Another QF route goes to Jetstar

[Sue Ridgepipe]

The Jetstar juggernaut rolls on, with the latest announcement that Jetstar will replace QF on the Melbourne-Darwin route:

QANTAS MEDIA RELEASE

DARWIN, 1 March 2006: The Qantas Group today announced changes to its Darwin
schedule, including the start of Jetstar services to the Northern Territory from 1 May.
The new schedule will see Qantas and Jetstar operating services to Darwin from both
Brisbane and Adelaide and Jetstar replacing Qantas on services to Darwin from
Melbourne. Qantas Executive General Manager John Borghetti said that the new schedule would offer
more than 700 additional seats each week plus maintain existing frequencies offered by
the Qantas Group.

Under the new Qantas Group schedule starting from 1 May:
• Qantas will operate a daily service between Darwin and Brisbane, while Jetstar will
operate a further six weekly return services;
• Qantas will operate a daily service between Darwin and Adelaide, while Jetstar will
operate another two services per week; and
• Jetstar will operate six weekly return services each week between Darwin and
Melbourne from 1 May, increasing to a daily service from 1 July.

“Darwin is an important market for the Qantas Group and these changes reflect our
commitment to providing a sustainable service and better meeting the needs of
passengers travelling on these routes,” Mr Borghetti said.

[RENURPP]

That really bugs me. There is no way on this planet that I will pay to travel with that mob. Public transport in Africa is more comfortable, and better class of passenger.
They maybe oK for a qick sydney melbourne or the like but no way will I sit for 4 hrs. Thats my choice.
My biggest fear is that they start flights between brisbane/Sydney and Darwin
and the company I work for will book us with this mob.:}

[Capt Claret]

RENURPP

Be afraid. Be very afraid. :{

[Ultralights]

sadly thats the QF grand plan, QF will only fly International, and only then on the routes that they have protected, eg SYD/LAX every other QF flight will be J*

i cant wait for Ozjet to get a good network. there is no way im giving up my Business class to be forced onto a 1 star airline... whenever possible, Vb is the way. when i fly i like to be treated like a person, not cattle branded with a $ sign. and im willing to pay the premium for the legroom, free drinks, and sadly lacking improved over economy, service on QF Business class

[ur2]

MMMMMMMM I wonder who you work for :rolleyes:

[ratpoison]

Public transport in Africa is more comfortable, and better class of passenger.

Oh, is that right.!!!! Yeah much better, particularly out of Kenya, Nigeria, Zambia, Tansania and Ghana. Lets not forget Libya and Sudan. Yep, just :mad:ing wonderful.:yuk:

[Prop's ????]

Qantas is giving away services to Jet Star.

Many people I talk to believe Jet Star are adding flights to the service, which could flood the market.

Not true.

[Lord Snot]

will operate six weekly return services each week between Darwin and Melbourne So does this mean: once a week, for six weeks, they will operate a return flight?

Or is it: every six weeks they will operate a return flight?

Not much of a service either way, in my HO. Edited to correct spacing ;)

Seriously, who wrote that drivel? Or, as your average airline pilot would say, "Who wrote that dribble?"

:zzz:

[Shitsu_Tonka]

If there is no QF service will the fare rise? If the fare rises will the customer choose allocated seating airline or free- for-all airline?

Surely this is a win for Virgin?

[Ultralights]

MMMMMMMM I wonder who you work for :rolleyes:
I dont work for ANY airline..... The Only things we carry go BOOM

[Baxter Dewall]

****su Tonka,

I do stand to be corrected on this but I thought I read somewhere that DJ were pulling out of ML-DN also due to low yield.
They will continue ADL-DN and BN-DN, but ML- DN was to get the axe.

