt not to joke about security after the publicity from other such incidents :eek:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/south_yorkshire/4849292.stm

[lakeside84]

Anyone heard anything about a new route announcement this week? my sister works in radio and she's heard that all the press have been invited down this week. sounds good!

[gary4444]

The press have been invited down for the RAF Heritage Memorial dedication ceremony which takes place on 31 March. There will be a number of fly-by's from R.A.F aircraft, so it should be a good opportunity for a close up of the fleet.

[initial]

New routes are Ryanair to Pisa/Gerona

[lba2006]

When was Girona announced?

[initial]

Dont know but bookable

[gary4444]

Leodis, I know you're up in Leeds and all, but surely you don't think NEMA will be the long haul airport of choice for South Yorkshire over MAN which offers many long haul scheduled routes???

On a side note DSA offers just as much long haul leisure routes as NEMA.

[RVR800]

I reckon DSA has a good future. Its got good connections and the airport has infrastructure that could worry HUY and LBA if a low-co set up there. The area where the airport is based will benefit greatly.

[pug]

AAArrr

Its got good connections and the airport has infrastructure that could worry HUY and LBA if a low-co set up there.

Please refrain, may kill another thread... Lol:)

Looks like the playing off has begun with FR, after anouncing DUB from HUY a new set of routes are announced from DSA. I would expect similar routes from HUY next october.

[Bundanoon]

Ryanair announce two new routes to Pisa & Barcelona (Girona) with low fares starting at £3.99 one way excluding taxes.
28 March 2006
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, has announced it will be expanding its operations from Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield with the addition of two new routes to Pisa & Barcelona (Girona).
Following the huge success of the existing daily Dublin service, and as a direct reaction to consumer demand, Ryanair will start flying the additional routes towards the end of the Summer.
Pisa will operate four times weekly on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays & Sundays. Flights to Pisa start 14 September 2006.
Barcelona (Girona) will operate three times weekly on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Flights to Barcelona (Girona) start on 31 October 2006.
The new services combined bring an addition seven flights per week, taking Ryanair’s total weekly operation to fourteen weekly flights to Ireland, Italy & Spain.
The new routes will carry an addition 100,000 Ryanair passengers, bringing the total Ryanair passengers through the UK’s newest Airport to 200,000 annually.
Speaking at the press conference today, David Ryall, Managing Director at Robin Hood Airport said:
“We are delighted that Ryanair is expanding its services from Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. These new routes offer more choice to passengers and are further evidence of Ryanair’s commitment to work with the Peel Airports Group to develop air services at our Airports; Liverpool John Lennon, Durham Tees Valley & Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield”
Announcing the new routes at Robin Hood Airport today, Ryanair’s Deputy Head of Sales & Marketing Europe, Caroline Baldwin said:
"With the two new routes Ryanair will serve three destinations from Doncaster Sheffield and deliver 200,000 passengers a year sustaining 200 jobs in the local economy.
"The new Pisa service will provide a fabulous opportunity for passengers to explore Tuscany, one of Italy's most beautiful regions, and take city breaks to both Pisa and Florence at the lowest fares in Europe.
"Barcelona (Girona) offers the perfect excuse for a few days off and here you can mix shopping and party life with chilling out on the beach. In the region you will also find the Cava district, the home of the Spanish "champagne".

[windshear-a-head]

So will this be a Dublin based A/C? I guess it will do DUB - DSA - PSA - DUB?

[gary4444]

Dublin is with Dublin based aircraft. Pisa and Girona will be with aircraft at those respective bases.

[rubberneck]

please note that new fees are in force at Doncaster Airport WEF 1/4/06 - of particular interest to GA pilots (landing & training).

the new fees can be found on the airport web site @ http://www.robinhoodairport.com/page_aviation_opportunities_17.html
the link to the fees can be found at the bottom of the page.

there is an ammended version due to be up-loaded by the end of the week as fees for Go-arounds were missed off.

In short there is a minimum invoice charge of £25.

Instrument approaches and Touch and Gos - 50% reduction in runway charge.

Visual circuit Go-arounds - 75% reduction in runway charge.

[7006 fan]

Get the impression they do not want GA at DSA?!?

[gary4444]

Peel want to make money not lose it.

[7006 fan]

Yep, no Commercial Airport wants GA 'puddle jumpers', and it does a**e me when they say 'oh but we train tomorrows pilots', so what! Driving instructors train tomorrow's firemen, ambulancemen, lorry drivers or whatever (obviously they have to take further exams to get the licence) but driving instructors do not get road tax reductions or discount at the local BP! So why should someone who owns a knackered old Cessna Skyhawk fly for tuppence?

[niknak]

Minimum invoice fee of £25 is entirely reasonable, why should anyone have to process unnecessary paperwork when you can pay on the day, either in person or over the telephone by credit card.

50% off for training flights, again, very reasonable for an organisation who will never make any money out of private flying/GA even if 100% of the fee was charged.

[7006 fan]

Well said Nik-Nak, all the GA say they do not need CAT, but guaranteed if an airport did not charge CAT fees and a GA went 'nose in' they would wail at the bill figures with 4 noughts minimum spring to mind. THEY would say it was only a few firemen, but what about the closure of the airport all the lost landing fees, diversion costs etc, it could cost the airport dear, that is why most UK airports insist on min.£12m insurance. Imagine Mr PJ accidentally hits 757 whilst taxi-ing whoops big dosh, but as far as Mr PJ is concerned this is irrelavant as he is a good pilot with 40 years weekend experience!!! and flew a Spitfire or whatever. Puddle jumpers have no place at Commercial Airports, there are plenty of grass strips for them with landrover fire trucks etc and cheap landing fees. USE THEM!!!!

[big.al]

I would point out that not all 'puddle jumpers' as you call us - in a rather derogatory way if I may say so - can fly into grass strips. Many can, yes, but some a/c types are just not suited to grass.

Whilst I understand the feeling that the largest UK airports may not want GA aircraft, I find it surprising that many of the quieter (regional) airports would not want the extra income generated from GA landing fees. Some airports seem to positively welcome GA (Norwich for example - NikNak's neck-of-the-woods I believe). Humberside would lose out a great deal if the FTOs went elsewhere. Plymouth has been actively encouraging GA to go visit, I gather that Cardiff are also welcoming, with a reasonable landing fee of circa £18 if you use the Flying Club.

Southampton appear (from what I hear - after all this is a 'rumours' website) to be one of the few commercial airports trying in no undertain terms to kick out the GA population.

Lets say for example that we don't allow GA to 'jump the puddle' over to Guernsey, as this is a commercial airport. Where would GA traffic go then? No other grass strips at Guernsey that I can think of (and by the way, Guernsey was superbly welcoming when I went a couple of years back). Same goes for Jersey, Alderney etc.

If 'Mr PJ' does taxy his A/C into a 757 then he's an idiot. I'm not saying it can't happen, but saying that he can't land at a commercial airport because of that tiny risk is equivalent to saying... "we mustn't let anyone fly who hasn't been commercially trained because they might crash into a football stadium/shopping centre".

In the end it's up to the airport to decide their own charges, and for potential visiting GA pilots to choose whether to go there and pay, or go somewhere else and pay their fees to somewhere more deserving. Commercial airports are a business, and make commercial decisions. If they decide they need GA income they will make it affordable for GA to visit. If not then they'll probably try to price GA traffic out of the equation.

If DSA want to charge a minimum £25 (their choice) then I won't go (my choice). But to make a blanket-statement that GA has no place at commercial airports is clearly incorrect when you look at the number of regional airports with FTOs. If EMA can happily operate GA alongside commercial traffic then so can many other airports.

By the way 7006fan, where and in what did you learn to fly? In a 767 from grass strip perhaps..?;)

[niknak]

Al,

correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that DSA are trying to discourage GA at all, they're merely adopting much the same terms & conditions as most airpoprts throught the UK do for GA.
I'm afraid that even we have the £25 minimum invoice fee, although our fees if paid on the day - either in person or by telephone - are a lot cheaper.

Despite the heavy metal that DSA, we and other places handle, every GA movement is (usually) another customer for the cafe or other terminal franchises.
Ineviatebly there may come a time when DSA has to restrict GA, thats the way of the commercial world but I would hope that there remains room for everyone in some form or other.

To be fair to Southampton, their commercial operations have expanded enormously in the last few years, and there's literally no space to expand the airport. In any business, maximising your income is the primary task, especially if you're accountable to shareholders, so it's no suprise that, unfortunately, G/A were the first to go.

[gary4444]

Latest news is;

*An application has been lodged with Doncaster Council for a hotel.

*P&O Cruises have announced yet another cruise flight to Barbados to join the Oceana sailing on 07 December 2007

*Thomsonfly have announced that there will be a weekly winter flight to Salzburg

*There will be a fourth weekly Tenerife flight from Thomsonfly this winter

* New Flyglobespan 767 G-CDPT is at the airport doing circuits today. Following in the long line of recent crew training flights.

