Laser beams directed at planes [Archive]

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Pass-A-Frozo

23rd Feb 2006, 13:16

Laser beams directed at planes
From: AAP (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18251954-2,00.html)
February 23, 2006
PEOPLE pointing lasers at aircraft when they are trying to land are creating an unnecessary risk at the most critical time of a flight, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) said today.

Anyone caught doing it would face severe penalties, CASA said.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said in the past year pilots had reported more than a dozen incidents where industrial strength lasers had been directed at the cockpits of planes as they were about to land.

The incidents included two in Melbourne, two in Sydney, three in Maroochydore and several others at regional airports.

"We've got no evidence to suggest it's anything more than people, for some unknown reason, thinking it's a fun thing to do to use industrial strength lasers to point at planes when they're trying to land," he said.

The practice created a distraction for busy pilots on landing.

"It is a distraction. It is an added risk which we don't need to have.
"Therefore we take a very dim view of it.

"If anybody is ever caught they can expect to be treated harshly."

Mr Gibson said there was a patch of incidents at Maroochydore airport in Queensland.

"It was done at a certain time from a certain area and police are really narrowing it down to a particular block of flats," he said.

"Clearly, somebody in Maroochydore was doing it in quite a planned way."

He said there had been incidents in the United States where people had been caught and jailed over similar actions

TurboOtter

23rd Feb 2006, 19:28

Sounds like a stupid thing to do! If they catch those people the should be chemically castrated to stop them infecting the world.
A couple of questions, no guessing please. What law or reg are they breaking.
I have been looking for a law of reg that says it is illegal to jeopardise the safety of an aircraft, which I am sure it is.

Sunfish

23rd Feb 2006, 20:08

This statement about green lasers was on the TV news last night. I wish it wasn't because it will encourage copycats.

planemad_bk

23rd Feb 2006, 21:02

Chilli Tarts

24th Feb 2006, 06:26

Around mid last year I was on decent into Sydney from the north (had just passed Newcastle around F160) and I had the cockpit fill up with an intense green light beam, which I quickly identified as a ground based light source. Reported it immediately to ATC but received a VERY casual acknowledgement with no further information requested. Report filed.:suspect:

griffinblack

24th Feb 2006, 07:14

The problem with the green lasers is that they are generally more powerful than the red. They are often 20-50mW, class 3 lasers - that is bad. Red lasers are generally only 1 mW and are class 1 - that is ok except you never actually know.

Anyone one directs a laser at you can be considered to be engaging you - not in the marital sense.

I don't know what the regs say - but unlawful interference, assault or some such seems appropriate.

Biggles_in_Oz

24th Feb 2006, 09:43

At least with the red and green ones you know that it's probably some braindead twit having a play with you.

It's the invisible infra-red and ultraviolet lasers that would be a bigger problem.

Hmm., Maybe there's a niche market for the industrial PPE people to produce a set of stylish safety glasses that keep out the nasty laser stuff at night.

Postscript. There already is quite a range of PPE laser safety glasses (stylish and expensive), but as GriffinBlack says in next post, they tend to be specific to particular wavelengths.
So whilst you can get specs that'll attentuate the IR and UV they'll then let in all the visible stuff., and if you attenuate some of the visible wavelengths you end-up with coloured lenses that'll affect in-cockpit colour perception.

griffinblack

24th Feb 2006, 22:21

The problem with getting safety glasses is that it is wavelength specific. In other words you need to decide on what type of laser you wish to protect yourself from.

The non visable lasers are also harder to get - they tend to have commercial uses. The liklihood of an idiot getting a non visable laser and deciding to dazzle passing acft is pretty low.

Milt

24th Feb 2006, 22:54

griffinblack

How do you know you are being hit with a non-visible laser?

Does anyone know the threshhold power/range to temporary or permanent eye injury?

Some serious countermeasures please.

griffinblack

25th Feb 2006, 03:51

Milt,

Without getting too technical, it’s not as simple as providing a range versus power formula to determine if a laser is “eye safe”. The boffins call it Nominal Occular Hazard Distance (NOHD). That’s because you have a bunch of other variable such as beam divergence, atmospheric conditions etc.

