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OneWorld22
6th Feb 2006, 22:19
An astonishing figure, putting us in the top 10 of countries to visit (non-immigrants)
During the christmas period the figure was 100,000!
For a country with just 4 million people, that's pretty incredible. But then the Irish always had a strong love affair with America...

The average stay for Irish visitors during 2004 was 14 nights, according to the US Office of Travel and Tourism Industries, and the average amount of money spent per day was EURO104.78 ($126).

More than half, or 53 per cent, visited New York city and almost one in four, or 23 per cent, rented a car during their stay in the US.
Commenting at the weekend, Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern said: "It's mind-boggling to see the level of travel by Irish people but it's one of the clear manifestations of an economy that is very, very healthy and long may it last from our point of view."

Ireland is far ahead of most of its EU partners in terms of visits to the US. Figures for 2004 were as follows: Austria 152,850; Belgium 209,586; Denmark 187,613; Finland 102,366; Greece 61,699; Poland 172,956; Portugal 99,368; Sweden 309,334.

Mr Ahern said the statistics illustrated the reason the Government was pressing ahead with the updating of Irish passports to meet the latest US technical criteria "in order to ensure that our people would not be prevented from going in and out to America".

bradfordboy
6th Feb 2006, 22:50
Did any come back???;) ;)

Willows
7th Feb 2006, 02:48
Yeah, "Non-immigrants". :rolleyes: :} hehe

It's good to see. Is there figures for people who visit Ireland?

Metro man
7th Feb 2006, 03:33
Ireland today is a totally different place to the basket case it was 30 years ago. I remember reading an advert in an Australian paper wanting construction workers for Ireland !

Ireland now has one of the worlds highest standards of living so its people can afford to travel.

Those who mock the Irish these days only show how behind the times they are.

419
7th Feb 2006, 07:04
Is that 1/2 million Irish people who are resident in Ireland, or 1/2 million people of Irish descent?
I find the first figure a bit hard to believe. That would make it approx 1 in 8 Irish residents visited the USA last year.

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 07:21
Irish passport holders, so yes of course Irish citizens.

Don't forget an army of students leaves here every summer to go to the US to work and have the time of their lives

Ireland has the 4th highest GDP per capita in the world, way ahead now of the UK I'm afraid to inform you, so yes, the people can certainly afford to travel now!

UniFoxOs
7th Feb 2006, 07:41
I don't believe it. It is not possible for that many people to get into the USA in one year nowadays, it takes too long to be checked by the DHS.

UFO

Maple 01
7th Feb 2006, 08:07
Irish passport holders, so yes of course Irish citizens.
I've got one of those, but I'm no more Irish than Emon De Valera or Shane MacGowan - seems a high figure
BTW not counting Aer Lingus crews are we? ;)

Bearcat
7th Feb 2006, 08:18
nice one rob

powdermonkey
7th Feb 2006, 08:23
100,000? I thought my local was a bit quiet on Christmas eve. That explains it now:D

Sammie_nl
7th Feb 2006, 08:28
maybe it's got something to do with the fact that the pubs are closed for one day during christmas. I can remember drinking in New York on the 25th of december in a bar, but the next year I had no such luck in Dublin.

I wonder how many Polish went on "holiday" to Ireland, good people though

Taildragger55
7th Feb 2006, 08:56
250,000 of tehm had been queueing since 2004.

I would not doubt it; at a friend's house recently when his aged mother appeared, bitterly bewailing the lack of decent restaurants at reasonable prices in Mahnattan.

I think we have about 100,000 Eastern Europeans here, busily building dodgy apartments. At a talk a few weeks back, a Bank of Ireland economist said we had full employment in 2004, and full emplyment with an extra 100,000 in work in 2005, 70,000 from overseas.

It'll end in tears.

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 09:33
God sake, all these bloody doubting Thomas's...

look, the figures come from official, US Govt Sources,

According to the official figures from the US Office of Immigration Statistics supplied to The Irish Times, there were almost as many non-immigrant visitors from Ireland in 2004 as from the entire African continent. The total number of African visitors was 432,314 compared to 429,940 from Ireland.

It's very easy to get the information, all visitors are logged at immigration.

