Meaning of "flexible" tickets

[chornedsnorkack]

What precisely does a "flexible" ticket mean, in terms of the commitment of airline to the ticket holder?

If a business class or high price economy ticket "allows changes" but the flight to which the passenger wants to change is sold out, or there are other people holding "flexible" tickets and wanting to change to the same flight, what is the passenger entitled to?

[slim_slag]

It is totally dependant on the fare rules, and as I once found out the way the checkin agent interprets them. So on that occasion the commitment of the airline was non existant as they refused to issue me with a boarding pass for a clearly changeable ticket which I had earlier changed using their phone customer service agent. Then they blamed me as I clearly should have known this, but the customer service agent must have been new and wasn't expected to :yuk:

If you have a full fare ticket and they play silly games you can just get your money back and rebook on another airline. If you have certain status and book a few days in advance most airlines will guarantee you a seat in economy if you pay full fare even if the plane is full. Not that it matters, as they regularly sell seats to punters when the plane is full, but they get more money off you that way.

If you think you might change the return date the best way to do it is to purchase a discounted ticket where the fare rules let you pay a fee, usually around £100/$150, and they put you on the next flight where a seat of that fare type is available. That might not be the day you want, but usually they can get you home within a reasonable period. You usually need to make the change before your ticketed flight departs. If you buy the cheapest cheapest ticket you will probably be unable to do this. If you purchase the ticket through a consolidator the airlines often don't know what the fare rules are, so get the consolidator to put in the notes that you can change the ticket and how much. It's all a joke really, they will enforce rules but if they don't know what they are then they can make it up. If you want to change the outbound flight on a cheap ticket you are generally out of luck.

So that's my experience, others might be able to add/change things.

[Bangkokeasy]

I suspect your question is, whether your place in the pecking order of seat allocation changes if you switch between carriers on a flexible ticket. I leave those with greater knowledge than I to answer that.

However, I concur with slim_slag that the fun starts when you start to push the envelope as to what you can actually practically do with a ticket. I have found, for instance, that in Asia, it is usually possible to turn up for a flight other than that you are ticketed and booked for and you will get on with no extra penalty, as long as it is in the same class on the same airline and the flight is not full (I know this is a bit naughty :O ). This works regardless of whether the ticket is discounted or not.

That said, conversely, in Asia it can be difficult to endorse even a full fare ticket from one airline to another, sometimes requiring the issuing airline to physically endorse the ticket over. Difficult if out of working hours!

Appreciate that in Europe and US, things are different.

[slim_slag]

I have found, for instance, that in Asia, it is usually possible to turn up for a flight other than that you are ticketed and booked for and you will get on with no extra penalty, as long as it is in the same class on the same airline and the flight is not full (I know this is a bit naughty :O ).
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Appreciate that in Europe and US, things are different.

It really all depends. On a recent trip to the US on a US carrier on a filthy cheap ticket where it said in the fare rules no changes possible, I was able to walk up and get on the next available flight, with no penalty, on two out of six sectors. One was the international flight back to the UK, which they had refused to change when I called up on the phone. I have found that sometimes they will enforce every rule, sometimes enforce rules which don't apply, and often waive rules one one day that they will enforce on another. Sometimes you just have to try and see what happens, though I suspect having status helps.

[chornedsnorkack]

I suspect your question is, whether your place in the pecking order of seat allocation changes if you switch between carriers on a flexible ticket. I leave those with greater knowledge than I to answer that.


I was actually more interested in what happens when a passenger on flexible ticket attempts to switch to a different flight on the same carrier.

However, I concur with slim_slag that the fun starts when you start to push the envelope as to what you can actually practically do with a ticket.
Another thing that can lead to fun is when the envelope is getting pushed against you by things like ticket sales or the holders of other flexible tickets using their flexibility.
I have found, for instance, that in Asia, it is usually possible to turn up for a flight other than that you are ticketed and booked for and you will get on with no extra penalty, as long as it is in the same class on the same airline and the flight is not full (I know this is a bit naughty :O ). This works regardless of whether the ticket is discounted or not.

Does it work like "standby on earlier flight" or is it wider?

That said, conversely, in Asia it can be difficult to endorse even a full fare ticket from one airline to another, sometimes requiring the issuing airline to physically endorse the ticket over. Difficult if out of working hours!

Issuing airline... the airline where the ticket was first supposed to be flown with or the airline which ends up flying the ticket after endorsement?

[The SSK]

I was actually more interested in what happens when a passenger on flexible ticket attempts to switch to a different flight on the same carrier.
I think you are inventing complications here. If a flight is full up to its booking limit then you will not be able to get a seat on it, whether you are trying to pay for it using cash, credit card or exchanging a flexible ticket on another flight.
The issuing airline is the airline on whose paper the ticket was written, and who is holding your money. They will usually but not always be the first airline in a multi-sector journey involving carrier changes although strictly speaking they don't need to be part of the itinerary at all.

[chornedsnorkack]

I think you are inventing complications here. If a flight is full up to its booking limit then you will not be able to get a seat on it, whether you are trying to pay for it using cash, credit card or exchanging a flexible ticket on another flight.

Ah - that makes sense.

Effectively then, a "flexible" ticket would be one that is as good as cash paid for it if trying to rebook to a flight that has not reached the booking limit, and as useless when the ticket has reached that limit? Airline only earns anything when the passenger flies a flight?

