Aurigny Air Services [Archive]

GBALU53

6th Nov 2006, 16:50

That is interesting to hear although only from a bar talking point about BAE146s.

The CAA dont like small companies having to many types on the AOC but if the shed goes that would only replace it.

Titan has been called in a number of times today being one of them and it is not a bad aircraft for the longer route Aurigny operate LGW MAN and STN
keep the Trislanders inter island and Alderney Southampton and the ATR fleet can go out and get some new routes there must be a nuber up for grabs.

This could be the nest big expansion in the Aurigny Calender.

Especially if Flybe Connect are unable to get the Emb 195 operating in and out of Guernsey it would be a blow for them but could well be good for Aurigny if the Bae146 rumour is true.:ok: :ok:

Manston Airport

13th Nov 2006, 15:22

GBALU53

Did Aurigny have a Lsd BAe 146 from titan once before? and is that the new name for Flybe Flybe Connect:confused: I think Aurigny could add more new routes like NCL and EDI etc

James

GBALU53

13th Nov 2006, 16:46

They have used the Bae146 on a number of occasions when they have had tech ATRs.

I think the Summer of 2005 for July and August they had the aircraft doing schedule flights for the July and August operating Stansted-Guernsey-Manchester-Guernsey-Stansted for the weekends.

MaryGa

20th Nov 2006, 12:23

The Shed's going off line because it would have to get EGPWS to be able to continue after the 31st of December 2006 due to CAA regulation.

More ATRs are coming both on the Air Wales owned Aurigny operated 42s charter program that will be based in Southend and in GCI/JER to have one more ATR 72 to turn in maintenance and do more flying when needed.

The fact that Bae 146 have been wet leased on occasions to fulfill needs on the line when some aircraft had gone tech is not a sign that Aurigny would start a 146 operation.

The Bae 146 is an old machine now, it is not as fuel efficient as the ATR... far from it! And most of the 146 existing are going to be sent to recycling to build cans of soda in few years time at Flybe! (they are progressively replaced there by Embraer jets as the RJX program was abandoned)

Just a comparison that speaks for itself.... One hour of ATR is 600kg of fuel...
One hour of CRJ (modern regional jet, unlike the 146...) is around 2000 kg of fuel....

That's why ATR's so successfull and that's why a government of a banking country like GCI will not diperse its investments in types of machines that would prove being too expensive to run on its vital links to England.

But of course anyone could add good arguments to this!
What's bad about the ATR?

noflybywire

20th Nov 2006, 13:59

Expressflight

20th Nov 2006, 14:39

What exactly is behind Aurigny's "charter programme that will be based in Southend"?

It seems odd to use your AOC to operate two aircraft (one pax, one freighter) which wear the fully livery of a defunct airline (Air Wales) and which are marketed by a third party (Flightline) who will also supply the cabain crew. What does Aurigny really get out of this arrangement? If they wanted to expand their charter ops and establish a London-area base, why not run it as a full-on Aurigny operation?

The Flying Cokeman

20th Nov 2006, 14:58

Noflybywire,

Saying it's crap in crosswind is abolutely NOT true.
Having flown on the ATR all series for nearly 4000 hours I have to say that the ATR is in fact very good in cross wind.
Of those types I've flown I would anytime prefer the ATR when the crosswind exceeds 40kts.
By the way the new 500's are not noisy at all.

Point 3 however I agree with.

TFCM

GBALU53

21st Nov 2006, 16:27

The Flying Coke Man

The Aircraft design is not the best for crosswinds for starters narrow track undercarriage.

The wing design is shaped similar to the shorts design like a plank of wood.

When the aircraft is on the ground and you are in the aircraft when there is strong winds it feels like you are on the high seas in a force ten gale it rocks a lot due to the narrow undercarriage.

tyfilou

24th Nov 2006, 19:06

Three for starters

1. Crap in crosswinds
2. Noise
3. Turboprops are seen by most punters as old and outdated

The 146 is a superb aircraft and if you ask most pax they would rather see 4 jets then 2 old! props.

p.s I have flown an ATR 42

1. Who is crap in crosswinds? It's easy to point at the plane!

2. It's certainly not as bad as a Trislander and people using Aurigny being used to the Tri have invested in earplugs since a long time. + for a 1 hour Journey it's allright for the service and price you get.

At least Aurigny on special circumstances tries to get you to your destination which is not always easy in foggy weather like in Guernsey... I've seen holding trying to get to GUR for 2 hours... then getting to JER... transfering pax to hotel and trying again next morning and finally getting everybody in GUR as soon as it was possible... while other having travelled with another company were still at the departure point and had to pay for there own hotel...
This is typical of what a Guernsey vital link to UK should be... certainly not a cheap service... but just the best service for a reasonable price... all made possible by day after day fuel efficiency provided by ATR!

3. Turboprops are seen by most investors as a fuel efficient good alternative to jets on regional routes... And Guernsey is an Investors and Banker country.
Not a country of young inexperienced pilots willing to get on a Top Gun machine... Yeah you know what i'm talking about! That old Matcho thing... bigger noiser but hey... that's a Jet so that's better so let's kill the old prop thing cause it doesn't fit with my Top gun leather flying jacket with my little sunglasses! Let's be honest one second: ATR is a compromise offering cost efficient fuel efficient solutions. Dash 8 Q400 is another compromise... not as good on short hopper hauls but all right for bit longer flights eventhough it's too much fuel burn for me on a less than a hour flight time.

Comment about Ps: you talk you've flown the ATR 42... well you know they improved a bit on the Noise aspect for the 72.... and the 72-500 is even better!

By the way... i flew the 42 5 days or 6 days a week for quite a while and i fly the 72 now and my earing is still perfect... some guys tell me the ATRs are noisy and put the full audio bass booster system in the cars... I quite don't believe in the quality of the earing they have!

GBALU53

24th Nov 2006, 21:00

FougaMagister

24th Nov 2006, 23:48

I'm with tyfilou on this: in the age of fuel surcharges and oil at US$60 per barrell, turboprops will have the last laugh! :E

Cheers :cool:

kuningan

26th Nov 2006, 16:43

This SLF is perfectly happy with the ATR - beats Flybe's cramped 146 on the run to LGW - and is only about 5~10 minutes slower. Aurigny also seem to be first on the ground in the event of fog - you can usually count on them getting in ahead of flybe (and well ahead of BA when they used to operate). Sitting behind a Trislander pilot one day I complimented her on her nifty cross-wind landing - she smiled and said 'I get lots of practice!'

tyfilou

26th Nov 2006, 17:32

tyfilou comments
For someone to come from so far away and have outstanding support for Aurigny seem strange.
The airline has over the years gone through many a time warp, and are still in one on some occasions, the apron strings still seem attached to the northern rock, the locals know where that is, but for the outsiders will have to work that one out.
The Channel Islands have seen many an opperator with the flying baguette coming down the approach with a good cross wind and the landing looks interesting.
Jersey had two ATR72s based for a number of years and when they were operating in crosswinds compared to there U.K. based counter parts you would see they could handlle the aircraft better as they would be doing more cross wind landings by being based in the Channel Islands than the rest of there company pilots.
We also understand that the company is trying to source another ATR72 for the new year this must have something to do with the end of the Shed in the Channel Islands??

Well maybe i'm a normand that went a bit outside of normandy to get back to it.... You know just to get out a bit and look at the world and get valuable experience around our big rocky planet... not to stay looking at your own chain to the local northern rock... it gave me a bit of open minded culture about people coming from other cultures! You should try it as it helps to start and enjoy the people around... just breathe by the nose cause after all xenophobia starts at your own doorstep with no welcome mat but it's never too late to put a good one there!:ok:
And you know... aicrafts make you travel and meet people around and sometimes change of horizon quickly from the inuits to the africans to the asian and then back home and i enjoyed them all... (more or less but mainly positively.)

The arrival of a new ATR 72 in Aurigny is needed by the amount of flying and the need for one ATR to roll out of the hangar when another one rolls in to give a bit of air to the maintenance guys that are doing a fantastic job to keep it going safely but could not do more and keep the pace on the next buisy summer season.

noflybywire

28th Nov 2006, 09:42

Spoken like a EGJB 'Donkey':D :D :D .LOL,

GBALU53

28th Nov 2006, 10:34

tyfilu

You stated they need a spare aircraft as one comes out the hangar another goes in.

Maybe you have not got the full picture so lets show you a bit more of it.

One ATR72 does the Jersey-Bournemouth-Jersey mail at least five nights a week.

The aircraft departs Jersey approx 1940 and returns 0530 the following mirning a normally sits on the ground all day for fourteen hours unless it needs to position to Guernsey to pick up another ATR schedules due unserviabilty.

Is this a good commercial operation having an aircraft on the ground for so long or is it another one of M.H. mail contracts that we must not use the aircraft, does the S of G know what is happening with there airline, do they get the full picture.

I am not an accountant but an aircraft like that I would think should be doing day flying with four to six sectors at least.

Once the Shorts 360 goes at the end of this year things might change and they may use the mail ATR to do a morning Jersey to Guernsey sector and Guernsey-Jersey late afternoon so would do some sectors out of Guernsey during the day good commercial idea??

fudpucker

28th Nov 2006, 12:29

Whatever one's opinion of MH he is financially very astute. Under normal circumstances I would expect to see a short-haul a/c being operated for 9 ~10 hours per day to be profitable. I would imagine that the contract is sufficiently lucrative that this is not a 'must' in this instance. In any case, are you sure that the aircraft sits there all day every day? I'm sure the S of G are pretty much in the picture and are happy (ish) with their investment.

tyfilou

29th Nov 2006, 15:12

The aircraft sitting on the ground in Jersey "all day" is brought back to guernsey for additional flights during summer season on the passenger routes.... and is there as a standby aircraft when problems happens with the other 2 ones...

and in winter, the cargo is not only to Bournemouth at night... a bit more than that in fact... and yes it must be lucrative!

GBALU53

9th Dec 2006, 07:58

Well Stepclimb Interesting it is

iInteresting to look at that web sight, it tells a lot of information, the web site is www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/

Some of the articles stated, they are about to get another ATR72-500, if they get the Jersey- Bournemouth mail contract renewed and hopefully the Guernsey-Bournemouth one , they will be getting two more ATR72s.

From what I have picked up in conversation that Aurigny was interested in Air Atlantiques ATR72 G-HERM which is a passenger aircraft, it has air stairs in the front door so no good for freighting?? this might tie in with the interest by having talks to get the Jersey-Stansted back??

With Air Contractors going into the bigger capicity market with Boeing 737QC aircraft, it does seem there ATR fleet will be going and opening several doors out of Bournemouth for the Mail contracts and possible the four times a week freight runs down to the Islands.

Interesting times ahead for the Channel Islands Airline and not opening a big river to swim in??

GBALU53

12th Dec 2006, 14:00

Aurigny are to start the Jersey-Dinard service again in the new year.:ok:

Would have at a guess the start of the Summer schedules.:ok:

Do not know yet on times or how often anyone have any ides??:ok:

It would only be a Trislander but thats better than nothing.

Jerbourg

21st Dec 2006, 07:11

Aurigny are to embark on another round of cost cutting. The JER ticket desk is marked for closure in the very near future - Jan has been mentioned. Also rumoured around JER & GCI is the total closure of inter island routes. If this company cannot make money on these routes then the management should be sacked & a new team bought in who can. Remember, it is the Guernsey tax payer who owns this airline & deserves a return.

GBALU53

21st Dec 2006, 20:15

Is there not a combination of things going on??

The ticket desk needs to go, due to the changes of the Jersey Airport departure hall security changes, with the ticket desk being part of a refreshment outlet??

The ticket desk will be relocated to one of the check in desks??

There seems to be a lot of changes going on at the moment with Aurigny?