It's not hard to beleoive at all, the amount of people who head over to NYC for a weekend shopping is staggering...Everyone here seems to go to the US.

Theree is 120,000 poles here now, all legal and extrmemely popular. They are ranked number 1 in preference of nationality by Irish Employers as they work bloody hard and do the jobs that irish people noe consider beneath them! There are churches who conduct mass now in polish on Sundays, polish shops, restaurants even pubs!

In some areas Poles now make up 10% of the population and seem every popular with the local communities who even celebreate Polish holdiays with them

BRL
7th Feb 2006, 10:03
Ireland, what a great place. I love going over there for a long weekend, something I do quite a lot actually. I go to a cottage that is in the middle of no-where(Co Clare), seven miles from the nearest pub or shop! It is brilliant and so quiet as you could imagine.

A lot has changed in even the last ten years or so, so many new properties going up at the moment, places like Ennis and Galway seeming a lot busier these days, oh, and the Guinness does taste better over there!

I was suprised to hear though that it is still a 'third-world' country.

ronnie3585
7th Feb 2006, 12:38
I was suprised to hear though that it is still a 'third-world' country.


Where did you hear it was a third world country?

Metro man
7th Feb 2006, 12:51
There are (rough figures) 3 1/2 million people living in Ireland and 13 million Irish passports in issue. Due to the advantage of visa free travel to the USA the Irish passport would be the preferred travel document for many people.

It would be interesting to know how many of the 500 000 who visited the USA were Irish residents as opposed to Irish passport holders.

your_not_serious
7th Feb 2006, 13:04
Where did you hear it was a third world country?
1) Filthy,overcrowded hospitals
2) Gridlock on our roads(Most people are spending between one third and one half of their working lives again....just commuting)
3) Overcrowded classrooms and run down schools
4) Rip Off prices on all essentials.
5) Sinn Fein/IRA to hold the balance of power after the next election?....at worst the one after ...
6) One in five our our people still live below the poverty line(ESRI figures for 2000)
7) The chronic lack of political leadership.......
8) Mediocrity is endemic.
Still.....everyone has pots of money so thats O.K. then.

Sammie_nl
7th Feb 2006, 13:32
some possible explainations/sollutions

2) Gridlock on our roads(Most people are spending between one third and one half of their working lives again....just commuting)
Try pedal power, works wonders within the Dublin area. It would only take me 30 minutes to get from Tallagh to the City Centre in rush hour, whereas the Bus or car would take longer and parking seems near impossible in the centre. Only Luas can offer an alternative, but with just two lines its just not enough.

4) Rip Off prices on all essentials
But free water, which is pretty uncommon in the rest of Europe. But yeah, beer and other grocery things are rather expencive. Most of the stuff has to be shipped I guess.

6) One in five our our people still live below the poverty line(ESRI figures for 2000)
Not sure on the precise details, but the poverty line in Ireland is measured as percentage of the average income. The average income grew considerable faster then inflation during the Celtic Tiger and in the years afterwards. While welfare and low income only grew at the same rate of inflation. This resulted that it seems that more people became poor when compared to the rest of the population. But in real terms or in purchasing power terms poverty seems to have stayed the same or declined.


But off course not all is well in Ireland, but at least there are different things troubling Ireland then 20 or 30 years ago, which can be seen as progress.

Biggles Flies Undone
7th Feb 2006, 13:45
Ireland has the 4th highest GDP per capita in the world, way ahead now of the UK I'm afraid to inform you, so yes, the people can certainly afford to travel now!

"E.U. Structural and Cohesion Funds have been one of the contributing factors to Ireland’s recent economic growth. Total investment under two programming periods 1989 to 1999 will amount to approximately €30 billion, with the Structural Funds and Cohesion Funds contributing €11 billion (this figure includes the C.S.F.’s 1989-1993 and 1994-1999, Community Initiatives and Cohesion Funds). This financial support has enabled Ireland to proceed with its planned upgrade of the roads network, education and training, and the productive sector.
Since joining the E.U. in 1973 Ireland has received over €17 billion in E.U. Structural and Cohesion Funds support (to end 2003). Under the current programming period 2000-2006, Ireland will receive €3.35 billion from the Structural Funds. The Cohesion Fund contributed €586m to Ireland during the period 2000-2003."

