BA new Club World Product.

[Patrick Bateman]

I understand that British Airways are going to start replacing their existing Club World with a totally new product (presumably still called Club World).
I understand that the upgrade will start quite shortly (i.e this year) and that it will include a new design of seat.
I really like BA's current Club World cabin, and although the seats are not ideal ( I find them a little too short and a bit on the narrow side for sleeping) they are generally very nice. It is great being able to face your travelling companion, assuming that you know them of course.
The current IFT (in my opinion) is pretty poor compared to some airlines (even compared to some economy cabins), and I understand that this is to be upgraded (possibly throughout the entire aircraft).
Does anyone have any "real" information and better details on the new product, such as what it will consist of and roll-out dates?
Thanks :)

[wub]

British Airways will upgrade to Rockwell Collins' TES (total entertainment system) on its 57 B-747s, 25 B-777s and 14 B-767s with AVOD (audio/video on demand), daily digital news and audio jukebox capabilities.

The upgrade, which should be completed by December 2007.

The new New Club World seat is still a closely-guarded secret but will begin to be rolled-out across the fleet from March this year.

[Globaliser]

The new New Club World seat is still a closely-guarded secret but will begin to be rolled-out across the fleet from March this year.Quite a lot of crew have been getting to see the new product, as I understand it, but only after signing a strict confidentiality agreement. Those who have seen it seem to be pretty enthusiastic.

[manintheback]

Only thing I've heard is that you wont be able to fly backwards anymore with the elimination of the hurdle over the aisle seat from the window seat - which suggests a virgin style cabin layout. We shall see.

[Globaliser]

Only thing I've heard is that you wont be able to fly backwards anymore with the elimination of the hurdle over the aisle seat from the window seat - which suggests a virgin style cabin layout. We shall see.Oh, please no. I love the facing pairs - great for couples. Even if a CSD did once threaten to throw a bucket of cold water over us. :D

[apaddyinuk]

Iv heard the rumour alright that the seats are going to be in a herribone config similiar to VS. Im dreading the thought of not being able to look out the window without a very sore neck. I too think that the rear facing config is rather nice, a nightmare to work in mind you, my back is always ten times more painful after working in club with the current layout, crew almost need to be acrobats. That and im always forgetting the the poor person in by the window whenever the divider is drawn.Nothing personal, I promise!!!

[spanishflea]

Any word on the installtion of Connexion internet access, as thats pretty much the only area in which BA lags behind with its biz product? Is there still a 744 flying around with the trial version in or has that stopped now?

[apaddyinuk]

Hi Spanish Flea, unfortunately that trial has ended so we dont have any wireless onboard at present. Also Willie Walsh is on record somewhere as saying that he feels the likes of inflight wireless are standards for the next generation of longhaul aircraft such as the A380/787/747-8 etc. He does not see a sufficient business case for installing systems on the current fleet. Now, thats his opinion, make of that what you will! :}

[oncemorealoft]

I understand the seat will essentially be based on skeleton of the EOS seat which is built by BE Aerospace. BA are anxious to address the various issues with their current design and the fact that the VS seat is outperforming them so they are going for what is essentially an off-the-shelf design which will be cosmetically altered.

Look out for BA's PR machine spinning in to action to differentiate their 'new' seat from the EOS design!

[manintheback]

I hear that each new seat costs give or take a fiver - £10,000 (yep you read that right - ten thousand.)

[apaddyinuk]

I hear that each new seat costs give or take a fiver - £10,000 (yep you read that right - ten thousand.)

Yeah but when you think about it, this amount will be paid off after about 3 sectors!!!

[Pax Vobiscum]

Although 10 grand sounds rather eye-watering, you can easily spend a couple of grand on a domestic leather recliner with lots of electronics built in. Seating for an airliner is built (I sincerely hope :)) to a much higher standard.

On the other hand, BA are buying 1000-off ...

[Globaliser]

On the other hand, BA are buying 1000-off ...A bit more than that, even! On the assumption that the 744s are evenly divided between 38J and 70J, that's an average of 54J per aircraft.

So:-
744: 57 x 54 seats = 3078
777: 43 x 48 seats = 2064

That's not allowing for the 767s that have or are having longhaul J put in.

[Patrick Bateman]

Saw this today at:
http://www.travelbiz.com.au/articles/86/0c038986.asp

=

Mid-2006 launch for new-look BA business class
British Airways will introduce its new long-haul business class cabin - upgraded at a cost of GBP100 million ($241 million) - from mid 2006.
The airline said the new cabin would build on the success of its existing Club World flat bed, and would set new standards for the business traveller.
BA will revamp all aspects of the journey – both on the ground and in the air - and upgrade in-flight entertainment system across all classes.
Ceo Willie Walsh said: “This is the first major product investment British Airways has made in five years - in part because of the success of our strategy to reduce costs during recent years.
“Our new business class cabin will be, without doubt, the best in the air.”

16 November 2005

==============

However the same site also quotes from here:
http://www.travelbiz.com.au/articles/91/0c03de91.asp

=

At the same time, the airline will invest GBP200 million developing a new Club World seat, on-demand in-flight entertainment and upgrading its online presence.

10 March 2006

==============

Does anyone have any photos or more info?

[Globaliser]

Does anyone have any photos or more info?Next Generation Club World is being kept under pretty tight wraps at the moment. I believe that any staff who get to see it have to sign a secret squirrel agreement first, and nobody I know who claims to have seen it is prepared to say a single thing about it. Not even whether or not it maintains the forward-backward pairing arrangement.

[slim_slag]

They must have some high cost marketing outfit telling them to keep it a big secret and build up the suspense for some major PR gig where all the luvvies turn out and go 'oooooo' while the smoke machines are pumping and the lasers are beaming.

Then, on closer inspection, it will be a seat that goes flat and which they try to persuade you is called a bed, which is far less comfortable than the one you have at home, the TV is far less interesting than the stuff you have at home, the food and drink is FAR worse than what you have at home. This they will pitch at £3000 for a night (think what you could get in a hotel for that) - and it will get to your destination less than a second before the rabble behind you who spent £150 to get to the same place as equally jet lagged.

One just cannot wait to see it :)

[brockenspectre]

Oh pooh is the only comment I want to make - I do love my window seats in the current Club World config ... 2A and 2K in the 777 to TPA gets me three windows all to myself - is like being in a private room (albeit a narrow one). HOWEVER, I can imagine that a lot of folk who haven't secured themselves a comfy backward facing window seat have not been happy with the "dividers" that prevent them even seeing a window. On an overnight flight its not so bad I would imagine but on a day flight? not nice at all...

I pay personally for my Club World travel - for me it is all part/parcel of my vacation and I set money aside just for this luxury. I have to say that if BA is removing the joy of windows from all (a la Virgin) then I will definitely be holding off on booking my next Florida trip (I go twice a year) until I can see how good/bad the seating is ... if after 30yrs of flying with em (mostly at own expense occasionally at a company's) BA can't give me a window in Club then I will go to someone who can!! Oh and I love flying backwards .. it is so comfy!! :E :ok:

[Golden Ticket]

slimslag, you don't half have some flannel sometimes.

maybe all you say is true but to be honest if my bed at home wasn't more comfortable I'd be some kind of masochist. If I can't get a drink to my own liking at home then god help me. One thing my home can't do is get me to New York in 7 hrs ish, and neither will your hotel.

[slim_slag]

One thing my home can't do is get me to New York in 7 hrs ish, and neither will your hotel.Haven't you seen some of the deals? BA will get you to New York in 7hrs ish for less than £100 right now (ex taxes), in the back. Now that is impressive. I'm just wondering what the fuss is about about a seat :)

[bealine]

I'm just wondering what the fuss is about about a seat

Dunno either!!! However, I am just grateful that people (or in most cases, their employers) are still paying First and Club fares because it is only through them that you are able to enjoy your £150 seat down the back! It is also largely through them that Bealine and his pals still have a job, otherwise BA would have disappeared shortly after 09/11!!!

Having said that, and having travelled in both cabins, I have yet to feel jet-lagged when I get off the aircraft from a Club seat! I even flew LGW-IAH IAH-SFO in Business First (Continental) and drove 300 miles immediately afterwards without flagging! I doubt if my cramped seat in 35E (the one that normally has my name on it) would have left me feeling quite so fresh!

It's horses for courses - if you're paying for travel yourself and you've got a bit of time to adjust at the other end, fine - a £150 seat will do the job! If you have to go into meetings firing on all cylinders within a few hours of your arrival, Club /First seating is the preferred option for most - and thank God it is!!!

[manintheback]

Guess someones going to ask. Urban myth or not - story occasionally reprinted in the press by journalist with nought else to write.

Buy 3 economy tickets and take your own champagne and Foie Gras. So thats what - £450 quid return NewYork with 3 seats to lie across. Can it be done?

[PAXboy]

Yes. But you would not be allowed to drink the champagne!

No carrier allows you to open and consume your own alcohol but there was a thread here recently where a couple who take long haul always buy three Y seats for the two of them and have no difficulty.

[christep]

Yes. But you would not be allowed to drink the champagne!Really? Why not? Is that a BA rule? The normal rule is that the cabin crew must serve it to you, but I'm not aware that BA refuses to do so - certainly when the catering problems were on at LHR they were very happy for pax to bring their own champagne...

[Globaliser]

Buy 3 economy tickets and take your own champagne and Foie Gras. So thats what - £450 quid return NewYork with 3 seats to lie across. Can it be done?Actually, it's very difficult to get £150 incl tax tickets now. Probably more like £690 at the lowest BA price I've seen in the last year or so.

But even with 3 seats, you can't lie down flat. You need four seats (£920) to do that, and it's still not that comfortable.