There is talk going on that they are taking on the Dinard route again??

Would some of these rumours to the demise of the ticket desk point to the company heading towards a tickless airline??

Jerbourg

21st Dec 2006, 20:39

Would some of these rumours to the demise of the ticket desk point to the company heading towards a tickless airline??

Yes, Aurigny will be ticketless by spring, but that doesn't mean you have to give up your ticket desk. Flybe, Easyjet, Ryanair are all ticketless airlines but still retain sales desks at airports....

welkyboy

21st Dec 2006, 21:11

The real reason for closing the ticket desk is the Airport authorities will be using the area concerned for a new coffee bar and toilets when they revamp the terminal. The entry to security search area will be moved close to the check-in desks. The ticket desk is in the way and there is no where else to put it!! The staff will be ticketing from the check-in area and also using an office airside for online and fax bookings.

Matt Vinyl

21st Dec 2006, 23:02

GBALU53 makes a very good point there.
Aurigny's main competitor on the inter-Island route doesn't have a ticket desk and they are going from strength to strength.
Perhaps It's just a sign of the times, rather than impending doom.
I do feel for the people who may lose their jobs though.:hmm:

Jerbourg

22nd Dec 2006, 15:54

I do feel for the people who may lose their jobs though.:hmm:

Will lose their jobs.

GBALU53

25th Dec 2006, 07:58

GCIJ32

1st Jan 2007, 13:44

New Year Questions

Has AURIGNY been successful and got the two mail contract for next year??:)

Will they also be after the Paper contract to the islands with Air Contractors ATR fleet dwindling??:ok:

There has been talk of another ATR72 about to join the company is this going to be the Atlantic aircraft G-HERM when it finishes on the 15th of January when the Stansted service finishes??:)

This aircraft should be operating down in the islands as one of the smaller Channel Islands is HERM which is just off the east coast of Guernsey.:)

Lets hear some good news for all in the Islands instead of doom and gloom. like the weather,:ok: :ok:

I think the gloom and doom will continue for Aurigny, it seems they haven't got any of those extra contracts they were after, but lost them instead, maybe this won't be Aurigny's year but another Airline's year in the Channel Islands maybe one with a "welcome difference"..... need i say more?

GBALU53

1st Jan 2007, 14:51

This mornings daily papers down to the Islands were by Atlantic ATPs so no luck there by the look of it, for Aurigny getting the Paper contract.

From what I can make out the daily newspapers were on the same aircraft as the mail as a combined charter so is this the same with the Atlantic ATP?

If so no Aurigny mail into Guernsey.

This afternoon the is a positioning flight out of Guernsey for the early moning flight down to Jersey tomorrow but how long will this be happening.

The Jersey mail contract might not have been fully dealt with so there might be hope there although it is pointing out to be a Atlantic Electra that might be doing this in the not to distant future.

If all this is correct the new year is not looking very good.

five zero by ortac

1st Jan 2007, 21:20

More hot rumours flying yesterday about Aurigny's inter-island services going Blue. Anybody heard anything ?

GCIJ32

1st Jan 2007, 21:52

More hot rumours flying yesterday about Aurigny's inter-island services going Blue. Anybody heard anything ?

No haven' heard anything, but I have noticed that this week Aurigny only have 6 flights a day between Guernsey and Jersey whereas BlueIslands are up to their full schedule each day.

GBALU53

2nd Jan 2007, 10:52

Would the States of Guernsey be preparred to sell off the inter Island flight to Blueislands?

What is making money for the company the ATR fleet with a little help from the Trislander fleet?

Trislanders are getting a bit long in the tooth, when Aurigny operated the Twin Otter is was a step forward but not viable inter islands, the shed came on the scene and now dropped for a number of reasons, so the very big question is tis he inter islands worth keeping hold of??

With the dissapontment of not getting some of the contracts that they were going for will they be dropping the idea of getting three more ATRs two were for the mail contracts plus one other.

Jerbourg

2nd Jan 2007, 19:40

With the dissapontment of not getting some of the contracts that they were going for will they be dropping the idea of getting three more ATRs two were for the mail contracts plus one other.

I think the answer has to be yes!

GCIJ32

2nd Jan 2007, 20:47

Considering recent events, Aurigny may as well take over Titan as it seems their aircraft are used far more than Aurigny's own ATR's. Aurigny do not seem to be cutting it anymore in the Channel Islands, I would still choose them (provided the flight is cheaper or the same price) over FlyBE on the UK routes, but now even if the price is higher, would much rather fly BlueIslands Inter-Island, much more comfortable and the staff offer a much more personal service. But FlyBE now that is a joke!! Aurigny all the way on UK routes!!

GBALU53

21st Feb 2007, 07:40

Picked this little number up yesterday Aurigny will be getting two ATR 72 500 to operate on the currant schedule network especially on the Gatwick to compete with the Dash of Flymaybe.

If this is correct this will release the other two ATR 72s that operate these schedule and go and start doing new routes out of the Islands??

One of the routes could be the Jersey-Leeds that Britich Midland dropped a number of years back due to Thompson and Doncaster another route was the reintroduction of the Jersey-Stansted.

This could be all pie in the Sky we will have to wait and see.

I also understand there is connections between Aurigny-Ex Air Wales and Flightline management some thing like buddies together, so the connection with the two little ATR42s becomes some what clearer in the picture.

five zero by ortac

17th May 2007, 07:00

I nearly choked on my cornflakes this morning. On the local radio news they say that Aurigny made a profit last year ! Half a mil.
Anyone got any more info ? Well done Aurigny staff.

fudpucker

17th May 2007, 08:53

So, that's half a mil profit to AAS and Blue Island made...?

GBALU53

17th May 2007, 09:52

Was the person interviewed and accountant or was it Mr H himself being a state owned they have to say to joe and his public look how good we are performing we mad so and so profit.
What about the staff that were put down the road could they tell a differant story which could be more correct?
Was the half million due to the mail contract?
There is no mail contract now this year they have cut back on a lot of staff in Jersey some to do with no mail contract and the other there is no ticket desk is this due to a lot more people using the internet to do bookinks?
The number of flights on some days have been cut back, is this due to the Blueislands Jersey-Guernsey-Jersey operation?
Interesting article in a local airport paper stating that interisland traffic increased by 12 percent has all the extra traffic gone to Blueislands?
Aurigny lost some big business when a certain company bought two Cessna Caravan aircraft one for freight and the other a passenger one to move there Managers between the islands which they do two or three flight a day monday to friday,these passenger used Aurigny up untill 18 months or so ago.

fudpucker

17th May 2007, 15:04

I doubt if anyone would get away with lying about making a profit for very long..... and Blue Island's profit/loss was... ? The point is you cannot make money running J31's inter-island and there's absolutely no point in wittering on about getting new aircraft and new routes if you're haemoraging (spelling, sorry) money with the old ones. Unfortunately there is no viable replacement for the Trislanders and Viscounts/Daks are museum pieces and cost an arm and a leg to operate.
Oh well, it all makes for interesting electronic debate but you still come back to the fact that there is a limited market in the CI and always will be. Incidentally there comes a point where if you as a company are spending a small fortune on airfares, it becomes viable to operate your own aircraft, particularly if you want to shift a lot of fresh produce around and there is limited freight capacity available.

lotman1000

18th May 2007, 17:33

The "profit" announced for Aurigny Air Services has to be looked at in the context of the whole group. With the two companies, AAS and ANAE, in the group, figures can be manipulated/spun how you like. AAS is charged by ANAE for work done; reduce the price for that and AAS profit goes up while ANAE loss increases, and vv. All legitimate stuff, but designed to obscure the real results.

The overall profit of the group is about half the announced profit, ie around £250K, and is a pathetic, virtually nil, return on the group turnover.

Manipulating depreciation is another way of reducing/increasing "proft", usually employed to minimise tax.

Ignore the upbeat publicity and look at the facts. The Aurigny Group is a financial basket case.

Expressflight

19th May 2007, 07:10

Is the Air Wales ATR-42 G-SSEA still due to join sistership G-CDFF at SEN on Aurigny's AOC?

welkyboy

19th May 2007, 07:26

Thats the plan, but it still languishes at GCI alongside the shed G-BPFN which was damaged in gales during the winter, they are both awaiting spares and space in hanger to start work on them.

welkyboy

19th May 2007, 07:28

That should read"hangar",, before the correctors wake up!!!!

Capot

8th Jun 2007, 15:30

Re Aurigny's announcement that it wants its owner, the Guernsey Government, to underwrite £19,000,000 worth of commercial loan so that it can buy more aircraft.
Channel News:-
Aurigny want Guernsey's States to act as guarantors on a loan of nearly 19 million pounds so it can buy new planes.
The company says it needs the two ATR 72-500s to replace older leased aircraft.
Aurigny was bought by the States in 2003.
It isn't asking taxpayers to stump up the money, but will instead borrow in the private sector.
If the money is borrowed commercially, but guaranteed by the Government, the lender has no risk whatsoever, while Guernsey States has ALL the risk. So it has to make provisions for this future possible/probable liability, and that ties up the taxpayers cash which cannot, under normal accounting rules, be used elsewhere. It must be kept in reserve, and if not Guernsey States may well be facing bankruptcy, in accounting terms.
So that's £19m worth of public service priorities taking second place to a very high-risk investment indeed. And if Aurigny gets into trouble, that's up to £19m, plus all the other money sunk into Aurigny (£10m+?), flushed down the pan. About £500 per taxpayer in Guernsey, I suspect, perhaps a lot more, and I'm one of them.
It's pure spin, worthy of Gordon Brown who does exactly the same with PFI schemes, to pretend that a guarantee by a Government is not using taxpayers money, by putting it at risk.
Let's hope that people in Guernsey are not taken in by this piece of b******t.
And then there is the little matter of fair competition; how can anyone compete with an airline that's funded in this way from the public purse. The loan will be much cheaper than on a commercial basis, precisely because there is no risk to the lender, while the risk is carried by taxpayers at no cost to Aurigny.

GBALU53

8th Jun 2007, 20:14

Is there more to come out of this?
Getting rid of two ATR72s which are Ex Gill Air if I remberber, and who was tied with Gill Air when the plug was pulled not the leasing company?
To replace them with newer ones is a good idea but who is behind the leasing companies?
Would the Guernsey States be the leasing company.

Jerbourg

9th Jun 2007, 19:48

It appears to me that Aurigny want to buy the aircraft,(I smell a rat in that option) with the Guernsey States (Government) acting as guarantors on the loan -Not a good idea. Surely leasing would be a better option, although I would think a leasing company without in-house connections would be more favourable to the electorate.

G-JECL

10th Jun 2007, 16:53

Ok Aurigny's existing ATR's are awful, constantly going tech but why on earth do they need to buy two completely brand new ones. The states will eaither agree to this and Aurigny and the Island will go bust, or they'll put Aurigny up for sale (I think the second option is the best).

lotman1000

13th Jun 2007, 17:51

£19m - ie US$37m or so?

For 2 ATR's?

Who's kidding whom?

What's the real story?

Feet on ground

14th Jun 2007, 12:54

Surely the risk is not the full value of the loan, it's the value of the loan less the residual values of the aircraft secured/mortgaged against the loan?

hyatt_1_alpha

14th Jun 2007, 18:16

It's strange to see the States of Guernsey inviting competition from airlines to start new air services into/out of GCI.

Just a thought, but why doesn't the Guernsey government invest more money into Aurigny to kick start some triangular routes (via JSY) into nearby Europe as well as some into the UK. Crossair used to operate a successful ZRH service on that basis.

Alternatively, perhaps Aurigny could be sold to another operator who understands how to run an airline profitably. Governments aren't best placed to run commercial enterprises and at the present time Mr H and his team are to an extent, hands-tied.