If this is to be the case then the punter has no option than to fly with the one star airline. Sought of makes sense why QF would pull out and offer the "el cheapo" option. What's the bet the cost is no different though!:ok:

[CoodaShooda]

It might be a win for Virgin but its a total loss for locals flying out of Darwin. :mad:

I'm too tall and... 'ahem'... broad to fit in a standard QF economy seat for any length of time; and I'm not the only local in that class. (even my teenage sons are taller than me now)

Any destination over 2 hours away and I'm looking for business class unless they can guarantee row 4 or an overwing exit.

If mainline domestic is replaced by low cost cattle class, then I'll have to be driving within the Territory for business and looking to take my holidays overseas. (Its only an extra 10 hours travelling time to drive to the Alice rather than fly):mad:

[Dookie on Drums]

****su Tonka,

I do stand to be corrected on this but I thought I read somewhere that DJ were pulling out of ML-DN also due to low yield.
They will continue ADL-DN and BN-DN, but ML- DN was to get the axe.

If this is to be the case then the punter has no option than to fly with the one star airline. Sought of makes sense why QF would pull out and offer the "el cheapo" option. What's the bet the cost is no different though!:ok:

DJ don't fly ADL-DRW mate. Not sure about your MEL-DRW theory but who knows??:rolleyes:

[tinpis]

Yep cooda its no good fer us....erm powerfully built types
Its the Bitumen Boeing for us mate

By the way...missus tin has been watching kwanas seat prices to MEL as we head towards April school hols.They have had at least three rises in the past week.
I guess its what we deserve for voting in a Labour government:{ :{

[Capt Claret]

Um, Tin, I'm a little perplexed. What's the connection with voting Labour and the arrival of Jet*?

[MIss Behaviour]

Looking at the Jay Queue website I note that the ADL/DRW flight is JQ936 with timings 1445/1820 and returns as JQ937 DRW/ADL 1850/2225.

I'm not being pessimistic here, just playing Devil's Advocate: What happens if they get a fail to board pax in ADL or someone who becomes too intoxicated to travel after appearing sober at check-in and they have to offload the pax plus their baggage?

Do they put the bagtag bingo stubs on the palette in the A320 to be used with a scanner for easy location of the bag to be offloaded or do they do it the old fashioned way ie dragging all the bags out of the palettes, after having to unload the said palettes from the A320 first that is?

Say you're looking at 30 minute delay for the above exercise leaving ADL and there's no way you can make a 30 minute turnaround any quicker as the time frame is slashed to the bone to start with, your timings are delayed on the return leg DRW/ADL to 1920/2255 and you're sailing dangerously close to the wind with a curfew in ADL of 2300. :eek: :eek:

What about when you need to hold in DRW due wx? The result is a further delay so next thing you know you're due in ADL post 2300 and unless it's a medical emergency I really doubt you'd get any dispensation to land late so what happens? Do Jay Queue put everyone in hotels or will they just make them sleep at the airport while they wait a mere 7 hours to be able to take off thereby arriving in ADL after 0600? :confused: :confused:

Oops, can't do that either as crew would be out of duty hours (I'm assuming that the same crew operate both forward and return legs). So pax are looking at a minimum 12 hour delay so the crew can have their rest which I guess will have to be on the floor of the terminal also if there's no hotel rooms to be found. :zzz: :zzz:

It's going to be a real baptism of fire for Jay Queue particular as they commence their services to DRW in the middle of the dry season when trying to get one hotel room can be difficult never mind 50!
The NT News is going to love it, move over cane toads and crocodiles you are about to be gazumped by new headings such as "Jetstar passengers terrifying ordeal in Darwin".........blah blah blah...... "passengers forced to sleep on floor". :{ :{

What is Jay Queue's policy if they go u/s? Do they transfer them to a Qantas flight or will pax just have to wait until the original a/c is operational again?

[Lagrange]

Will JQ Asia be flying into Darwin to connect with the new JQ services?

Heck....that could be more QF flying going to the the JQ camp (hic)

[Gordstar]

Terrific, but did Qantas bother to ask,or do they care, if people in Darwin want to be herded into a Jetstar aircraft or not? We all know the answer.......