More here (http://www.csfinfo.com/htm/overview/structural_funds.htm).

Onan the Clumsy
7th Feb 2006, 13:48
So is it 500,000 or 429,940?

429,940 is only 86% of 500,000. That's a significant statistical difference. Would you overlook a 14% pay cut?

birdlady
7th Feb 2006, 13:49
Proudly Irish :ok: :ok: :ok:

Would I live there again.... hell would have to freeze over and pigs would have to learn to fly then I might consider it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 14:12
BFU, I think you've trotted out this tired old whinge about Ireland only being wealthy before due to EU funds....

I can trot out the Economist article last year if you want explaining exactly why Ireland is now a wealthy country if you want?

The EU funds have not made Ireland wealthy, they have contributed to infrastructure upgrades. It's the Irish education system turning out out the "right" kind of employees that american companies in particular love to hire, the Govt support that they get which is unmatched in Europe and the low taxes that have resulted in Ireland getting 25% of all US inward Investment to the EU!

I still laugh at the way the Colonel Blimps in the UK refuse to accept the modern Ireland of today!

Biggles Flies Undone
7th Feb 2006, 14:16
BFU, I think you've trotted out this tired old whinge about Ireland only being wealthy before due to EU funds....
Actually, I haven't, OW22 - and I generally avoid this type of willy-waving thread. I'm no fan at all of the EU and I wish England could leave its corrupt bureaucracy - so it's nothing personal against the Irish.

strafer
7th Feb 2006, 14:46
Oneworld - they may only have contributed to infrastructure changes (which isn't entirely true) but that still means that less of your own GDP has to be spent on that. You know as well as I do that the Republic is a forest of blue EU signs.

North men, South men
Comrades all
Belfast, Dublin
Cork & Senegal ;)

BRL
7th Feb 2006, 15:11
Where did you hear it was a third world country?
It is just common knowledge isn't it. That is why it gets so much money from the EU.

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 15:17
Oh take a hike BRL.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

only country that can be called third world is the UK mate!

Ireland is easily the best country in the world to inhabit, according to a quality of life survey which relegates the United Kingdom to a second-division ranking.

The ambitious attempt to compare happiness around the world is based on the principle that wealth is not the only measure of human satisfaction.

The index of 111 states, produced by the Economist Intelligence Unit and released yesterday, combines data on incomes, health, unemployment, climate, political stability, job security, gender equality as well as what the magazine calls "freedom, family and community life".

Displayed on a notional scale of one to 10, rain-washed Ireland emerges with a gleaming top score of 8.33, well ahead of second-place Switzerland which manages 8.07. The UK languishes in 29th place on 6.92, narrowly in front of South Korea (6.88). Zimbabwe, racked by political insecurity and hunger, is rated the gloomiest, picking up only 3.89 points.

Irish wealth generation has nothing to do with EU structual funds! Have you guys never studied economics?

typical really, I start a thread on US Govt Figures showing Irish visitors to the US, an astonishing figure and first we get the nay-sayers and then somehow, we get around to Ireland's economy and the Begrudging Brits whining about Ireland and the EU!

strafer
7th Feb 2006, 15:31
I would have responded to the the Irish education system turning out out the "right" kind of employees that american companies in particular love to hire comment as well, but I was laughing too hard.

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 15:32
Laugh away mate, we're the ones with full employment! :p :p

PPRuNe Radar
7th Feb 2006, 15:40
It's the Irish education system turning out out the "right" kind of employees that american companies in particular love to hire, the Govt support that they get which is unmatched in Europe and the low taxes that have resulted in Ireland getting 25% of all US inward Investment to the EU!

Indeed, but is the Celtic Tiger watching its back or getting too complacent ?? China and India will offer much more in the way of choice and incentives in the years to come so expect an exodus of companies to cheaper equally highly skilled labour sources in the name of globalised economy. Make sure you have a plan B ... that doesn't rely on the EU agricultural subsidies :ok:

The Irish Ferries dispute has already rattled the sabres.