Either, or. But set it free and let it fly!

I'm curious to know who the relevant Deputy is who might have the main say in seeling the company. Does anyone know?

Brighter horizons all............

Flyingvisitor

17th Feb 2008, 07:36

Not very likely. They tried to expand their route network a few years ago and cut it right down again. If even GCI-AMS didn't work (despite AMS being such a major hub) I very much doubt they'd try destinations further afield. Guernsey doesn't get an awful lot of visitors from outside the UK, and with a population of all of 40,000 there isn't enough of a local market to fill lots of flights.

kuningan

21st Feb 2008, 09:24

with a population of all of 40,000 there isn't enough of a local market to fill lots of flights.

Two thirds right - its 65,000 - but still not a lot. One factor that might offer international routes more opportunities are the forthcoming changes to UK Tax residence rules - before April 6 2008, a two day transit via the UK did not count towards Tax residence - after then, it will count as two days - and the local finance boys are worrying that they could easily become tax resident in the UK.....

cavortingcheetah

21st Feb 2008, 15:35

:hmm:

This is what has got them all so worried.......

Taxman to swoop on non-dom’s daily grind
By Jean Eaglesham and Vanessa Houlder in London

Published: February 19 2008 22:03 | Last updated: February 19 2008 22:03

Business travellers tempted to grab a quick coffee with a contact between flights should beware the tax inspector if they are among the thousands who enjoy the benefits of not being classed as a UK resident.

From April, HM Revenue & Customs will extend its remit to airport lounges as part of a series of tax reforms that include the contentious clampdown on non-domiciled residents.

When draft legislation for the new measures was published in January, the government initially said the days people spent travelling in and out of the UK would count towards the 91 days that qualify visitors as UK residents, making them liable for UK tax unless travellers stayed “airside” in parts of the airport not accessible to non-travellers.

However, after business lobbyists claimed the measure was too harsh, the Revenue came up with a partial reprieve. HMRC officials told tax advisers in meetings last week that anyone simply in transit through the UK would not have that day counted towards the 91-day tally, even if they left one airport and traveled to catch a plane at another.

But there is a sting in the tail. The Revenue says the reprieve will apply only if no work is done in the UK on the day in question.

“The example they give is of someone landing at Heathrow and then fitting in a meeting before catching a later flight from Gatwick,” said Andrew Tailby-Faulkes, a partner at Ernst & Young. But, he says: “What if you have a quick meeting with a colleague in Starbucks? Does sending e-mails from a laptop breach the new guidelines? And how will the rule be policed effectively?”

A Treasury spokesman said: “We are aware of the potential issues for some transit passengers and are considering this as part of the consultation.”

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The short answer is that the days of the financial adviser leaving the Channel Islands for the England on a Monday morning and returning on a Wednesday evening and logging the three days in the UK as one day are over. It remains to be seen what this does to the business passenger figures on Aurigny and anyone else operating a schedule between the Channel Islands and the UK.
One thing is for certain though and that is that the burden of proof will be upon the executive to prove that he did not conduct any form of business during his transit through the UK. Given that HMRC now have almost unlimited powers to tap into electronic correspondence and telephone lines, silence during transit is going to be the watchword.:yuk:

jetstreamtechrecords

26th Feb 2008, 12:40

Aurigny are offering an ATR 42 and an ATR 72 for long term lease from April. What'll they run the thier schedule with if these go? back to SAAB 340?

Jerbourg

26th Feb 2008, 15:05

No back up then?
More revenue for Titan!

five zero by ortac

26th Feb 2008, 16:02

Can't run the summer schedule with 2 x ATR72's. Need 3 !!!
So which route is to go ? :eek:

GBALU53

26th Feb 2008, 16:04

Is the there any HEART left in the company, things seem to be slipping away?
It does seem very strange to put an ATR72 and 42 for lease when the company does need at least half an aircraft as back up.
Will Aurigny be drawing in on some of the schedules for the summer with only 2 ATR72s to keep going all summer?
The Trislanders are no good to back up an unservicable ATR on the routes they operate, it has been know for the Trislander to do the Bristol before now.

G-JECL

26th Feb 2008, 16:25

According to the Aurigny website, the summer schedule is merely a continuation of the winter one with regards to Guernsey-UK services, The GCI-MAN remains at twice daily and not three times as last summer, and there seems to be no extra flights to BRS or STN, the current winter schedule only requires two ATR 72's, however you do need to take into account that Aurigny's ATR's are getting on a bit now, and go tech very often. So should the two aircraft be taken on, they would have no back up. So Titan/Flightline, prepare yourselves for a fair few Guernsey flights in the coming months, its always nice to see a Titan 146 or 737 land in Guernsey.

IOMspotter

26th Feb 2008, 17:27

do aurigny still operate the Air wales ATR as a back up. We often see it up here backing up EuroManx. :ooh:

Jerbourg

26th Feb 2008, 19:37

Yes, the "Wales" liveried ATR42 G-CDFF is often to be seen operating for an tech 72. The Other 42 G-SSEA has been in the hangar for sometime so it may be the one going out on lease.....

I heard a few months back that there were to be fewer flights to BRS & MAN this summer compared to last.

virginblue

26th Feb 2008, 20:00

When are the new -500s expected? Maybe they will get them before the leases of the -200s expire, hence the leasing out.

Jerbourg

27th Feb 2008, 09:07

2010 if I remember corectly................

Jerbourg

27th Feb 2008, 10:17

I had to fly Aurigny to Jersey on Monday & I have to say the customer service is very poor. Staff chatting to one another about going for a smoke while I was being dealt with made me feel like I was a nuisance & not at all as Malcolm Hart writes in the latest in flight mag......

QUOTE " all our passengers are made to feel special" UNQUOTE

A lot of the staff here look shabby & have no pride in their appearance, that in itself is a reflection of a very tired & run down business, were no one seems to care. Back to Blue for my next interisland trip.

virginblue

27th Feb 2008, 13:18

jerbourg,

did a quick search and indeed it is 2010, so my initial thoguth was not exactly spot-on. However, as only two -500s sre on order, I was wondering if this is Aurigny's long-term plan - 2 large turboprops and that's it.

GBALU53

27th Feb 2008, 13:28

virginblue

Where does this put the Trislander Fleet?

Will there be a Trislander Fleet for 2010?

Need something to operate the bit of Inter Islander that BCI has not got as yet, and the Alderney-Southampron route.

fudpucker

27th Feb 2008, 14:48

The Tris will probably be staggering on long after Blue Island have pulled out of Alderney and got fed up with losing money running Jetstreams between GCI & JER. I don't understand the references to 'leasing out' an ATR 42, Aurigny don't have any to lease out. They operate them on behalf of the owner.

Jerbourg

27th Feb 2008, 16:00

FUDPUCKER - Ever heard of "sub leases?" They are quite common in the aviation industry & I know AURIGNY subleased a '72 to Flybe for 3 months at the end of last year!:D

Geo73

27th Feb 2008, 17:42

virginblue

When the order was placed for the 2 new ATR72-500's Aurigny stated that one of the 200's would be kept for charter work.

GR600

27th Feb 2008, 18:14

TN is bad
DA and DB are Sh:mad:t !
Those rubishes should NOT fly anymore, not even in Russia or Africa :yuk:

Panja

28th Feb 2008, 08:25

Just a thought, but if Aurigny go with the ATR72-500, doesn't it hold eight more seats at the expense of the forward hold? I know they struggle to carry all the baggage on a full MAN-GCI flight now, so a smaller hold means only one thing; They're going to start charging for hold baggage?
Something that they vilified Flybe for when they started doing it..

quazz

28th Feb 2008, 11:11

And you came to that conclusion how?

fudpucker

28th Feb 2008, 11:25

The same way a lot of people on this forum come to conclusions. Head firmly inserted up back passage and the hell with any logical thinking!:}

Jerbourg

28th Feb 2008, 15:34

Panja - you are correct in your thoughts about the new aircraft having less hold space. Baggage is going to be left behind on busy days ....

GR600

28th Feb 2008, 18:22

What makes them so 'bad' and '****'?

Care to expand on your comments?

Age, poor maintenance, and some crappy FOs doing bad landings.

ajdm

29th Feb 2008, 07:20

So I take it you won't fly in an Auroflot ATR then GR600?

Panja

29th Feb 2008, 12:16

In response to quazz, it's simple mathematics. They can't fit all the bags in now with the extra hold capacity, they'll have 8 extra passengers and less room to accomodate baggage. Charging for baggage will encourage what passengers they have left to carry hand luggage only.

kuningan

1st Mar 2008, 13:53

A lot of the staff here look shabby & have no pride in their appearance, that in itself is a reflection of a very tired & run down business, were no one seems to care.

We must fly on a different Aurigny - when I fly to the mainland (couple of times a month) I generally find the ground and on-board Aurigny staff friendly, helpful and well turned out........and I do not miss the 3x3 seating on the flybe 146.........

SEN SPY

10th Mar 2008, 14:11

i am sure if you didnt fly them you wouldnt moan. Jog on you shed pilot.....

jetstreamtechrecords

18th Jul 2008, 10:39

Im told Aurigny are claiming a £250,000 profit last year. Anyone know if that includes non trading profits (like profit on sale of written off S360) AND MARKETING CONTRIBUTIONS FROM GUERNSEY TOURISM..:}

Jerbourg

19th Jul 2008, 19:00

Is a £250,000.00 profit on a turnover of £30m someting to be proud about, I don't actually know, can somebody enlighten me (The Taxpayer)?

kuningan

25th Jul 2008, 22:08

Is a £250,000.00 profit on a turnover of £30m someting to be proud about, I don't actually know, can somebody enlighten me (The Taxpayer)?

Given the old maxim that 'The fastest way to make £1million in the airline business is to start with £2million...'.....at least its not a loss.....and some of us may view their year-round operations a service......unlike FlyMAYbe's 'we can't be bothered'.....

Specky

1st Aug 2008, 19:44

Easy to keep the customer satisfied when the States of GCI are chucking taxpayers' money at you. Flybe have to stand on their own two feet and still make money.

quazz

6th Aug 2008, 16:21

Boo hoo poor little flybe...oh wait aren't they europes largest regional airline?
Backed by an exceptionally wealthy family? Somehow I think the Walkers have more money to put into flybe than the states of guernsey have to put into aurigny!

uncovered

7th Aug 2008, 13:10

Flybe ceremoniously paid back the last Few million of what the trust had invested in May of this year. I saw a big staff newsletter on it from one of the flight crew. Wonder in which Millenium Aurigny will pay back the States.

Feet on ground

7th Aug 2008, 16:53

Pay back the States what?

What money has Aurigny received from the States?

fredtheanorak

10th Aug 2008, 17:20

The purchase of Aurigny was paid for with States taxpayers money.;)

blueplume

10th Aug 2008, 18:37

Plus all the rest. See other threads ad nauseam.....

Feet on ground

11th Aug 2008, 08:29

When you buy a business you do so for the value that that business can generate for you, that doesn't always mean hard cash. The States bought Aurigny for the four pairs of Gatwick slots, and to protect the life line routes into the Guernsey.

Can you imagine how much more would have been spent (by the people and businesses of Guernsey) on air travel to/from Guernsey over the last five years if Aurigny were not there providing competition to flybe and Blue islands?