How do you know if you are getting dazzled with a non visible laser? We are told that you “see” just that – a dazzle. A non visible laser damages your optic nerve or may indeed boil your vitreous fluid – amongst other nasty things. This generally creates some sort of visible sensation – a dazzle. You will/may suffer vision problem after the fact – in other words not necessarily instantaneous problems but vision problems a little while latter – spots, dazzle, headaches, blindness.

I hope I didn’t sound like a university professor.

DeltaSix

25th Feb 2006, 03:58

Sounds like the work of terrorists to me. Maybe they have found a new way of crashing airplanes. Next thing you know, they might fire a laser guided missile on the aircraft using this laser beam as guidance. Just wondering if maybe they should report this to AFP.

D6

P|_azbot

25th Feb 2006, 04:08

wing surfer

25th Feb 2006, 23:42

maybe the solution here its to charge the people that do this with attempted murder on the number of people on board the Aircraft.

Milt

26th Feb 2006, 01:29

If you catch anyone lasering me on short final please take care how you dispose of the perpetrator's body.

DeltaSix

26th Feb 2006, 02:38

Milt, dispose of the body ?.... let them rot for the maggots.

These people have no conscience.

Shitsu_Tonka

26th Feb 2006, 02:58

just curious - what do you expect the Air Traffic Controller to do or say?

Richard Spandit

26th Feb 2006, 04:19

Having been hit by a stray laser beam whilst driving (I believe it was from a nightclub in Stuttgart), it's a pretty violent and frightening sensation - like being smacked hard in the face. Wouldn't like it to happen whilst flying, although I think we were hit by one going into PMI - another nightclub display...

P|_azbot

26th Feb 2006, 06:19

I had some half wit bouncer shine one in my eye at a pub once trying to get my attention from across the room (no I was not mucking up).

podbreak

26th Feb 2006, 06:57

Yeah lasers aren't the only problem now, theres donkeys at a few counrty strips who like directing high powered torches at you on short final at night... there really are some brainless people out there...

Pass-A-Frozo

26th Feb 2006, 07:00

I've been doing night circuits out at a dirt strip and had a roo shooter spot us with his high powered light. I made mention of it and the other pilot said
"I don't mind too much.. so long as the rifle isn't pointed where the light is!" :}

flyby_kiwi

27th Feb 2006, 01:06

I seem to recall seeing exactly this happen on CSI the other night. Hmmmmm :hmm:

whiteknuckleairlines

27th Feb 2006, 07:16

If it was in NZ the offence would be "Endangering Transport" which has a maximum term of imprisonment of 5 years (could be 10) from memory.

Numerous charges could be laid....criminal nuisance, interferring with an a/c etc.

It has been happening for many years now and near on impossible to catch the offenders.....

Whizzwheel

22nd Mar 2006, 01:01

Heard a story that a farmer near Oakey was shining his spotlight at choppers doing NVG training at low level. Apparently did it one too many times and got himself nabbed by Messers Plod. Received a rather harsh spanking, from what I hear.:ok:

Critical Reynolds No

22nd Mar 2006, 01:35

Same thing happened in Melbourne last night and even made the ATIS. Hope they catch the :yuk:

Pass-A-Frozo

22nd Mar 2006, 08:57

bugger.. I'd bet on a teenager who doesn't really understand the danger in what he is doing. A bit like kids throwing rocks at each other.. It's all fun and games until someone actually gets hit.

VH-Cheer Up

22nd Mar 2006, 09:05

Suggest put an advertisement on during The Simpsons advising all civil aircraft have now been fitted with laser-seeking guided devices which will fly back down the beam and cover the holder and 10 metres around them with the entire contents of the lavatory tank. Some nice CG rendered visuals for added persuasiveness, should slow them down a bit.

