Turkish Airlines THY, off the runway at JFK airport

[lorddee]

jUST HEARD WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A TUrkish airlines jet report flames at jfk.
Fire equipment on way ...hope nothing too serious

[Airbubba]

Feb 12, 10:39 PM EST

Plane Skids Off N.Y. Runway; No Injuries

NEW YORK (AP) -- A Turkish Airways flight skidded off a runway at John F. Kennedy International Airport Sunday, but none of the 198 passengers were injured, a regional transportation spokesman said.

Turkish Airways flight 1 skidded off the runway at 9:20 p.m. as it was landing following a record-breaking snowstorm, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

___________________________________

Current braking on 04R is reported as poor, the sand trucks are supposed to come out as soon as the arrivals are halted.

[TCPILOT]

Does anyone have any further info on the incident that occured. It was just heard on the news as a short news flash, very breif.
:hmm:
keep flying
keep smiling

[crazypilot]

NEW YORK - A Turkish Airlines flight skidded off a runway at John F. Kennedy International Airport Sunday night, but none of the 198 passengers was injured, a regional transportation spokesman said.
The airport was closed for much of the day as a record-breaking snowstorm hit the region. Turkish Airlines flight 1 was among a few running late Sunday, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
The plane slid off the runway as it arrived from Turkey at 9:20 p.m., Coleman said.
It was unclear whether the weather was responsible for the incident, said Jim Peters, a New York spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.
"The weather will be considered, and we'll talk to the crew," he said. "The surface of the runway is one of the things that we'll look at."
The weather made it difficult for crews to tow the Airbus 340 plane off the runway following the skid, he said. Passengers were taken off the aircraft more than an hour after the incident.
A call to a New York number for Turkish Airlines was not immediately returned Sunday.
All three of the region's major airports had been closed earlier in the day after a record storm blanketed the city in more than two feet of snow. Tens of thousands of air travelers were stranded.
By Sunday evening, both Kennedy and Newark had reopened with limited service, though Delta and other airlines opted to cancel all flights until Monday.

[Stu_Pidazzo]

I've always wondered what is the penalty of being a crew from a foreign nation doing something like this. Will there be some sort of certificate action against the crew from the Turkish version of the Federal aviation administration if there is such a thing? They can't be busted by the US FAA can they? I wouldn't think they could. Assuming it was crew error of course.

[Lou Scannon]

Stu Piddazo:

At the moment there is nothing to suggest any error by the crew until your, probably ill-informed, post.

Having slid around JFK myself on many occasions I know how difficult it can be to guarantee a decent surface for aircraft manoeuvres.

...so let's wait for a while to see what actually happened.

[guclu]

Appreciate more information on subject and if you saw a photo on the web please put the link also here.

Thanks

[tolgab]

what is it with the planes skidding off runways all over these days? Is it simply better media coverage or is something seriously going wrong?

How many skids off the runway was it since few months? The couple in States one killing a child in a cab, another in Luton closing the airport for quite a while, was there also an Airfrance somewhere??? can anyone remember? I can't remember how many but sure been hearing too many planes skidding off...

[guclu]

Latest news I have,

The A/C landed on RWY 31L. Normal landing. When the reversers are stowed the number 2 reverse remained open. Which caused the A/C to start to rotate.

Minor damage to the A/C. The front wheel tires and the right main wheel tires need to be changed.

[Stu_Pidazzo]

What was the braking action at that point i wonder? Nil

[jondc9]

it is so difficult to get the story straight early on. to the person who indicated difficulty stowing #2 reverser, thank you. even if your info is wrong, thanks for something very interesting to ponder.

an AP article said the plane had cleared the runway and on the taxi way spun around.

somehow I don't think the #2 reverser is the cause, though I could be wrong. if properly functioning the throttle could not be advanced in forward thrust. but again, too soon to really know.

I've seen too many decent approaches and landing ruined by a quick exit onto a very slippery taxi way. a prudent pilot should come to a straight stop on the runway. then, carefully maneuver off the runway onto the taxi way very slowly.