[slim_slag]

Even so, £690 for three seats is pretty good and if there are two of you travelling that empty seat next to you makes all the difference and cuts the price down to £350, still good value. Do you get your tax back for the "person" who doesn't fly? Three seats next to each other can give you a good sleep if you aren't too tall, with pillows put in the lumpy bits where the seat belts stick out. You want to avoid bulkhead seats as the arms don't come up. They have blocked out the secret lay flat bed you used to find at the back of 747's.

If you fly 25000 miles a year transatlantic there is an airline which will block out the seat next to you unless it's needed, makes economy class quite bearable (and the pitch is a lot better too). You have to pay for the booze, but they never seem to catch those extra little minutures (sp) at x-ray :)

bealine, does a flat bed help with the jetlag? No doubt it gives you better sleep and that makes you more functional for the morning meeting, but even if you got beamed to New York by some Star Trek device your bodyclock would be out for a few days. It's the jet lag that kills me after transatlantic and the seat doesn't help me with that.

[bealine]

bealine, does a flat bed help with the jetlag? No doubt it gives you better sleep and that makes you more functional for the morning meeting, but even if you got beamed to New York by some Star Trek device your bodyclock would be out for a few days. It's the jet lag that kills me after transatlantic and the seat doesn't help me with that.

I can't honestly answer that one - it would, indeed, be interesting to undertake a study into the travel effects of both Club and Econony passengers.

Speaking only for myself, the Flat Bed matters not a jot to me, it is the comfort factor (Business First seats on Continental's metal do not lie flat) - if I have travelled in a Business Class seat I feel very little in the way of jet lag, in Economy (and even worse if it's a middle seat) I suffer dreadfully! (....even worse if it's BA because there seems to be a hard ridge on the edge of the seat which makes the backs of my thighs start aching after about 4 hours!!!) I have to stress, this is a personal thing - it would be interesting to see how different seating affects other people!

[PAXboy]

christep The rules, as I understand them, are: No carrier allows you to open and consume your own alcohol. therefore it is not a BA specific. I do not think that it is any kind of regulation but, rather, best practise. It is not allowed because the CC are supposed to monitor your consumption and stop serving you if you have too much.

OK. OK. 'supposed to' but they cannot monitor all that goes on and minitures are ... welll ... miniture := but opening champers would attract attention.

[slim_slag]

It's US federal law,

121.575 (a) No person may drink any alcoholic beverage aboard an aircraft unless the certificate holder operating the aircraft has served that beverage to him.

Of course, it goes on to say (b) No certificate holder may serve any alcoholic beverage to any person aboard any of its aircraft who--
(1) Appears to be intoxicated; and that appears to be flouted regularly, as does

(c) No certificate holder may allow any person to board any of its aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated.They actually tell you not to consume your own booze on some flights as part of the pre flight warm up routine. Obviously there are some very naughty people who object to paying $5 for a small bottle of vodka and sneak their own on board. Perish the thought :) (and no quoting part (d))

[Pax Vobiscum]

Would the cunning ploy of buying three tickets and getting an empty seat work in practice - has anyone actually tried it? My (admittedly very limited) understanding is that the airline could treat the third seat as a 'no show' and resell it :confused:

[PAXboy]

As I understand it (from an earlier thread) if you have bought the ticket and show up, check in and get the boarding card ... then the seat is yours. Whomesoever it was styated that they have sometimes been asked to give up their third seat (when buying three seats for two people) but upon production of the boarding cards - no problem.

[slim_slag]

A cheaper way of doing it if you are a couple (and it only works if the configuration is a 3-x-3) is to assign yourselves the aisle and window seat on the side, hoping nobody wants the middle seat between you and the checkin agent doesn't use it. If you get unlucky and somebody turns up to claim the middle seat you offer them the aisle or window, unless you never really wanted to spend 12 hours sat next to your missus in which case you stay put.

More importantly, if you buy three seats and only take two, who gets the miles? I bet it's the airline.

[Gonzo]

I agreee with Bealine: I've only ever sat in BA Club World once, on the back of an upgrade by the CSD (didn't ask for it, BTW!). On a flight to Seattle from Heathrow, I didn't go to sleep at all, but I'm sure I felt more awake and fresh at the end of the trip than I did when I got on the aircraft.

[christep]

christep The rules, as I understand them, are: No carrier allows you to open and consume your own alcohol. therefore it is not a BA specific. I know all that. That isn't the point I was making. The original comment was:
Yes. But you would not be allowed to drink the champagne!That is what is incorrect. There is no problem drinking your own champagne provided that the crew serves it to you (and my experience is that in most cases "serve" is taken to mean "open the bottle" rather than "refill the glass every time", in J at least).

[Pax Vobiscum]

if you have bought the ticket and show up, check in and get the boarding card ... then the seat is yours.
Hi PAXboy - I think I remember that thread. But what I wonder is: if the flight isn't full then (presumably) the airline are grateful for the sale of an extra ticket and you get the extra seat. But then (since the flight isn't full) there's a fair chance of getting an extra seat in any case.

On the other hand, if the flight is full, are the airline entitled to take the view that this is a no-show and they can resell the seat (and gain a bit more revenue)?

Julian Lloyd-Webber is rumoured always to purchase an extra seat so that his Stradivarius 'cello doesn't have to travel in the hold, so presumably this works for him!

[apaddyinuk]

Right, time to (hopefully) set wind to a few myths!!!
I have just flown with a colleague who has seen the new Club World seat mockup when last back in training!!!
I cant give too much away as it is company sensitive etc BUT I will say a few things, one is...
NO the seat is not to the same herribone config as VS, infact it is of the exact same layout as the current Club world cabin with the same rear facing seats. It is however a little longer and wider. There are other enhancements/improvements to the seat but wont go into it here.
There will be NO wifi unfortunately.
There is a change in colour scheme throughout the cabin.
Mood lighting is apparently to be introduced.
There will be some quirky "raid the larder" gizmos in the galley.
Yes they are FINALLY installing some decent IFE,
and last but not least...
There is no plan to have an eat when you want option!!!!

Hope that quells a few rumours!

[Crepello]

I hope, really hope that WiFi will appear in the final config, otherwise it could all be money down the pan.

Among others, LH and SQ are already rolling WiFi out and I suspect that once fleets are fully equipped, J-pax will pay a fare premium for carriers that provide it. And that's in addition to the on-board subscription charge.

[BahrainLad]

I hope, really hope that WiFi will appear in the final config, otherwise it could all be money down the pan.
Among others, LH and SQ are already rolling WiFi out and I suspect that once fleets are fully equipped, J-pax will pay a fare premium for carriers that provide it. And that's in addition to the on-board subscription charge.

And as soon as everyone starts using Skype or other VOIP doo-dahs to call their mates with inane "I'm on a plane" rubbish, then you'll quickly see people paying a premium to fly on non wi-fi equipped carriers!

[Final 3 Greens]

And as soon as everyone starts using Skype or other VOIP doo-dahs to call their mates with inane "I'm on a plane" rubbish, then you'll quickly see people paying a premium to fly on non wi-fi equipped carriers!
What a negative and unrealistic opinion.
The main users of such systems will be business people, like me and we do not speak loudly as much of what we say is sensitive info.
Given the airframe generated noise, this will not greatly add to the cabin noise and having used VOIP with connexions on several occasions, even the pax in the next seats said they were not disturbed when I did courtesy checks.
An amazing omission for a carrier that usually recognizes the important of premium pax.
And I'm sorry Bahrain Lad, but most Y pax buy on price - given some of the sh*te legroom and of features that they put up with, I don't forsee flacks of pax paying more for Y tickets - look at AAs experience with increasing seat pitch.

[BahrainLad]

Do you honestly think that premium pax (and the Y over J 'value' argument is such a red herring here) will give up a totally flat bed on BA for a slopey-flat bed on LH or SQ just because of Wi-Fi access....when they want to spend most of the flight asleep?

It's kind of like the Sleeper Service when they intro'd it on East Coast routes. Everyone (myself included) squealed about BA removing food from Club and predicted that everyone would flock to the competition where you could still get a full meal on an ex-JFK to Europe.

Now, 80%+ of passengers think the SS is a BA usp, and not the reverse!

Add that to the increasing number of executives who see a longhaul flight as the only time they're free from the tyranny of the office, email, 'Crackberries' and the like....and the lack of wi-fi is not the deal breaker you think it is. And when you factor in the capital cost.....whoa!

[apaddyinuk]

I think the whole BA Wifi thing is merely because the company cannot currently justify the cost of installing the hardware throughout its aircraft, especially when the technology is still in its infancy. Perhaps in a few years when second and third generation systems are available and aircraft are actually designed with it in mind then BA will be happy to have it installed!

[discountinvestigator]

I agree with Bahrainlad on this one. I pay to sleep. I used to spend four nights a week as a pax on 744s. If I want to sit up and play with my computer, then BA's WTP product is fine for that.

Additional communications would be useful, but what can the office actually do? Divert the aircraft, no, but they can get me at the gate to turn around and go elsewhere.

I carry enough work onto the aircraft to last me the journey as it is thank you. Lack of oxygen and sleep is not a good place to start making corporate decisions at the speed of email.

If I recognise the handle, BahrainLad should have no trouble in "Spotting" who I am. However, I need a different handle here :) .

flat and horizontal beds are king. The best bit about the BA NNCW and NCW products are the rear facing seats as they get the pitch about right to make the blood go in the right direction for sleeping. When flying BA First, then I alway switch round to go head forward as it is easier to sleep that way.

Happy landings (and no jigsaw puzzles!)

[sixmilehighclub]

having travelled in both cabins, I have yet to feel jet-lagged when I get off the aircraft from a Club seat! I absolutely agree! :ok:

Just to stretch out and not have your knees and elbows knocking against someone elses during sleeping/ eating. etc is a godsend.

