Business Coursework help - A380

[Future Flyer]

Hiya,

For my GCSE business coursework, I have decided to do an investigation into the current “battle of the skys” between the A380 and 7E7. The aim of the investigation is to decide which will be the winner in the end, or if there will indeed be a winner as such. I know there are long Airbus v Boeing threads, but I was wondering if anyone could help me by giving a concise factual answer as to what are the main advantages/disadvantages of the Airbus and Boeing from both an economic and operational point of view. It would be helpful to know details from the perspective of passengers and airlines.

Many thanks.

[TwinAisle]

It all really boils down to the thought that they are not competing products.

Boeing believe that the industry will evolve toward a more "point to point" model, requiring an aircraft like the 787 to connect more secondary airports. Airbus believe that the future is hubs, and the airlines will need large aircraft (ie, 380) to connect the hubs. The truth is likely to be between the two positions - there will always be a demand for p2p, and there are many city pairs that are crying out for more capacity, but since they have limited slots, they will need larger aircraft.

Who will win? I reckon they both will to be honest. The really interesting fight is not 380 v 787, but 787 v 350, and 747-8 v 380. My guess is that the only loser will be the 747-8; the 787 and 350 can happily co-exist (cf, 320 and 737). The dear old 747 is getting a bit long in the tooth, and Boeing have found it very tough to sell any pax variants since 380 was formally launched.

All great products - but horses for courses and a lot will depend on the overall shape of the industry rather than the merits of any one type.

[chornedsnorkack]

Point-to-point small capacity and large capacity are not purely complementary. They do compete.

In 1960-s, longhaul routes were served by narrowbody quadjets - Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8. With under 200 seats, except the most stretched DC-8.

In 1970-s, widebodies appeared - Boeing 747, DC-10, Tristar. With in the order of 300-400 seats.

The outcome? Boeing 707 and DC-8 could have served long and thin routes, giving more frequencies and destinations where it was hard to fill Boeing 747.

Instead, the longhaul narrowbodies went out of production. Boeing 757 was somewhat designed to replace them - with large wing, MTOW and range, but still smaller than Boeing 707. And it recently went out of production, too - could not compete with widebodies.

On the other hand, Tristars, DC-10 and even Boeing 747 commonly flew short domestic hops in USA in 1970-s. Boeing 737 and DC-9 were around, but a lot of lines had domestic widebodies.

By now, the domestic routes are dominated by Boeing 737 - offering more frequencies and more direct services. Tristar and DC-10 are out of production, and boeing 747 no longer flies domestic.

So, competition between different sizes can be real...

[TwinAisle]

Interesting post, chornedsnorkack - thanks.

I would suggest thought that whilst there may well be some blurring of the competition between the 380 and the 787, fundamentally they will live and die on how well they serve the markets they are designed for. I would agree with you, it is likely that we'll see 787 on hub-to-hub routes, ones that cannot support a larger aircraft; but the real target of the thing is going to be longer, thinner routes, and if it can't win in that market, it is dead.

380 will, I think, pretty much always be a hub-to-hub beast. I can't really see one on, say, Manchester-New York anytime soon.

Just a thought - I would say that the 757 was killed off less by the widebodies, and more by the fact that Boeing in their wisdom grew the 737 into its market space... why buy a 757 when a 737-800 can do the same sort of job, and means you can keep your fleet simpler?

[chornedsnorkack]

Just a thought - I would say that the 757 was killed off less by the widebodies, and more by the fact that Boeing in their wisdom grew the 737 into its market space... why buy a 757 when a 737-800 can do the same sort of job, and means you can keep your fleet simpler?
The range of 737-800 high gross weight is about 5400 km with 162 passengers.
Boeing 757-200, again its high takeoff weight version, can cover 7200 km.
Boeing 707-320B with max fuel and 147 passengers can cover 9200 km.
DC-8-62 could cover 9600 km with max payload.

Surely, there could be more consistent and precise details. But as can be seen, Boeing 757 can fly missions that are simply out of range for 737.

However, 757, 707 and DC-8 are for some reason unable to compete with widebodies on long and thin routes...

[TwinAisle]

Very true, at the extreme cases of range and capacity, the 757 can outperform the 737. But experience shows that airlines don't always operate their aircraft that way. I lost track of the times that I flew on a 757 from London to Brussels, Edinburgh and Amsterdam, for example. On the European routes, that was a two class cabin as well, so no where near maximum capacity, and I would bet a 737 could have done the job just as well.

Boeing 757 can fly missions that are simply out of range for 737.


Indeed. But how often do they?

[chornedsnorkack]

Very true, at the extreme cases of range and capacity, the 757 can outperform the 737. But experience shows that airlines don't always operate their aircraft that way. I lost track of the times that I flew on a 757 from London to Brussels, Edinburgh and Amsterdam, for example. On the European routes, that was a two class cabin as well, so no where near maximum capacity, and I would bet a 737 could have done the job just as well.

Indeed... but it seems B757 is used on the short routes because of widebody competition.

Eos now flies a 757 between Stansted and New York, with light payload of 48 first class beds. Airlines might perhaps fly 757 on thin and long routes... something like London - montreal, London-Boston, JFK-Manchester etc. etc. But apparently they don´t because they prefer either to use a widebody, at least 767, or not fly the route or frequency at all.

So, on long and thin routes which are out of range for 737, 757 competes with widebodies. On shorter routes, 757 carries the extra weight of large wing, engines etc. required to support the extra range.