I saw one cocky captain (when I was an f/o) exit the runway. I said, be careful , the atis said this taxi way is slippery. he told me to shut the @#$ up. 2 seconds later we were slipping out of control, I shouted, "REVERSE".

we stopped.

I didn't fly with that a@#$%^&*() anymore.

j

[DownIn3Green]

Stu,

Don't know about the Turkish DGCA (although I once had a B-727 and B-737 endorsement on my FAA certificate from them) but as far as the FAA is concerned if you are exercising the privleges of your FAA ATP under the endorsement of a foreign entity they (the FAA) could care less what you do as long as the a/c has a registration starting with anything except "N".

[FlyVMO]

I saw a picture of the A/C on the local news last night in a "blizzard overview", the no 2 reverser was open and the no. 1 was not, couldn't see the backdrop/location as the photo was close up or severely cropped, looking at the A/c from just aft of the left wing.. Didn't think all that much of it at the time, although it seemed odd. Not speculating as to whether it was the cause of this mishap, just reporting what I observed. NYC was a mess at the time and Im sure JFK was no different, glad nobody was hurt.

[lomapaseo]

it is so difficult to get the story straight early on. to the person who indicated difficulty stowing #2 reverser, thank you. even if your info is wrong, thanks for something very interesting to ponder.
an AP article said the plane had cleared the runway and on the taxi way spun around.
somehow I don't think the #2 reverser is the cause, though I could be wrong. if properly functioning the throttle could not be advanced in forward thrust. but again, too soon to really know.
I've seen too many decent approaches and landing ruined by a quick exit onto a very slippery taxi way. a prudent pilot should come to a straight stop on the runway. then, carefully maneuver off the runway onto the taxi way very slowly.
I saw one cocky captain (when I was an f/o) exit the runway. I said, be careful , the atis said this taxi way is slippery. he told me to shut the @#$ up. 2 seconds later we were slipping out of control, I shouted, "REVERSE".
we stopped.
I didn't fly with that a@#$%^&*() anymore.
j


Something wrong here with the report, I suspect.

In all most circumstances the pilot would have stored all reversers before taking the taxi way, including having reduced speed so low as that the reversers are insignificant compared to braking.

Yes I agree that if somehow an unstowed reverser went to full thrust it would cause a problem, but that should be an extremly remote possibility. The only event I can think of with a runaway engine coming out of reverse was PA45 LHR-DTW and even then the reverser was stowed.

[JW411]

I will freely admit that 20 years have passed since I was based at JFK flying DC-10s.

One crystal-clear winter's night we were approaching JFK from the south. I used to put the No.3 VHF on to the Kennedy Tower frequency and give it to the F/E to listen to as to whether aircraft were ACTUALLY landing or not (this could be a big help whilst going round the Mickey hold for ever and an end).

The ATIS was giving CAVU conditions with no problems but my F/E reported that every second aircraft seemed to be making a go-around.

We were eventually vectored to finals on 31R behind a DC-8. Sure enough, he went around much to our amazement.

My F/O landed the aircraft very nicely and applied reverse thrust and the brakes but nothing much happened. He had full brakes on and kept them on. Normally we would have come out of reverse at 60 knots (for FOD avoidance) but we still had full reverse applied when we came to a halt with the flight deck over the grass at the end of 31R. Luckily the nosewheel was still on the tarmac.

We were then cleared to make a left on the outer but we slid past that, once again with full brakes and full reverse and just made it on to the inner.

We were then told by Ground that we were the 5th aircraft to make this "mistake". My suggestion that they get out there bloody quickly with some grit was treated with a stoney silence.

There was no mention of lack of braking action on the ATIS nor was it mentioned by anyone else. (Such was the case when a friend of mine went off the end at Logan in N113WA).

What am I trying to say? Probably that the NY Air Trafficers are brilliant at getting you in and out of JFK but once you are on the ground, you have possibly just entered the biggest zoological garden in the world! There is a huge difference between the FAA and the New York Port Authority.