You could lift you legs into the air if you wish (I'm not called sixmilehighclub for nothing you know!) and theres no person in front of you to recline into your chicken casserole. The food is better and theres a wider range of higher quality drinks.

If you're clostrophobic, its far better too as you do feel theres much more space.

[slim_slag]

... having travelled in both cabins, I have yet to feel jet-lagged when I get off the aircraft from a Club seat! Now I hate to be picky (or maybe not), but jet lag is officially classified as a circadian rhythm disorder. So you may not be so tired when you get off because you had some sleep, but if you have crossed many time zones your body clock is still out of whack and I don't think that even BA has the technology to drag your circadian rhythm along with the seat. If it did, it would be worth more than £3000!

Compare what you feel like during the week after flying from UK->South Africa, as opposed to UK->Singapore. When flying North-South, the perceived benefits of club class only last one day. It's the same with flying east-west, you cannot buy yourself out of circadian rhythm pain by paying more for your seat.

Now if it important to be alert on that first day after a long flight, it may well be worth paying the extra for a flat seat, so for a few business travellers it may make sense. For most business travellers you should leave a day early and fly in the back, and get a proper nights sleep in a real bed before going to your meeting. Most business travellers don't get paid enough to make that extra day in the office pay back the extra expense of the flat seat. IMHO of course :)

[CherokeeDriver]

Thought the floowing link may be useful - the company are making 8000 club class seats a month! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4808798.stm

[Final 3 Greens]

Most business travellers don't get paid enough to make that extra day in the office pay back the extra expense of the flat seat. IMHO of course

Its not what you get paid, but rather the opportunity cost of that extra day.

I get charged out as a consultant at more per day than the cost of a one way club seat to the US - sadly, I don't get paid that much:}

[Crepello]

Here's another way to think about it, slim_slag: Every Monday morning, you've a meeting that's an overnight flight away from home. Your boss lets you choose between Economy on the Saturday + hotel, or Business on the Sunday. You don't get paid the difference.

Would you prefer to lose every Saturday pm and Sunday, or 'only' every Sunday pm?

OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario but when you travel a lot, those extra days really add up. And for the company, the fares are tax-deductible.

[PAXboy]

The Slag that is Slim ... you cannot buy yourself out of circadian rhythm pain by paying more for your seat. Indeed you cannot. One friend of mine made an annual trip Michigan to UK and never experienced jet lag. His body just did not mind the forced change of time zones and he was fine on the first day and thereafter, no delayed jet lag. (Known in the trade as Lagged Lag := )

Since he was 6' 2" tall and only travelled in Y, I doubt that that the seat had anything to do with it.

[Globaliser]

Now I hate to be picky (or maybe not), but jet lag is officially classified as a circadian rhythm disorder. So you may not be so tired when you get off because you had some sleep, but if you have crossed many time zones your body clock is still out of whack and I don't think that even BA has the technology to drag your circadian rhythm along with the seat."Officially", I agree.

But what people describe as jet lag is actually a combination of a lot of different things. There's the circadian rhythm disruption, of course. But there's also lack of sleep/tiredness/fatigue, exacerbated to various degrees by stress and anxiety; there's stiffness and soreness in various body parts from sitting immobile for too long, particularly if you really can't move very much; there's the lethargy that comes from immobility/lack of exercise; there's dehydration; there's that sticky-lived-in-for-too-long feeling in your clothes; and (for some) there's just the plain common-or-garden hangover.

The benefit of the entire end-to-end premium class service is that it deals with as much as possible of that (although the hangover and dehydration stuff remains largely a voluntarily-acquired disability) and leaves you, if you want, with only the circadian rhythm disruption. That also then leaves you streets ahead of where you would be if you were flying economy.

[Crepello]

Additional communications would be useful, but what can the office actually do?
Never mind the office... I'm flying longhaul at the weekend, and will be aloft for all three Six Nations matches... aargghh... :eek: :( There will be no sleeping.

Ideally of course, proper flatbeds and WiFi would be nice... and that's where I think BA missed a trick.

Good point about fatigue - I was fortunate enough to do LHR-JFK in a little over 3 hours, back in the good ol' days, and felt remarkably fresh after the flight.

[slim_slag]

A couple of unusual reasons why it's worth paying the extra to travel in club, but then I did say for a few business travellers it may make sense. For most business travellers you should leave a day early and fly in the back,I doff my cap to F3G for begin able to generate £2000 a day revenue, and would take it off and bow if he could do that for 44 weeks a year. If he can, then I think his boss should let him fly business class wherever he wanted (which would no doubt be billed to the client who would have to fly in the back if he was doing the same trip). crepello has another unusual requirement, and in his case I would recommend video conferencing, which has come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years. For the price of a few club round trips you could get some very nice kit indeed.
(a business class seat)... also then leaves you streets ahead of where you would be if you were flying economy.Yes I am sure it does, but only until the economy pax has had some sleep. The cure for being tired is quite simple and effective, get some sleep. By day two I doubt you could tell the difference between them (except the club passenger would be boasting about it :) )

[Pax Vobiscum]

I would recommend video conferencing, which has come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years
Entirely agree, slim_slag, mostly because bandwidth is now so cheap. Sadly, there's always been a minority of alpha male wannabees that judge their importance by how many Sheraton points they can rack up.

Of course, there's lots of work that can't effectively be done over a video link, but they ought to be used much more frequently, if only out of consideration for the environment.

[Globaliser]

I did say I doff my cap to F3G for begin able to generate £2000 a day revenue, and would take it off and bow if he could do that for 44 weeks a year.Without meaning any disrespect to F3G for what he does and how much he is charged out at, this is hardly unusual in today's business world.

In my own field, even relatively junior lawyers in City law firms will be charged out at such rates before they've had that much post-qualification experience. Equally sadly, they will only ever see a small fraction of that themselves.

[FlyingConsultant]

Here's another way to think about it, slim_slag: Every Monday morning, you've a meeting that's an overnight flight away from home.
[snip]
OK, hopefully this is an unrealistic scenario
I wish:mad: ! That's where I am at the moment and for the next 2-3 months. Every Sunday from East Coast to West Coast, back after 1-2 days via red eye.
Unfortunately, not on the real business class seats in AA and UA from JFK to LA and SFO but on the classical 737 "First Class" seats. Hahahaha "First Class", there is a good laugh:mad: :{ . I am actually looking forward to my monthly transatlantic flight in AA First so I can get some good sleep.
Forget transatlantic lie-flat - I want trans-US seats that are not 15 years old!
FC

[FlyingConsultant]

Of course, there's lots of work that can't effectively be done over a video link, but they ought to be used much more frequently, if only out of consideration for the environment.
I actually do a lot of work on the phone, not even video. My lifestyle improved over the last 3 years, once I started to be senior enough to say "no". (I know - the post above says something else, but that's hopefully temporary). You can have solid content conversations on the phone since nowadays, we are able to email presentations and other documents and talk about them. Wasn't possible to that extend 10 years ago.
But as you point out, limitations apply, especially when you are building up new clients. And when you are - as is often the case for me - building up a completely new team out of inexperienced people who need personal coaching and attention. Can't do that over the phone 3-6 timezones away (or more, sometimes).
As for the running comment about revenue - I wish I got 50% of my per-diem. And I am not a lawyer. Clients are happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise.
FC

[PAXboy]

Flying Con ;) ... happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise. Hhmm, well, it's another discussion altogether but: Working in Telecommunications for 25+ years I found that - as the technology entered every day life as fax machines/mobile phones/e-mail/internet then clients thought that they understood it and did not need an expert to tell them. Pointing out that buying a cordless phone at home and a network of 200 cordless phones in an office building was not the same thing ... was met by polite disagreement and end of sales pitch.

In other words, whereas the really big companies knew that they had complex installations and needed specialised help, at the middle and smaller end of the market, they thought that they understood it and could do without. "But it's just a telephone!" (and many other things besides). Now, all specialists say this across the years I am sure but it's just my observation of one of the changes that I (and colleagues/friends) have seen.

__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Globaliser]

As for the running comment about revenue - I wish I got 50% of my per-diem. And I am not a lawyer. Clients are happy to pay $$$$$ for many different flavors of professional expertise.Sorry, I didn't mean my comment about lawyers to sound as restrictive as I see it did. I've now edited my post above.

[Patrick Bateman]

So,
its been a while now since this thread started.
I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
One did however say that the new seats were not any longer (I could do with 2 more inches) and that the front / back facing configuration was the same. They also added that apart from a few "tweaks" the new seats were essentially the same as the existing ones.
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?

[Globaliser]

I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
...
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?All who have seen the seats have had to sign a strict confidentiality agreement before being allowed to, so it's not surprising that they're unwilling to say. And also unsurprising that there are no photos around - that would rather defeat the object of the exercise, wouldn't it? :)

The only other bit of detail that has leaked out is that the seats will be effectively wider, especially when in the bed mode. There's some speculation that this will be done by dropping the "armrest" on one side as the seat is reclined flat. That's a trick which is already found on some other current generation business class seats.

Various different reports of launch date - July, August or September. However, whichever one it is, we will be put out of our misery quite soon.

[FloridaCandle]

Oh, please no. I love the facing pairs - great for couples. Even if a CSD did once threaten to throw a bucket of cold water over us. :D
Down boy, down boy !! ;) :D

[AUTOGLIDE]

Hi Spanish Flea, unfortunately that trial has ended so we dont have any wireless onboard at present. Also Willie Walsh is on record somewhere as saying that he feels the likes of inflight wireless are standards for the next generation of longhaul aircraft such as the A380/787/747-8 etc. He does not see a sufficient business case for installing systems on the current fleet. Now, thats his opinion, make of that what you will! :}


Next generation? Madness, hello modern world calling. Lufthansa have been using it for about 2 years, and the list of airlines with this is now pretty big. Personally whether there is internet access on-board affects my choice of carrier, surfing the web, listening to radio stations of my choice etc makes the intolerable experience of flying almost bareable.
BTW, Air New Zealand have a variant of the VS seat also.