[airhumberside]

Thomas Cook have underlined their commitment to the area and the airport further. They have added Palma and Tenerife for summer 2007 with Air Europa

[windshear-a-head]

Anyone know why the Excel 737 was doing a flight down to PGF today? seems a fairly bizarre destination.

[airhumberside]

Hull FC were playing a French Rugby Team (Les Catalans or something like that). It was a charter for the fans

[gary4444]

New Thomsonfly routes for Summer 2007 are Larnaca and Gran Canaria.

Not showing at the moment for Thomsonfly are Gerona (which Ryanair start in Sept), Pula and Peurto Plata (Although Sanford and Cancun are on sale for S07).

[airhumberside]

Gerona appears to have moved to LBA

[gary4444]

Wizzair are to start Doncaster - Katowice on Sept 19. Service is on Tuesday, Friday and Sundays.

[airhumberside]

This quote was in todays Scunthorpe Telegraph

Budget airline EasyJet confirmed it has no current plans to fly from Robin Hood Airport.

Looks like Easyjet could have left DSA for good

[DTVAirport]

This could be stating the obvious but does that mean the Geneva route is no more?

[airhumberside]

Looks that way

[SeamusCVT]

Didn't Thomsonfly operate a charter to Geneva throughout February or was this cancelled? Possibility of a seat only this winter if they reprise it?

[airhumberside]

The charter was instead of Turin during the winter olympics. TOM could always consider bringing it back, although GVA always seemed like a temporary replacement for Turin

[gary4444]

This quote was in todays Scunthorpe Telegraph
Looks like Easyjet could have left DSA for good

So tell me why DSA and BOH (who don't have summer services from Easyjet) are still in the Easyjet booking panel on their website?

When they don't have plans to fly to any airport then they take them off the website!

[airhumberside]

When they have plans to serve an airport, they dont tell the local paper they don't plan to serve the airport

[gary4444]

Scunthorpe Telegraph..............the mark of journalistic excellence :confused:

Routes get dropped, they go straight from the website. So why are DSA and BOH still there?

Answer that one.

[NorthOfRiver]

This quote was in todays Scunthorpe Telegraph
Looks like Easyjet could have left DSA for good

I am not a great lover of DSA, but in their defence I am led to believe there were plans afoot for Easyjet to set up a base at DSA for the summer. By all accounts verbal agreements were struck before the airport was built, hence Easyjet throwing its weight behind it during the planning stage and enquiry. However, Thomsonfly have firmly got a foot in the door and they ain't going to be budged by no one. Consequently Easyjet could not get the timings and discounts they wanted from DSA, so they decided not to bother.
The door is open for smaller low cost airlines at DSA now to come in a pick up the routes Easyjet were going to serve.

Easyjet are looking for a small base in the area, and so I wouldn't be surprised if they try Humberside. I tghink it's worth a shout.

[gary4444]

Easyjet are looking for a small base in the area, and so I wouldn't be surprised if they try Humberside. I tghink it's worth a shout.

Thats a good one :D

[airhumberside]

DSA is still on the EZY booking panel, but you cant book any flights from DSA so whether its on the panel or not doesnt seem to matter.

If, which I think is unlikely, the Scunthorpe Telegraph has printed a load of rubbish, dont forget that many potential passengers will not question the statement and assume Easyjet has pulled out of DSA

EZY haven't released any winter flights yet. When they do, I guess we will find out if they are staying at DSA

[gary4444]

airhumberside

Tell me an airline that leaves airports in the booking panel a month after they drop routes?

It is likely the Telegraph has printed rubbish, at which point does it say "a spokesman for Easyjet said they have no current plans to fly from Doncaster/Sheffield"? What they will have done is looked at the website and saw flights had ended for the season and interpreted it as they have no plans to fly from DSA.

But like you say we will see.

[dwlpl]

Tell me an airline that leaves airports in the booking panel a month after they drop routes?

Ryanair.

They had an airport (Milan Bergamo?) closed for runway attention sometime last year and re-routed those services into Verona Brescia.

It still has to this day 18 routes operating out of there, according to the booking engine, when in fact they fly just the two (Stanasted and Ciampino).

[gary4444]

The two routes are the only ones in the panel now, also the flights weren't dropped. But this will get us off topic.

[pug]

Easyjet are looking for a small base in the area, and so I wouldn't be surprised if they try Humberside. I tghink it's worth a shout.



EZY go for large catchment areas, i very much doubt HUY would fit into their criteria, the only very slight chance would be if they decide that HUY is far enough away from NEMA to make services viable, i will have no doubt they will have looked at the airport some time though, dont forget they would have the power to steal pax from TOM at DSA, eventualy gaining them an entry into DSA!

Just a thought:bored:

[Teevee]

I think you're all getting a bit carried away here. However as far as the Scunthorpe Telegraph quote is concerned Airlines may not tell newspapers they don't have plans to fly from an airport if they do, but they sure as hell don't go telling newspapers of all things that they do have plans before the official announcement is made, usually simultaneously by the airport and the airline. Airports in association with the airline usually make the announcement, not the newspapers! And anyway, haven't you noticed, if the quote is verbatim then it is very carefully made: notice that careful word 'current' in there? Doesn't sound like they've quit for good to me.:rolleyes:

[chiglet]

Last time I was at DSA [RAF Finningly] there was a Railway Station on site
watp,iktch

[NEastMidlands]

chiglet

It was used for the airshows but has been disused for a long time now.

[POL1W]

The BH Air first flight of the season from Bourgas to Doncaster, yesterday was told to go around on short finals as there was no fuel available for their return. Not a fuel shortage, just that their credit was not good. How farcical is that? THe Tupolev made additional approaches before going into the hold whilst it was sorted out. Possible diversion to MAN and coach the passengers from DSA was a solution. Eventually after negotiations over the Servisair company frequency, permission to land with fuel availability was granted.
Not a very good impression given for an up and coming international airport is it?, let alone an added workload for the pilot whilst in the final landing phase, having to start considering financial concerns and implications, in the last 45 seconds of the flight.

[windshear-a-head]

Ah thats what was going on, I was watching it from the house, thought there may have been tech problems. Did put a post on but it seems to have made its way to the spotters page.

Cheers!

[gary4444]

POL1W

The fault is completely with BH Air, the pilot and passengers just got caught up in it. There were no problems all through last year dealing with them, but because they didn't pay off their remaining debt the airport were well within their rights to deny rights.

Its better than impounding an aircraft like some people do!

[POL1W]

gary4444

Possibly so, but it must have been known long before the aircraft arrived that they owed money. Doing what they did on short finals was not a clever move.

[blahblahblah]

Think people need to give a little thought before posting on here.

If BH Air had not paid their fuel bill is it not an issue between the airline and the fuel supplier, NOT the tour operator or the airport. As usual people are very keen to jump on the 'blame the airport' when in fact it is something out of their hands!:\

[gary4444]

gary4444
Possibly so, but it must have been known long before the aircraft arrived that they owed money. Doing what they did on short finals was not a clever move.

Not the best way to do things agreed, it could have been sorted long before. But are you telling me BH Air didn't know they owed money, because they did, and its their own fault the situation arose.

[WHBM]

The BH Air first flight of the season from Bourgas to Doncaster, yesterday was told to go around on short finals as there was no fuel available for their return. Not a fuel shortage, just that their credit was not good. How farcical is that?
This sounds like one of those stories where we don't hear the real details. But if it did happen like this, and the pax were subjected to a go around at low level for admin/accountancy reasons, it sounds like one to be referred to the AAIB as an incident for investigation. Either you tell them before departure or once they are on the ground. An accounting hiatus affecting the first flight of a season is not unknown, such happens, but never heard of it being handled like this.

[niknak]

Concur with WHBM.

As far as I am aware, the aerodrome authority can stop an aircraft departing due financial restraints, but they cannot stop it from landing for that reason.
Addiitionally, if they intend to impound or put a lien upon an aircraft, they are legally obliged to infrom the aircraft operator in writing and obtain a written acknowledgement, (this can be done by fax).

Sounds like a lot of inexperienced chickens running around the roost at DSA Management.

[royman]

Not a very good impression given for an up and coming international airport is it?, let alone an added workload for the pilot whilst in the final landing phase, having to start considering financial concerns and implications, in the last 45 seconds of the flight.
Let alone the unnecessary added workload for the ATCO's, vectoring the aircraft about in class G airspace.

[lakeside84]

Sorry to state the obvious, but first flight of the season for a resort based airline means NO INBOUND PAX! Therefore no pax were on board that flight that some of you are describing rather dramatically...! An issue between the refuellers and the airline, the handling agent simply acts as the messenger in circumstances such as this.