A lot more than the States has invested in Aurigny.

kuningan

8th Nov 2008, 15:02

Aurigny lost £1million in the first 8 months of 2008 - fuel costs and maintaining the ageing ATRs are blamed. Flybe's response is highly predictable.....so why don't the Guernsey government just sell out to Flybe so they can have a monopoly and only run services to Manchester 6 months of the year....?....:=

Cloud1

8th Nov 2008, 22:29

Whilst this thread is about Aurigny, I must add that Flybe do not pick and choose which routes to cancel. They are a succesful company, something which few airlines can claim to be at the moment, and they make sensible business decisions. They will cancel a route if passengers do not use it enough - whats wrong with that? why should they waste money operating a service which people do not use. Chances are that those people who do not use the service are those that then slag them off on websites and media when they drop it :rolleyes:

Aurigny are a bit of a joke as they have a small number of routes out of Guernsey and to the best of my knowledge have not introduced any new routes for a very very long time. They have bitched and moaned about Flybe and in particularly the GCI-MAN route which Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route. What is clear is that passengers chose to travel with Flybe and as a result Aurigny's business slipped, hence why they groaned when Flybe stopped the route.

Guernsey is big enough for two operators although I do think that island residents and the GCI government need to wake up, open their eyes and realise that Flybe have carried a large number of passengers compared to Aurigny and I suspect generated a fair amount for GCI economy. Jet service or no jet service, they still carry more passengers on their services out of GCI compared to 'the national state owned airline'

Aurigny will not go anywhere because it has GCI government backing but it does not mean that people will choose Aurigny over any other carrier as a result. Their service levels are no better than Flybe's or any other airlines for that matter - the only carrier in the Channel Islands with a slight difference is Blue Islands.

kuningan

10th Nov 2008, 09:33

the GCI-MAN route which Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route

If that was the case why did they cancel flights and refund fares?:=

Cloud1

12th Nov 2008, 18:21

Rather than extract lines FlyerGuy why not read the whole paragraph - it does actually make sense regardless of what you think.

The term pick and choose suggests that someone puts no thought into their actions. Flybe think about the route they cancel and therefore do not pick and choose which routes to cancel. I did not say they did not cancel at all now did I?

Flybe have carried more passengers than Aurigny. But if passengers do not use a particular service then it will not operate. If this is not logical why did Auriny cancel their services to Alderney from Jersey and to Dinard?

FlyerGuy - I would recommend that you read the entire post. I would also suggest that you do abit of investigating and a little bit of research before coming back to my post in such a way where actually, as far as I am now concerned, it makes you look as though you have no aviation or least of all business knowledge what so ever.

I would be delighted if Flybe pulled out of the Islands - watch the islanders try and get on with their lives and business. Sometimes people do not appreciate something until they do not have it anymore and it would seem to me that, that is exactly what is happening with Flybe and (some of) the island residents.

kuningan
The route was pulled earlier than anticipated. Sad but thats life....and it is these decisions that means that Flybe can operate profitably without the need of financial input from the GCI government to buy new aircraft, for example.

Lets compare facts, from GCI at least:

GR to MAN 2x daily
GR to LGW 4x weekday
GR to JER 13x daily in Trislander........ :-(
GR to ALD max 4x weekday except mon and fri
GR to STN varies from 1x weekday to every other day(??)
GR to BRS 1x weekday

BE to LGW 5x weekday
BE to BHX 2x weekday
BE to EXT 2x weekday
BE to MAN direct (summer only)
BE to DUB direct (summer only)
BE to CDG direct (summer only)
BE to JER 2x weekday
BE to SOU 4x weekday
BE to NWI (summer only)

All 78 seater aircraft. Also offering connections during the winter to so many destinations I cannot be bothered to list them. Needless to say if you look at the online timetable it speaks volumes.

It really frustrates me that people seem to have an opinion on a company that is one of the most succesful companies around at the moment in comparison to its competitors. If you honestly feel that GR are a better company than Flybe in terms of service to the community it is worrying :)

Ayline

12th Nov 2008, 20:32

I would like to start by saying that despite my user name I do not work for Aurigny nor am I related to anyone that does. The only connection I have with Aurigny is that I am a Guernsey tax payer. You raise some interesting points Cloud1. Firstly you state as regards the Guernsey-Manchester route that "Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route" which isn't true as Flybe actually operated the Guernsey-Manchester last winter. It was terminated on the 7th January 2008 leaving Aurigny to run the service through the lean months of January and February. Once the summer came Flybe was back on the route to take the cream of the summer traffic only to terminate the route again as soon as Autumn approached. Secondly the Dublin routes and Paris routes were promoted as year round routes and I quote from the Flybe website: "Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, has today announced the addition of a brand new, three times a week non-stop route to Dublin for Guernsey passengers effective 7th June. The year round route will hugely benefit both business and leisure travellers who can now book the non-stop service to the Irish capital" and "Flybe, Europe’s largest regional low cost airline, is following up the launch of its 2008 summer schedule with a new year-round, four times a week route to the French capital city of Paris, effective 11th July". At the time of the announcement of the Dublin route Blue Islands had been advertising their new CI-Dublin route but that was axed before it got off the ground due to the forthcoming competition from Flybe. The year round Blue Islands service to Paris (Beauvais) was understandably axed the day before Flybe started Guernsey-Paris (a route which incidentally Flybe operated for barely 3 months). Guernsey would probably still have a year round Blue Islands Paris service had it not been for the bully boy tactics of Flybe. It appears that whenever another carrier decides to make a go of a new route Flybe comes along and operates the route for a few months simply to stamp out the competition from the smaller operators. Turning to airfares now lets take next week as an example this is what Flybe will charge you for a day return flight from Guernsey to Gatwick (Aurigny fares in brackets): Mon: £249.98 (£217), Tue: £283.98 (£195), Wed: £187.98 (£161), Thurs: £186.98 (£161) and Fri: £233.98 (£217). On every day Aurigny is cheaper you get a newspaper and a choice of hot and cold drinks and you don't have to pay £15.98 for the privilege of placing a bag in the hold. One wonders what the Flybe fares would be if there was no Aurigny operating on the route. Flybe keep expressing their concern as to how much Aurigny is costing the Guernsey taxpayers. I have never known an airline to show so much concern for taxpayers! The Guernsey taxpayers don't seem to share Flybe's concern as when polled in the summer 80% of Guernsey taxpayers stated that they wanted the government to retain ownership of the airline. Guernsey residents haven't forgotten what happened to their Guernsey-Heathrow link - it was axed by the sole operator in exchange for £10M worth of Heathrow slots. Wasn't Flybe asking the taxpayers of Guernsey and Jersey for financial assistance to help in the launch of the Paris route? As I understand it Flybe were given financial incentives by the States of Guernsey to help them start the Dublin and Paris routes and there is no guarante that we will see either of these routes return. To conclude I certainly wouldn't be delighted to see Flybe pull out of the island. I understand that they have to make a profit and can't operate loss making routes but they need to do more to earn the respect of islanders and that can't be achieved for instance by placing adverts in the local paper making negative remarks about Aurigny - remember the one about G-JOEY?

Feet on ground

13th Nov 2008, 05:27

Well said Ayline, couldn't have put it better myself.

"Cloud1" obviously can't spell Cuckoo!

Geo73

13th Nov 2008, 11:21

Excellent post Ayline.

kuningan

13th Nov 2008, 11:41

It really frustrates me that people seem to have an opinion on a company that is one of the most succesful companies around at the moment in comparison to its competitors. If you honestly feel that GR are a better company than Flybe in terms of service to the community it is worrying

You've just seen a range of opinions all negative about the way Flybe is perceived. That indeed is worrying - for Flybe. Given their track records, yes I do think that GR serves the community of Guernsey better - but that's not surprising, since the community of Guernsey are their shareholders. People have long memories, as some of the posts above illustrate - and Flybe's commitment to its bottom line, at the cost of reliability to the community - (which is understandable) - has not endeared it to Guernsey

GroundBunnie

13th Nov 2008, 12:37

Quote<<Turning to airfares now lets take next week as an example this is what Flybe will charge you for a day return flight from Guernsey to Gatwick (Aurigny fares in brackets): Mon: £249.98 (£217), Tue: £283.98 (£195), Wed: £187.98 (£161), Thurs: £186.98 (£161) and Fri: £233.98 (£217). On every day Aurigny is cheaper you get a newspaper and a choice of hot and cold drinks and you don't have to pay £15.98 for the privilege of placing a bag in the hold.>>

Ayline - I understand how the Islanders 'feel' about Flybe, and given the fares you've quoted, why do Flybe get any business? Are the Aurigny flights to LGW totally full all day?

GB

quazz

13th Nov 2008, 13:32

No matter what people feel about certain airlines passengers generally as a rule book with whoever is cheapest at the time. If you have enough money to book a full fare 250 pound ticket when another airline is offering a 70 pound ticket then I really envy you.

I hate flying with ryanair but if they are alot cheaper than british airways then i will grit my teeth and get treated like cattle for a few hours

kuningan

13th Nov 2008, 14:03

given the fares you've quoted, why do Flybe get any business?

I regularly fly GCI-LGW and almost always Flybe is more expensive than Aurigny. And that's before their 'hidden extras' kick in.

I wonder if Flybe have more corporate business which fills the aircraft at 'corporate' rates - bumping up the rate for the rest of us SLF? I don't know if Aurigny do corporate rates - I infer from Flybe's website that they do.

Chris Gains

14th Nov 2008, 07:38

Just a small point but:-
One company charge more but the company is currently making money
Another company charge less and are currently loosing money with the Guernsey tax payer picking up the bill (approx. £15 per Guernsey Resident so far this year).............

Is it me or am I missing the point?
If Guernsey were in the EU would this constitute illegal state aid? (Not that it's stopped Italy and Alitalia!!!!)

Feet on ground

14th Nov 2008, 10:04

You can't make assumptions about an airlines profitability based on the prices on 1 route over 1 week, when Aurigny have 8 routes, and flybe have 170+. It also stands to reason that flybe will have a greater share of the Guernsey Gatwick market that originates in the UK, due to their far greater brand awareness and marketing actiity there.

But if I was a betting man I would think that Aurigny's current financial problems are more to do with another airline that is making similarly large losses flying 12 x J31s a day between Guernsey and Jersey, whilst "buying" all the corporate business.

uncovered

14th Nov 2008, 11:57

A Guernsey Politician who speaks sense !!!!

THE States should never have bought Aurigny, according to former deputy chief minister Stuart Falla (pictured).
The Garenne Group chairman was yesterday asked about the loss-making airline’s future. He was speaking at a Chamber of Commerce and Young Business Group workshop for small and medium-sized businesses.

And although he considered it a mistake for the States to have agreed to purchase the airline in 2003, Mr Falla, who was in the House from 2004 to 2008 - said that now would not be the time to sell it.

‘A body such as the States of Guernsey cannot run a trading company. I came across some fantastic civil servants in the States, as well as some not so good ones, but their whole experience is not about running a company. But I would not sell it in the current climate because it has no value.’

It was revealed in last week’s 2009 Budget that Aurigny had lost more than £1m. in the first eight months of the year.

To continue trading its holding company, Cabernet Ltd, has also been forced to enter into a short-term borrowing arrangement with Royal Bank of Scotland International for up to £1.75m. until March 2009, having also hit the limit of a £4.2m. loan facility backed by the States three years ago.

Article posted on 13th November, 2008 - 2.29pm Press and Star

Mrs Overall

11th Dec 2008, 14:04

Aurigny I heard today from a member of staff are to make up to 6 cabin crew redundant & are asking for volunteers amongst flight crew to take 3 months unpaid leave.

Capot

11th Dec 2008, 15:04

Mr Falla might be interested to know that a very well-backed offer was made for the Aurigny Group about 18 months ago, at a very good value, by a group whose purpose was to invest heavily in growing it into a true Channel Islands airline, still head-quartered in Guernsey but serving UK and European routes from both main Islands.

The offer was rejected out of hand by the Minister responsible, on the grounds that the Group was profitable and growing (both untrue at that time, if you really looked at the numbers), and that the Guernsey taxpayers were ready and willing to continue carrying the risk. They were then, as now, largely unaware of the true exposure to loss facing each taxpayer as a result of their Government's actions.

