EMIRATES REALITY

[1pilot12345]

CONSIDERING EMIRATES? KEEP SOME QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES IN MIND. IF ON THE BOEING, YOUR CHIEF PILOT HAS OPENLY STATED THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE FOREIGNER (FOREIGNER MEANS NON ARAB). HE REFERS TO ARAB PILOTS AS 'ONE OF US'. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH AN ARAB PILOT AND HOW YOU CAN EXPECT TO BE JUDGED. IT WILL GET WORSE AS LEROY WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE TO LEAVE AND HE IS THE LAST DECENT MANAGER THERE. SOME OF THOSE WHO PICKED THE WRONG PEOPLE TO ARGUE WITH HAVE BEEN GROUNDED AND SENT TO LONDON FOR PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION. THE ARABS THEY PICKED THE ARGUMENT WITH WAS ALLOWED TO KEEP FACE, AND THEY KNOW IT AND BEHAVE TO YOU WITH THIS ATTITUDE.

IF YOU LEAVE A JOB TO GO THERE THEN YOU SHOULD FAIL THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION. WHICH INCIDENTLY IS A TRIPPING STONE FOR AN INCREASING NUMBER OF GOOD BLOKES WHO ARE BEING TURNED DOWN FOR COMMANDS.

EMIRATES IS BUYING AEROPLANES BUT WILL START RETIRING ITS AIRBUS 330 LATER THIS YEAR. DO YOUR SUMS, YOU MAY BE WAITING A LONG TIME FOR YOUR COMMAND INTERVIEW.

AMERICAN PILOTS BEWARE- YOU ARE NOT LIKED BY THOSE IN MANAGEMENT POSITIONS, PARTICULARELY THE 'LOCALS'. WHEN YOU TIME COMES FOR COMMAND UPGRADE, THEY CAN FAIL YOU AT INTERVIEW, PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION AND THEN THEIR VARIOUS 'TRAINING' STAGES.

CALL THIS THREAD WHAT YOU WANT BUT MY CUP OF EMIRATES AND DUBAI HAS 'BRIMMITH OVER' WITH THEIR HYPOCRISY.

[ratpoison]

Good rosters, great lifestyle, home just about every night, good salary...
Sounds as though you have decided to get out of aviation and got another career. :)

[steven coe]

Staying with my current employers.. Not a career change.. Still left seat..

Couldn't be better!:ok:

[SecurID]

http://aeromedical.org/index.php

A doctor's PPRuNe? Have a look guys, it's quite interesting... :eek:

[davidletterman]

Just the simple fact that there is no room in this place (UAE) to have an opinion and share it openly with everyone without fear of being punished and who knows what else, should give anyone with a pinch of common sense in their heads a clear warning of what the place is really like...

...but what do I know, after all I am just a comedian.... CHECK!

[mupepe]

Hi steve coe
thought you were getting call to join emirates ! what's your last decision then and what changed your mind !
need to know because I've an interview next two months and hardly looking for positive inputs for joining them !!
I'm currently capt in small jet a/c in EU and got offered a position as F/O?!? on A330 or B777....and my decision not fixed yet :confused: :confused:
thank you for all replies !

[windshear..not again]

Check your private messages.

[typhoonpilot]

EMIRATES IS BUYING AEROPLANES BUT WILL START RETIRING ITS AIRBUS 330 LATER THIS YEAR. DO YOUR SUMS, YOU MAY BE WAITING A LONG TIME FOR YOUR COMMAND INTERVIEW.

AMERICAN PILOTS BEWARE- YOU ARE NOT LIKED BY THOSE IN MANAGEMENT POSITIONS, PARTICULARELY THE 'LOCALS'. WHEN YOU TIME COMES FOR COMMAND UPGRADE, THEY CAN FAIL YOU AT INTERVIEW, PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION AND THEN THEIR VARIOUS 'TRAINING' STAGES.

CALL THIS THREAD WHAT YOU WANT BUT MY CUP OF EMIRATES AND DUBAI HAS 'BRIMMITH OVER' WITH THEIR HYPOCRISY.


The first part is good advice.