[gary4444]

Plovdiv in Bulgaria will be served from 23rd Dec to 3rd March by Thomsonfly. Flights leave at 14:10 and return at 22:05 and are available through Thomsonski.

[ashmac33]

Hi guys, i dont know if anyone can help, but do thomsonfly operate a ticektless travel on the charter and low cost flights from DSA. Do thomsonfly operate their own representation from the airport then- as our company representing tui is not present being the only major airport in the uk.

cheers ash

[POL1W]

Sorry to state the obvious, but first flight of the season for a resort based airline means NO INBOUND PAX! Therefore no pax were on board that flight that some of you are describing rather dramatically...! An issue between the refuellers and the airline, the handling agent simply acts as the messenger in circumstances such as this.
I had realised that the first flight would be empty so fortunately no pax were exposed to these go arounds. However, it still does'nt make it all right, and had it not been an empty positioning leg the outcome would have been identical as the problem would still have arisen at the wrong moment, especially with crews who probably do not have the best and clearest understanding of a language which is not their native tongue.

[WHBM]

In such situations it is more often that the paperwork has not been signed/put in place rather than there actually being an unpaid bill. How were they OK over at MAN ?

Return flight from/to Bourgas, plus time to organise unplanned coaches, plus drive across to MAN, and handle an unexpected flight there, would possibly have put crew outside hours ?

[WOWBOY]

I would have thought that by now DSA would have domestic routes but it doesn't. Is there a chance that domestic services will come avalible?

I would have thought that EDI, BHD/BFS and Possibly a GLA or LON service could be viable with sensible frequencies, would they not?!?

Or is the fact that LBA is close to DSA a big factor!

[airhumberside]

Technically, DSA has a domestic service to Jersey

I doubt a London service would work because of the frequent train service, except for maybe LHR, which isnt going to happen any time soon due to slots

I think EDI and GLA could work, and especially Belfast. Flybe would be ideal but they have a 'base' at LBA. Thye may also start HUY services in the future. They could always serve DSA instead of HUY.

As for Belfast, maybe an option for TOM. Wasn't Belfast on a list of possible destinations released by TOM in 2004 when they announced their DSA base?

[gary4444]

There will be a cruise flight to New Orleans (yes, thats right New Orleans from Doncaster) on 7th December 2007 from P&O on behalf of Bolsover Cruise Club. :cool:

[aeulad]

Thomson are adding Plovdiv ski flights for next winter.

Regards

Mike

[gary4444]

aeulad

Mentioned on page 3 already.

[DSABOY]

Hi
Just a quick question how is the airport going? Are the longhaul flights succesful Any new routes/airlines? any info much appreciated

[gary4444]

Obviously the airport is doing well, in its first year it nearly carried 1 million passengers. A figure which will be beat this year. The long haul flights are doing well, its still early days, but the 767 is going out with 300+ onboard :)

Look for more route announcements later this summer.

[airhumberside]

Puerta Plata has been dropped for next summer

DSA-Gerona has apeared in the Air Scotland booking engine

[wawkrk]

gary4444
"The long haul flights are doing well, its still early days, but the 767 is going out with 300+ onboard"

Is this a 300 series 767?

Otherwise, how many pax are standing?

[NEastMidlands]

Its a 767-300 doesnt it have 315 seats in two classes, Cattle class and slightly better cattle class

[bob marley]

just arrived back from puerto plata on the 10th, 312 pax on board, and as for comfort pretty good for a britannia/thomson aircraft

[bycrewlgw]

Yes the flights from Doncater are on a premium configured aircraft (315 seats). Only G-OBYJ, G-OBYI, G-OBYD are premium all others are non-premium with 328 Y seats!

BYCREWLGW

[WOWBOY]

Flybe look set to be the next airline to launch flights from DSA, the following is listed under their timetable section:

Doncaster - Belfast City

BE264 10:45 - 11:45 - M-Fr
BE264 11:25 - 12:25 - Sa
BE266 17:20 - 18:20 - M-Fr,Su

Belfast City - Doncaster

BE263 09:20 - 10:20 - M-Fr
BE263 10:00 - 11:00 - Sa
BE265 15:55 - 16:55 - M-Fr,Su

[sam dilly]

Rumour has it that a Corsair 747 555y + 24c (400?) is operating
a DSA/LDE Thursday 29 June arr 09.00 dep 11.00,
does anybody have more info ? is it full ? etc.
This will be interesting !

[airhumberside]

Its a charter for the local Roman Catholics and is instead of using two A320's as they did last year, although apparently two A320's may be used on the return leg

[LBIA]

Hi

The rumored Doncaster/Sheffield - Belfast City flights have been taken out off the on-line timetable on the flybe website. There are no longer showing.

Anyone know whats happening??? Will it Happen.

[gary4444]

Yes it will happen, notice Belfast, Norwich, Exeter and Birmingham has dropped off the list totally.....

Looks like its being worked on!

[WOWBOY]

Well on flybe homepage there is a flash that titles MORE NEW ROUTE this list's Belfast City to Doncaster!

[WOWBOY]

The flybe Doncaster -> Belfast City route has now been uploaded onto their booking system!

Donacster has also appeared on the route map, and the offers promotion under Belfast City.

The only thing left is an official announcement!


Doncaster Sheffield's Official website has an article stating: First ever Domestic service and new airline from Doncaster.

[sam dilly]

What a fantastic sight.
Is a shame that Thomsonfly dont use this aircraft.
All at DSA must be really pleased that all went so well
today.Lets hope we see 747s regularly.:)

[LBIA]

Is there any reason why the Thomsonfly Flight from Faro (ETA 17:30 TOM3574) is diverting to Leeds this afternoon??

Currently this flight is showing on the LBA live arrivals due in at 17:30 along with are normal based B757 flight which is due in at 2105 as the TOM5634 from Palma.

[SeamusCVT]

LBIA, Thomsonfly have subbed in a Jet2 aircraft to operate the route. They managed to position it to DSA to fly the outbound as normal, however, Jet2 require the aircraft at LBA to operate an evening rotation, hence the return is to LBA with pax then coached to DSA.
I hope this is of some assistance.

[RobT100]

SeamusCVT

thats excellent - perhaps they will choose LBA next time

Nice for DSA to have a slip up, especially with TOM :p

[SeamusCVT]

Have heard that TOM are facing delays with the delivery of one or two of their new 737-300s hence the sub-ins, can anyone confirm or deny this?

[gary4444]

SeamusCVT
thats excellent - perhaps they will choose LBA next time
Nice for DSA to have a slip up, especially with TOM :p

All I can say is thanks for all of the Flybe fog diversions we get from LBA, it must have done the trick.

Maybe Air Southwest will take note from their visits......

[14 loop]

As an LBA follower/supporter I'd like to distance myself from RobT100's comments...no need for L vs D arguements. However [gary4444], I'm interested to know how many BEE flights have diverted to DSA from LBA? Have there really been many?...Honestly I don't know, give us a clue.

[RobT100]

14 loop

There is every need for DSA vs Leeds comments. Admitted LBA aint exactly MAN but it should be. DSA is a threat to LBA (although you would hardly think so by the start they have made) and I will treat it as the enemy because of this.

Thank you

[gary4444]

There is no need for any LBA vs. DSA comments unless you are insecure about something. Forget about DSA if the start its had hasn't affected your guardedness for LBA. But to say LBA should be like MAN is ludicrous and shows how in touch you are.

14 loop, there have been a good half dozen Flybe diverts due to fog, and two Air Southwests plus others.

[Leodis]

Gary4444

A good half dozen? Please back your claim with stats? I know of none while I have been on shift:hmm:

[gary4444]

Off the top of my head

30/12/06 G-JEDW
22/01/06 both G-JEDT and G-JECH

[RobT100]

There is no need for any LBA vs. DSA comments unless you are insecure about something. Forget about DSA if the start its had hasn't affected your guardedness for LBA. But to say LBA should be like MAN is ludicrous and shows how in touch you are.
14 loop, there have been a good half dozen Flybe diverts due to fog, and two Air Southwests plus others.
Gary4444 dont talk like a plank - I didnt mean LBA should be like MAN in that context - I was simply referring to the catchment area and major area that west yorks has become. Trust me, I am very "in touch".
Quote your FlyBe diverts till the cows come home pal, i couldnt give a stuff about it. By the way, I already admitted that i am insecure about the DSA - LBA situation so stop trying to rub salt in.

[scamptonboy]

To the above dsa-lba argument,

Why oh why are we getting into a heated debate about these two airports.

As a Leeds lad my loyalties lie with LBA, but surely as a region i.e Yorkshire in its entirety we should be proud of the airports we have?

To dispel any further arguments: Official CAA diversion figures from when DSA opened to commercial traffic in April 2005 ar as follows.

