CPL/ATPL Easy.

[MBA747]

How is it that CASA are making the above exams easier. There was a time you had to know the subjects to pass. These days with the way multi choice questions are set, a half educated person can guess his way to passing subjects.
When you have 19 year old theory instructors who may have passed year 12, instructing on flight theory how low can it go? These young kids are even teaching at schools. What happened to having a Dip.Ed to teach academic subjects at our educational facilities?
Doesen't CASA know nearly all the questions in their data base are known by the various schools. Consequently schools don't need to teach the subject, just the question & appropriate answer.
Untill academic & theory levels are raised, there will always be those who see aviation as an easy in without knowing the hardship & despair that follows.
It's this low level entry that leads to a glut of dreamers, leading to an oversupply of pilots and the inevitable poor working conditions.

[rmcdonal]

Which inturn leads to 19YO instructors teaching theory... I can see a loop coming on. :hmm:

[Lodown]

I'm one person in favour of the multi-choice exams, provided they are accompanied by an appropriate shifting of responsibility to the flight exam.

My reasoning is that the theory behind flying an aircraft is not rocket science. There's only so much that can be asked about the theory before the questions become ridiculous and focussed away from the intent of checking knowledge to checking literary and grammatical standards. Some months ago, I thought I was correct in arguing an answer to a CASA flight into weather question placed on Pprune. I was wrong, but it doesn't change many opinions that the question was vaguely worded. CASA written testing basically gets down to a question of how many times can you write a question in a different way to arrive at the same answer.

As for the ATPL subjects, they became regarded as a right of passage rather than a check on knowledge. The questions were just becoming crazy as the examiners discovered new ways to trip applicants up.

The focus IMHO should be in the cockpit and systems knowledge where the theory comes together into practice.

I can see the other side of the argument too in that it is encouraging rote learning, which is why additional responsibility should be placed on the cockpit test to ensure the applicant knows how to apply the knowledge and the implications of various complications in flight.

There's always going to be exceptions, but I feel confident that the multichoice questions are a better way to go. It's not dumbing down if the flight test examiners are more demanding in response.

[MBA747]

Virtually all the multi-choice questions/answers are known. This system is badly flawed in its current form. In the past guess work was taken out, because penalty marking was in vogue.

Multi-choice questions facilitate quicker results which suit most candidates, however learning the questions and answers just lower standards.

If CASA examiners are unable to think up a new data base of questions, perhaps they should use the funds they receive from examination fees to purchase questions from Oxford Air Training School or the London City University.

The ATPL Flight Planning exam is a case in point, How many airlines operate B727. It's about time CASA introduced an exam based on a current aircraft. ie A320,B737, A330, B767, B777. Why don't they introduce ETOPS, CPDLC, CAT111 ops just to name a few. I guess when the old guard leaves things may change.

[Chris Higgins]

This is long overdue. Unless we change the training culture in Australia we are doomed to the worst of the flying factories that were once in vogue in Florida.

One of the strangest things I witnessed in the early '90s was a student pilot who after landing on Runway 9L at Miami International, got out of his Cherokee and ran away! It turns out this kid got lost and thought he could just land any old place..and run!

I sat there waiting in the right seat of a Lear 24D and turned to my captain and he said, "Welcome to America, I'll take a pilot's licence and an order of fries to go with that." Of course we both laughed, but the results might not have been quite so funny.

[Arm out the window]

I was reading one of the CASR proposals a while back, Part 61 I think, which if I'm remembering right proposes that for flying instruction, including ground school, you'll need at least a Cert IV in workplace training provision, something along those lines.
So it seems they're looking to at least require some standard of training in theory instruction provision.

[HEALY]

The guy that ran from the plane........wasn't Ben Cousins was it?


To tempting

[4Greens]

It is useful in aviation to be able to write in understandable English. Multi guess questions can be answered without this skill.

[Seabreeze]

I agree: any test which does not require an explanation from the candidate leaves a significant amount of uncertainly about the candidate's real knowledge.
Indeed it is theoretically possible for a student who cannot write to pass many multiple choice question exams!
With the present CASA process there is also no need for a CPL or ATPL student to worry about thier own level of writing abilities.
The net result of our present system is thus a lower level of capability, professionalism and safety.

[Arm out the window]

Not to sound like too much of a devil's advocate here, but particularly with the CASA way of writing tricky questions with a couple of alternatives that sound almost the same, it seems unlikely that anyone with poor literacy could do well - you can't really separate reading and writing skills like that.

[MBA747]

Lodown Quote:
"There's always going to be exceptions, but I feel confident that the multichoice questions are a better way to go. It's not dumbing down if the flight test examiners are more demanding in response".

Multichoice might be acceptable if penalty marking was included which in turn would reduce the guessing game.The present system of redoing an exam after a week is farcical. It is promoting a lets have a go attitude and if one is unlucky enough to fail just do it again a week later. Which profession other than flying in Oz allows that?
Secondly, do you really think it's in the best interest of a Flight School or ATO
to have a reputation of being a tough examiner or a school with demanding standards. The students will just go else where & do their best to avoid that ATO.
A friend of mine did a Cert.IV in 5 days in Perth. This guy is a heavy jet C/T Capt. His comment " Its a joke". It cost him a few hundred. When the universities make the Dip.Ed. course a 5 day wonder. I will accept the Cert.IV as something usefull.

[Lodown]

...do you really think it's in the best interest of a Flight School or ATO to have a reputation of being a tough examiner or a school with demanding standards. The students will just go else where & do their best to avoid that ATO.

That probably happened irrespective of multi-choice questions. Relying upon written examinations as a finger in the dyke against this sounds like wishful thinking.
Several posters regard the written exams to be a check on English skills. You're wanting written exams to be a panacea to a range of issues. Aren't they supposed to be a check of aviation knowledge?
When it gets down to the bottom line, there are only so many ways a person can write a question to elicit the correct answer. Flight schools had most of the answers to the previous rounds of questions to get a student through the tests anyway, regardless of a range of issues, including English language skills. What's the difference now?
I can appreciate the pros and cons of both forms of examination. I just think the written format has been kept past its use by date.
Certainly, I imagine there are some areas of potential hazards in transferring more responsibility to ATO's, but by freeing up some resources in CASA implementing multichoice exams, hopefully they can be redeployed on better monitoring of the flight line.
I am of the opinion that aviation training can be much better served by multichoice questions followed with a more responsible and in-depth flight check.

[novicef]

Why do you want CASA to change the exams? I left school after year 9 because I had to, but always wanted to fly. Anyway I passed most of the CPL subjects first time and I am soon to get my CPL. I went solo after 14 hours and I was told that was the average.

I have a great CFI and he constantly encourages me. I will overshoot the CPL minimum but should have it after 155 hours. There were parts of the theory course that were not easy but there were others on the course who had similar problems. At the end of the day we all passed, flying is not rocket science. It was easier than what I thought it would be.

[rmcdonal]

Some of the exams have become impractical. ATPL Flight Planning :yuk: for instance has so many variables it has become a guessing game. After completing a flight plan that takes you up to half an hour to determine were your in-flight Depressurized PNR is you realize you would have already passed that point 15 minutes before coming up with an answer. And the wiz wheel is such a precise instrument (I hate to sound pedantic but a ½ mil can actually makes up to a 100kg difference per line in Flight planning).
When did these exams stop being about testing pilots knowledge and skill, and start being just about tripping up people on there ability to understand a poorly asked question?
Novicef: anyone can pass these exams if they study, (well admit have used most things in CPL exams except the ECHO and 1 in 60s). They don't require a Y12 base level of knowledge. Good luck with the rest of your flying :ok: .