Guernsey is now stuck with a failing Group with a competitor coming up fast on the sidelines. It didn't have to be like that. To argue that events were unforeseeable is ridiculous. Of course events are unforeseeable; that's why you do not use public funds to take massive risks, as Guernsey did over Aurigny and is continuing to do.

Feet on ground

13th Dec 2008, 00:27

Capot

Call me paranoid if you like, but don't you think the real risk to the people of Guernsey is having flybe as the only carrier serving the island?

flybe's goal is (understandably) to be the number one (probably only) carrier serving the UK regions and they are well on their way to achieving that, with talks now going on over BMI Regional, leaving just Eastern, Aurigny and ASW to tackle. You can discount Blue Islands as a rich mans play thing that will die with him if not before.

Capot

13th Dec 2008, 13:30

FOG

The proposal that Guernsey rejected was nothing less than the creation of a really strong CI airline, on the exisiting foundation that the Aurigny Group offers plus a very large investment, that would ensure that a truly competitive situation would be maintained, particularly vis-a-vis Flybe.

Aurigny cannot survive indefintely as things are and all that Guernsey is doing by keeping it running in its present form at tax-payer expense and risk is artificially prolonging its life. Sooner or later this has to stop, and this will eventually mean that Flybe does become the sole supplier.

Guernsey should not and cannot use any more public funds than the millions so far spent on Aurigny, to finance the growth that Aurigny needs to survive.

Blue Islands could not win a price war against Flybe, just as Aurigny can't win that, even if your prognosis doesn't prove correct.

Unfortunately those in charge in Guernsey seem to prefer to gratify their egos by remaining in charge of an airline, using, of course, other peoples' money to maintain that position. When it eventually fails they'll blame everyone and everything except themselves.

At present Flybe is simply waiting for it all to drop into their hands; they have much greater priorities in any case.

quazz

14th Dec 2008, 10:36

The states probably rejected a bid for aurigny 18 months ago because they were making a profit last year. Why sell an airline that had made money for the previous few years?
This year nearly every airline has struggled to make a profit with many going bankrupt because of the extreme set of circumstances that everyone has had to operate under and nobody managed to predict!

Capot

14th Dec 2008, 11:33

Why sell an airline that had made money for the previous few years?

It hadn't. The figures were "massaged"; when you dug into them it was clear that the real situation for the airline was loss-making.

Any accountant will tell you that over the short term you can always present a much rosier picture than the reality, without breaking any rules, and any good accountant can always spot when this is done, given access to the data. But it catches up with you, and that's where Aurigny now is, exactly as was predicted at that time against denials by the airline's owner.

blueplume

15th Dec 2008, 09:27

People don't like change when they're settled in and comfortable. They don't want to think about having to look for something new which may mean upheaval and moving elsewhere. I can understand that some want to believe what they are told but the writing is now on the wall. The management will wind it up when the time is right without giving a **** about the employees. The State will pay their pensions and all other obligations. Doesn't hurt the management one bit.

Aurigny will have extreme difficulty getting through this year without major changes occurring. The true figures are emerging and they do not make good reading if you are a tax-payer or an accountant.

Blueislands will always be criticised for being a "rich man's plaything" by those who don't want to accept that a company which was started because Aurigny pissed off a cargo customer on Alderney has survived, expanded and established itself as a local company with a future. Boohoo, get over it.

Has it occurred to anyone out there that the person running Blueislands has a great deal of experience of marketing and business strategy?

The only people who have anything to say about it are those at the top. Everybody else can pretend but it's a waste of time so why bother?

The underlying issue is not who is making money and who is not, it is who can keep going longer to make it profitable in the end. Aurigny will not be backed by the states for ever because the situation is becoming untenable.
If people are jealous of somebody else's wealth then do something about it and make your own. The days of comfy jobs for life and pensions are over.

hapzim

15th Dec 2008, 15:41

Blueplume

from my information Aurigny staff never have had a state pension, aka a civil servant, just a money purchase scheme and standard pension the same as any other person in work in Guernsey.

jobs for life don't exist either. Aurigny was always a good company to work for and the staff looked after(so rarely left) although things has changed over the last few years, as now it is state owned management have to be accountable even if some of their decisions recently haven't proved to be the most profitable (ie the shed) to the States of Guernsey.

Blue Islands with their excellent product and Aurigny should be able to both make a profit offering a reliable service to both locals and visitors on the various routes and should not get into silly immature spats. There is a much bigger operator which would like to see both operators disappear for their own non local gain.

blueplume

16th Dec 2008, 10:29

hapzim

You're absolutely correct, Flybe would very much like to see both disppear.

My point is that there is no point in wishing for things to change. If changes are not made then Aurigny will be in a lot of trouble and may be forced to give something up. It will be painful but will probably be the only way to ensure survival.

Nothing wrong with the brand, just needs sprucing up a bit.

fredtheanorak

20th Dec 2008, 06:23

OK BP so when are Blue Islands going to merge with Aurigny as the Channel Islands superpower. Will it really happen in 2009 or is it just another pipedream:)

Riverboat

20th Dec 2008, 12:27

A comment about FlyBe: this too started off as a "rich man's plaything". Johnny Walker was the rich man, and I think even he would be surprised about how big it has become.

There is some sort of unpleasant business ethos lurking in FlyBe, which I cannot decide whether it is good or bad. On the face of it it is bad, but I guess they feel they have to do it. And that is to encroach on other operator's routes and bully their way to the prime position on it. They have done it in Scotland and Cornwall and probably other places as well.

Another point about the fares on FlyBe usually being higher than AY on the LGW route. FlyBe are not a low cost airline, whatever they like to say about it. Their yield management is excellent and they charge quite a lot of money for tickets. They are regularly higher than BA on the JER-LGW route, and it is hard to get a cheap ticket on any route out of Birmingham, BHX-GCI/JER being examples.

Passengers fly on their flights because in the UK no-one has heard of Aurigny. If they had heard of it, they wouldn't be able to pronounce it! FlyBe is relatively well known, whilst Aurigny isn't. Therefore FlyBe can attract more UK emanating passengers, and, of course, these pax have to fly back again.

jerboy

21st Dec 2008, 01:11

Riverboat...

I think your post describes Flybe better then any other post/advertisement/article/whatever. An airline which describes itself as low cost, but is actually quite expensive, bullying its way into regional services etc.

I honestly think the product of BE's success is due to its PR and not due to its services. I just wish that GR could say that its services could generate it enough profit without ridiculous PR (a la Flybe)

GR has been the lifeline of the islands, especially Guernsey, for many years. Offering routes, on which profitability may have been called into question, or may have been a pain in the arse to operate. But they did it for the good of the Islands, during and before the States of Guernsey ownership.

A merger with blueislands would be detrimental - it would leave the islands with one airline (monopoly), presumably run by someone/some company who's overall concerns are with profits, other than the ease of transport across the rocks.

I think competition should be encouraged between the two airlines. GR in particular need to realise its almost it 2009 and modernise their business into a modern day operation. If not, the States are in very real danger of ditching them, and Blueislands will become the major player across the islands.

This post kinda spans a few points of view, but I think is fairly representative of the Islands at the moment...

OA32

21st Dec 2008, 08:38

I feel I should point out the common misunderstanding, Flybe are a low cost airline just not in the traditional sense like ryanair and easyjet. What they are most certainly not is a low fares airline, they are using a clever play in words in their advertising.

captainyonder

21st Dec 2008, 10:23

Blue Islands look as if they are taking on two ATR 42s permanantly. With the majority market share on the inter-island routes and an expanding route network surely this only leaves Aurigny in business with the sole purpose of protecting the Manchester and Gatwick routes? Is it therefore not time for the States to hand over Aurigny to Blue Islands? With the ATRs that appear to be joining Blue Islands the Aurigny fleet is the perfect fit. The majority of the Trislanders could be retired, maintaining just those required for the Alderney operations. Surely it's time that Aurigny was run for profit, because if it goes it alone against Flybe I can see only one winner.

Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!

quazz

21st Dec 2008, 11:54

Are they taking over the 2 from sky blue? or is it more a joint venture.
I guess they would have to change their name to Sky Blue Islands :ok:

Feet on ground

22nd Dec 2008, 11:26

Captainyonder

"Blue Islands will run the company as a business, and yes, that will mean cuts, but at least Guernsey can keep it's Manchester and Gatwick routes without having to maintain an unprofitable airline that lost over £1 million in just 8 months this year!"

How much profit do you think Blue Islands will have "made" this year?

captainyonder

22nd Dec 2008, 12:00

I am well aware that Blue Islands haven't made a profit this year, but that is mainly due to the operation of the wet leased Dornier 328. If Blue Islands is taking on it's own ATR 42's as I'm lead to believe they are then I believe they will be a profitable operation. ATR's are generally low cost aircraft to operate and without the extra cost of paying another operator to run the services for them I truly believe that Blue Islands will become a profitable company.

hotelmodemetar

22nd Dec 2008, 12:53

Are they still doing freight routes for the Royal mail and jersey post ?

Yak97

25th Dec 2008, 09:12

Published in the CAA OF2 this week:

The following application has been received:
GTB 28 Flybe Limited to vary the conditions of its licence to operate passenger and cargo flights between GUERNSEY and JERSEY

What are they after & how will it affect Aurigny?

OA32

28th Dec 2008, 17:42

They can't start carrying passengers inter-island, competing with Blue Islands or Aurigny, without permission from both Jersey and Guernsey Governments. So who knows, certainly nothing heard on the grapevine.

xtypeman

29th Dec 2008, 09:42

This will be a variation to the permission they already have it currently restricts the number of pax they can carry between the Islands. Another atempt by flybe to dominate.

Jerbourg

18th Jan 2009, 12:45

Two routes, Guernsey - Nottingham & Jersey - Stansted which were dropped by Aurigny a few years back are to be reinstated in the airlines schedule from Summer 09.

GBALU53

18th Jan 2009, 13:24

Jerbourg

When will Aurigny tell the world there is a Jersey to Stansted service as on there web site it shows you route via Guernsey.

Will it a direct service? or is a false piece of advertising?

macuser

18th Jan 2009, 13:54

Current fare (Via Guernsey) is c £180. Better be lower than that to attract the punters.

jerboy

18th Jan 2009, 14:34

I take it its EMA?

Might be viable from GCI but with baby already on the route is it a good idea?

Jerbourg

18th Jan 2009, 15:19

EMA is Guernsey only & STN I was told will be a GCI-JER-STN -JER-GCI routing. I don't think the website has been updated with the new direct service as yet.

GBALU53

18th Jan 2009, 20:04

Jerbourg

So if it is Guensey-Jersey-Stansted-Jersey-Guernsey will it work?

The flight will be leaveing Jersey late morning 1130 or 1200ish so what traffic are they trying to pick up?

I understand the Guernsey-Stansted-Guernsey is not well surported due to its timings so will this work?

Aurigny did operate twice a day to Stansted four years ago but did not give it time to make the route work before they pulled the plug, so how many months will this operate before the plug gets pulled? like a number of routes Aurigny have operated in the past out of the Islands.

Jerbourg

19th Jan 2009, 08:32

BALU

Ithink you will fin that the STN route is well supported out of GCI, the exception being at this time of year, but then that applies to most routes out of the islands.

hapzim

19th Jan 2009, 09:09

They could do Dublin direct Monday - Friday as Fly Be only appear to be doing it on a Saturday from Guernsey.

macuser

19th Jan 2009, 11:33

Out of interest just dialled in a return flight Flybe JER-LTN mid-week in April. Came out at c £86 total, bags included, so keen competition there. I don't think Guernsey pax will support the service as much if they have to route via JER.