DSA - LBA 0: Unless you count yesterdays Jet2 Ops for Thomson
LBA - DSA 3: 1 A/C x 30/12/05 & 2 x A/C 22/01/06

[PPRuNe Pop]

Whoa! Cool it guys. Slagging and sniping is once again getting the better of good debate and sense. Keep it going and you will have deletes and/or banning getting the better of 'YOU.'

[gary4444]

Gary4444 dont talk like a plank - I didnt mean LBA should be like MAN in that context - I was simply referring to the catchment area and major area that west yorks has become. Trust me, I am very "in touch".
Quote your FlyBe diverts till the cows come home pal, i couldnt give a stuff about it. By the way, I already admitted that i am insecure about the DSA - LBA situation so stop trying to rub salt in.

I'm not the one who came onto the DSA thread and started slagging the airport and people personally off, do you see me do this on the Leeds thread? If you don't like the airport fair enough stay away from the thread, but your attitude is diabolical towards people you don't know, show the respect you would expect in return as a poster.

As far as I'm concerned there is room for all regional airports, but some people take this a bit too personally.

Leodis asked for figures about Flybe, so keep your nose out.

I never rubbed salt in about "LBA vs. DSA" again thats all of your doing.

[niknak]

Before this degenerates into an unregal willy waving contest, remember that Peel have taken a huge, but calculated risk in developing DSA, pumping millions of their own cash and a lot of Government and EEC development grants, into the place.
Equally, LBA has had an enormous sum spent on developing the airport, initially with ratepayers cash and over the last 20 years or so, private equity and a lot of luck (like finding a commercially viable coal seam when excavating for the main apron).

Either way, both DSA and LBA are still run by British companies who have spent/risked a lot of their own money in ventures that don't necessarily provide a guaranteed return, even in the best of economic conditions.

They both have provided employment for large numbers of local people and new trade for local businesses, they've also provided career opportunities that otherwise would not have seen the light of day in previously economically depressed areas.

Good luck to them both.

[lez]

Off the top of my head
30/12/06 G-JEDW
22/01/06 both G-JEDT and G-JECH
Just to add to Gary's post here is a few pics taken by Kelvin Coombes on the 22/01/06

http://kelvincoombes5817.fotopic.net/c836414.html

:ugh: <----- Must feel like this when answering RobT100's replies lol :}

[gary4444]

I've heard on the grapevine that CATIIIA ILS will be installed at the airport later this year after the new radar has been finished, anyone know anymore?

[holidaymax]

I've heard on the grapevine that CATIIIA ILS will be installed at the airport later this year after the new radar has been finished, anyone know anymore?

Aparently so, work is ongoing on the new radar now and the ILS upgrade will take place at the end of the year.

Anyone heard any movements on the Globespan front, there was supposed to be a forthcoming announcement with a Tenerife service this winter :confused:

[almost professional]

was the lighting to allow CAT2/3 ops put in before opening?

[NorthSouth]

almost professional

No, they have no TDZ, centreline or stopway lighting.
NS

[almost professional]

not going to get much benefit from CAT3 capable ILS then!

[holidaymax]

Why is there some unwritten rule stating lighting cannot be installed after opening :confused:

[almost professional]

post does not say anything about adding lighting-just the ILS, also adding all the fittings, unless doing runway work at same time, is a major job-better to have done it before opening if that was the plan, looking at major closures to get the work done

[holidaymax]

I think most people will agree things have progressed much faster than expected, and an upgrade was something not envisioned for a few years.

Night closures will be needed but that isn't out of the ordinary for runway work.

[gary4444]

Bad news about the M18 link road not being approved for funding straight away, its a good job Peel have a backup plan with the new access road onto site that has been approved by Doncaster Council.

[pug]

A straight through road connecting both jct 3 and 4 would be ideal, is that the plan? Sorry i have not kept upto date with the link road.

It would cut journeys from the rest of the region quite considerably, i could probably get there in 40 mins from west hull!:)

[EGCA]

HI guys, a question for you Doncaster locals: Does any private flying take place from Finningley,( sorry, "Sheffield/ Doncaster/Robin Hood /Sherwood Forest, or whatever...) and has the reopening of Finningley placed any constraints on local GA airfields, eg Netherthorpe, Sandtoft, and others? Not up to speed with GA in your part of the World. ( exile hoping to return to Gods Wonderful County soon...)

Presumably the death knell for Sheffield City.

Just wondered because I heard a comment recently that Peel dont exactly encourage GA anymore at Blackpool.

EGCA

North Derbyshire's forgotten airfield.

[bottom rung]

EGCA.... Peel have nothing to do with Blackpool.... try Liverpool. Go through the archives for the answers to your other queries as they have been discussed at great length already.

[gary4444]

EGCA

GA traffic is around everyday at DSA along with military aircraft. Its not actively encouraged and they are not allowed to base at the airport but they do appear once or twice a day. Movement lists can be found on the Yahoo DSA group, egcn website and various other sites if you are interested in what comes in.

The local GA fields are fairly busy and as you would expect there are some misunderstandings between all parties concerned in the local approach airspace, as there is no controlled airspace between the numerous fields in the close area.

[EGCA]

Well thanks, bottom rung, thats how to make newbies welcome here! Hope you fall off your ladder sometime! I can assure you I did read the entire thread before posting.

gary4444: Thanks for that. My comment about GA and Peel was perhaps misplaced, and indeed maybe it was Liverpool the pilot was referring to. The point being that he said how short of GA airfield space they were in the North-West, and had mentioned a "change of ownership". I thought he said Blackpool, but maybe it was Liverpool. Anyway, no matter, not relevant now anyway.

Without straying too much off-topic, one of the other local to Doncaster GA airfields I had forgotten is Gamston, and in the 1980's that was an airfield where I had the dubious honour of being thrown off, when I wasn't even on the airfield, but rather on the adjacent public road from Elkesley to the A1.!

My then young son wanted to reggie spot, so we pulled up at the side of the road, got out of the car, and quite quickly one of Budge's bully boys came out and told us to clear off. I decided not to contest the issue because he looked like a night-club bouncer! Maybe Mr Budge thought he owned the public highway as well.

Takes all sorts I suppose....

EGCA

[bottom rung]

To EGCA:
I am sorry if I offended you old chap. I am afraid I initially mistook you for a journo. I'll consider myself told off. Your comment just touched a nerve as I have Blackpool connections.

[EGCA]

bottom rung:

Nope, not a journo. (nor anything professional in aviation circles). I contribute on a railway preservation Board, and we have learned on there how " off the cuff" comments suddenly become "breaking news" in the next issue of the railway heritage press, so I guess they look for stories, whether founded or not, wherever they can. Walls have ears, as they used to say!!

No offence taken at all, and I hope you likewise.

All the best,

EGCA

[996]

On friday I witnessed a Spanish couple with four kids arrive at Sheffield airport in a bit of a flap. They were toting a pile of luggage as yo might imagine and were a bit tired/stressed. I commented to my pal stood nearby "bet they think they are at Doncaster". Guess what! I was right.

It's easy to see how the erro can be made and I wonder how many people have made this mistake. Why on earth do people insist on naming places inappropriately? Doncaster is Doncaster and not Sheffield. I wonder how many people have wandered off to Durham recently?

[daz211]

it is the same all over even major airports
london heathrow not london
london gatwick not london
london stansted not london
london luton not london

the only london airport i would call london in city airport

[ComJam]

What about London Ashford Airport?? That cracked me up recently at LYDD!! :ugh:

[EGCN]

The Dsa baggage handlers are going on strike there will be a series of one day strikes then a full ban,the first couple of strikes will be on Friday 4th Aug and Monday 7th Aug.

The airport's 35 handlers, who voted for industrial action two weeks ago because colleagues at Manchester and East Midlands earn £1 more an hour, rejected Servisair's latest offer.

[gary4444]

Two charters for upcoming Euro 2008 qualifiers will be going from Doncaster.


(Advertising! Link deleted.)

[pug]

Great to hear about the weekly toronto flights from next summer, lets hope they start a service to EWR soon!

[NorthOfRiver]

Great to hear about the weekly toronto flights from next summer, lets hope they start a service to EWR soon!
It gets even better for DSA. Shaheen Air are set to introduce a 4 x Weekly service to Dubai.
Timesonline http://www.abtn.co.uk
VERY LATE BREAKING (and surprising) NEWS from the ROUTES airlines/airports conference in Dubai Sunday afternoon is that Pakistan’s second airline Shaheen Air is to introduce a four times weekly service from Robin Hood Doncaster Airport to Dubai “later this year”. The airline will use a two-class Boeing 767 for the operation, and also plans to continue the flight on to Toronto in 2007. Mohammed Jalil, operations director, Shaheen Air, explained that the airline, established in 1991, is profitable and has now only a small government holding. It currently flies to five domestic and six international destinations in The Gulf and carried 0.5m passengers in 2005. Neil Pakey, CEO of Doncaster owner Peel Airports, said that the £120m project has been a great success with 840,000 passengers in the first year.