[Globaliser]

Personally whether there is internet access on-board affects my choice of carrier, surfing the web, listening to radio stations of my choice etc makes the intolerable experience of flying almost bareable.But surely you'd recognise that this is very personal? I'm sure BA must have formed a view about how many people would be using internet access, both having done an airborne trial on a real route and also knowing what people actually do on board. And one of the things that BA is most keen to offer its premium pax is sleep; a highly successful strategy, it seems. Obviously, there will always be some pax like yourself, but the commercial questions will be how many, and do the numbers make it worthwhile?

[PAXboy]

For those that are concerned that Wi-Fi will cause a rash of folks using Skype and simialr services to make those "I'm on a plane" calls: It will be a cinch for the carrier to prevent these. Since all data will have to go through a single point, it is very easy to set the router to prevent any connections of that type. Naturally the reason would be to preseve the quiet of the cabin, rather than preserve the mark-up cost of using their sat phone system. :8

[Globaliser]

Next generation? Madness, hello modern world calling. Lufthansa have been using it for about 2 years, and the list of airlines with this is now pretty big. Personally whether there is internet access on-board affects my choice of carrier, surfing the web, listening to radio stations of my choice etc makes the intolerable experience of flying almost bareable.Slightly OT, but it looks like onboard internet is proving so popular that Boeing may have to shut down Connexion. Original report was in the WSJ, but online reports available here (Flight) (http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/06/23/Navigation/177/207366/Boeing+'studying'+future+of+onboard+internet+service+provide r+Connexion+arm,+with+sale.html), here (MSN Money) (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=AP&Date=20060622&ID=5817622) and here (PC World) (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,126219,00.asp).

[jfoj]

Does anyone know if this new entertainment system will be installed in World Traveller and World Traveller Plus?

[apaddyinuk]

jfoj....The first 767 has rolled out with the new AVOD system and is currently plying the Detroit route. AVOD is available throughout the aircraft however they have not installed games for WT yet as they dont have similiar handsets to play the games. They are apparently in discussions with the manufacturer to make games available for WT but this will take some time.

[Blowstar]

Thanks to a FA of my recent but briefly intimate acquaintance (they really should enlarge the crew rest area, it was all elbows and knees) I can reveal that the new colour scheme is a graduated series of cream/stone/taupe shades, that the side/armrest of the chair lowers during the recline/bed mode, and that the seat module is FRACTIONALLY wider and longer than the existing one.

FA also thought that the footrest was being strengthened to work like a visitor seat, but that the other improvements were gimmicky, to do with the food offer and not the comfort or IFE.

Hope this helps. I'd guess rollout starts with the season changeover in October when BA can rest some aircraft from the peak routes.





So,
its been a while now since this thread started.
I have travelled in Club and some of the crew that I have spoken to have seen the new seats. However they were not generally not willing to discuss details.
One did however say that the new seats were not any longer (I could do with 2 more inches) and that the front / back facing configuration was the same. They also added that apart from a few "tweaks" the new seats were essentially the same as the existing ones.
Has anyone else heard or seen any more details? Are any photos available?

[apaddyinuk]

Today was actually meant to be the official role out for the press. Still waiting to hear!!!!

[10secondsurvey]

If they make the club beds just a touch longer (as is rumoured), they get my vote.

Presently, they are just too short for my liking :).

Everything else will be fine, if they keep the rather nice 15yr old Glenlivet (one of the very good things about BA).

[Patrick Bateman]

Spoke to a member of staff yesterday, who did not have any real details of the new seats.
However they did say that the roll-out was possibly not going to start until Spring or Summer next year (ish) :sad:.
From the above acrobatic person :ok: , I like the sounds of an arm rest that lowers during recline mode, hopefully providing a slightly wider sleeping area.
Seats being "fractionally" longer is also something to hope for.
Keep the tidbits/spyshots coming :cool:.

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

I have heard an announcement is due on thr 13th November (from Flyertalk).

Regards

TBS

[SLF3]

They are gradually rolling out bits and pieces of the new Club World 'offering':
- New pillows: bigger, without the frilly bit round the edge: better
- New (noise cancelling) headphones: big improvement
- New blanket: looks like an eiderdown, stone colour, thicker than the old one. Don't use them, can't comment
- New washbag: Mouthwash has gone, otherwise much the same
- New menus: less choice and noticeably cheaper cuts of meat, less fish. Suspect the new menus will be very unpopular
- Have been told they are going to have microwaves and free choice meals after the main service. Suspect this means they are cutting out the second meal / snack on flights to places like Houston
- Not bothered about the entertainment system - most regulars play DVDs on a laptop or portable player
- Have been told the seats are still head to toe and marginally larger (as above)
Some of the Club World cabins are looking very tired and grubby, I hope the replacements (doesn't sound like an upgrade) come quickly.
All in all, plenty of evidence of cost cutting, the only real improvement is the headphones which others (Cathay) have had for years.

[flybywire]

I am working in training at the moment and had the pleasure to have an in-depth read about the new club world product, I also hear crew talking about it and it's good to see their reactions.
While my lips are sealed as I do not know what has already been published and what hasn't, I have one thing to say about the new menus....

I truly do not think the new food is going to be worse than in the past, on the contrary I have seen really yummy dishes, including the so called "healthy" options.

Not many people like change, it seems, but I am confident in BA's ability to do good things for our long-haul product. I wish I could say the same about the short-haul though! :rolleyes:

[bealine]

Yeah but when you think about it, this amount will be paid off after about 3 sectors!!!

If passengers are paying full fares yes! Don't forget the vast majority of J class passengers are flying on heavily discounted corporate deal tickets, "free" mileage award tickets or upgra*es because World Chaveller Plus has been oversold.

The "pay for itself in three sectors" is a bit of urban myth - probably more like ten sectors in today's climate.

[Salusa]

Any word on the installtion of Connexion internet access, as thats pretty much the only area in which BA lags behind with its biz product? Is there still a 744 flying around with the trial version in or has that stopped now?

Connexion is a Boeing supplied service which is being completely withdrawn in a month or so from all airlines due to lack of uptake.

There may be a replacement or someone may buy the rights from Boeing, but nothing definite yet.

[Patrick Bateman]

Well it is finally here :)
BA are holding the public launch of the new Club World product this month (November) in London.
Important customers are being invited to the event which will be run over several days.
Important customers include Gold Card holders (I don't know if Silver are included in this).
Not sure when the actual roll-out within the fleet will begin.
Good news, can't wait to see it in action :)

[Patrick Bateman]

From the British Airways Preview Invitation.

"You may be aware that British Airways is launching a redesigned Club World experience.

Since revolutionising the world of aviation with the first ever flat bed in business class back in 2000, we've continued to innovate and invest in order to meet the ever-changing demands of our customers. Based on your feedback, every element of Club World has now been enhanced to set new standards for business travel."

"I would be delighted if you could join us at an exclusive unveiling of the new look Club World at the East Wintergardens, Canary Wharf, London."
"This two hour event is you chance to experience the contempory new feel before it rolls out across the network, but attendance is limited to our most important customers only" etc etc

Dates are 13th, 14th and 15th November 2006. There is one event on the 15th, two on the 14th, and four on the 15th.

[BugAlugs-rar]

Well i'm booked in to this NEW and SUPRISING view of club world. Next Tuesday not sure what to expect from a marketing event, maybe some wine !

[silverelise]

Dates are 13th, 14th and 15th November 2006. There is one event on the 15th, two on the 14th, and four on the 15th.
err....run that by me again? :confused:

[CHIVILCOY]

Go see it;

http://www.newclubworld.com/european/applet_test/tour2.html

[flybywire]

Finally today is the day!!!
I have been asked by too many people how the seats were etc and just couldn't keep it inside anymore ;) I believe it will make a huge impact on our customers, the crew are happy about it and that is always a welcome reaction!!
Thank god no more "fans" in between seats, those things used to drive me nuts ;)

FBW

[slim_slag]

Can you remove those translucent barriers if you are travelling as a couple?

[manintheback]

privacy screen on the window? hmmmm. All the rest looks nice.

[silverelise]

Is that the aeroplane cabin? Looked like the cube farm at my New York office.

[Cyrano]

From the press section on the BA website:
Changes include a new dividing screen made of an innovative material, Lumisty, which allows cabin crew standing in the aisle to see through it, enabling them to identify whether customers need anything. However, to those sat in the seat, the screen will appear opaque, providing them with privacy from the customer opposite.
Is it just me or does this sound a little odd? You, the passenger, think you are enjoying privacy in your seat as the screens are opaque so you can't see out, but in fact those in the aisle can see in.
Apparently this stuff (see details on Lumisty explanation site here (http://www.lumistyfilm.com/lumisty.htm)) is transparent at some viewing angles and translucent (frosted) at others. Perhaps someone who goes to one of the "see the new Clyub World product" sessions can enlighten us on what it's actually like.

[BugAlugs-rar]

Off to the marketing event tomorrow at 11:00 Will take a camera if i'm allowed to use it.

Bugs

[keeperboy]

The privacy screens raise and lower electronically.

The screens are opaque. When you are seated in the seat, it appears frosted and you cannot see the seat next to you.

This however posed difficulties for the crew when they needed to check seatbelts etc. So the opaque divider is actually clear/see thru when standing in the aisle. This way the crew do not need disturb passengers when the seat belt sign in switched on.