The second part is hogwash. EK have just hired two Americans into senior management positions. One is the new VP Fleet and another is the new CBC manager. They also have a couple of senior VPs that are American.

The locals in the training department treat Americans fine, no different than they treat any other nationality. Peddle your paranoia elsewhere.


TP

[dxbpilot]

Well its obvious that 1pilot12345 doesn't have much experience living in a arab country . Of course there is going to be advantages to the locals, thats the way it works, and with the amount of forgeiners that live in the UAE its not surprising at all. I think there one country who acually knows how to look after there own people instead of handing out passports like sweets as some countrys do in the name of political correctness ie canada, australia.

But don't forget that advantages that westerners enjoy living the expat lifestyle in dubai.

I know plenty of the arab emirates crew that are great guys and don't discriminate at all, if anything you can have a laugh with them over the sterotypical arab and the wasta that some use.

Yes I agree that emirates crews are not looked after as well as they used to be.

At the end of the day the system is what it is , you just have to play the game or go home and pay tax !!

[etops777]

The first part is good advice.
The second part is hogwash. EK have just hired two Americans into senior management positions. One is the new VP Fleet and another is the new CBC manager. They also have a couple of senior VPs that are American.
The locals in the training department treat Americans fine, no different than they treat any other nationality. Peddle your paranoia elsewhere.
TP

TP,

One thing we have to remember is this is Middle East not US or Europe. Regardless of whom(nationality) we have in managements, I'll bet things will not change. So, the best approach is to accept the reality and hope for the best.

E777

[montensee]

FINALLY.....High time we get some Yankes in here....show Emirates how to run an airline and how the airline should treat it's employees. Clean house.

Yanks.... running an airline.....

Yeah, thats just what EK need.

[145qrh]

Cant wait...Ek could,inshallah, be the next Pan-Am,or, praise be upon him, the next USAir,Delta, American,Republic,Northwest.....These guys are good,cant wait to be freedomised by the yanks...

[Kpt40]

readytocopy FINALLY.....High time we get some Yankes in here....show Emirates how to run an airline and how the airline should treat it's employees. Clean house.
- Right, so now EK will loose money, gut out the retirement fund, call the 330 an RJ, and develop a low cost alter ego airline...name it RAT or Emirates Light, or better yet Emirates Express. Get ALPA in house to pass out ice cold Kool-Aid and you are golden. :)

[montensee]

EK is primarily in the business of taking people from Europe to Asia and Oz and back. Anybody stopping in DXB is seen as a bonus.

Branson taking on the DXB route will be seen by the Dubai rulers as a major result, not as competion with EK.

Virgin will bring in new tourist traffic, people who otherwise would have gone to the States or elsewhere. Essentially it's a free advertisment for Dubai.

The take on the 'keep discovering etc' catchprase is promoting EK and DXB just as much as Virgin.

In fact there are no losers, its 'win win' for all.

Except for the EK employees who will continue to be stuffed around left, right and centre by a short sighted middle and upper management team.

Up 'til now it's only been the crews voting with their feet, rather than the pax. Without a biiiiig pay rise in May this will become a crisis. (As well as a need to address the other issues such as DECs, upgrades etc).

A few years ago I heard from someone in management that the big plan was for EK to become an iconic brand such as Nike, Coca Cola or the like. An airline that people would aspire to travel with.

Not going to happen until the staff are proud to work for EK again.

[BigGeordie]

The Virgin flight will be a virtual charter for Virgin Holidays, just like the Florida routes. That is good for Dubai as it will bring in British tourists who may not have thought to travel with Emirates Holidays. Emirates has 93 flights a week to the UK, to 5 airports, and most of the pax are connecting through to Aisa/Oz so I don't think they will be too worried about Virgin yet.

[fatigueflyer]

Hey dxbpilot,

What makes you think that expats would want to apply for a DXB passport? Look at the mess this place is in all in the name of progress. Builders, roadworks personnel, maids, shop staff etc are treated like animals. This place is built on slave labour (look at the working conditions). Prior to coming here I had never heard the term "labour camp" used in this day and age. We read about animal rights issues around the world but we are facing real human rights issues in DXB. Doesn't take long to understand how this place works. Dangerous driving conditions because some believe they are above the law, lack of police with enough authority to stand up to the arrogant types, lenient sentences for a specific few and a million other failures of this place makes it just like the wild west. Lived both East and West of here and to hear comparisons made is ridiculous. DXB is nowhere near the class of London, Melbourne or Hong Kong.