GBALU53

19th Jan 2009, 14:03

Jerbourg

If the route is well supported from Guernsey why route the flight via Jersey?

Jerbourg

19th Jan 2009, 18:55

Who knows, maybe the frequency will be upped to two a day from GCI, one maybe via JER? Time will tell.

fredtheanorak

20th Jan 2009, 16:51

How come if GR are losing millions the owners are prepared to chuck more money at it to see losses increase further on new routes:confused: GSY EMA at least bennefits GSY. What does JER STN do for GSY:confused:. Sounds like its still the mad hatters' tea party down there:}

Jerbourg

3rd Feb 2009, 08:24

I have it on good authority that the Jersey - Stansted aircraft will leave GCI approx 1000 & operate GCI-STN-JER-STN-GCI.

Feet on ground

13th Feb 2009, 18:34

Guernsey East Midlands route now available on their website, no sign of Jersey Stansted though.

Jerbourg

17th Feb 2009, 12:09

The GCI-LGW route is going 5 times daily for the summer.

Sark

17th Feb 2009, 14:17

Guernsey - East Midlands is a strange move. It was dropped by Aurigny a few years back. Are they receiving a kick back from the local government to re-introduce it I wonder?

Balair

17th Feb 2009, 15:46

I would imagine there must be some form of support for the route's re-introduction; a daily service with an ATR72-500 is certainly ambitious, I would have thought they might have initially gone for 3 or 4 flights per week to determine the demand for the service?

five zero by ortac

17th Feb 2009, 17:21

GCI-EMA was very successful for AUR when we had the Saab's, high load factors & mostly full at weekends. Route was given to us on a plate from BMI. Eight rotations a week if I remember correctly. Never did understand why it got dropped - crazy decision. However I feel its now going to take a while to build up this route after a 6/7 (?) year gap.

Balair

17th Feb 2009, 19:58

The route was last operated by AUR in 2004 during which 18,145 pax were carried.

Feet on ground

18th Feb 2009, 08:38

Jerbourg

I don't know where your "good authority is" but it can't be around a 1000 departure because Aurigny only has three ATRs and according to the schedules on their website one goes to Gatwick at 1020, one goes to Bristol at 1100, and the new Gatwick service arrives in Guernsey at 1130. So my guess would be around 1200-1210.

Hopefully we'll find out soon, unless of course everything has changed again. I do find myself wondering if this is all happening, why are we talking about it and Aurigny not?

Curious Pax

18th Feb 2009, 11:47

According to Jethro's site, Aurigny are supposed to get 2 new ATR72s shortly - one this month and one in March. Unless they are withdrawing 2 older examples then there's your answer.

Jerbourg

22nd Feb 2009, 11:04

Aurigny have been looking at replacing the ageing Trislanders with Do.228's. Looks like they are at last trying to counter act the continuing loss of pax on inter island routes to Blue Islands by re-equiping with someting a bit more modern than a BNT.

jetstreamtechrecords

23rd Feb 2009, 17:34

The new Do228NG's are assembled in Germany by RUAG using parts procured from their Indian licencee:ok: They should consider the PZL Skytruck.;)

eyeinthesky

23rd Feb 2009, 17:42

I understand from someone who looked into this type in some detail a few years back that Do228s could only guarantee the performance to get out of Alderney with a maximum of 15 pax. Seems a pity to restrict a 19-seat turboprop to 15 seats, but I suppose it depends upon your priorities.

Would Manx2 be a good tie-up, given their experience of the type and their owner's experience of the island (notwithstanding the need to bury a very large hatchet from previous encounters first)?

virginblue

23rd Feb 2009, 18:53

There is also the 16seat Dornier 228-100.

gcayman

24th Feb 2009, 06:29

Are the 2 new aircraft still expected in March/April?

gcayman

24th Feb 2009, 06:37

I understand GR operate skiing charters from GCI/JER to Grenoble this winter. Do they operate every week and which is the company chartering the flights?

Jerbourg

24th Feb 2009, 14:13

Eyeinthesky - I did hear in the Aero Club bar the other night that Manx2 persons have been spotted at GR HQ in recent weeks, maybe only a rumour tho'.

Guern

24th Feb 2009, 18:54

According to the GEP today two new ATR's G-VZON & G-COBO arrive early next month.

Feet on ground

26th Feb 2009, 15:43

Direct Jersey Stansted services now available on the web site. Looks like prices start at £30 including 20kgs hold baggage alllowance.

GBALU53

26th Feb 2009, 16:15

All very well having a Jersey to Stansted, at the times they are going to operate will it work??
With the end of the Jersey-Heathrow service next month where will those passengers who would have flown from Heathrow go to?
Gatwick at the moment gives a varity of flights to Jersey, you can also do for a day trip both ways.
London City Monday to Friday gives a daytrip to Jersey for six hours only.
So what market are Aurigny looking at?, by the time Jersey passengers get to Stansted there must be very little Easyjet or Ryanair flights to chose to go on with there might be some Air Berlin to Germany.

Jerbourg

26th Feb 2009, 19:35

FR & EZY fly numerous routes all day long out of Stansted, flights don't stop after lunch, Aurigny should not have a problem making a success of the route.

GBALU53

26th Feb 2009, 20:21

How can this route work?:suspect:

The flight departs Jersey mid afternoon 1530 arrival Stansted say 1630 so what flights are still to depart Stansted after that?

If your next flight needs a check in of an hour that makes your onward connection 1745 at least if the flight in from Jersey is on time, who would risk a connection like that?

So we have a night stop in the Radisson Hotel Stansted at a reduced rate??? I understand there is a Radission Hotel on Jersey, so has Aurigny done any deals????.:ok:

The following morning you can take your pick on the early morning departures around Europe??:ok:

bmaviscount

26th Feb 2009, 20:32

Does this mean the GCI-STN times will change for the summer? What happens to aircraft after it gets to STN?

virginblue

26th Feb 2009, 22:47

Why are you all so focused on connecting traffic? I do not think that the route is based on the assumption that most pax will self-connect at STN. Certainly there is a reasonable market for local traffic from the North London/Cambridge area, particularly with the LHR service gone.

ChalfontFlyer

27th Feb 2009, 07:01

The Aurigny website will currently let you book a direct flight from STN-GCI after 30th April but not the return trip. It just states "We could not find any flights or seats available on the date selected."
Seems odd that you can't book a return journey even if it may be routed via JER?

J-Guy

27th Feb 2009, 08:35

Flights schedules from Guernsey and Jersey to Stansted are as followed;

GCI – STN 12:10 – 13:20
STN – JER 13:50 – 15:05
JER – STN 15:35 – 16:50
STN – GCI 17:20 – 18:30

Given that there will be no Heathrow flights and a reduced frequency to Luton I imagine that there is a sufficient market for flights to the Island from Stansted for locals and tourists. Obviously recent attempts to relaunch the route have not been successful for various reasons, but I think enough demand exists and I hope Aurigny are more successful this time.

ChalfontFlyer

27th Feb 2009, 09:58

Thanks J-Guy. In fact I've just tried again on their website & it now shows the GCI-STN flight as well. I assume it was just a glitch on their site earlier this morning.

Regarding demand, if the price is right (especially this summer) then it will be a success! They have lots of experience vs. FlyBe on this matter & in my experience they're a lot less hassle as you don't have to pay extras etc.

Feet on ground

27th Feb 2009, 16:10

GBALU53

Have you actually looked at the STN departure board?

Departures tonight from 1800 onwards:

18:00 FR306 SALZBURG
18:00 FR968 GOTHENBURG CITY
18:05 FR2468 LODZ
18:05 FR8363 SEVILLE
18:10 EZY3467 COPENHAGEN
18:10 FR107 SHANNON
18:15 FR3014 ROME CIAMPINO
18:20 FR701 KERRY
18:25 EZY3417 MUNICH
18:30 FR227 DUBLIN
18:30 FR8347 PORTO
18:30 OR973 KINGSTON
18:40 FR2003 FRIEDRICHSHAFEN
18:40 FR9774 KARLSRUHE BADEN
18:45 EZY263 BELFAST
18:45 FR4198 MILAN BERGAMO
18:45 FR8546 BERLIN SCHONEFE
18:55 FR2316 BRATISLAVA
19:00 FR5998 MADRID
19:05 FR038 OSLO TORP
19:05 FR798 VENICE TREVISO
19:20 EZY519 NEWCASTLE
19:20 FR464 TURIN
19:25 EZY3009 AMSTERDAM
19:30 AEU156 KEFLAVIK
19:35 FR052 STOCKHOLM SKAVS
19:35 FR613 DERRY
19:45 EZY217 GLASGOW
19:45 FR6542 MARSEILLE
19:45 FR907 CORK
20:00 A3605 ATHENS
20:00 DY1305 OSLO
20:05 4U357 COLOGNE
20:05 FR293 DUBLIN
20:10 FR3634 BREMEN
20:10 FR419 GLASGOW PIK
20:10 FR6129 BELFAST CITY
20:15 AB8343 DUSSELDORF
20:15 AB8821 MUNSTER
20:20 4U2379 STUTTGART
20:30 FR586 PISA
20:40 AB8423 HANOVER
20:40 FR3258 DUSSELDORF WEEZ
20:40 FR758 FRANKFURT HAHN
20:45 AB8595 NUREMBERG
20:55 EZY245 EDINBURGH
21:10 EZY219 GLASGOW
21:45 FR109 SHANNON
21:45 FR297 DUBLIN
22:00 YK956 ANTALYA

Quite a few choices then!

But I don't think Aurigny's main focus will be on transfer traffic, sure some of it will be, but there is a big leisure market to and from the Stansted catchment area. Surely if the Guernsey Stansted route can operated almost daily year round off peak timed services, then the Jersey Stansted market can as well.

I wish them well in these difficult times for airlines.

kuningan

5th Mar 2009, 19:43

Aurigny took delivery of the first of their new ATR 72-500 today....if my schoolboy French is still serviceable:

Aurigny Air Services prend livraison de son premier ATR 72-500 (sur Edubourse.com) (http://www.edubourse.com/finance/actualites.php?actu=51376)

quazz

5th Mar 2009, 20:43

try this link for dimwits like me who can only speak english
Aurigny Air Services Takes Delivery of its First ATR 72-500 - ATR (http://www.atraircraft.com/public/atr/html/press/releases-details.php?aid=908)

GBALU53

6th Mar 2009, 07:21

Feet on the Ground

Yes there are a number of destinations to chose from if the flight from Jersey is on time, how many of these flights would make the check in time required?
WHAT IS THE CHECK IN TIME 1 OR 2 HOURS? IF IT IS 2 HOURS YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN MAKE THE CHECK IN TIME FOR THE 1800 DEPARTURES?
Would many people risk tight connections knowing if the flight from Jersey was a little late?
If you have to night stop both ways two nights in the Raddisson will knock you price up so why not go via Gaiwick where there is a choice of at least ten flights a day from Jersey.
Are you aware of the types of weather down in the Channel islands? must be one of not many places where you get gale force fog.

paulc

6th Mar 2009, 14:21

G-COBO left Eastleigh 11.45 this morning

quazz

6th Mar 2009, 17:25

...and after a few flybys of Alderney and Guernsey arrived at about 1220.
BBC - Guernsey - Places - New Aurigny Plane (http://www.bbc.co.uk/guernsey/content/image_galleries/aurigny_plane_atr_72_500_mar09_gallery.shtml)

kuningan

6th Mar 2009, 17:44

I asked the cabin crew on GR600 this morning (who knew it was arriving today) when it would enter service - they did not know - anyone?

Jerbourg

6th Mar 2009, 18:35

I heard middle of next week.