Slan go foil !!

slim_slag
7th Feb 2006, 15:45
OW22, Any British/Irish banter was started by you.

Re US visits by the Irish. Did you know the only way Ireland got into the US Visa Waiver program was by agreeing to have US immigration pre-clear US bound flights out of Dublin? They wouldn't have qualified otherwise. I believe US immigration still has its desks there :)

con-pilot
7th Feb 2006, 15:46
Getting back on topic here, I have had the extreme pleasure of visiting Ireland (and I sure didn't see anything that could be called "Third World") and just last week Mrs. C-P and I met two couples from Ireland in Las Vegas.

So I say to the Irish, come on over anytime you are more than welcome!:ok:

(And if any you get anywhere near Oklahoma please PM me and we'll have a good time.)

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 15:48
Jaysus Radar, have a look at the contribution of Irish agriculture to the economy today and get back to me!

Ireland has moved from low cost employees to a high skill, high R+D base. The recent big moives here by more US corporta egiants shows this.

And the Irish are buying up property around the world at a staggering rate. There is now more Irish property investment now in the UK then there is Saudi investment!

BenThere
7th Feb 2006, 15:48
Though Ireland has been on the receiving end of some EU redistribution, it hasn't been enough to account for its remarkable recent success. More money has gone from the EU to Palestine I would guess. No, the reason is Ireland's move to the right on the socialist continuum, creating a pro-business, job-friendly environment where global enterprises can operate cost-effectively. Simple really.

Ireland is a magical land. There's nowhere I more enjoy visiting. I miss the days when fuel constraints called for the Shannon enroute stopover. The Irish are deeply threaded through American culture, and the small part of my family with Irish roots is unquestioningly the liveliest.

Just saw Tristan and Isolde, one of the few excellent movies of the year.

Are there more Irish in America than in Ireland?

strafer
7th Feb 2006, 15:48
Full(ish) employment and a pact with the devil. Your interest rate in years to come will be set to whatever suits the French & Germans - I hope it doesn't all end in tears.

Are there more Irish in America than in Ireland? No

chuks
7th Feb 2006, 15:52
Ah yes, The Emerald Isle!

How well I remember my last visit, wending my way down one of your rustic motorways, admiring the large signs boasting of how this or that had been funded by the EU in the name of improved infrastructure. The only problem was that the roads actually seemed to be surfaced in some sort of hammered owl shite that had my motorcycle trying to spit me off every time I wound the throttle open past a certain point in the ever-present drizzle. I got the definite impression that not all the funds invested went into the infrastructure, that some may well have been siphoned off. Or is that just another stereotype, corruption in Ireland?

Also, you write that numbers of Irish visitors to New York is staggering. Shouldn't that be that numbers of Irish visitors to New York are staggering? Oops, yet another stereotype!

Many of my family also visited America from Ireland. But that was by cattle boat back around 1880 on a one-way ticket. Some still drivel on sentimentally about the ould sod but I am the only one ever to have bothered going back. Funny thing, that.

I especially enjoyed Irish hospitality, eating my fish dinner out on the patio in the pissing rain, when mine hostess locked the door to the snug behind me. It is good to know that you folks are approaching modernity at such a rate of knots, so that I almost felt as if I were back in New York City. Sat there under a leaky umbrella advertising not Guinness but Stella Artois in the drizzle when I could have been in Portofino, say. I could understand the sort of mindset that must have driven Great Grandfather to book that passage to New York.

Another one would be looking for a B&B as evening shades gathered. Hark! A sign reading 'B&B One Mile...' Off I would go, over hill and dale, dodging sheep and leprechauns and the odd missing patch of EU-sponsored Tarmac. After about 1.5 miles there would come a sign, 'B&B One Mile...' After another 1.5 miles I would reach my goal... not. 'Ah, to be sure, we are closed, you see...'

'So why don't you take down that sign out on the main road then?'

'Oh, that....'

PPRuNe Radar
7th Feb 2006, 16:17
Ireland has moved from low cost employees to a high skill, high R+D base. The recent big moives here by more US corporta egiants shows this.