[GoForIt]

My apologies for slagging the yanks, but i just flew with a young chap from the good ole USA and i wanted to throttle him by the end of 3 days. Talk about attitude, coupled with a general lack of flying abilities.......... I"m starting to wonder if the majority of that country is as dimwitted and ignorant as my last colleague.
Yes, every last one of us is dimwitted and ignorant. There isn't a one of us who can fly an airplane with any reasonable level of competence. How one of our ancestors ever invented the thing is beyond comprehension. For that matter, it is mystery as to why we aren't a third world country! Maybe just a stroke of luck!
GoForIt

[Start4&3]

Yes, every last one of us is dimwitted and ignorant. There isn't a one of us who can fly an airplane with any reasonable level of competence. How one of our ancestors ever invented the thing is beyond comprehension. For that matter, it is mystery as to why we aren't a third world country! Maybe just a stroke of luck!
GoForIt

I agree.
I have a suggestion for all you people that hates how the yanks do things. Why don't you use your own satellites.

[EGGW]

Actually mate, we have just started putting the new Gallileo system of GPS satellites in orbit http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4486187.stm
So thanks for letting us use yours, and if you are nice to us we might do the same. :}


EGGW

[davidletterman]

Hey mensaboy... you are the man, man!!!

In some languages the word "mensa" actually means "intellectually challenged", and I am not kidding this time..... ha ha ha ha, good job man!

And yes, you can take off the shower cap now...

[4HolerPoler]

Careful now ladies; some serious thread creep developing. Please don't allow this to develop into a Yank/Rest-of-the-world slanging match. Keep it nice please.

4HP

[SecurID]

Oh come on 4HP, they do ask for it... ;)

[Kawasaki787]

MANAGEMENT HAVE LOST THE PICTURE REGARDING,

1 - ROSTER MANAGEMENT; IT´S PURE CRISIS MANIA: THEY CAN'T CREW FLIGHTS: PILOTS ARE FATIGUED AS THEY ARE FLYING TO THE MAXIMUM OF 900 HRS THROUGH MANY TIME ZONES: ONLY 8 OR 9 DAYS OFF A MONTH: SO HOW CAN ONE RECOVER OR SPEND TIME WITH THE FAMILY: THEY ARE BREAKING EVERY RULE IN THE BOOK: EXPECT; DEMAND AND FORCE CREWS TO OPERATE IN DISCRETION:

2- ALL MANAGMENT GUYS ARE YES MEN: PERIOD: SO THE TOP TEAM ARE NOT GIVEN THE TRUE PICTURE: PROMISES ARE ALWAYS BROKEN:

3- DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAINS ARE ON HIGHER PAY SCALES: IF YOU CMPLAIN; YOU ARE TOLD TO BITE THE BULLET OR LEAVE:

4- MANY ARE ROSTERED TO OPERATE IN OVERTIME; AS IT IS CHEAPER THAN HIRING OR PROMOTING: BUT THE OVERTIME RATES ARE NOT INDEX LINKED AND HAVENT CHANGED FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS: EXPECT A SALARY DROP AS DUBAI IS EXPENSIVE: WORK FOR FREE

CONSIDERING EMIRATES? KEEP SOME QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES IN MIND. IF ON THE BOEING, YOUR CHIEF PILOT HAS OPENLY STATED THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE FOREIGNER (FOREIGNER MEANS NON ARAB). HE REFERS TO ARAB PILOTS AS 'ONE OF US'. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH AN ARAB PILOT AND HOW YOU CAN EXPECT TO BE JUDGED. IT WILL GET WORSE AS LEROY WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE TO LEAVE AND HE IS THE LAST DECENT MANAGER THERE. SOME OF THOSE WHO PICKED THE WRONG PEOPLE TO ARGUE WITH HAVE BEEN GROUNDED AND SENT TO LONDON FOR PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION. THE ARABS THEY PICKED THE ARGUMENT WITH WAS ALLOWED TO KEEP FACE, AND THEY KNOW IT AND BEHAVE TO YOU WITH THIS ATTITUDE.