Whereas the non-flexible tickets have the property that whenever a passenger attempts to change the ticket, the airline either collects a change fee in addition to the original fare, or else the ticket is forfeited altogether and the airline keeps the fare without having to fly the passenger anywhere?

However, it seems that the abundance of slightly different fares depending on details like flight time, the expecte loadsof airplane et cetera could make it hard to find exactly equal fares, even for a "flexible", high-fare ticket...

[slim_slag]

no. they say they will guarantee you a seat on on a full flight if you have sufficient status, book a day or so in advance, and pay for a full fare ticket. They might have to bump somebody, but that's the risk they take whenever they overbook. No doubt the compensation they pay to the person bumped is less than the difference in price you paid for a full fare ticket, so they even make money on the deal.

[christep]

As a CX Diamond member, I can get a guaranteed seat on a CX flight at 24 hours notice on ANY economy fare, even heavily discounted ones. I love this benefit, although I do feel slightly guilty for a while when someone gets kicked off a full flight to accommodate me. (For business class I have similar, but only on full J fares, not discounted)

[chornedsnorkack]

As a CX Diamond member, I can get a guaranteed seat on a CX flight at 24 hours notice on ANY economy fare, even heavily discounted ones. I love this benefit, although I do feel slightly guilty for a while when someone gets kicked off a full flight to accommodate me. (For business class I have similar, but only on full J fares, not discounted)
Does that mean that due to your CX Diamond privileges, CX will sell you a heavily discounted economy ticket up to 24 hours before flight AND bump a lower-status passenger, such as infrequent/first time full-fare economy passenger?

[slim_slag]

That's pretty good christep, are there any other airlines that offer that? It's not very common you get that sort of service from European/US airlines. Have always suspected that the Asian airlines look after their frequent fliers the best, but it costs a lot to get into their really exclusive plans.

[CargoOne]

As a CX Diamond member, I can get a guaranteed seat on a CX flight at 24 hours notice on ANY economy fare, even heavily discounted ones. I love this benefit, although I do feel slightly guilty for a while when someone gets kicked off a full flight to accommodate me. (For business class I have similar, but only on full J fares, not discounted)

I'm not familar with CX conditions at all, but when I'm exercising my privileges at other carriers in order to get a confirmed seat within the 24/48 hours on a flight which is sold out (and closed for further sales/bookings) I need to buy a full fare Y or C ticket, otherwise it not works.

[christep]

Does that mean that due to your CX Diamond privileges, CX will sell you a heavily discounted economy ticket up to 24 hours before flight AND bump a lower-status passenger, such as infrequent/first time full-fare economy passenger?If the flight is totally full then yes (although unlikely to be full far - they would bump a discounted fare passenger first I believe). But more often what happens is that, being Diamond, I am near the top op the op-up list and I end up sitting in business :)

[slim_slag]

christep,

If the flight is totally full in economy, how do they decide which discounted fare to give you?

[christep]

christep,
If the flight is totally full in economy, how do they decide which discounted fare to give you?I can buy whatever published fare I want that would be valid on that flight, so I will normally buy the cheapest mileage-earning fare. Diamond members still have to meet all the other rules associated with that fare (so if the Fare Rules say "not valid on flight CX123" then I can't use that fare on CX123) - it's simply that no available economy fare class sells out as far as Diamonds are concerned.

[chornedsnorkack]

I can buy whatever published fare I want that would be valid on that flight, so I will normally buy the cheapest mileage-earning fare. Diamond members still have to meet all the other rules associated with that fare (so if the Fare Rules say "not valid on flight CX123" then I can't use that fare on CX123) - it's simply that no available economy fare class sells out as far as Diamonds are concerned.
Does it mean that the Diamond members have the guaranteed right to buy (any number of) tickets at the lowest fare where CX has sold or offered any tickets for the flight?

[christep]

Does it mean that the Diamond members have the guaranteed right to buy (any number of) tickets at the lowest fare where CX has sold or offered any tickets for the flight?No - only one for myself, not even for anyone accompanying me. And only if all of the other fare rules for that ticket (apart from being sold out on that flight) are met.

[CargoOne]

I still cannot understand this as well. Basically you need to exercise your privilege only when flight is closed for sale, otherwise you can just buy a ticket as all other passengers do. If the flight is closed for sale it means that there are no any kind of fare valid on this flight. If there is some booking class still available it means anyone can buy it.
For example LH Senator (which is I believe the same class as CX Diamond) can get a confirmed seat on flight which is sold out on a basis that he will buy C-fare 48 before the flight, or Y-fare 72 hours before the flight, and these conditions are clearly specified in rules. LH HON is basically the same on this matter.

So I'm second to chornedsnorkack question - how exactly it works with CX Diamond? There are probably about 10 different booking classes in economy, ranging from very cheap to expensive, so you can choose which one you want?

[chornedsnorkack]

No - only one for myself, not even for anyone accompanying me.
One per a CX Diamond member wishing to travel on a flight, but any number of different CX Diamond members on any one flight?

I suppose that with, e. g. an event attended by a bunch of CX Diamond members each paying and arranging for his/her own travels, you could very well have a single point cause leading to a significant number of wealthy and high-level passengers (who before the changes in their plans had confirmed tickets to different flights, according to availability) attempting to change to a single flight (e. g. last flight in the evening for a given destination).