There is also a manual pull down divider incorporated between the middle two rearward facing seats. Previously there was no divider between the E & F seats.

Other features of the new seat include: it is now 25% wider (the armrest lower to the same position as the seat when in the bed poistion). In the 'Z' position the bed becomes 6'6". The IFE is now AVOD with a 10" screen (up from 8"). In seat power supply only now requires a regular uk/us adaptor. New bulkheads/fixtures/fitting. 'Club Kitchen' with a fixed self help bar and cold/hot snacks available to be cooked at any time.

[Patrick Bateman]

Does anyone have any photo's from the launch event that they can post?

Also what took place there, were there mockups etc?

If mockups existed, were they usable, and how did the seats/beds feel?

Any other info welcome :)

From the new BA website, I really like the look of the new cabin, the seat looks fantastic and I especially like the fact that it is now 6' 6" long - I find the existing one too short.

Looking forward to trying this out for real.

[Rach-G]

Video of first aircraft fitted with new cabin
http://www.heathrowtv.com/baclub.html

[manintheback]

Purely tongue in cheek but

The video shows a lady talking to the man in the window seat and then shutting the privacy screen. I'm not sure what message BA is sending out there.........

[christep]

I really hope they've sorted out some improved airflow with all those high partitions - the old layout was horribly stuffy and claustrophobic; at first sight this one looks even worse. There's a lot to be said for individual air vents within the personal space (as on the AA Flagship Suites).

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

This is one of the issues I have with BA Club World seating- no individual air vents ( VS Upper class has them and it is occasionally nice to get a blast of air in your face!!):)

( Although I think the lack of air vents are on all BA longhaul a/c in all cabins)

Regards

TBS

[10secondsurvey]

I have to say, I was quite looking forward to this NGCW, even had an invite to the 'show', but couldn't go. But now having had time to digest the details, I'm not so sure. Taken in conjuunction with newly announced changes to check in procedures, even when flying club, and I'm starting to get hacked off with BA's "enhancements".

To be fair, the better food can only be a good thing, but I'm not so fussy, and didn't notice any major deficits, previously. The new entertainment will also be good, with on-demand video, which is great, having recently used it on a Virgin flight

The flat beds are still too short, 6 foot, despite the marketing (mis-leading) spin about 6'6" (just whilst in the 'z' position). As for those screens, they kind of remind me of the kind of fixtures found in old NHS (UK) hospitals, with that pale washed out colouration and opaque plastic.

I know it's kinf of off-topic, but I'm just hacked off with the London centric view taken by BA lately, and at present, I'm avoiding them. In my opinion, without regional connections, i might as well use BMI, or even Maxjet or Eos. I even flew with BMI recently, and what a refreshing pleasant experience. On my next few american trips I'm going back to Virgin (If only BMI would interline - I know they say they do on a single ticket, but reality is actually quite different).

It's pretty clear to me, that many of the perks currently available to BA frequent flyers will soon be a thing of the past. Clearly Willie Walsh is of the opinion that frequent flyers will stay loyal no matter what 'enhancements' he introduces, but I'm not one of them.

[silverelise]

Video of first aircraft fitted with new cabin
http://www.heathrowtv.com/baclub.html
Can't be on BA that stewardess is far too young.

[flybywire]

Hahahahaha! Very funny :E She's actually a good 6-8 years oldear than me!!

Not that I am one but you'd be impressed by the number of boys/girls we have now who were born in 1987...:uhoh:

[silverelise]

Hahahahaha! Very funny :E She's actually a good 6-8 years oldear than me!!
I just checked out your photo in JetBlast - I'm suprised you're old enough for BA :)
Not that I am one but you'd be impressed by the number of boys/girls we have now who were born in 1987...:uhoh:
I would be very impressed. I can just hear the number ones now..."you're young enough to be my granddaughter, dear...."

Personally I prefer a nice Monarch 1981 vintage, though apparently as she's 25 next month she is officially "old" :ugh: :sad:

[manintheback]

Does anyone know of news on route introduction? - I cant find anything on BA website

[apaddyinuk]

Does anyone know of news on route introduction? - I cant find anything on BA website



The aircraft currently configured seem to be operating mainly on the LA,MIA,HKG,NRT routes out of T1 but BA are not currently advertising it until they can get a number of aircraft configured and provide dedicated new club world routes! But dont worry, they say all the cabins will be configured by april 2008 which is a hell of a lot faster then the last embodyment programme!

[manintheback]

Thanks for that, I've got a Joburg trip early next month and Toronto end of March. Didnt expect the Toronto flight to change - it always seems to be one of the last, but thought there may be a chance on JNB.

[Hotel Mode]

The T1 things a bit of a bad lead right now, believe its in T4 at the moment. Its actually on a DXB tonight and it has done GRU at least once. Its a 70 Club aircraft so it'll be on the high business routes. When there are enough i think theyll be advertised on the high J T1 flights. BA25/6 HKG BA268/9 LAX BA55/6 JNB and BA6/7 NRT.

[Cluster One]

British Airways will upgrade to Rockwell Collins' TES (total entertainment system) on its 57 B-747s, 25 B-777s and 14 B-767s with AVOD (audio/video on demand), daily digital news and audio jukebox capabilities.

The upgrade, which should be completed by December 2007.

What is the current status on this upgrade program?

[wub]

What is the current status on this upgrade program?
To date eight high J (70 seat) 747s have been converted. The first low J (38 seat) aircraft is due at the end of February

[Patrick Bateman]

Just wanted to see if anyone knows the latest state of the upgrade program?

Flying to Johannesburg next month (May) and was wondering if they have been used on that route yet?

Also any experiences from anybody who has travelled in the new cabin?
Cheers

[manintheback]

Flew to JNB last month on a 747 and it was still the old Club world. BA seem to have gone rather quiet on whats happening with it. No updates are being sent out to exec members and last weeks trip over the Atlantic the CD I asked had no idea what was happening. Dare say one of the insiders here can shed more light.

[apaddyinuk]

BA have made it official to staff that they will not be heavily promoting the New Club cabin until at least 25% of the fleet is configured with it. Newly configured aircraft are entering the fleet every week however. I only flew on it for the first time last week however and Im crew for the airline! LOL!
None of the 777's have been configured as yet however and I think 2 of the Jumbos now are in the "mid-J" config. You will also find that at most of the gates at LHR disembarking is taking place (as of the 1st of April anyways) at doors 1 on the jumbos so that they dont encounter the problem of WT+ passengers getting off the plane before First!!!

I would say wait until the summer time and BA will be promoting it more. At this stage it is just pot luck if you get a new club cabin! And remember, the 767 is remaining with the old cabin!

www.newclubworld.com

[CHIVILCOY]

I shall be travelling in BA CW to EZE this year however looking at pictures of the cabin (not upper deck) it looks to me as if the cabin is rather cramped especially with the 2-4-2 config.

As I suffer slightly from claustrophobia I am having some doubts about going CW with BA and going Business with Iberia instead.

Does it have a cramped feeling or is it just the pictures?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

The upper deck is preferable as it is only 2-2 seating rather than 2-4-2 on the main deck.

It does look a little cramped but it is not too bad ( esp if you will be sleeeping or watiching the movies). I would avoid the 4 in the middle though and try to get a seat in the 2 seats at the side.

Regards

TBS

[CHIVILCOY]

TBS

Thanks for that, the upper deck is probably out of bounds for me as a Blue but hopefully the wife and I can get the 2 seats at the window.

BA must have one of the highest density Business cabin layouts amongst all the longhaul carriers with that 2-4-2 config?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

That is the problem with the new seating policy of BA ( no seats in club assigned until T-24 unless you are Gold/Silver or full fare).

Even though I'm Gold I'm not that impressed with the seating policy ( I started as a Blue member and I'm fortunate to be able to fly enough to reach Gold- one day i will be back to blue.

I'm travelling with my parents to SFO in October in CW and as they are Blue and on a separate ticket ( they are coming back 2 weeks after me) they cannot get seats assigned.

I would OLCI ( online check in )at T-24 and choose the seats then .

Good luck!:)

Regards

TBS

[10bob]

I flew LHR - IAD today (upper deck on a 744) and it had the new club world product. Seats were wider and more comfortable than the old Club World and the whole deck felt much lighter and roomier with the brighter colour scheme.
I did get my first choice food from the menu, which is the first time in ages. I suspect that was more luck than the new product, though.
I would love to comment on the IFE but it was having "teething problems". It was out of service completely for a fair portion of the flight as the crew tried various times to reboot. When it was on line, they were just running the normal 12 channel service. Disappointing to have to rely on my ipod for IFE at £3.5k return.

[Alex 009]

How come with some of the BA's 744s, World Traveller + cabin is infront of Club World cabin?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi alex009,

Before the New Club world product was rolled out BA had two classes of 747-400 ,one with 70 Club world seats and one with 38 club world seats.

BA decided for the 38 club world 747-400 seat aircraft to put WT+ into the " B zone" ie between doors 1 and 2 where CW used to be and put more CW seats behind door 2 to maka a total of 52 Club world seats ( 20 on the upper deck and 32 on the main deck)

The 70 seat 747-400 aircraft are not affected by the switch ( and neither are the 777s)

Regards

TBS

[Alex 009]

Many thanks, just interested. Do you know what routes the "new B zone" world traveller plus seats are own. From what I have heard they send there 70 business seat planes over to the states more.

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

I guess it depends on how busy the premium cabin routes are for what type of aircraft to be allocated.

For example SFO & PHX tend to be the " new B zone" as they have had the 38 J seats when i have been on the routes

HKG ( 3 flights a day ) has 2 with the 70 seats and 1 with the new B zone.


Maybe someone with more knowlegde of BA ops can help.