IF YOU LEAVE A JOB TO GO THERE THEN YOU SHOULD FAIL THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION. WHICH INCIDENTLY IS A TRIPPING STONE FOR AN INCREASING NUMBER OF GOOD BLOKES WHO ARE BEING TURNED DOWN FOR COMMANDS.

EMIRATES IS BUYING AEROPLANES BUT WILL START RETIRING ITS AIRBUS 330 LATER THIS YEAR. DO YOUR SUMS, YOU MAY BE WAITING A LONG TIME FOR YOUR COMMAND INTERVIEW.

AMERICAN PILOTS BEWARE- YOU ARE NOT LIKED BY THOSE IN MANAGEMENT POSITIONS, PARTICULARELY THE 'LOCALS'. WHEN YOU TIME COMES FOR COMMAND UPGRADE, THEY CAN FAIL YOU AT INTERVIEW, PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION AND THEN THEIR VARIOUS 'TRAINING' STAGES.

CALL THIS THREAD WHAT YOU WANT BUT MY CUP OF EMIRATES AND DUBAI HAS 'BRIMMITH OVER' WITH THEIR HYPOCRISY.

[Mack Tuck]

Dont be a nancy boy mensa; you said it you meant it and you werent far off the mark; Im sure weve flown with the same bloke and you were spot on. You only need to do JFK a few times to learn most of the rest of them dont even know where Dubai is and the ones that come are only temps here and their attitude proves it.

[critical winge]

http://www.7days.ae/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
DUE! Respect and praise for 7 days web site posting this. Click on the traffic cones midway down on RHS to see the video of the new bump on the Beach road, awesome skills of driving excellence. THIS IS NORMAL DRIVING AT ANY TIME OF DAY ON ANY ROAD IN DUBAI. See the headlines, the roads are worse than a warzone for casualties. Welcome to the ME!! :uhoh:

[Mack Tuck]

Get used to this type of driving and if you have a half way decent vehicle expect to be hassled, raced and cut-in-front-of by losers in little ****boxes. Happened today on Al Wasl; rang the cops and they didnt give a rats arse. Youre on your own unless you wear a dish dash; good luck.

[typhoonpilot]

You guys are getting out of hand slagging off on the Yanks. EVERY nationality has their 10%, just like every airline has their 10%. You can not judge every person of a particular nationality or of a particular airline by the words or actions of a single individual. Grow up !, I would have expected better from this group :mad: :yuk:

TP

[dxbpilot]

fatigueflyer,

That may well be correct that dubai isn't at the same standard as western countrys,(and i'm not saying this is the way it should be) but my point is that the locals look after the locals, plain and simple , anyone working in the UAE has to accept that plain and simple. It may not be right but that is the way it is.

on the other hand you have people living in a western counrty complaining about how politically correct everything is to a point where you can get busted for doing 2km/h over the speed limit.

but if the place is, as you say a "mess" why do people still flock to dubai to work ? to take advantage of a tax free system. and yes i agree the emirates crews have been getting the raw end of the stick and something is definatly going to have to change or the airline is going to go down the drain.

I'm just saying that they look after their own. It might be nice to have some of that in the western world instead of inviting every man and his dog to come and enjoy the benefits everyone else has worked for.

i guess you either have to accept it or go home...

[ernestkgann]

dxb pilot we understand that you grew up in dxb and now want to go back and that you know the system here. You may not like speed limits in Australia, but generally speaking it's probably better to have an enforced limit than none at all.
I think you are well qualified to give advice to school kids growing up in Dubai, given your experience, but I would limit the sage advice on aviation to the people that actually aviate there and those that work for EK. Believe it or not most people who've lived here for more than a year or so do understand that it is the local's train set.