For those of you who have yet to figure out why every second aeroplane was making a go-around it was simply that the previous aircraft was unable to get off the runway in the usual expeditious fashion.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I landed at JFK just after 04R was opened after 31L was closed by the A345. Braking action on 04R was reported as fair but rapidly altered to poor after the first couple of aircraft had landed. Similar story on the taxi ways.

We heard at least one aircraft go around for the very reasons you described.

A lot of guys and girls earned their flying pay that night.

:ok:

[goinggrey]

Landed in Boston Logan 04R that evening - in the worst snowstorm on record along the Eastern seaboard! 26.9" snow fell on Central Park, NYC, that afternoon, Boston got 16" snow that evening.
Stu Pidazzo!
please, lets not assume
until the experts have completed and published the thorough investigation your comments exceed the aspirations, abilities and expertise of the Investigating Authorities in instant analysis.
What happened is readily available :
photos, video, transscripts, CVR, FDR
THE BIG PICTURE:
WHY DID IT HAPPEN?
HOW DO WE PREVENT IT AGAIN?
Stu, Constructive suggestions welcome

[Jambo Buana]

You think Ryanair have got problems? These guys seem to have a regular shunt every few years. Can the ECAC states ignore this appauling safety record? Should these guys be black listed as was Turkish airline Onur air last year? TK have had 823 fatalities since 1974 and numerous accidents that didnt quite kill anyone. This JFK incident is another on this long list.

Maybe considering a lot of these accidents happened in poor weather, the Turkish CAA might consider giving their ex military fast jet pilots some additional IFR training prior to a JAR25 conversion course, also some real CRM training too. Remember the cockpit bust up between two TK pilots in an A340 over Singapore?

This is a small airline!!!

========================================================

26 January 1974; THY F28-1000; Izmir, Turkey: The aircraft had an accident during takeoff. Four of the five crew members and 62 of the 68 passengers were killed.


3 March 1974; THY DC10; near Paris, France: During climb, a rear cargo door which was improperly closed blew out. The resulting cabin decompression caused damage to the main cabin floor and to some control cables in the area. The crew was unable to control the aircraft and the plane crashed. All 333 passengers and 12 crew were killed.


30 January 1975; THY F28-1000; Istanbul, Turkey: The aircraft had an accident during landing. All four crew members and 37 passengers were killed.


19 September 1976; THY 727-200; near Isparta, Turkey: The aircraft struck a mountain during the approach. All eight crew members and 146 passengers were killed.


23 December 1979; THY F28-1000; near Ankara, Turkey: The aircraft had a catastrophic in flight structural failure due to severe turbulence. Three of the four crew members and 36 of the 39 passengers were killed.


14 October 1980; THY 727; Diyarbakir, Turkey : One passenger was killed during a hijacking.


16 January 1983; THY 727-200; Ankara, Turkey: The aircraft crashed about 500 feet (150m) short of runway during poor visibility (fog and snow) and possibly wind shear. There were 47 fatalities among the 60 passengers.


29 December 1994; THY Turkish Airlines 737-400; near Van, Turkey: The aircraft hit a hill four km from the airport during the plane's fourth landing attempt. Six of the seven crew members and 49 of the 55 passengers were killed


8 January 2003; Turkish Airlines RJ100; Diyarbakir, Turkey:
The aircraft had departed from Istanbul and crashed shortly before landing in Diyarbakir, a city near Turkey's border with Iraq. Four of the five crew members and 71 of the 75 passengers were killed in the crash.
Fatal RJ70/RJ100 Events

[goinggrey]

THE BIG PICTURE:
WHY DID IT HAPPEN?
HOW DO WE PREVENT IT AGAIN?
Twelve months ago we were discussing the 747-200 exit? from JFK RW 04R
see
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=764263&size=L&sok=&photo_nr=

[Bearcat]

a thy 737 took an excursion off 23R at EDDL recently.