Seems that DSA is to be taken seriously after all.

[daz211]

I have just had a look at the website for AIR SHAHEEN, it says modern fleet, from what I can see they have 3 aircraft all B737-200 I remember that a/c type ryanair had them but got shot the crew hated them.

I dont know if they can call B737-200 modern:=

sorry just read link they are getting some B767 for the route

[bmibaby.com]

Does anybody think that an easyJet base is likely for the future out of DSA, or is EMA too close? The airline already has a fantastic cooperation with Peel Holdings who also owns LPL, indeed the terminal buildings at the two airports look remarkably similar. Also, Thomsonfly don't seem to be the best low cost platform for the airport, as they haven't expanded their scheduled route network in a while, though it's nice to see so much charter expansion, as well as the new flyglobespan long haul routes.

The EMA base has reached stagnation, and with the new aggressive Ryanair base, EZY doesn't have much chance of expanding even if they wanted to.

[Lite]

Felt rather bad for laughing at the Iberia pax services agent in Malaga in August trying to announce the Thomsonfly (Tom-son-fley) flight to "Aeropuerto de Doncast-err E-Sheffield Robeen Hoood Internacional."

Any idea whether Thomsonfly are expanding at DSA? Am considering applying for cabin crew, with DSA as one of my bases. Also, how is Servisair doing at that base?

[airhumberside]

Does anybody think that an easyJet base is likely for the future out of DSA, or is EMA too close?
I dont think a DSA base would ever happen while they have a NEMA base (to close to each other) but if EZY moved their NEMA base to DSA then I think a EZY base at DSA could work

However the chance of EZY having a base at DSA (NEMA base remaining open or not) whill not have been helped by the failure of DSA-GVA last winter

Any idea whether Thomsonfly are expanding at DSA?
They haven't added any extra short haul aircraft to DSA since DSA opened and seem pretty stagnant. Although there is a rumour of a capacity upgrade on certain short haul routes next summer (has come from airport officials)

[Powerjet1]

Wizz announce a 4 x weekly service from DSA to Gdansk wef 28 July 07.

[richxby]

From DSA website

"Thomas Cook Just Got BIGGER!
Following a hugely successful Summer 2006, Thomas Cook just got BIGGER from Robin Hood Airport. "

"On sale now and flying from May 2007, Thomas Cook will add more destinations to the UK's exciting newest Airport. "

"Thomas Cook destinations for Summer 2007 "

Turkey (Dalaman)
Ibiza
Majorca
Gran Canaria
Tenerife
Tunisia

Had a look on TCX website and:

Dalaman operated by Pegasus Airlines
Las Palmas operated by Air Europa
Ibiza operated by Thomsonfly
Naples listed on website from DSA but not bookable
Tenerife not listed from DSA on website
Tunisia operated by Nouvelair Tunis!

[airhumberside]

Thomas Cook arent taking seats on Naples next summer - still operates but just for TUI

Palma and Tenerife are the new flights - both operated by Air Europa

[holidaymax]

Goildtrail Holidays now selling packages to Bodrum for next summer using Onur Air.

Will compete with Thomson flights.

[sat1]

good luck with onur air....you WILL need it.tech aircraft,less than helpful flight deck etc etc

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Oasis Hong Kong did a Training Flight recently with a 744, It spent a while in the circuit.

Regards.:rolleyes:

[RobT100]

So, the Duke of York couldnt come and open the airport due to fogbound runway .....seems to be happening a lot lately :) :) :) :) :)

[RAFAT]

So, the Duke of York couldn't come and open the airport...

What??? :confused:

[14 loop]

But Rob....don't forget that a CatIII ILS will be opertional at DSA for the winter and unlike LBA, 757s & F100s etc will be able to shoot it without restrictions!!!

[niknak]

A Cat 3ILS at Donny would be welcome, but I flew in there yesterday and there was absolutely no sign of the centreline/other lighting, illuminated touchdown zone and protected Cat 3 holds required for a Cat 3 ILS.
Perhaps it will all come, but they don't have very long to get it installed and up and running, considering the place operates H24.

[RobT100]

But Rob....don't forget that a CatIII ILS will be opertional at DSA for the winter and unlike LBA, 757s & F100s etc will be able to shoot it without restrictions!!!

Yes and it will at MAN too :}

[baps]

niknak,

Although the lights are yet to be turned on most of the required lighting has indeed been installed. With new taxi lights on the apron, centreline lighting and of course the new Cat 2/3 holding points all in place. Sure there's still some work to do but the airport is still closing at 11pm each night give or take a bit depending on tfly arrivals until the end of the month. We will of course have to wait and see weather it's all operational by winter.

[Eaglestar7]

I thought you lot said that it was never foggy at DSA?

[EMA01]

Just comparing the aircraft amounts for different airports does anyone know how many aircraft Thomsonfly are basing at DSA this summer and which type of aircraft.. Thanks

EMA01:ok:

[airhumberside]

Think its 1xB752, 1xB738 and 2xB737-Classics

[EMA01]

Thanks for that:D

EMA01

[gary4444]

I noticed Wizz have increased their number of routes to four from the airport recently, it shows the airport is picking more business up finally. Are there any rumours afoot that anyone has heard?

[eu01]

From today's newspaper (The Daily Record):
A crafty cigarette in an airplane toilet cost a passenger £3200 yesterday.

Martin Rose, 36, was on a flight from Spain when he was spotted walking down the aisle of the Boeing 737 jet with a cigarette and a lighter in his hand, a court heard.
He locked himself in the toilet and lit the cigarette before being caught red-handed by a stewardess.

Rose was arrested when the Ryanair flight from Girona touched down at Doncaster's Robin Hood Airport on November 9.
Yesterday, he was fined the maximum penalty of £2500 by the town's magistrates, who also ordered that he should pay £700 costs.

The court was told Rose, from Cleveland, was warned not to smoke when he was spotted walking to the toilet with a cigarette and a lighter.
He went inside and the captain and a passenger could then smell smoke.
Justin Bullas, prosecuting, said: "The air hostess knocked on the door and when it was opened there was a cloud of smoke coming out of the cubicle.
"It was searched and the smoke alarm was found to be covered up with a napkin, and ash was found in the sink."

Rose did not turn up in court but it was agreed the case should go ahead because Spanish stewardesses Alexandra Sais and Marjo Vallamo had flown 900 miles to give evidence.

A spokesman for the airline said: "Ryanair will always press charges against any passenger who attempts to put the safety of our passengers and aircraft at risk."

[BlueTui]

Think its 1xB752, 1xB738 and 2xB737-Classics

And a premium 763 shared with CWL

[devonlad]

What a dear smoke lol

[richxby]

Hi


Does anyone know why that (My Cargo?) aircraft has been sitting around on the tarmac for a few days all shut up?


Is it Turkish from the reg? Airbus....?

[devonlad]

Its was TC-ACZ AIRBUS A300 departed at 1135 this morning but did not know
why its been parked from sat night

[aeulad]

NEW!

Ryanair to Alicante 3xweek.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

Pisa is axed at the end of the summer

[idlejack]

I thought it was time DSA got another mention!

The month of August saw the best pax figures to date with 132000 passing through the airport. This also led to the landmark 1 million rolling year pax being achieved. :ok:

[airhumberside]

TOM are to axe PRG and JER - both seemingly succesful routes, as they refocus on charters with their First Choice merger. A big blow for DSA

[YorkshireTown]

I've heard the 'special' rates deal by the council is now up at Donny and it's starting to cause them some very big headaches.

Honeymoon period well-and-truly over according to my source, and they are genuinely worried about prospects of attracting new interest because the airport is passing on the rates-hike to customers.

Anyone?

[SAM-EMA]

Anyone heard about the new budget carrier planning to launch from DSA.

Starting next sumer, FlyEm with a B738 plans to fly from DSA to Paris, Rome, Spanish mainland and the balearic and canary islands. As well as seasonal routes to Geneva, Prague and Vienna and some destinations in Germany and Italy. Within 12 months it hopes to have 4 738s.

SAM-EMA

[aidoair]

Well they must be planning on having some really low fares to able to fill up the 738 on these ''planned'' routes especially on flights to Paris where Thomsonfly tried and dropped this route due to poor passenger load factors and was even operated by a 735, then again with the right timings i think the route could have done much better with an early morning flgiht throughout the week and and a late evening flight on a sunday. Not only that but bmibaby operate this route double daily from EMA and Jet2 will also be operating the route twice daily next summer from LBA which are both not too far away from DSA. As for a new low fare airline starting up from an airport such as DSA i think using an aircaft the size of the 738 is not going to be in favour for them but then again who knows. Hopefully another airline will base at least one aicraft here sometime soon if if its another charter airline to be able to offer a wider range of destinations other than the usual Spain and Canary flights.