[dxbpilot]

I guess you have to weigh up the good and the bad and then make a choice, and yes the driving in the UAE / GCC is a nightmare. and yes the locals have the upper hand (which isn't right) but don't pretend that its going to change anytime soon, if you come to dubai to work you have to accept those facts.

and thank you ernestkgann for the advice

[BaghDaddy.]

1. my point is that the locals look after the locals


2. take advantage of a tax free system


3. I'm just saying that they look after their own. It might be nice to have some of that in the western world 1. That is true. A good system.... for them.

2. Do you mean an income tax-free system? This place sure ain't tax-free. Booze is taxed, municipal tax, service charges, rumoured (?) VAT, and of course "lifestyle" tax.... :ok:

Did I miss any?

3, Yes it might be nice but that is called racism and nationalism. Here it is called a sound business practice.

[dxbpilot]

I completley agree with you BaghDaddy and yes income tax / luxury car tax etc was what i was refering to, and come on everyone knows about the whole in the wall ....

[Zomp]

I always here tax free!!! most of the things here are more expensive than in europe or us, instead of tax the profit margins are much higher put at the end you pay more.
here in dubai the don't increase prices by 5% they increase by 100%, have many examples.
the famous provident fund, after 7 years I have 80 us in the fund, how long will that last you when you retire? don't think you work here for 15-20 years and think you can have a nice retirement. if you join as an F/O you will use your savings till you become captain and that will take a while now.

[Snake man]

I'm a first time contributor to the forum, partly through fear of retribution and partly because I believe it seldom makes any difference, but this particular issue lies close to my heart.
Asking anyone at EK whether it's a good idea to join or not, is like asking someone who's just bought a cheap car whether its a good car or not. The honest side of human nature will force him to tell you that its a little slow and that it rattles, the proud side of that same nature will tell you that its got really great fuel economy.
Eliminate the possibility to hide truth behind pride and ask :"If you could turn the clock back, would you buy the same car? If you could turn the clock back, would you make the same decision to join EK?".
I can honestly say that in 8 1/2 years of asking this question, I've yet to find anyone who's been here for more than a year who doesn't wish he hadn't come.
The reasons are all listed on the forum, and they vary from person to person, but to quote a great song by Paul Simon:
"I don't know a soul that's not been battered,
I don't have a friend who feels at ease,
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered,
or driven to its knees."
Ask the right people only one question....."Would you do it again?"
SM.

[topoftheloop]

Snake man
Thanks for your honest opinion. And I must say, right so.
With your cheap labour, Ek and the other ME carriers compete
against mainly European airlines, which have no "tax free" environment.
You work until you fall asleep, and you give away your off days....
for what ? To give the most important time in your life to a bunch
of multi billionaires, who care a s**t about you ?
Get real guys, forget your selfmade image about EK and look into the mirror !

[critical winge]

Snake, with quotes like that you can alwys post here. Is the grass always greener, it may seem so, but in this field there is one hell of a lot of manure spread over it. Be careful, paying tax at home is better than paying tax abroad and getting racist treatment, as well as the war zone roads, the .......you get the picture.

[readytocopy]

ok guys, when I said finally we got a yank in here....I did not mean for you guys to batter the man. I didnt mean for him to run EK into the ground like all the airlines in the states that have gone into bankruptcy protection...etc etc...I should clarify....perhaps having someone from somewhere else other than the usual nationalities we have upstairs would bring perhaps a different approach in dealing with employees....thats all.

[Twinpacks]

Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:43 PM ET


CHICAGO, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Pilots at Mesaba Aviation, a unit of MAIR Holdings Inc., have authorized union leaders to call a strike should a bankruptcy court let the airline impose unacceptable contract terms, the workers' union said on Monday.


The Air Line Pilots Association said 98 percent of the pilots who voted approved the strike authorization.


Mesaba, which filed for Chapter 11 in October, has been squeezed by the bankruptcy of its larger partner, Northwest Airlines Corp.


The company said it must reduce its expenses by $66.4 million annually, including $17.1 million in labor costs, to emerge from bankruptcy. Mesaba has asked for court permission to terminate the pilots' labor deals.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this new Yank manager from Mesaba? Oh yeah, he'll really improve things for us!!!