GBALU53

7th Mar 2009, 06:57

I heard it would be Wednesday 11th march

tin canary

9th Mar 2009, 10:26

Its today, the 9th, actually

Ian Brooks

9th Mar 2009, 11:30

Due in Manchester this eveninghttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Ian

macuser

27th Mar 2009, 09:20

An aircraft en route from Jersey to Guernsey had to turn back when a luggage hatch blew off in mid air.
The Aurigny airlines flight took off from Jersey Airport on Tuesday at about 0800 GMT.
A short while into the journey a hatch in the nose of the Trislander aircraft dropped off, missing the plane's three propellers and falling into the sea.
Aurigny said no-one on the aircraft was hurt and no luggage was lost. The incident is now being investigated.
The passengers were transferred to another plane and continued their trip with "the minimum of disruption," a spokesman added.

Ooops!

BALLOO53

27th Mar 2009, 10:44

macuser

Just after rotation the pilot reported he needed to return, then 30 seconds or so later the pilot requested to do a tear drop back onto the runway as the front locker became detached from the aircraft. The aircraft was only airbourne for two minutes and landed without further problem.
The loaders on duty could well have been down the lobour exchange by the time the aircraft was back on the ground.

macuser

27th Mar 2009, 12:52

Balloo53

Good detail, many thanks. Lucky the hatch didn't collect any of the props or leading edges. I can well imagine the pilot strutting purposefully towards the loaders' hut upon return!

GBALU53

27th Mar 2009, 21:34

With Aurigny taking delivery of the second new ATR 72 G-VZON today when she arrived from Hurn late this afternoon, will the Guernsey Tax payers expect to see some good returns on there payments?.
With the company now having five ATRs or have the ones they are trying to sell already moved on?? What next for the Taxpayer of Guernsey are there more plans in the pipe line to expand to make these aircraft viable??
More night time mail contracts? as I understand that the main man at Aurigny who will remain nameless to some of us was all for mail contracts up in Geordie land at Gill Air???
Just as well summer is around the bend as the BBC news did say something about a problem with a Trislander they other day loseing its nose locker not good for Joe and his public??

quazz

28th Mar 2009, 08:07

They are not trying to sell any ATR's. The 2 500's are replacing 2 of the 200's which are at the end of their lease. However I would expect the night mails to continue on the remaining 200

ATRISGREAT

28th Mar 2009, 11:11

I think those -500s are fret/pax version aren't they?

BALLOO53

15th May 2009, 06:53

Bad day yesterday Thursday for the two new ATRs of Aurigny both u/s during the day.
One aircraft with a vibration problems and the other one in Manchester with starting problem.
A Titan BAE146 brought in to operate the new East Midlands service.
Should they have looked at other aircraft since they have arrived the new 72s have had a number of unserviclable issues, not a good advert and this is before the summer kicks in.
Guernsey open very late last night to try and get one of the new aircraft to start the morning schedules along side Delta Bravo the old ATR which they still have as three aircraft are required to operate the schedules every day??

hapzim

15th May 2009, 08:47

Late opening appeared to be for a medivac kingair from my observations out of the window.

Tech problems happen to all airlines, well done Aurigny on covering the problems rather than just cancelling in my opionin.

No I do not work for them!

GBALU53

15th May 2009, 17:11

hapzim
Yes you are correct there was a King Air doing a medvac flight, the ATR was due to come in if they got the aircraft servicable at about 2215 but the flight was cancelled after 2130 which is past normal close of 2100 local time so an extension pending the outcome, as of lunch time said aircraft still in Manchester.
The owners of the BAE146 operating today as well as yesterday must be thanks the States for sub chartering in to cover the Gatwick morning flight and possible more??

Mrs Overall

16th May 2009, 19:11

BALU what a load of waffle from you. All airlines have tech problems & Titan make their money out of covering such problems. They not only have the States Of Guernsey to thank for their profits but every other airline that has chartered their aircraft over the years. Well done GR for getting the 146 in the first place, both other airlines serving GCI are quick to cancel flights in times of "bad" tech problems as I am sure you are well aware.

GBALU53

16th May 2009, 20:01

Mrs Overall
Anyone would think you are a trolly dolly on Trislanders they way you seem to support Aurigny??
You must not lose sight that the Guernsey Tax Payer (are you one?) is funding a lot of Aurigny and the problems they have, being a small company when things go wrong in the big world, meaning outside the Island, you start talking big money to mopp up.
I would hope the problems they have had with the new aircraft are covered by some warranty from Aerospatial???
So Aurigny replace the ATR 72s with newer ATR72s so what do they do to replace the inter-islands work hourse newer Trislanders?? this is a good one for you to answer as you do seem to be a fan of the yellow doddle bug family??

Cloud1

16th May 2009, 20:24

Mrs Overall - what a load of crap and you know it.

Can I remind you of one particular airline, out of the two which you have hinted at, that subchartered an additional ATR (they already had one on wetlease) just so that their passengers could leave GCI when the firefighters decided to stop working?? It would have been a good enough excuse as far as I am concerned to say 'sorry, tough beyond our control' but they did not.

In terms of tech problems, one of the GCI airlines have enough aircraft in the fleet to position another aircraft which they regularly do in the event of a 'bad' tech issue.

Spot on those people that have said tech problems happen to all airlines. No airline is immune to tech problems, even the ones with new aircraft. In fact these can be worse as they have to discuss with the aircraft manufacturer.

The fact that they subchartered is nothing to congratulate them about, many many airlines do it!! get over it :rolleyes:

Geo73

17th May 2009, 12:45

Cloud1

Flybe did subcharter an ATR 72 to cover the problems with the fire cover, good on them for that, it didn't work out in the end but there was nothing more they could have done about that.

However there are many times in the past where Flybe have cancelled flights due to technical problems and left passengers in the lurch. Sure enough sometimes they bring in a replacement aircraft but that seems to be if and when it suits them.

Aurigny are going to have problems without a back-up aircraft now that they are utilising all three ATR aircraft, however 9/10 times they will get you to your destination.

You are always going to have teething troubles when a new aircraft is introduced, this is no different from when Flybe introduced the Q400.

Before you ask, I don't have any connections with Aurigny apart from being a Guernsey tax payer who supports his local airline.

tin canary

17th May 2009, 15:08

well said geo73. Like the good old Guernsey Press, the others contributors just can't help putting the boot into aurigny when something goes wrong - like the other operators are perfect!
Basically they have nothing worthwhile to say :ugh:

Cloud1

17th May 2009, 16:34

Geo73

Please care to re-read my post and you will see I had already acknowledged the fact that airlines that have new aircraft will often experience tech issues. I am fully aware that this happened with the Q400, as it has with the A380 recently publicised.

I do not doubt that Aurigny will get you to your destination, so will Flybe and Blue Islands. The only thing is you may be subject to a delay either because Aurigny is fixing the plane, or Flybe rebook you onto the next service due to their frequent schedule into GCI. How anyone can suggest that Flybe leave you in the lurch is far beyond my understanding as they have more flexibility in such circumstances - if for any reason the island is fogged out this is a different matter but I hardly see how they would then be different to anyone else.

Besides my post was in response to a rather ridiculous suggestion made by Mrs Overall. I am not prepared to get into an indepth, endless and pointless discussion about which are the better airlines operating into GCI. As far as I am concerned both GR and BE are the same like it or lump it.

Geo73

17th May 2009, 18:11

Cloud1

Because you have more flexibility doesn't mean you are going to use it.

Flybe have a reputation for cancelling flights very early on when they have problems, they may have their reasons for this, who know's?

Aurigny are the opposite, they will always do the upmost to get you to/from your destination, only cancelling as a last resort.

It may be beyond your understanding, however it is fact.

Describing the two as the same shows your lack of local knowledge.

tin canary

17th May 2009, 19:24

Yeah. I bet most people have experienced or know someone who has experienced Flybe cancelling a flight and saying book on the next available - which turns out to be 2 days later. The only good thing is for Flybe, who then run 100% load factor for the next couple of days.

I do not understand the "Flybe has more flexibility". If that is true I have never witnessed it.:hmm:

Ayline

17th May 2009, 21:00

Well said Geo73. As a Guernsey taxpayer I am proud of our local airline and I would like to think that all Guernsey residents will use Aurigny whenever possible.

OliWW

17th May 2009, 21:49

Anyone know how the Guernsey - East Midlands flight is getting on, been running for about 3 weeks now, I have to say there hasnt been much advertising for the flights, apart from a small banner on their website

Balair

18th May 2009, 07:58

Due to the very late launch of this service it is not included as one of the flight options in any of the tour operator's brochures.
Two week's ago we phoned three travel agents to get the best price for a holiday we are taking there in June, they all insisted there was not a service to Guernsey from EMA!
I would imagine this, together with very little advertising, is likely to have quite a bearing on pax numbers for this Summer season. The lack of awareness of the new route by travel agents certainly does not reflect well on the airport's marketing department...!

Mrs Overall

18th May 2009, 12:01

EMA is doing well so far & I hear forward bookings are excellent too.

tin canary

18th May 2009, 14:32

If the travel agents don't know then thats not good, but I think Mrs O is right in that it was reported in the local press as being off to a good start with bookings ahead of budget figures which is encouraging.
I think it will be a welcome alternative to BHX with flybe (via JER sometimes) - but people book in advance these days if they can and i know people who had already booked with flybe to get a decent price so they are already committed. I guess this will filter out of the equation over time.

rolibkk

18th May 2009, 18:46

Well, I hope you have considered changing your travel agents as any agent with access to Sabre, Galileo or Amadeus would have seen with 1 simple entry that Aurigy operates on that route. And I just did a quick lookup on ebookers www.ebookers.co.uk (http://www.ebookers.co.uk)) and the connex brings back Aurigny flights .... :ok:

Crusher1

19th May 2009, 08:53

My niece came over on the second flight, said it was virtually full. Unfortunatly all her other flights for the summer (and mine) have been booked in advance from BHX, which is unfortunate - wish we had known about the service starting a bit earlier!

macuser

25th Jun 2009, 22:21

Anyone know what happened to a GR ATR-72 at Gatwick this morning? Heard a vehicle was in collision. Disrupted schedules big time, for sure.

hapzim

25th Jun 2009, 22:45

tug got towbar stuck on the nose gear doors

macuser

25th Jun 2009, 22:48

Hapzim

is it free yet?!!!!

BALLOO53

26th Jun 2009, 05:22

The aircraft positioned back to Guernsey that same morning for repairs and was back in service late yesterday afternoon.
The aircraft was Delta Bravo and not one of the new ones

Mrs Overall

20th Nov 2009, 16:10

Word on the street is the MD has resigned?
Any truth in this I wonder?

BALLOO53

21st Nov 2009, 09:13

There was a big meeting in Guernsey on Wednesday.
What the meeting was about could well be in conection with the possibilty of said person asking to take a little walk.
I understand he was kept on a few years ago to sort out the mess he has put the company in to.
So could be some big changes not only in the company but operations with in the Islands.
Never nice to hear of these sort of problems so close to Xmas.:(

Jerbourg

26th Nov 2009, 10:45

Accordin to local media today Aurigny repoted a £1.2m loss for the year up to September. Aurigny's MD is quoted as saying that the airline will be back in profit inside 2 years. Will Aurigny I wonder even exist as such by then?