[harrogate]

A 738 is a good choice of aircraft, but as noted the benefits will be reaped by taking it to the end of its range to pastures new for a lo-co. 738 and A320 will be the absolute minimum standard for UK lo-co's soon.

Maybe a 'safe' conventional lo-co destination is still a good idea to start with, but as noted, the timings would need to be right and choice of route should be deemed commercially sound on a regional basis and NOT an airport basis. LBA and EMA must be taken into consideration by DSA, as should HUY if it were to ever attract a lo-co. They cannot plan to operate in isolation.

Lo-co is diversifying and morphing - if these guys start as they mean to go on, then capacity in the evolved model is there for the taking. Slagwagons to the Costa Brava are definitely not the way to go.

[DTVAirport]

Just received my latest edition of Airliner World magazine, and in it there is a small article on new UK-based start-ups, one is the latest development at UK International Airlines, they've been awarded an AOC, the other is PremJet, a proposed London Luton start-up described separately in another thread.

The third is an airline called FlyEm, a new budget airline looking to launch operations at Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield with a single leased Boeing 737-800. They are hoping to begin services next summer, flying to continental cities and the mediterranean, including Paris, Rome the Spanish Mainland and the Balearic and Canary Islands, with seasonal flights to Geneva, Prague and Vienna as well as destinations in Germany and Italy for Winter 2008. They hope to carry approx 360,000 pax in their first 12 months, as well as producing £40 million of revenue in the same period. Once they've achieved this they will embark on phase two of their plans, which at this point in time only involves the acquisition of four further B737-800s.

Now you're probably thinking oh not another dead-in-the-water LCC start-up, but from what the article says, they certainly seem more organised than previous start-ups, and the thinking behind it all seems accurate enough - the demand for these services certainly does exist from DSA, but the question I'd be asking if I were them is where do we go after that?

Regards.

[SAM-EMA]

This has already been posted in the DSA thread.

[DTVAirport]

Well now it's got its own thread :)

[BombardierCR7]

So that means over £110 revenue per pax per flight..less start up costs, advertising, fixed costs, AOC, lease costs of a 738 (approx 80k +/-20% per month)...

The person(s)/company/financial house behind them must have deep pockets.....

...and they expect Doncaster to Vienna to work?

[YorkshireTown]

I don't doubt they've done their homework to an extent - it's getting harder and harder to get commercial lenders to part with their cash at the moment, unless your business plan is completely watertight, as I've just found out for myself with a nailed-on housing development with planning permission, but that's a different story.

Back to the plot... I've worked heavily in market research in the past, and it's all too easy to arrive at the answers you wanted to arrive at.

You ask Mrs Boggins at the Frenchgate Centre on a wet and windy afternoon in February where she fancies going on holiday next year, then poke her a list of generic lo-co destinations and ask her to tick 3, and hey presto! Waddya know - she'd love to go to Vienna.

I wish them all the very best, I really do... but 986 passengers a-day in a 189 seat 737-800 for a start-up (i.e. unknown) airline...

[photon]

A search on Companies House shows the registered office to be in Grimsby, a further search on upmystreet.com shows the address belongs to a terraced house in Grimsby, hardly what you would expect for an airline office, even a start up.

[harrogate]

Could just be an airport employee thinking they're being clever and that a man's gonna come knocking on their door with a big cheque for rights to the name.

Bless.

[robo283]

Photon

Don't judge them too much on their address at this stage. Orion Airways was 'born' in the back bedroom of a bungalow in Luton. As soon as it got started the legal address was changed to EMA. It's just a legal nicety.

[firstchoice7e7]

heard that a TFLY jet blew a slide at Doncaster today, whoops:}

[johnnychips]

This is a bit of a trying time for DSA at the moment, with TOM pulling back to only offer routes where they do charter holidays. But a lot of the same smaller regional airports like MME and ABZ seem also to be suffering the same problems.

Things go up and down, but I think DSA will ultimately be a success. :confused:

[tightturnaround]

A DSA-based 75 blew a slide at HUY during a 'W', actually. Door 2R? AS i think. ferried to MAN and replacement ac sent to Humberside

[ADC2604]

Bournemouth actually :)

[baps]

ADC2604, ther was 2 slide blown. One in HUY and a 737 in BOH. Good day for the slides. Finally getting out for some fresh air!!

[ADC2604]

well the age of TOM B737s its no surprise :)

[tightturnaround]

except that in HUY twas a 75

[pug]

Following from what people have said on another forum, i would like a pro's opinion....

I believe, after the hype, that DSA is nothing more than a bucket and spade airport. The one business flight it has is poorly performing..

Is it ever likely to get the long-haul flights it made a stir over before it became operational?

Personaly i just cant see it, ok maybe GSM... but they arent returning to YHM next year!

I think Emirates is a pipe dream, LBA will get that along with any flight to JFK or EWR... There is just not the demand from the region as it is, you can see that if you look for the figures! The 2mppa using MAN from Yorks/Humber, around 85,000 are going to New York... Only 19% of which are business users. You will need more than that to make it sustainable, if DSA cant attract a flag carrier to any European hub what chance in hell have they got of attracting one to an american or middle eastern hub?

LBA is the most viable out of the three. Largest catchment area by far, already popular business destinations served so can expand on that, major city as opposed to Doncaster/Sheffield... The length of the runway is no issue as the types that would be required can be accomodated (there will be NO 747/A380's from Yorkshire!!) The surface links may not be so good but that realy is not an issue! Airlines wont look at that when they compare the figures and look at the facts! Shaheen, whilst being unreliable so far, have opted for LBA over DSA!!!

DSA is a smaller version of EMA, always will be, it will try and attract as many cargo flights as it can.. It may get some charter long-haul, as EMA does though i dont see it as being so important, they will always be relying on the bottom of the market bucket and spade destinations im afraid to say.

This leaves HUY in the position of expanding as it can, growth will be minimal, the odd scheduled destination may be added. AMS is unlikely to go (HUY is one of KLM's larger regional spokes) but no real appeal to lo-co, now that DSA is running, and charters will come and go as the market dictates.....

[ryansf]

The one business flight it has is poorly performing..
Mostly due to the fact that the flight times are poor...not DSA's fault.
Shaheen, whilst being unreliable so far, have opted for LBA over DSA!!!
Rightly so...West Yorkshire has a MUCH bigger asian population than South Yorkshire...Bradford!
Don't forget, DSA is not even three years old, and has grown substantially in that time, now doing over 1m passengers a year. How many passengers did EMA/LBA have after that time?!

[sparkshy]

you can't really compare passenger figures like that.
There has been a huge change with lowcost flights that were never offered when lba etc were 3 years old.

It looks like it will become more and more competative in the future and it will be interesting when jet2 have to renegotiate, same as when thomsonflys welcome deal finishes.

The airline bosses are ruthless and think nothing of pulling out at short notice, just look at teeside.

[ADC2604]

I assume the 'poor performing' route which people are making reference to is BHD?

[pug]

I assume the 'poor performing' route which people are making reference to is BHD?

Yes BHD, though Peel claim to be in talks regarding reinstating the AMS and Paris flights, im assuming that will be Flybe also. If so could that be down to their downsizing at LPL and the need to see out a contract? They will operate the Jersey next year, but only once a week!

Rightly so...West Yorkshire has a MUCH bigger asian population than South Yorkshire...Bradford!
Don't forget, DSA is not even three years old, and has grown substantially in that time, now doing over 1m passengers a year. How many passengers did EMA/LBA have after that time?!

As has been said, growth due to low cost operators has totaly accelerated in the last ten years. LBA and EMA were both handling over 1mppa before they gained low-cost operators...

I think people look at what has happened with LPL and expect the same at DSA, Peel got in LPL at the right time, it was Easyjet who did their homework... In the Doncaster Freepress Mr Ryall claims that they are hoping to make DSA a long-haul hub, either hes putting a positive spin on the previous 'pull out' story or hes being naive.

The airport has asked Doncaster Council for five years of business rates relief, backdated until April 2005 citing "financial hardship"


Apparantly to make them more competative...

[wawkrk]

I don't think LBA can be compared with DSA.In the past LBA has always attracted a large percentage of business passengers. When LBA was at 1m pax I think about 80% were main line scheduled flights.A much higher percentage even than Luton.On the other side of the coin,LBA was always underserved by IT flights.A lot of airport growth in general was in scheduled flights and these tended to give slow increases in passenger numbers.
From memory,LBA was 11th in the league tables at the time and airports like Liverpool were nowhere to be seen.Now LBA I think is about 16th and below Liverpool at 12th despite the rapid growth by Jet2.
An airport can expand rapidly when a big IT programme is implemented or a loco opens a base.The business can also be lost just as quickly so in conclusion,a much more volatile market.

[pug]

That is my point, LBA has a stable business base from which to grow. Not all eggs in the same basket. I believe because of the large catchment area and the expanding city of Leeds (its like a mini manhattan now) will be the only viable long-haul airport this side of the hills...