Regards

TBS

[10bob]

Now flown back from IAD and decidedly unimpressed by the new club world product. The flight back was overnight, so I was looking forward to getting some sleep.

The seats themselves are much more comfortable, with the extra width making a big difference. However, the seat frames feel a lot more flimsy than the older style, and you often find yourself being disturbed/shaken by the person in the adjoining seat if they move about. Also, the seats are very noisy when moving - fine when its yours but very disturbing when it is someone else ;)

I wanted to watch a film before sleeping - at least this time the on demand software was working and this is a definite improvement. However, we had some very minor turbulence on the way back. The TV screens don't appear to lock into position and the turbulence was was enough to make the TV continually fall back into its housing. It was annoying to have to keep pulling it back out. I'm sure this was a fault with my individual seat, but that and the general flimsiness as noted above just gives the impression that it's all a bit cheap.

All IMHO anyway.

[apaddyinuk]

10bob...I am taking notes on what you said and intend on writing them down on our onboard forms!!! I am hoping these are just teething niggles much like the old plastic dividers on the old seats when they were first introduced!

[teleport]

Flew to JFK some weeks ago, and a technician from the AVOD supplier was at hand on both flights to sort out seat problems as well as AVOD problems.

[Lily Rowan]

I recently traveled JFK – LHR and return in club. LHR flight had old club world seats and featured “sleeper service;” haven eaten dinner in the club lounge, I attempted to get to sleep directly after take-off. Despite acquiring a seat in the quiet upper cabin, donning eye shades, etc, I managed only 90 minutes of fitful sleep. After a couple of restless hours, I noticed that the second showing of The Departed was just about to begin and spent the remainder of the flight engrossed in the film. While fully-flat, the old Club World seats are a bit uncomfortable and leave me tossing and turning – I think that they rise up in the center, sloping down on the sides. And the fabric is a bit itchy. :ouch:

The JFK flight featured New Club World, and I had tons of fun playing with the new buttons, switches, drawers, etc. :8 I agree with the previous poster who mentioned the “lighter” look of the new design – seats and décor are a dark beige, as opposed to dark blue. The new shoe drawer is much more convenient; the new window shade is wonderful and fully blocks out the person sitting in the next seat; and I found the new seat-adjustment buttons with pre-set configurations convenient. The AVOD IFE system was greatly appreciated, as I was able to start my movie-of-choice exactly when I desired (and the streamlined look of the new movie screen did not go unnoticed). The new tray tables are also a significant improvement - extremely easy to unfold, adjust, and return to storage position. The only two things I missed from the old Club layout were (1) the little drinks coaster and (2) the little cubby hole on the side of the seat.

The new seats are exponentially more comfortable than the old. As a testament: I started my movie selection (Casino Royale) directly after dinner and fell asleep just after Bond hit the casino – the next thing I knew, the FAs had switched on the cabin lights in preparation for our pre-landing snack! Considering my normal in-flight sleep patterns (i.e., little to none, regardless of time of day, length of flight, class of service, or state of exhaustion), this is nothing short of a miracle, and I attribute it to the new seats’ softer feel, shape, and material. :D

In the future, when traveling BA Club, I think I will be slightly disappointed if my flight hasn’t been re-fitted with the new seats. As an additional observation, it seemed as though the Cabin Crew were very enthusiastic about the new Club product – and that enjoyment permeated through to the service. Can any BA staff comment on whether this is the standard reaction or if I just had a particularly cheery crew that day?

[manintheback]

TV advertising has started so I guess they must have reasonable numbers converted now.

[Patrick Bateman]

BA have sent out a flyer to exec club members that advertises the new product as being used on LHR - JFK.

I presume that this means all a/c on that route will have the new seats. :ok:

As for other routes, who knows. :confused:

Hoping though :)

[TwinAisle]

I posted this on another forum some time back - might be useful to someone!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know whether this trip report adds to anyone's store of knowledge, but if it does, great!

I've just got off the BA26, operated by 'LN, with NCW. I thought I'd share some thoughts with you as someone who has fallen out with the Exec Club, but who has a respect for BA and their crew. I do prefer EK though, so these comments should be read in that context.

The Good Points:

1. The cabin looks very nice. The colour won't appeal to everyone, it is the sort of stone/whitey colour that computers are frequently finished in, but to me it looks contemporary, spacious and modern (albeit a bit like a server farm!!) The unusual lightfitting (very 1960s!) looks great as well, as does the illuminated Speedwing. Carpets are new, mid blue.

2. The meal table - a million miles improved on the old one, easier to open, doesn't foul the monitor etc, slides nicely back and fore. Could do with a slightly lipped edge though, to stop things sliding off.

3. The laptop drawer - brilliant idea!

4. AVOD - great screen, very easy to use, and on my flight faultless - the AVOD engineer had a quiet time. Although the choice of films and programmes I thought was a tad limited...

5. The seat is VERY comfortable, especially when down as a bed. Slept for over 8 hours last night, which I never managed in OCW. Feels much more padded, and the head rest is firmer and higher. The armrests drop down nicely as well.

6. It feels much more private than OCW - I was in the front row window seat on the lower deck - 12K - and it felt very private.

The Not So Good Points:

1. The seat, when it is upright, feels narrower than OCW. It may be the "wing" on the seat.

2. The dividing screen - made of a sort of translucent plastic. If your "other half" has the light on, it glows badly - would be much better if more lightproof.

3. The footstool is now part of the next seat, rather than anchored to the floor. My footstool fell down during the night, and the shockwave this put through the next seat woke the guy up - not so good.

4. It all feels a bit fragile, to be honest. Everything wobbles, and compared to OCW, it feels much flimsier. Also, the reclining mechanism is quite noisy and "clunky" - it helped to get off the seat to adjust it, or at least raise my weight off it.

5. The colour doesn't hide dirt.... the cabin had many grubby fingerprints apparent. Also, those new pillows are ghastly - dated and look downright grubby.

6. The reading light is downright fiddly - and they have dispensed with the overhead light entirely, which doesn't help.

7. The new Raid the Larder thing was pretty uninspiring - a few honey flapjacks, Twix bars and drinks....

TA

[apaddyinuk]

Twin Aisle,

You seem to have summed up the crews feelings on the NCW product alright. However I just wish to make two observations based on what you said.

The reading lights have been replaced from the ceiling to the lip above the headrest in order to reduce light interference with your neighbours, although yes the current switch is a bit gimmicky.

Also I dont feel the Club Kitchen may have been set up fully on your flight as there should be a chiller full of icecreams, salads, sandwiches and a handful of other goodies too. They are also slowly introducing microwaves to support the club kitchen and we will eventually have snacks to be heated too.

Hope that helps!

[brockenspectre]

Any news on the roll-out of the new Club World config. to the 777 fleet? Apart from any "bonus" personal travel, I treat myself to two trips to visit chums in Florida each year and since the parky bo11ox kicked in I buy the Club World product (I tried WT+ to USA and Club World back once but price difference was minimal!). I am delighted that the seat config appears to be retained - I do so love my 3 windows!


The Banking Scot - you mentioned your parents not being allocated seats ahead of T-24? When I did my Feb/Mar trip having booked my ticket in November 2006, the seat I was originally allocated was the seat on offer to me at online check-in and ... was my seat of choice! So if your parents have their preferences set (I am only a humble 'Blue these days too) then that should work for them OK :ok:


TwinAisle - great sitrep (to be expected, mate, LTNS!) ... will be interesting to experience the new product for meself!


As for whoever it was a few pages back who wrote that biz travellers don't speak loudly may I utter a resounding "hah"!! Three US biz types kept the front cabin on my last autumn return flight to UK totally awake with their self-important biz-chat. Were I in the travel business I would have had their new "product" in the bag before landing!! Usually, though, the TPA/LGW flights are great - a lot of retired Brits with homes in FL who just don't want to create mayhem... it is actually civilised flying!!! :ok:


Having flown with BA (mostly) for over 35yrs I probably won't change now - although the Virgin product is fun a flight to MCO is too out of my way! :)

[TwinAisle]

Thanks Paddy - I should have added that the crew were terrific as well - on the long night flight back from HKG there was no demand for food apart from the meals that I could see, so perhaps the team just didn't bother putting it out. Can't say I blame them!

Hey Brock - LTNS indeed - when you in these parts again?

TA

[Curious Pax]

Same question as brokenspectre - what's the schedule for the NCW rollout on LGW 777s? Looking at splashing out on it to Orlando next May, but would want to be pretty confident that it would be the new product, as travelling with a youngster AVOD is extremely attractive! It would give them a definite lift against the Virgin flights, as the 744s they use out of Gatwick don't seem to have it.

[manintheback]

According to CC on yesterdays flight back from Boston, approx 18 747s only have been converted with 777s not expected until late 2007/2008.

And good ole Heathrow - 1 hour sitting by the runway waiting for a gate.

[apaddyinuk]

You will love this then Manintheback,

The lastest Galley FM i heard is that the 777 cabins are unable to fit the new Club World seats in an 8 across layout. So instead of reducing the capacity they are trying to rework to design so that the same units will be in a staggered fashion. Not rather sure what that means as I dont think they are talking about a herringbone layout but sure, lets wait and see!

[mulac21]

If WT+ is in front of new club world, does that mean those passengers diseambark the aircraft prior to the Club World passengers?

Can someone let me know as it infuriates me that BA don't seem to prioritise disembarking (standard practice I've discovered on VS)?

[spanishflea]

Yes, WT+ pax disembark before CW pax.

BA highlighted many obstacles in the creation of the Mid-J fleet. Reverse priority in disembarkation between W and J was one of them. However the additional revenue generated across the network from having 14 extra J seats was decided to far outweigh the negative perceptions some CW pax will have regarding the new layout.