After that, if you can catch 'em, you should be allowed to kill 'em. :cool:

VHCU

Big Dog 2

23rd Mar 2006, 13:05

I had this happen to me on the way into ML 21/3
This was no kids toy,and was quite deliberate
and the strengt was unbelivable.
After landing I felt affected by this and had an eye test
the next day.Which proved to be OK. To stop them pointing it at me I turned off all my extirior lights making it more difficult to target us.
They imediatly turned off their light.
So far Police, ATC, DOTARS, Mel Airport,Police Air wing involved
And hope we can see an end to this dangerious
activity.As far as what ATC could have done.
First take this seriously and assist in helping the crew in an
unusual situation.And warn other a/c of the posible danger,
And help the crew pinpoint the location
so a search can be carried out.

But I recomend that in no way do you look at this Light/Lazer

Sunfish

23rd Mar 2006, 20:42

Which runway? Where was the light coming from (obviously the ground)?

Guppy Driver

23rd Mar 2006, 22:17

Perhaps it is time to have a read of the link below, before we all get too excited?

http://www.equipped.com/lasers_airliners.htm

I know that when I was 11 or 12 and camping out overnight in the treehouse, a toy like a handheld green laser and a movable overhead target like an aircraft on short finals just could have proved a pretty irresistible combination.

This seems to be more of a nuisance than a real threat (that is, until our "allies in the war on terror" get their Star Wars 747 doo-dah to work).

Sunfish

24th Mar 2006, 02:33

Mr. Guppy, I suggest you try it sometime and then tell us the results.

Guppy Driver

24th Mar 2006, 05:42

Ahem, was merely pointing out that i could have been tempted to try something like this - 3 decades or so ago.;)

bounceandblow

26th Mar 2006, 21:24

Nice article. :hmm:

Before being partially and temporarily blinded on approach to Sydney, I would have believed that pile of cr:mad: p.

All the testing and experimenting in the world will never be at the mercy of a real experience. Until someone can prove that I wasn't infact blinded, I will take the stand that anyone caught doing these irresponsible acts (regardless of age) should be dealt with in an inappropiate manner.
Then has the nerve to go on about "both" pilots being stupid enough to look!
BOTH!? you mean all aircraft have two pilots?..........
and STUPID!? Bright shiny falshy things at night generally get my attention.
(Oh look theres a laser lets look at it)
...........(end rant)

And yes I too was met with very nonchalant response from ATC, but then again would I have expected them to resonably calm. Especially as the thought went through my head that maybe (just maybe) I should be looking for a launch.
Calm and nonchalant is sometimes good.

Utradar

23rd May 2006, 12:49

Newcastle has just had it's turn with lasers being pointed at aircraft. Was climbing out of Williamtown tonight and had this green light flashing about the cockpit.
Was seen just south of Newcastle. ATC said they'd investigate and I got a call from the counter terrorism team a few hours later. It'd be pretty hard to track down an industrial laser I would think. Tis not a nice feeling being tracked by a laser!:eek:

Ultralights

24th May 2006, 07:31

working at Williamtown, its the first i have heard of the laser incident,

just a thought, if the laser incidents go reported but not leaked to the press, the lack of any response in the news or media will result in the culprit(s) getting bored and giving up on pointing lasers at aircraft?

though it would be interesting to see what would happen if one wwas pointed at an armed Hornet heading for the range with a laser guided weapon? would the aircraft detect a threat and respond as its designed??

rmcdonal

24th May 2006, 07:59

though it would be interesting to see what would happen if one wwas pointed at an armed Hornet heading for the range with a laser guided weapon? would the aircraft detect a threat and respond as its designed??
That reminds me of the story about the low flying fighter that got picked up by a police radar and locked on to it as a target :eek: :E .

Dick N. Cider

24th May 2006, 09:16

bounceandblow,

Lest there be any doubt, we're (the ATC fraternity) supposed to remain cool and calm when sh!ts are trumps. Not sounding panicky is what we're supposed to do (Instill calm and confidence the instructions say).

That cool voice could be scared sh EEE witless or extremely worried on your behalf.

DNC