[tinpis]

Um, Tin, I'm a little perplexed. What's the connection with voting Labour and the arrival of Jet*?

Um ...nothing really Clarrie ..just my mangled logic...but....
If for whatever agenda some silly bloody women have their way and a certain mine spits the dummy, there may be not much need for increased services to the top end.

[CoodaShooda]

tin

I've known QF prices to change while the booking agent's looking at the screen. :ooh:

Also known it to work the other way.

Lady Cooda was off to Sinney and we debated sending Cooda Kid 3 with her.

Cost of her advance ticket was around $600.

Four days from departure we were quoted $1100 for CK3
Two days out the quote was $980
Next day we rang to make the booking and got it for $600.

Clarry

I thought Madam Clare was responsible for everything that happens in the NT (or am I spending too much time reading the NT News :E )

[wirgin blew]

MIss Behaviour:

You can always do what we do with the crew for MEL-DRW which is operate up pax home and visa versa. Gives you a little more time to play with.
Also if they cant make curfew into ADL they could always head to Avalon or MEL for a nice camp out in the lounge.

[MIss Behaviour]

wirgin blue
Point taken re the deadheading of crew etc however you'd think from a commercial point of view they would want to have as many fare paying pax on board as possible but it does seem like a better redundancy plan.

Doesn't seem to be much point in diverting to AVV or MEL if the self-loading freight are still going to camp on the floor of the terminal. May as well leave 'em where they are and save on fuel for the diverson if using the mindset of a low cost carrier. := :=

Cooda
Trying to work out when the ideal time is to book is like knowing the answer to the $64,000 question. Yield mngt of any airline always want to sell seats at the optimum price but it's a fine line between having the higher economy airfares available and running the risk of seats going empty vs releasing lower fares closer to day of departure for a lower price and at least getting bums on seats albeit for less profit margin. :E :E

[Gordstar]

Everyone,
I have to thank you for your comments, it all makes interesting reading, and raises concerns for my friends I left behind in Darwin. Oh well, I guess the Qantas juggernaut shareholders won't mind..........................;)

[Capt Claret]

Cooda,

If you were to assume that Madame Clare was not impressed by the loss of mainline flights in favour of Jet*, or the loss of J Class on the QantasLink services, you'd be spot on.

However, no Govt in Oz, let alone the NT govt is able to dictate what the airline will or won't do. Feb govt might have more leverage but that's about it.

[J. Packer]

Flying on a Jetstar A320 beats flying a Mainline B737 in nearly every way.

Price: cheaper fares.

Fleet: newer, more technological advanced aircraft.

Speed: faster aircraft.

Punctuality: more reliable on-time performance.

Seating: leather, wider, more comfortable.

Air: better air conditioning, humidified.

Entertainment: better quality, better headsets, video movies on demand.

Food: adequate (improvements to follow soon).

Beverages: equally good.

Service: fresher, younger, friendlier.

[king oath]

Where can I buy a pair of those rose coloured glasses Mr Packer?

[Kanga767]

Mr Packer, If I may reply:-


Price - yep, OK.

Fleet - Do you think the average Territorian would notice, or care?? A Toyota HJ45 will do the same job as a Toyota HJZ 100 series. It will tow a tinny to Dundee Beach won't it?

Speed - See Fleet

Punctuality - Google "Darwin Time"

Seating - Refer Fleet/Speed

Air - Do you really think we need the air humidified up here?

Entertainment - What, at 2 in the morning?

Food - Fresh mud crab sandwiches beat the stuff they serve up front. It does get awkward explaining to security that the shoeing hammer is to crack the nippers though...

Beverages - You're talking about Territorians here, It's cold isn't it?...

Service - Refer Entertainment.