Though i was against DSA initialy, i dont want it to fail now it is opened, pointless... Just a bit sad to think that the region, bar LBA, could go into saturation because of it.

[robo283]

The lo co phenomenon is around a decade old. The IT market lasted around 25 years as a reasonably mass entity so it depends on where the market goes next. The IT industry grew because it was less highly regulated than scheduled services. Once scheduled services were deregulated, they expanded rapidly. Now people can, at least on short to medium haul, fly more or less where they want for a reasonable price so it's hard to see how you can improve on that. Long haul liberalisation is just a variation on a theme and will have little effect on the existing lo co industry. The future is probably lower capacity point to point (which is the market that Boeing is hanging its hat on). Unless of course there is a war, mass terrorism or the treehuggers get their way......

I've often wondered what would have happened if Donny International had been built before Jet2 came on the scene, or if Church Fenton had been developed instead of Finningley.

[pug]

Long haul liberalisation is just a variation on a theme and will have little effect on the existing lo co industry. The future is probably lower capacity point to point (which is the market that Boeing is hanging its hat on)

So could this mean that the 787 could open up new long-haul routes that would not be profitable with say a 757/767? That places such as DSA, BOH, EXT and those size airports could make flights to New York and Dubai viable?

I've often wondered what would have happened if Donny International had been built before Jet2 came on the scene, or if Church Fenton had been developed instead of Finningley.

Somewhere to the South or East of Leeds would almost certainly have been THE only airport for Yorkshire and Humber. Had one been built in the area of the M62/M1/A1, could have rivaled MAN easily...

[robo283]

To quote my brother, who deals in such matters, "The 787 is simply a 767 with a new nose"....

[pug]

So for airports like BRS, having CO with its 757's, it will have little difference? Unless markets can be developed for the smaller airports to join the long-haul network, people will still have to travel to MAN, BHX or the London airports for these routes?

I think people forget that we live on a small, albeit hugely populated, island... When compared to big nations like the USA, most of us in the UK can be at a major airport within a couple of hours down the motorway or on the train, which puts the need for long-haul from most regions into perspective? Correct me if im wrong here..

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Rightly so...West Yorkshire has a MUCH bigger asian population than South Yorkshire...Bradford!
Don't forget, DSA is not even three years old, and has grown substantially in that time, now doing over 1m passengers a year. How many passengers did EMA/LBA have after that time?!

Bradford's Bouncing Back:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Don't get me started.....

[Stampe]

Pug your spot on,I,m a 76/75 driver working for an operator with a large order for the 787.I can,t see what all the fuss is about its just a plastic 767 thats going to use less fuel and with a bit more range.As I already find the 767,s endurance greatly excedes my own personal range I,m secretly hoping to retire on the 767 without the pain of a conversion on to what is basically a very similar aeroplane.The crew bunks planned on the 787 are not that palatial either so no need to get excited on that front. Another wise saying is never fly the mark one of any aircraft type.Airline pilots "the asbestos workers of this age"VBR Stampe:ok:

[Homo Simpson]

Just interested why so many people think that their local airport is going to get long haul routes or somehow should have them?
There are, like it or not, only a few airports in this country that will ever have a good selection of the illustrious long haul ops.
Its not my city/region is better than yours but stark reality based amongst others the catchment area and the economic size of the region within which the airport resides and not forgeting the ability to get premium passengers on board.
I really think some people need a reality check and accept that Doncaster, for example, while no doubt a success is not going to become a long haul hub and is far more likely to offer a good selection of destinations that will make money with mostly lower cost carriers.

[pug]

I hear LS have been to look around HUY in the last month or so, wonder if theyve done the same at DSA? Could be looking to replace TOM's city destinations...

[idlejack]

Wizzair announces 3 times a week to DSA staring 1.4.2008

[harrogate]

Didn't hear the details in full, but at least 2 reports on the local radio today of DSA being in crisis, with one allegedly 'in the know' big-wig chap saying that it faces closure if business doesn't pick up soon!

[RAFAT]

After watching Peel Holdings stick faithfully with the project from the very start, it would be such a shame to see things deteriorate so soon, but it has to be said that things have been a little slow at DSA.

[isa kite]

Sounds to me more like a bit of Peel spin designed to encourage further concessions from the local council?:rolleyes:

[DTVAirport]

I know from what Peel said before DSA opened that they should be handling 5m pax per year heading towards 15m, but that sounds more like it could be the nearby Sheffield City Airport which Peel also own?

[idlejack]

Posted on airport website

http://www.robinhoodairport.com/page.php?p=3&media_id=171&offset=0&month=Jan

[johnnychips]

Here are the loads for four routes if you are interested:

Gerona 66%
Dublin 67%
Gdansk 68%
Katowice 70%

[gary4444]

Hugh Lang taking over until a replacement MD is appointed.

[DTVAirport]

You have my sympathy.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Hi,

before xmas it was on local news that finningley had asked the local gov. to not pay the local rates for upto 5 years (which at the time I was astonished by). The reason given is that the airport was having financial difficulties [Peel £££!!!]. Does anyone know the outcome to this request? I would have thought the answer would be simple: raise landing charges to create more revenue. Offering ridiculous deals to airlines to get them on board is fine but routes will only work if there is a genuine demand AFTER these deals have finished. I really do not think it is fair for an airport to ask to wave their rates just because they have over estimated local demand for flights. I don't want to antagonise finningley supporters, but surely the airport has to be able to stand on its own two feet on a level playing field?

Regards,

Leeds App.

[javier.mjv]

Hi to everyone,

I work at MJV as Duty Manager and Handling Services supervisor. A few days ago, I was having a look to the slot request for the comming summer season and spotted a new airline whose OACI code is FEM, that had requested a weekly service operated on Saturdays from DSA to MJV.
I started my research work but just a few comments in some forums and a couple of articules mentioning the name are the results I got.
Could anybody of you give me further info on it?
Is an airlines that has not even been created ask for slots at an airport?

Thanks so much for any info provided

Javier

[airhumberside]

Thats interesting as up until now there has been no information thats its any more than an April Fools Joke. A certain enthusiast magazine has been the only source about their plans and that start date was given as April 1st ...

But if they have applied for slots then I presume they are for real. Though its getting late to launch for summer now

[Avman]

Not UK International Airlines by any chance? They do (did) have a B767 painted up in full livery last year and it did fly now and again on ACMI work. Don't know if they're still going but I do believe they had plans to fly out of DSA. However, more recent reports seem to indicate that they are already in a spot of financial trouble (bills and salaries not paid etc.).

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-International-Airlines/Boeing-767-222/1283198/L/

[dsatristar]

There is no link between UKIA and Flyem. Flyem were registered at Companies House late last year. You can read the link below to the the only available information.

http://www.egcn.co.uk/1209.htm

[niknak]

A very professional website, which also confirms that unfortunately they're doing nothing and going nowhere.
I rung 4 of the travel agents advertised on their site, 2 said they'd committed time and their own staff costs to taking on potential work with the airline, the other two said that thaey'd refused to take any work from them until "certain assurances" could be given and none were forthcoming.

Read into that what you will.

[airhumberside]

Niknak - the only Flyem website I can find from a google search is currently 'under construction' :confused:

[javier.mjv]

What I can not really understand is how they have been allocated slots at least at MJV if they have not even been born yet.
I thought AENA´s slot allocation department would have a look at every airlines´ situation before assigning the slot cause this way they prevent many other airlines (real ones) I mean from getting what they really want and the flights they do really want to operate.
It is actually a waste of time and money, because, at least in MJV´s case, Saturday mornings are really valuable for the operators. Fortunately they only applied for one weekly flight.

On the other hand, would you be able to tell me if there is an airline interested in opening a DSA-MJV direct link? Doncaster is actually one of the few airport we do not fly directly to.

Thanks!!!

[niknak]

Air Humberside - you are absolutely correct, it was there yesterday, advertising a wide range of different services, perhaps they've seen this forum and pulled it.

A classic case of here today, gone tommorrow perhaps?;)

[SFCC]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but can somebody in the know please enlighten me as to what is involved in the Marshalls Aerospace tie-up with Doncaster Airport.

As an aside, somebody told me that Mr. R***l has left the building.

Anybody?

[TSR2]

On tour with Elvis is the rumour :)

[blackbuck]

http://www.marshallaerospace.com/newmenu/mediaroom/defaultdetail.asp?ID=74

hope this helps BB.

[johnnychips]

Please note that there are two other threads on the Airlines, Airports and Routes pages. One's FlyEm at Doncaster (on page 2 of the subject list), but the other, main one is DONCASTER/SHEFFIELD, which is on p4 as I type this. If you read this, you'll see the info about changed personnel. Perhaps we should all use that one rather than be scattered all over the place?

