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View Full Version : A sign of the times ? Police Officer denied posthumous award


Krystal n chips
16th Feb 2006, 12:57
It would seem he did not fulfil the specified criteria---precisely what this is I have no idea---neither, clearly, do the Home Office "very important persons" who made the decision. No further comment other than to say "congratulations chaps"----please don't whinge too much next time you need an Officer in a hurry !:mad:

I read that there were several operational failings in this tragedy and wonder if, being slightly cynical by nature, this could have had any bearing on the decision ?

More tea Cur Humphrey ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4718992.stm

G-CPTN
16th Feb 2006, 13:01
There may be a difference between 'bravely tackling a suspect whilst unarmed' and 'foolishly exposing one's self to un-necessary risk'.

UniFoxOs
16th Feb 2006, 13:20
Extract from the Royal Warrant instituting the George Cross, the award requested by the Chief Constable.

"Fifthly: It is ordained that the Cross shall be awarded only for acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger, and that the Cross may be awarded posthumously."

Does this fit the circumstances? Or should the CC have applied for a lesser award with more chance of getting it?

UFO

Footnote, a quote from another web site indicates the type of action meriting this award:-

"Some recent awards:

Air Stewardess Barbara Harrison who was posthumously honoured in 1969 who helped many passengers escape after a fire crippled a BOAC jet at Heathrow airport before perishing in the wreck."

ExSimGuy
16th Feb 2006, 15:40
I've already written to the Constabulary, to ask if there's an email addy for the "Higher Powers" who deemed Steven Oakes not worthy of a GC.

He grappled with a knife-wielding terrorist, knowing that his colleagues had already been injured, and that he was un-armed and un-armoured.

Maybe he should have just let the [email protected] leg it, but then someone else may have been killed, or the shighte may have managed to let loose ricin on the public at a later date.

Next time one of our cops is threatened by a knife, a gun, a bomb, he might just decide it's not worth leaving a wife and three kids with a paltry 52 grand "compensation" and just let the terrorist go on his merry way.

Disgusted of the Middle-East

WorkingHard
16th Feb 2006, 15:46
ExSimGuy - I understand feelings may run high on this one but consider if he met the criteria laid down. I really do not know. In days gone by many would have come to the aid of any policeman but now to do so leaves one open to charges of ??what GBH ABH etc. He was paid to do the job and he did what he thought was best in the circumstances. That he should die in the process is extremely tragic and we must look to why the public will not help. I am not being critical of said constable merely hypothesising.

ExSimGuy
16th Feb 2006, 16:16
Working Hard - I didn't hear of the matter at the time (living in the Sand Dunes and no sat TV or decent internet access) and only picked it up this morning on the BBC web news.

Looking at the criteria, as posted in part just above this post, and reading the (original) story through several web links earlier today, seems to me that he DID satisfy the criteria.

Yes, I agree that it's a shame that people won't assist these days, or are afraid to end up in the sh1t if they do (although this happened inside the "terror cell" house, so very unlikely there would have been any "bystanders")

But a very sad comment on our society that we compensate the family a pittance (3 years salary?) and won't honour a brave man who died to try to keep us safe from poison attacks that could have had similar effects as the attacks of last July.

If I was one of those responsible for this insult, I certainly would be sleeping a very disturbed sleep tonight:*

WorkingHard
16th Feb 2006, 16:21
ExSimGuy, I agree with all you say. We (the people) do not make the rules remember, we are here just for the benefit of politicians and the PC brigade. Cynical? Yes. grumpy old man? Yes. Proud to be British? Well I was but not quite so sure these days. If the constable met the criteria then he should be awarded it. Is there any race, colour or creed criteria crept in these days per chance?

G-CPTN
16th Feb 2006, 17:40
Just what is the different circumstances between the case mentioned above and those of the two shot WPCs? They were 'doing their duty' and attempting to apprehend offenders (who turned out to be superiorly armed). Do they not, therefore deserve the GC?

doublesix
16th Feb 2006, 18:10
G-CPTN.

Steve Oake saw that two of his colleagues had been injured by this knife wielding madman and went to their aid without any thought for his own safety.Believe me as someone who knew Steve personally, he would have done the same if it had been you or one of your family being attacked.In those circumstances would you think he was being 'foolish' in his actions?
The two police officers in Bradford were responding to a call and didn't know what was happening until it literally happened. Shot by a fleeing robber.A very tragic incident but unfortunately an incident that could happen hundreds of times a day when police attend an alarm or any other call.