[mulac21]

Thanks, Spanish Flea.

One other question - does that mean CW and WT+ share toilets etc? How is it segregated? Flying in First (or even maybe CW) it would infuriate me if the toilets were occupied by WT+ pax.

[spanishflea]

First definitly has its own Galley and toilet area segregated from the rest of the aircraft.

Can't remember how the arrangement goes between WT+ and CW on the lower deck though. I'll take a look on my flights this week and see.

[apaddyinuk]

SEND YOUR LETTERS INTO BA IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE LAYOUT....They are not listening to the crew!

Ooops, not shouting....just making a strong point! LOL!

[MrSoft]

Nope, lower deck WTP definitely not allowed in the Club Lavs. From memory the bulkhead separating WTP and Club doesn't actually have a lav built into it. WTP have to turn round and wander back to the WT facilities.

[mulac21]

So WT+ pax have to walk through the downstairs CW cabin to get to the WT lavs??? This is all very confusing. Is it too silly to ask why BA didn't put CW where WT+ is??

[MuttleyJ]

No. This WTPlus cabin is between doors 1&2. There is a toilet for the WTP passengers within this cabin at the back, just in front of door 2 left. Then after door 2, is the Club World cabin with toilets for the club passengers. The WTP passengers are far more likely to use the First toilets, as these are just in front of their seats. A closed curtain and some polite advice is given to save these toilets for the First passengers.

[Haven't a clue]

A closed curtain and some polite advice is given to save these toilets for the First passengers

When I'm in F it seems such advice to CW pax doesn't work, so maybe they should drop the "polite" bit!

[Alex 009]

Whats the latest regarding the 777s with the NCW and do any have AVOD yet?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi Alex 009,

I uderstand that the first 777 maybe outfitted with NGCW and AVOD begining in April/May 2008.

None of the 777s have AVOD/NGCW currently.

Regards

TBS

[Final 3 Greens]

When I'm in F it seems such advice to CW pax doesn't work, so maybe they should drop the "polite" bit!

Maybe it is time that some people got a life and focused on the more important things.

F3G - a frequent F traveler, who does not mind sharing the loo with others

[MuttleyJ]

777s with NCW - don't hold your breath! Safety tests still not completed. They're saying that fitting out the 777 will start in the summer - as the airline "summer" lasts til the clocks change, I wouldn't be getting too excited.

[manintheback]

My BA CC neighbour tells me theres a strong suspicion that the 777 refit is on hold indefinitely. BA Website now strongly promotes old club world as 'award winning'. Last year you would hardly have known it was still in much of the fleet.

[Alex 009]

"British Airways is to launch a transatlantic business class only service next year from London City Airport to New York using A318 aircraft with just 32 business class seats. This will be the first time that the British flag carrier has ordered A318 aircraft, although it is unclear whether they are new or leased machines. There will be a 15 minute minimum check in time"

Also to include a westbound fuel stop.

[apaddyinuk]

I posted this last week under the British Airways thread in Airlines, Airports and Routes....

Latest internal message to cabin suggest that BA may not be upgrading the 777's with NCW or avod AT ALL!!!!

Direct quote....

"At present no decision has been taken on the embodiment of the Boeing 777s. IF the embodiment goes ahead , the first 777 will be launched March/April and will be very closely supported and monitored to ensure the system is performing reliably before more aircraft are rolled out"!

This is only weeks after cabin crew were told that the embodiment was definatly going ahead by our manager of cabin crew Simon Telling-Smith!!!

Pissup in a brewery comes to mind!

[red 7]

apaddyinuk

Not the piss up you allude to in criticism of your wage payer.

It is simply the fact that BA now have to fly a 777 flying program with 1 less777, therefore the time in the hanger needs to be reduced.
But never let the facts get in the way of galley fm.
:}

[apaddyinuk]

Oh heaven forbid I criticise my wage payer!!! Oh hallowed be the decision makers!!!

Red 7, that has very little to do with it. Indeed we are one short when it comes to the 777 fleet at present however BA management have been stalling and hiding the truth behind the 777 fleet NCW upgrade for far too long. Anyone who works within the bowls of the company are all to well aware of BA Spin when we see it and this is a clear example of that...and at whos peril??? The customers!

And for the record, you will not find anyone more critical of BA then ba employees for the simple reason that we have seen the same mistakes being made over and over and over again without being allowed add any input in improving things.

[red 7]

Have you ever heard of not biting the hand that feeds, or never to critcise your employer in public.
Fair enough to slag off BA with all the other girls in the galley, but I think in public is a different matter.
As for the 777, I think you will find that all major works, painting etc is severly curtailed until a replacement for ymm is found, possibly taking 2 years!
But you probably know better from your sources at BASSA etc! :bored:

[apaddyinuk]

Anonymous forum!!! Hardly public!!!

And I shall criticise BA in here as much as I do at work, my managers are more than aware of my own personal disappointments with the company and on some occassions have even agreed with me. Thats the benefit of living in a land of free speech where one can express ones opinions freely. You must sweat from infuriation everytime you log onto Pprune with all the anti-BA feeling that you must experience in here!!!

Now, I am a very strong supporter of BA and proud of the airline I work for, I am NOT proud however of the current BA management (and no,despite being a member I am not a staunch supporter of BASSA either so get off your soapbox mister!) and how they are constantly trying to undermine the real people of BA...The employees!!!

Open your eyes man and smell the coffee...not all is rosey in BA, a lot of people are very angry and what annoys me even more is that a lot of those people have every right to be, especially the passengers and front line employees. Are you a manager with BA?

[red 7]

Public forum, I think it is as public as you can get! As in anyone can join and read your complaints about your employer!
But maybe you thought I was concerned with what people thought about you :mad:

As for am I a BA manager, well some would say yes some would say no. Depends what staff groups you ask!

Being mad, disapointed, annoyed at the management and the running of BA is more than understandable, airing dirty washing in public is slightly less so, when regardless of what happens they still pay you a very good salary, as I said dont bite the hand that feeds too hard! :=

:ok:

[Hotel Mode]

Cabin Crew news is a complete waste of space for stuff like this. The people who write it are low level and certainly have no direct access to decision makers. They are not going to announce the possible cancellation on investment in it. It was just a badly written article.

Anyhow Willy said only yesterday that the 777 embodiment starts early summer and will take 18 months.

[TightSlot]

airing dirty washing in public

dont bite the hand that feeds

...are somewhat essential for the continued existence of PPRuNe, so we don't mind at all.

red 7 - I can appreciate that this can be an irritation, but remember that very few people on PPRuNe use it as a prime source of information for their views. Customers, and potential customers will make their travel decisions based upon a number of sources, including their own personal experience: PPRuNe fits in there somewhere, but is not, and should not be the primary source.

apaddyinuk may be right or wrong in this instance (I'm inclined to view his/her original, disputed post on this thread as possibly ill-informed in this case). As a general rule though, he/she makes a useful, authoritative and informed contribution on PPRuNe that develops discussion and reflects credit on his/her employer.

In short, roll with the punches - not all of them cause damage.

:)

[apaddyinuk]

Or in otherwords...And I should really learn to adopt this policy...DONT FEED THE TROLL!!!

This one is for you tightslot...

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum

[SLF3]

Posted this in December - and stand by my story. The IFE is more reliable now but nothing special, the seats still seem to be broken with monotonous regularity and still bob around like a dinghy in a gale. Since I almost never use the IFE, on balance I prefer the old seats: they are much more stable.

Have now had six sectors in the new BA Club World: are others as unimpressed as I am?

- Have not seen the entertainment system work yet
- Have been moved once (pre-boarding) because the seat was defective
- Have had two defective seats
- Seat bobs around like a dinghy in a gale as other passengers move / walk down the aisle
- Video screen fell to bits in mild turbulence
- Seat light is too small to read by, no overhead light
- Nowhere to put your glasses
- Nowhere to put your drink
- Table is not rigid, cannot write at it
- Sound seems to carry more in the cabin (hard surfaces?)

OK , it is slightly wider: but everything else about it is cheap and nasty. Discussed this with a friendly cc (they do exist) and she said the company feedback was all positive but most passengers she talked to were very unenthusiastic. What do others think?

[Seat62K]

Vibration from other passengers and crew walking down the aisle was always a problem with the original flat bed product on the upper deck. I never noticed this on the main deck or on 777s.

[apaddyinuk]

The OCW seats had a rather thick and sturdy base which held together two seats. That is why there seems to be a slight raising of the floor space under the old seats. In an effort to cut down in weight the NCW seats had this base removed and this I believe is one of the key reasons why the new seats seem so flimsy and shake around very easily!!!

[red 7]

To correct galley Fm once again,
The OCW seats had a subframe, or chassis each, whereas for weight saving the NCW shares the chassis between 2 seats or each pair.
This Is not the main reason for the movement, but does not help it , It is believed.
7

[Final 3 Greens]

SLF3

Interesting to read your comments about NCW, as I have not experienced it.

I thought that OCW was pretty good and was surprised when it was updated so relatively quickly.

[SXB]

I've now used NCW a couple of times and I would have to say that it's certainly not as good as I expected. Maybe my expectations were a little high, though in my defence most of info I received was from the marketing blitz carried out by BA.

As F3G rightly says the OCW was a very, very good product and taking a significant step forward (like Singapore have done with their new J class) was going to be difficult and extremely expensive.

When I used NCW for the first time is just left me a little underwhelmed, the general feeling I experienced was 'lowest bid syndrome' It's difficult to describe but those who've used it will know what I mean. I'm not saying it's a poor product, it certainly isn't, I was just expecting more.

[CherokeeDriver]

I used the product for the first time last week, and will use it again this week. Upper Deck 747/400.