[Wellington Bomber]

Bloody hell, that guy on the picture on the right is about 8ft tall, would not mess with him

[robo283]

By my calculations, if FlyEm plans to carry 360000 pax in a single 737-800 in its first twelve months, that's approximately 1000 rotations i.e. 3 rotations a day, year round. Somewhat optimistic in my view, unless they are looking at short routes with year-round appeal :sad:

[baps]

Anyone know what aircraft types thomsonfly will be operating at DSA this summer?

[airhumberside]

B737-300 and B737-800 I think

[johnnychips]

For your interest, here are the loads on some routes:

Belfast 48%
Jersey 53%
Dublin 54%
Gerona 59%
Geneva 62%
Gdansk 75%
Katowice 81%
Faro 84%
Tenerife S 91%

[A320fan]

Belfast, Jersey and Dublin not looking too healthy compared to TFS! But I guess thats to be expected at this time of year.

[airhumberside]

Belfast certainly isnt a seasonal route. As has been said before, its flight times that dont allow for a day return which are causing the problems - the morning flight is too late

[aidoair]

Not surprising at all that the polish routes have high load factors, seems the poles like Doncaster :\

[johnnychips]

Ryanair are running x5 a week to Gerona from April, the new flight being on Saturdays.

:)

[wantabe_crew]

I heard today from a very good sauce that Virgin has spoken to DSA to start a weekly service long haul could this mean Robin Hood is going up in the world? The biggest a/c they have these days are the Antonov!:ok:

[airhumberside]

very good sauce
Tomato, Cheese or Brown ;)

[wantabe_crew]

No the MD PA is a very good late night friend!!

Pillow talk always works!!:mad:

[pug]

More long-haul dreaming from Yorkshires second airport? Or a charter service summer only to Orlando?

[johnnychips]

Again, for your interest, here are some load factors from the provisional statistics:

Jersey 55%
Dublin 63%
Alicante 69% - though I can't distinguish FR/TOM
Gerona 70%
Gdansk 72%
Geneva 73%
Las Palmas 81%
Katowice 83%
Malaga 84%
Tenerife S 85%
Turin 93%

[ryansf]

I heard today from a very good sauce that Virgin has spoken to DSA to start a weekly service long haul could this mean Robin Hood is going up in the world? The biggest a/c they have these days are the Antonov!
The Virgin rumour has been around since long before the airport even opened., the most extravagant being Sir Richard has bought land on which to build a hangar, basing his fleet of A380s here. We get plenty of 747 in though, so Virgin won't be bringing anything new... (unless it's a 340!)

More long-haul dreaming from Yorkshires second airport
Dream? I must have imagined those services to Florida and Cancun last year then... unless they were at Leeds, Yorkshire's "First" airport?

According to two different Thomson travel shops, long haul is to return for Summer 09, but we'll have to wait and see on that one...

[Suzeman]

I heard today from a very good sauce .....

No the MD PA is a very good late night friend!!

Pillow talk always works!!:mad:


Very saucy indeed.

Hope you've not dropped her/him in it with this comment.:uhoh:

Suzeman

[pug]

Dream? I must have imagined those services to Florida and Cancun last year then... unless they were at Leeds, Yorkshire's "First" airport?



Did you read the full sentence i wrote? Weekly Orlando flight perhaps? I dont doubt that... But why would Virgin want to operate a weekly Orlando charter flight.

Ok dreaming may be a bit harsh but still, after the three years DSA has been open, people still believe it is a major airport. Take a look around, look at the facts!

[dbertman]

It may not be a major airport yet, but it has the potential (both in terms of facilities and catchment area) to expand beyond what it is now.

[pug]

It may not be a major airport yet, but it has the potential (both in terms of facilities and catchment area) to expand beyond what it is now.


Please explain, how has the catchment area got the potential for major expansion?

[dbertman]

Please explain, how has the catchment area got the potential for major expansion?

That's not what I meant. I mean a large area of people are within about an hour or so drive of the airport, thus providing the airport with a (potentially) large passenger base. Not that the actual catchment area will expand.

[DispExt]

sorry if its been brought up before, but does anyone know why shaheen chose leeds in the end over doncaster?

[skyman771]

sorry if its been brought up before, but does anyone know why shaheen chose leeds in the end over doncaster?
Bradford !!

[pug]

That's not what I meant. I mean a large area of people are within about an hour or so drive of the airport, thus providing the airport with a (potentially) large passenger base. Not that the actual catchment area will expand.

Its not as easy as that though, as they are finding this time around.

It is quite obvious why Shaheen went to Leeds, any other significant long-haul will do the same.

[LeedsN1]

Doncaster/Sheffield airport might have a big catchment area but Leeds Bradford airport has the biggest population within an hour of the airport it is also serving a bigger population overall and serves a major financial sector outside London. This is what some of the long haul arilines will be looking at, its not just the longer runways but the number of people that will use them.

[danieloakworth]

LBA also involves 30 minutes down a minor road to get to it from the A1. Give me RHADS any day.

[pug]

LBA also involves 30 minutes down a minor road to get to it from the A1. Give me RHADS any day.


That has nothing to do with it at all wether it gets long haul or not. LBA is by far in the best position if the demand from this region was ever created. As it stands i believe that despite the 200,000 pax leaving Yorkshire to fly to NYC, they are not high yielding business travellers and so MAN for some time will have this sewn up as the north west provides much of these high paying regulars.

[johnnychips]

Here is a selection for your interest:

Belfast 63%
Dublin 70%
Jersey 72%
Poznan 72%
Gdansk 75%
Gerona 77%
Wroclaw 80%
Las Palmas 80%
Katowice 84%
Alicante (FR and TOM) 91%
Faro 95%
Tenerife S 95%

[razzele]

What was the story with the damaged Seminole last week ?

I saw it parked up with bent props, anyone got the gen ?:>

[idlejack]

Police and emergency services were called to Robin Hood Airport today after a light aircraft crash landed.

The aircraft was understood to be on a training flight from Leeds Bradford Aiport when the front wheel collapsed on landing just after 10am.

Police say there were two people on board the aircraft, neither of whom was hurt.

The incident blocked the main runway for around one and a half hours, causing a flight from Dublin to be delayed, though not diverted.

The Department of Transport's Air Accident Investgation Branch has been notified of the incident.

Multiflight Beech 76 G-OADY

[dbertman]

The first stage of the rail link for DSA has been given the go ahead:

Green light for first stage of air-rail link - The Star (http://www.thestar.co.uk/doncaster/Green-light-for-first-stage.4219774.jp)

[flybar]

None Payment Of Local Rates
Hi,

before xmas it was on local news that finningley had asked the local gov. to not pay the local rates for upto 5 years (which at the time I was astonished by). The reason given is that the airport was having financial difficulties [Peel £££!!!]. Does anyone know the outcome to this request? I would have thought the answer would be simple: raise landing charges to create more revenue. Offering ridiculous deals to airlines to get them on board is fine but routes will only work if there is a genuine demand AFTER these deals have finished. I really do not think it is fair for an airport to ask to wave their rates just because they have over estimated local demand for flights. I don't want to antagonise finningley supporters, but surely the airport has to be able to stand on its own two feet on a level playing field?

Regards,

Leeds App.

BBC Local Television news announces that Doncaster Council has refused to waive the paying of rates - and rightly so!!.

Peel say that airport is losing £1m per month!!

How long will that be allowed to go on?

[N707ZS]

Four years for the station! In the good old days the RAF used to knock one up for the airshow the track was not that far away.
Peel have a station at DTVA and it only gets used once a week!

Does Peel really have a major airports plan???

[dsatristar]

It took Peel 10 years to get a profit out of LPL so they knew what they were getting themselves into as there was no immediate gains over there.

They overhyped DSA and with the economic climate as it is and the improved local competition it means it isn't as easy as they thought it would be.

The whole local rates issue smacks of Peel trying it on to get more money out of the local council who have backed them to the hilt so far.

Cheeky? That's Peel.

[Suzeman]

To answer the query on rates, I just found this on UK Airport News.:eek:

Suzeman

Robin Hood Airport faces higher operating costs after councillors refused to bail out operators with hardship relief worth nearly £4 million, the Free Press reports. Peel Holdings - owners of the airport - lost its appeal for exemption from paying business rates for four years at a council meeting on Friday.

This year the airport paid rates of £803,880 for its site at Finningley. Airport bosses said that, as a result of the decision, they cannot now afford to market the airport and Doncaster overseas in a bid to attract more people to the area.

Airport bosses had argued the business rates represented a ‘very significant overhead’ and not paying them would have allowed Peel to increase its overseas marketing to encourage more airlines to use the £100m development. If granted, the local authority would have had to pass on a shortfall in its income of nearly £1 million to tax-payers which would have seen council tax bills rise by 1.1 percent.

The council declined the appeal - which had initially been rejected last year - stating the case did not satisfy the necessary criteria to be granted under Local Government Finance Act 1988.