ExSimGuy
16th Feb 2006, 18:48
2 x 6, I was going to PM you, but then decided this might be a better way of publicising the idea. You say you knew Steven - Maybe you have an email address that I could use (and others) to express our disgust that the idea of a GC was turned down?

If you know his family, perhaps you would add my feelings to I'm sure many others as to the way that they, and Steve's memory, have been snubbed by "Powers That Be"

As for the two recent WPCs - yes, horrible, tragic, disgusting, but as has been posted, they did not "knowingly walk into harms way" as did Steven Oakes. RIP all, I'm sure that He will judge all of them accordingly with their devotion to duty and the circumstances of their deaths.

My son-in-law is a cop - but he has the option of the 9mm, works in PHL so (if he can actually fire it accurately! - dubious training facilities!) can defend himself from armed terrorists, but I still worry about the danger to him and the possible consequences to my daughter if anything happened

Out there he has the "big" 9mm and ballistic kevlar armour when on-duty, but still carries a short-barrel when "out with the family" because they have been threatened by past "customers" who in reality should probably still be locked up.

terryJones
16th Feb 2006, 19:01
Well, given that "At Downing Street a spokesman for Tony Blair said: "It would be wrong for the prime minister to get involved. There is no precedent for the prime minister to get involved."
I for one have forwarded the above link to my MP, saying that there has to be a first, and a added question. 'Is there any truth in the rumour that had the officer been of ethnic origin the outcome may have been different?'

G-CPTN
16th Feb 2006, 19:03
G-CPTN.
Steve Oake saw that two of his colleagues had been injured by this knife wielding madman and went to their aid without any thought for his own safety.Believe me as someone who knew Steve personally, he would have done the same if it had been you or one of your family being attacked.In those circumstances would you think he was being 'foolish' in his actions?

No, certainly not, and I apologise for my ignorance in this case. My 'comparison' was not aimed at degrading the actions of this brave officer, merely questioning where the dividing line would be drawn between 'action above and beyond the call of duty' and 'in the line of duty'.

IB4138
16th Feb 2006, 19:30
In view of Tony Bliar not wanting to get involved, suggest we all letter HRM with objection now, to him ever being Knighted or made a Lord.:mad:

He is not now, never has been and never will be worthy.

eal401
16th Feb 2006, 19:39
He grappled with a knife-wielding terrorist, knowing that his colleagues had already been injured, and that he was un-armed and un-armoured.
I wasn't aware of these facts. If this was the case, then yes some suitable award is required. Nuff said.

doublesix
16th Feb 2006, 20:02
Ex Sim Guy

Thanks for your comments. In my time as a cop I got to know Steve on a first name basis although we worked in different departments. I also knew his dad Robin during his time as a GMP oficer. I never had the privelage of meeting Steve's wife Lesley or family and consequently don't have a way of contacting them. I've no doubt they have their own views on this issue but maybe they don't want to get involved in a 'public debate'.
If you want to register your views may I suggest you e-mail the GMP website.
Thanks again .

doublesix
16th Feb 2006, 20:09
I wasn't aware of these facts. If this was the case, then yes some suitable award is required. Nuff said.
Where does it say that in any of the thread?

tony draper
16th Feb 2006, 20:18
I think the offer of a peerage is automatic for ex PMs now, they do not have to accept of course,saves the new leader having the embaressment of the old king sitting on the back benches glowering at him/her,so they are kicked upstairs.
:rolleyes:

lexxity
16th Feb 2006, 20:29
It is an absolute disgrace that this brave Officer was given any medal.

Here are a few details about the man who killed Steve Oake, Bourgass is serving life for murder. He also got a 17-year stretch for plotting to manufacture poisons and explosives.

How many lives did Office Oake actually save? I suspect it was actually more than two.

Bloody disgrace.

doublesix
16th Feb 2006, 21:01
So much for my computer skills!!
EAL's quote is what I meant to say. Sorry!!

ExSimGuy
17th Feb 2006, 03:43
DoubleSix - I have been to the GMP web site, and there's a "web form" there to contact them, which I did, describing my feelings in no uncertain terms!

The form is at http://www.gmp.police.uk/complaints.htm (http://www.gmp.police.uk/complaints.htm) and "can be used for complaints or praise".

Trouble is, I know I'm "preaching to the choir" by contacting them. I guess I could write to my MP - if I had one! Been out of the country a long time and I'm not on any electoral role.