:} K

[RENURPP]

Packer,

have you ever travelled with this bunch?
I have a slightly different memory.
Price - cheap
Fleet - who cares as long is we get there in one peice
Speed - a few minutes BIG DEAL.
Punctuality - bugger all difference in reality. If I am late they, QF, does not steal my ticket.
Seating - Crap
Air - Take in to account who are sitting around you and, DREADFUL, Need O2 for the whole flight, especially out of Darwin.
Entertainment - Get what you pay for!
Food - Crap
Beverages - cheap hotel style
Service - or lack of.

The idea of who is up front will permanently deter me from travelling with them. It will remain QF the long way around or Virgin, and that erks me as well.

[Capt Basil Brush]

Regarding the speed, what do the J* 320's 'normally' cruise at? Can any J* crew give us an honest answer?

I imagine the QF NG's would normally cruise at .78 or .79 most of the time.

I dont think there would be any difference in time, if only marginally different.

BB

[jaded boiler]

Flying on a Jetstar A320 beats flying a Mainline 737 in nearly every way.

Price: Checking the internet websites for comparative fares showed that in most cases the fares were similar and on one particular route the Qantas fare was actually cheaper.

Fleet: Mainline 737 NGs have an almost identical average fleet age to Jetstar A320s.

Speed: Mainline 737 NGs cruise at the same speed as Jetstar A320s. The 717 is no rocket ship.

Punctuality: Negligible difference. Try to check in 29 1/2 minutes before scheduled departure time, maybe through no fault of your own, and do your dough.

Seating: Greater seat pitch for mainline. J* seat being made of "leather" minimal compensation for enduring close proximity to sub-literate, unwashed, bemulleted bogan.

Air: Cabin temperature on both fleets set to 23 degrees, humidity levels on both aircraft approx 16%, in flight cabin altitude on both aircraft approx 6500 feet.

Beverages: Equally good, but you got to pay on Jetstar.

Entertainment: Don't you pay extra for that too?

Average Crew Experience Level and Standard: Do I need to say anything here? Haven't a significant proportion of J* aircrew applied to and not met the required employment entry standard of QF, CX, (insert name of reputable, well-remunerating airline here)? Offer to do it for 40% less than the going rate though, and then all of a sudden you're good enough.

[MIss Behaviour]

Flying on a Jetstar A320 beats flying a Mainline 737 in nearly every way.

............however if you're an unaccompanied minor you won't get the chance to find out as Jetstar won't accept you. From the JQ website “Children requiring supervision will not be regarded as able to travel independently on the basis that they may cause a disruption or endanger themselves or others if travelling unaccompanied. As a guide, children who are not yet attending secondary school will be regarded as unable to travel independently and will not be eligible to travel”.

Hmmmm endanger others? What do they think is going to happen - an eight year old armed with his or her Winnie the Pooh activity pack is going to assault some grown ups? Well hope the kid is fully cashed as he'll have to shell out $6.00 bucks first for the colouring in book and that's before he gets hyper on coke at $??? per can. Can't recall ever seeing UM's offloaded for potentially endangering other pax. Have seen lots of 'adults' knocked back for being unsuitable to fly though.

At least Jetstar don't discriminate because the UM's aren't the only ones banned. The family labrador didn't get the nod either.....“Jetstar no longer accepts reservations for the carriage of Pets on any of its aircraft.” Oh well guess that means you'll have to shell out a mere $1,000.00 or so to send it unaccompanied. If your destination is DRW/MEL it would be much cheaper to buy a ticket on QF via SYD or ADL and only pay about $50.00 for your pet dog to accompany you. If travelling to BNE I'm sure DJ would be only too happy to accept you and your hound.

Mr Packer
Sounds more like a description of VH-CCC than an A320. I'd take a G-IV anyday! :ok: :ok:

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Haven't a significant proportion of J* aircrew applied to and not met the required employment entry standard of QF

Ah yes....and what about all those Eastern pilots that applied to J* through the supposed LOA last year, only for every single one to be told they were not suitable!!! Is the C&T standard really THAT BAD in Eastern?? :eek: :eek:
Make sure your life insurance is paid up if you plan to fly with 'em.