- Have not seen the entertainment system work yet
Agreed - it was shot out of LHR and needed rebooting twice. Captain Camp (Purser) helpfully told people "NOT TO TOUCH THE SCREENS OR BUTTONS" until he had fixed it. He never told people start using the system again :=, so after 4 hours people just played with it anyway, and it worked. Content was pretty rubbish, and most people were stuck into their books / magazines by this stage.

- Have been moved once (pre-boarding) because the seat was defective
Agreed. Mine was broken, and the screen was very unpredicatable (would drop / raise randomly)

- Have had two defective seats. Doesn't surprise me.

- Seat bobs around like a dinghy in a gale as other passengers move / walk down the aisle. Didn't notice it myself - put it down to the G&T before take off!

- Video screen fell to bits in mild turbulence. Agreed. Very flimsy and can't see them lasting too long. Especially if they continue not to work and people start to get a little "agressive" with them (crew and pax alike).

- Seat light is too small to read by, no overhead light. Agreed. Light was rubbish.

- Nowhere to put your glasses - OK if you're by the window as most people use the lid of the lockers. Note to cleaners - give them a wipe over before the new PAX come on board :ugh:
- Nowhere to put your drink. Agreed. Tray is to low and easy to knock with your feet / knees.

- Table is not rigid, cannot write at it. Yep - agree - it's very flimsy and wouldn't be a good base for a laptop!

- Sound seems to carry more in the cabin (hard surfaces?). Can't comment.

Personally, this combined with the lack of wine / food I wanted will mean I will be flying Mr Bransons planes for the forseeable, as BA remains as sh1t as ever on long haul business.:mad:

[SLF3]

So its not just me. Still, the main route I fly is London - Cairo and with the winter almost over the 777 will be back soon....

[Hotel Mode]

Still, the main route I fly is London - Cairo and with the winter almost over the 777 will be back soon

No it wont. 744 Year round

[apaddyinuk]

Sadly people, crew are trying to feed these problems back to the company but we are receiving nothing but patronising comments from management about how successfully the seat has been received by our customers...you guys, who are not happy!! ODD THAT!

In a recent request to add a small drinks table to the seat a comment came back suggesting that it was not required as the current table in its folded mode was suitable and provided the required function. Also it was stated that there was no where else to place a small table anyways. When I suggest that a small table be fitted to the underside of the main table so that when it is folded away the small table could be easily folded out of it (like a number of Y class seat back tables which have a cup holder that folds from the underside when the table is stowed) I was laughed at and that "cost of designing, trialling and producing" said addition would be prohibitive!

Please please PLEASE write in. I know you are all getting fed up to the gills and perhaps feel that enough is enough, but nothing will change unless they are made blatantly aware that things are so wrong.

Over to you red7!

[VS-LHRCSA]

One of the biggest complaints we get is the middle rear facing seats and the lack of privacy between the two in the OCW config.

I'd be interested to know if there has been in improvement on this with NCW. As passengers and crew, have you noticed anything different?

[MrSoft]

Please please PLEASE write in. I know you are all getting fed up to the gills and perhaps feel that enough is enough, but nothing will change unless they are made blatantly aware that things are so wrong.

That's a shocking glimpse into an arrogant mindset; I think I will be dropping BA a line!

We must all be morons, for wanting a mini drinks tray. If you're in the sleeping position, the main tray is unuseable. So where else am I going to leave my big scotch at bedtime?

The other week on QR, I had a glass of white, a glass of champoo, and a glass of water on the go, all without needing my main table folding down; whilst watching on demand Mighty Boosh :) these are little things, but big things - I don't think I can get anywhere near this kind of rich experience with the BA product!

I am treating Mrs S long haul later this year, and have the miles to go free with BA in CW. Yet QR and EY are so much better, I might just shell out anyway to do it right. BA should be seriously worried about that. Then again I see CW full to the gills every time, no wonder management is able to delude itself!

This is all about product and nothing else; British Airways CC are still light years ahead and I feel sorry for them, forced to be front-line support for such a shonky product.

[MarlboroLite]

The first BA B777 (G-VIIY) will be off-lined to carry out the New Club World modification on May 5 2008.

The aircraft is planned to be back in service May 29, 2008.

The programme will include AVOD, new Club Seats, Club Kitchen and Microwave.

Once VIIY is kitted out with the new Club it will fly around for 3 months allowing any 'issues' like those that plagued the new cabin on the 747 to be ironed out instead of going full-steam ahead fitting aircraft with new seats only to bring them back in the hanger constantly for repairs/modifications.

I believe the same will happen when the New FIRST cabin is launched early 2009.

[k3lvc]

Just had the joys of a LHR-JFK-MAN over the last few days.

LHR-JFK 747 with NCW seated in 62K - great comfy seat with loads of space. Storage cabinets under window were great as was the addition of the laptop storage tray. Must admit I didn't miss the drinks tray until I read it on here and found the AVOD great (it worked and allowed me and Mrs K3LVC to sychronise what we were watching). Only real downside I found was seat movement as the trolley went past - there must be a slight lip in the floor which made everything shake/move.

JFK-MAN 767 with OCW seated in 2A - considerably less space/comfort but I did get a drinks tray (!) - zero storage space (underseat useless with seatbelt on) and IFE failed to work (still waiting for promised BA response to this).

Understand it was different planes and therefore enviroments but the 747 with NCW won hands down.

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi k3lvc,

I have to agree with you, CW on the Upper Deck of the 747 is an excellent seat ( and I especially like 62K- one of the best seats IMHO) ( I did have problems with AVOD on the 747 in October going to SFO)

The 777 CW does feel at times like a bit of a dormitory but still got a good nights sleep on returning from Abu Dhabi.

I get to try out 62K on my return from Vancouver in 3 weeks.

Regards

TBS

[Final 3 Greens]

Please please PLEASE write in. I know you are all getting fed up to the gills and perhaps feel that enough is enough, but nothing will change unless they are made blatantly aware that things are so wrong.


Sorry Paddy, I understand your frustration, but BA have repeatedly treated me shoddily in the past few years and there are plenty of carriers out there who understand how to handle premium pax.

I still can't get over the sense of being let down when arriving at BRU, finding my case broken on the carousel and the ground staff unwilling/unable to give any assistance further than a number in Paris to call. When calling that number, nothing could be done until I returned to the UK.

As they say, as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

That for me was the tipping point - oh, I should mention that I had paid GBP 444 for a club ticket.

I now use BA as an airline of last resort, along with Ryanair and spemd my long haul euros with Lufthansa and Emirates.

Their seats may not be as good as club world, but what does this matter if you are constanty faced with strikes, poor service, baggage losses etc?

As a business traveller, my main concern is for a reliable service that makes life as easy as possible.

[annnee]

I'm flying from Heathrow to Newark return next month and wanted to know if all planes on this route have been fitted out with the NCW yet?

If not, which is rated best - OCW or NCW?

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Have just completed our first time in BA Club [formerly used Virgin then MaxJet], LHR-IAD and return out of T4 [and bus to the aircraft, FFS, as premium pax :oh:]. Overall rating moderate, and I believe most of my comments have been noted before ...

1. Upper deck 747, with Mrs in the window seat ... so she could just squeeze through the gap by the cabin wall to get out instead of climbing over a sleeping stranger in the aisle seat in the next row :(

2. Service to window seat poor .. as noted on page 1, the CC tend to miss them out [still ].

3. When will any airline get CC to clean up as they pass ... accumulated debris everywhere, permanently ignored.

4. My aisle seat shook when people passed [whilst trying to sleep, unsuccessfully, on a rather narrow bed]. And, yes, the table is wobbly ... that's part of the IFE, I think ;)

5. Her IFE was initially sick ... and was sharply told by "Stroppy Young Cow" not to touch it while they tried to fix it. Probably the rudest and most ineffectual CC we've even encountered.

6. IFE moderate ... why is it full of American stuff produced for a 20-yo audience with a matching IQ?

7. Food OK, but massively heavy and [IMO] over-generous. Alternative food options not mentioned when taking orders. And I don't expect pudding to be served on the tray at the outset ... FFS, this is supposed to be a premium service.

8. CC service ... how hard is it for two CC to cope with 20 pax on the top deck? Could they take any sort of interest in their pax, like the MaxJet people used to do? Service quality was just like economy, really.

9. Oh, yes, and the almost useless reading light ... ;)

Design and quality of service ... about 6/10, bordering on 7.
Will we use them again? Probably, but with about as much enthusiasm as being offered being decapitated by an axe or a sword.

[tgdxb]

Maybe this is the opportunity to lash out my long time frustration at BA. Up to the point that I now do the minimum flying to reach the 800 exec points keeping me gold, and then switch back to my preferred airline(s).
BA has become the most un-customer centric airline I have been flying. I have tens of examples, but don't want to bother my fellow travelers paying like me big bucks when traveling premium.
I will only point 2 of them:
- a complimentary class upgrade for 2 after reaching 2,000 exec points which I tried to use--unsuccessfully!!!--5 times over a period of 18 months. There was always a good reason to decline or to offer me the impossible alternative date!!!:D
- meal service that is highly under par, both in C & F. I recommend BA to ga & try CX, SA, 9W.
Guys, I have made my choice. BA really do not care.

[Seat62K]

A few questions for the experts: Club World seating is eight across on both the 747 (main deck) and 777. I think I am right in thinking that the 777 cabin is not as wide as the 747's. Does this mean, then, that Club seats on the 777 are narrower than those on the 747 (I understand that each Club seat is made for its individual location and that it will not necessarily fit elsewhere) or is it simply that the aisles are less wide on the 777? Or am I wrong in my assumption about fuselage width?
This has intrigued me for a number of years and wonder if there is anyone out there who knows the answer!