In yesterdays GEP Blue Islands said that they were not taking over Aurigny as written on this site. However IMO let's just wait & see.

givepeasachance

26th Nov 2009, 11:00

MH was reported as saying that Aurigny was 'running at an operating loss (this year) of £1.2m to end September. This will be considerably less than the real losses. MH's number will exclude all aircraft ownership costs- likely to be in excess of £2 Mill this year after the acquisition of 2 new ATR-72's.

hotelmodemetar

16th Jan 2010, 09:29

According to their website, Aurigny is launching Guernsey-Grenoble (I guess with an ATR). Do you think this route can work as a daily service all the year? :hmm:

hapzim

16th Jan 2010, 10:15

A little late hotelmodemetar.
Its a weekly service on a Saturday aimed at the ski market Xmas to end Feb. Will save the locals a UK overnight and 2 lots of Gordon's airport departure tax (Dutch have now removed this having seen how damaging it was to their aviation community):ugh:

Good on Aurigny for being innovative this is the sort of competition needed in the islands offering customers different routes rather than the 3 main carriers going head to head.:ok:

hotelmodemetar

16th Jan 2010, 11:14

Ok, I thought it was a daily service all the year :}
I know GR have always done charters to Grenoble over the winter. It's a good point they expand their network. CDG would indeed have been a good destination as well for Paris city, disneyland, and the big skyteam AF-KLM hub (good alternative to bloody gatwick/manchester with awful security checks :ouch:). But Flybe seems to have understood this quicker, that's a shame.

Jerbourg

16th Jan 2010, 14:23

Shame Aurigny had to leave every single piece of baggage in Grenoble last Saturday due to aircraft weight/runway conditions. A week later & the luggage still hasn't arrived back in Guernsey. One has to ask if the ATR is indeed an ideal a/c for a route such as this where pax will have heavier/bulkier baggage than some other flights they operate?

tin canary

23rd Jan 2010, 18:37

Bearing in mind the awful conditions that w/e its lucky it went at all... 1200m in snow at Grenoble when it left and all close by alternates shut, necessitating extra fuel etc. Apparently some charter flights that arrived that day had been waiting a day or two from LGW to get there.
Of course it shouldn't take so long to get the bags back in an ideal world, but with a weekly flight they had to 'rush' them back via LGW and of course a lot of the flights that leave GNB at that time of year are pretty well up to the limit.

As far as i am aware, this is the first time this has happened and this is the third year of charters. The first was to Lyon St Exupery and last year and this year to GNB. I think you could say it was an unusual set of circumstances.

jam8080

23rd Jan 2010, 19:41

How is the GCI-EMA route holding up? still good load factors, dont want them dropping it again like they did a few years back.

donkeyair

24th Jan 2010, 10:37

I'd imagine that the GCI-EMA route is doing OK as GR are operating it as a year round route albiet on a reduced frequency during the winter. During the winter months I'd guess that it is alot of Specsavers staff using this route as they have their head office in Guernsey and now have their UK call centre based in Nottingham.

jubilee

24th Jan 2010, 10:58

Hope they can see where there going.
Jubilee:sad:

five zero by ortac

15th Feb 2010, 18:55

Adverts everywhere saying "beat the fare increase" "book before the 1st March". Anyone know how much the fares are going up ?

Jerbourg

14th Jul 2010, 16:11

According to BBC Guernsey news Blue Islands have put in a bid to buy Aurigny. Does anyone know more?

Aero Mad

14th Jul 2010, 22:08

Don't know, don't want to know, am writing to Treasury and Resources.

Geo73

14th Jul 2010, 22:18

From channelonline.tv this evening...

Aurigny sale to Blue Islands agreed in principle

The Guernsey-owned airline Aurigny is set to be sold to its rival Blue Islands.

The States have agreed in principle with Blue Islands to sell Aurigny and Anglo-Normandy Engineering.

Guernsey orginally bought the airline in order to protect landing slots at Gatwick Airport.

When the States agreed to buy Aurigny in 2003, they made the purchase to protect slots at Gatwick seen as essential to business which can only be owned by an airline. Ever since Aurigny was taken over there's been opposition, mainly from rival airlines. A year ago, Blue Islands' Chief Executive Derek Coates suggested they might merge with Aurigny.

'It dosen't make sense that ultimately we have an airline such as Aurigny costing our taxpayers. It's got to become privatised one day, and I believe that the way that could happen is that we could come together and share our overheads and ensure we have the secure airlinks and we don't beat each other up too much'.

The idea was rubbished at the time by Aurigny's managing director Malcolm Hart: 'The most difficult issue, and probably why it will never happen, is control of the slots at Gatwick. Because you can't have a majority private ownership and still guarantee the island will still have control over those slots. It's something that's hugely difficult to reconcile and it's the least of my worries at the moment frankly'.

The States and Blue Islands will now negotiate terms for two months before a final decision on the sale.

Aero Mad

15th Jul 2010, 11:59

Am I alone in thinking that Aurigny's new slogan, 'Run away to Guernsey', encourages tax evasion? We shan't have to worry after Blue Islands buys it out - the airline will be down the drain within the hour... :(

VOM1T

15th Jul 2010, 12:29

Can't help but disagree with AERO MAD's view, the consolidation of two fine airlines makes sense, as does the return to private ownership from public for Aurigny. Hopefully what will eventually emerge will be a strong airline to serve some important regional markets.

manxwind

15th Jul 2010, 12:47

I agree with VOM1T!

Don't worry about Aero Mad/ Ed (apollodorus) Pinnegar's opinion. He is barely out of nappies.

Drink Up Thee Cider

15th Jul 2010, 13:05

Smacks of a behind the scenes stich up to me. And it looks like Flybe think the same, judging from this, on their website:

Flybe statement on proposed Aurigny sale

Following the news that Aurigny is being sold to Blue Islands without an open bidding process, Flybe has called for a full and independent Inquiry to be urgently convened to examine the matter in detail.

Flybe has the longest unbroken record of service of any airline to Guernsey, has provided lifeline routes to and from the island in good economic times and bad, without recourse to a single penny of public subsidy, and is very disappointed that it has not been invited to make an offer for Aurigny.

Flybe would like to place on the record that it has, since 2003, tabled a number of bids - the last of which was just 18 months ago – to acquire Aurigny. All of these bids have contained an offer of legally binding guarantees to protect the slots at London Gatwick for Guernsey services. To our disappointment, Flybe has been rebuffed by the States on every occasion, the most recent of which was Feb 2010.

Flybe is extremely concerned that the proposed deal between Blue Island and Aurigny will result in yet more taxpayers money being wasted on clearing debts and writing off loans. Flybe confirms that it would be prepared to enter into an open and transparent bidding process that it believes will present a better outcome than the smoke-filled-room solution being promised by Blue Islands.

jerboy

15th Jul 2010, 13:20

Of course Flybe are going to whinge - sounds pretty 'Branson-esque' to me (VS and BA/AA spring to mind); just throwing their toys out the pram.

If they got Aurigny, they would more or less have the monopoly to the UK. You'd see fares sky rocket the day after the deal was completed.

Sadly, Aurigny was never going to be around as it is for much longer; its stuck in its ways, running old aircraft and has been absolutely hammered by Blue Islands. If slightly more progressive management had been at the helm, things might have turned out slightly differently. However, being owned by the States, they could never take too many risks.

Dash-7 lover

15th Jul 2010, 13:30

Dear Flybe

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yawn - ah shut up!

Flybe aquiring Aurigny would not have caused a monopoly??????

Capot

15th Jul 2010, 14:16

The States (and thus unfortunately Guernsey's taxpayers) deserve all they get.

A few years ago they rejected a well-financed offer that would have turned Aurigny into a substantial private sector airline based in the Channel Islands, and owned and supported by shareholders in both main Islands.

The offer protected the LGW route with full legal safeguards.

The relevant politician and civil servant turned the offer down with what amounted to contempt. It was evident that they were barely capable of understanding how the airline industry works, moreover that they did not care so long as their egos were sufficiently massaged.

I hope that Blue Wings prospers, and I'm sure it will. But it could have been a whole lot better for the taxpayers of Guernsey, to say nothing of air services to the Channel Islands in general, had Guernsey's politicians and civil servants been rather better at their jobs.

Aero Mad

15th Jul 2010, 14:54

First of all, let me clarify that I am out of nappies - don't know where you got that from???

I would be perfectly happy for an Aurigny sale to Blue Islands so long as they do not cut routes, however looking at their previous history of such things (Alderney - Bournemouth, Jersey, Shoreham, Cherbourg. Guernsey - Bournemouth, Biggin Hill, Oxford, St Brieuc. Jersey - Dinard, Paris), I'm just not convinced. Over a 10 year period, that rate of cutting is very unusual for an airline.

What worries me is their Alderney routes. They say that there is no immediate replacement for the Trislander. This is untrue. There is the GECI Skylander, the Twin Otter, the Islander, the Trislander (newbuild from BN if 3 orders are placed + glass cockpits et cetera) and the Dornier 228. Given their history of Alderney routes, they might use this as an excuse to pull out all together. And then Aurigny won't be there to come to the rescue.

Hope you can understand my worries.

jerboy

15th Jul 2010, 15:47

Capot. And you clearly know about the whole situation... Let's hope that "Blue Wings" do well out of it!

kuningan

15th Jul 2010, 17:45

Much as I'm no fan of the concept of Aurignyflot, the practice over the last couple of years has been much better than Fly-when-we-want-to-be, or indeed Blue-blink-and-you-miss-dropped-routes-Islands.

Also not sure that Mr Coates vitamin empire is a secure footing for long-term success - the VAT exemption on goods shipped from the C-I is being looked at with an uncharitable eye by the UK Govt - so it would be interesting to see what a 17.5% (soon enough 20%) increase to his retail price would do to his business model.....

Also why scrap the Aurigny brand? Surely that's stronger and has better awareness than 'Blue Islands', which is but a few years old? Strikes me as 'corporate machismo', rather than good business sense.

This will end in tears......the States can waste many times more in a year than Aurigny costs them.....

Aero Mad

15th Jul 2010, 22:48

kuningan, you just voiced my thoughts exactly. why scrap a 40 year old (successful brand)? suppose blue circle are rubbing salt in open wounds that they won this one! so long as they give up their policy of route cutting, good luck to them and i look forward to seeing a successful channel islands airline that doesn't need taxpayers money.

Jerbourg

16th Jul 2010, 12:41

Kuningan, I agree the Aurigny brand is a far stronger one than BI. Even many islanders still haven't a clue Blue Islands are. (I expect the media coverage in the last few days will change that tho).

kuningan

16th Jul 2010, 15:21

Aurigny has been in business since 1968, Blue Islands since 2006 (before that Rockhopper, before that Le Cocq's - three name changes in a decade!).

A simple check of web stats shows Aurigny.com much higher ranked (#81,000 in the UK) than Blue Islands (#136,000) - so WHY dump the stronger brand in favour of the weaker one. I can only assume 'vanity'.

And how can Blue Islands - who lost as much money as Aurigny on a much smaller business be 'better run'? Because these aren't 'losses' but 'investment':ugh:

Finally, which airline has 11 aircraft in (effectively) two types, and which 8 in five? I know which I'd think was better run!

I hope the States has the wit to chuck this out.....

GAMPY

16th Jul 2010, 15:59

Nowhere have I read that the Aurigny brand is to be abandoned by Blue Islands!

kuningan

16th Jul 2010, 16:40

"Final Departure" (http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/07/16/final-departure/)

oldshoreham

16th Jul 2010, 23:33

He is barely out of nappies. Quite the reverse - it seems he's a good deal better informed than Derek Coates about the suitability of planes for Alderney.

On current statements about Trislanders being "the OAPs of the skies", ignoring Britten Norman's current renewal of the availability of the marque, and in saying that no there are no suitable replacements, it looks as though Alderney will be as bereft of BI flights as Shoreham. Not good if there's no public service facility available. Looks like economic death to the island.

Am I alone in my hatred of travelling through Gatwick? SOU is a tedious train ride or car journey.

With competent marketing this side of the water, routes, the islands and the airlines could be in a good deal healthier position now. A merger won't bring better competence to the equation.

Best wishes

OldShoreham