[Capt Claret]

JB

I don't know what speed QFDOM cruise at in the 73s but a month or so ago ex CNS, the 73NG was 30nm behind one of those non-rocket ship 71s as it (the NG) passes CS but 50nm behind by about GUGUK. The non-rocket wa at CI50 (M0.78).

As for Haven't a significant proportion of J* aircrew applied to and not met the required employment entry standard of QF, CX, (insert name of reputable, well-remunerating airline here)?

words fail me. :{ :{

[Chris Higgins]

Originally posted by Jaded Boiler...

Average Crew Experience Level and Standard: Do I need to say anything here? Haven't a significant proportion of J* aircrew applied to and not met the required employment entry standard of QF, CX, (insert name of reputable, well-remunerating airline here)? Offer to do it for 40% less than the going rate though, and then all of a sudden you're good enough.


.......


Ah well, you get what you pay for, and do you think things are gonna get any better?!

See reference NTSB documents Continental DC-9 at Denver.

The only qualification the troubled crew seemed to have was that they were prepared to work for half of the normal pay, offered by Mr Frank Lorenzo.

[Keg]

Chris et al,

I think it's a little unfair to tar all J* pilots as somehow being 'lesser pilots' than mainline on the basis of not getting in. There are a substantial number of pilots around the world who have not gotten through the QF selection process and go on to show that they are equally or more capable pilots. It would also be true that the QF selection process gets it right and some people go on to prove that as well.

However, I will note the hypocrisy in the QF logic that some crew who were unacceptable for mainline in the past are somehow now acceptable because they are paid $100K per annum less than a mainline crew! :rolleyes:

However, it will be interesting to see how J* progresses with international ops. I'm sure they have drivers with an international background but despite what some people may believe, it IS a different style of operation with a number of different things to be wary of. I've been reminded of that myself again recently! :}

[Agent Mulder]

I know of at least one mainline FO who has been contacted by Jetstar directly with an offer of employment. A330 endorsed and all.

[Sandy Freckle]

Keg,

I know of at least one bloke now flying as a skipper on 320's for J* who had the reputation of being the worst pilot ever to fly in his previous organisation. He went to Impulse because he couldn't get a job anywhere else, hung on somehow, and now look at him.

Oh, yes. He was turned down by Qantas. Twice. At the Psych stage.

Chris has a very valid point. These guys are acceptable to fly QF "Group" passengers, but only on a lower wage? Spare me...

This example renders the entire organisation as suspect.

Mate, It's all very nice to be warm and fuzzy all the time, but there comes a point where you have to make a stand.

I couldn't give a damn about these guys delicate sensibilities, or to be frank, yours. I could give a damn about the sensibilities of all of the innocent (albeit ugg boot wearing) punters down the back who though they were getting a decent operator up the front.

Dixon has put a spin on all of these IR savings that he is making, and it is going to come back and bite him in the cracker.

Rant over.:mad:

[tinpis]

It takes a superhuman ozzy to operate an international flight doesnt it?
Dont know how them little buggers to our north manage do you?

[Lagrange]

Sandy F and the many others who think the JQ pilots are second graders. You are very wrong. And if you want to play stupid games, I could give you the name of a QF pilot who was sacked by AN, knocked back by DJ and one overseas operator and is now an F/O with QF. Mate, that is a silly game. There are some very good pilots in QF. Some are average. All meet the required standard. The same applies to JQ, DJ et al. The JQ operation is subject to same audit process as QF.

The sooner we all showed some maturity and give a little more thought to what professionalism means, particularly in the stone throwing area, the sooner we will all get together as a united pilot group. It can be achieved. Dixon, AJ, Oldmeadow and Co must love reading some of these posts - with us divided, management reigns supreme.

[Popgun]

Well said Lagrange...the counterproductive, childish sledging makes me glad i chose to pursue this career o/s... :(

[Woomera]

This WAS about route transferrals. But it's getting personal again. :suspect:
**Click**