Best heed the warnings though, they are maybe only there until a better offer comes along. Many economists have seen the danger, so it just depends if their predictions come true or not and to what scale. Make hay while the sun shines. Which leads to agriculture :ok:

The farm subsidies are not small, although dwarfed no doubt by income from the hi tech service industries. Maybe you could just hand them back if they're of no consequence in the big scheme of things. ;) You're richer than the rest of us Europeans anyway ain't you ? :}

Ireland's agricultural sector is the largest per capita beneficiary of the Common Agricultural Policy - almost €500 for each Irish adult and child, paid by other European taxpayers. The net receipts from the EU Budget amounted to €1.6 billion in 2004.

Our total receipts in cash terms since 1973 exceed €36 billion but that gravy train is due to end in 2007 and the Common Agricultural Policy will likely be subject to more reform by 2013.

Lots of useful analysis here. Forewarned is fore armed.

http://www.finfacts.com/

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 17:24
Schmulligan,

Never mind chuks, the bitterness pours from every word....

He was obviously devestated that he didn't find a country full of Leprachauns and Banshees, toothless simpletons digging up turf and comely maidens dancing at the crossroads....His punch cartoon vision of "Oireland" didn't prepare him for the reality!

Begorrah! the man says!


What a pathetic post chuks!


Radar,

Best heed the warnings though, they are maybe only there until a better offer comes along

Well the point is better offers have come along and do come along all the time. From Poland, Latvia, India etc and yet the companies here keep coming. It's not all about low cost, the high skill of irish workers, Govt support plays a huge role too. The transition has been made.

We've listened to the doom merchants like yourself for a long time now and yet the economy still grows and the forecasts from every quarter say it's here to last...so we're doing fine here now, thanks for the advice but, eh, maybe worry about your own backyard before dishing out the advice eh? :)

An economist once wrote that for every €1 Ireland received, €2 has been give away via fishing rights granted to other EU states....



Many outside observers attribute Ireland's success in improving its standard of living over the last 15 years to subsidies from the EU. In fact, though, EU subsidies do nothing but hinder consumer-satisfying economic development.

Agricultural subsidies are one component of EU transfers and are an example of how well-meaning transfers can get in the way of economic development. The subsidies boost rural incomes, but they retard economic adjustment by keeping rural populations artificially high. Some of these workers could produce more valuable products by moving to the cities. As long as people are subsidized to stay in particular professions, Ireland will not fully exploit its comparative advantage in the international division of labor. This depresses incomes and slows growth.

The presence of EU funds retards growth in another way as well. Although the total supply of entrepreneurs varies among societies, the productive contribution of the society's entrepreneurial activities varies much more because of their allocation between productive activities, such as innovation, and unproductive activities, such as lobbying for government subsidies or privileges. The presence of EU funds creates a pot of gold for Irish entrepreneurs to seek. This will cause some entrepreneurs, who were previously engaging in productive and innovative activity, to lobby for subsides instead. This lobbying wastes both physical and human resources that could have been used to satisfy consumer demands and increase economic growth.

Not surprisingly, when comparing EU transfers and economic growth rates, we find no positive relationship.

If the subsidies were a major cause for Ireland's growth, we would expect Ireland's growth to be highest when it was receiving the greatest transfers. But growth rates and net transfers as a percent of GDP have actually moved in opposite directions during Ireland's higher growth rates in the 1990s though.

Ireland began receiving subsidies after joining the European community in 1973. Net receipts from the EU averaged 3 percent of GDP during the period of rapid growth (1995-2000), but during the low growth period (1973-1986) they averaged 4 percent of GDP.

In absolute terms, net receipts were at about the same level in 2001 as they were in 1985. Throughout the 1990s Ireland's payments to the EU budget steadily increased from 359 million Euro in 1990, to 1,527 million Euro in 2000. Yet, in 2000, the receipts in from the EU were 2,488 million Euro, less than the 1991 level of 2,798 million Euro.

Ireland's growth rates have increased while net funds from the EU remained relatively constant and have shrunk in proportion to the size of Ireland's economy.

Ref: Benjamin Powell is a Social Change Fellow at the Mercatus Center in Arlington, Va. He has a forthcoming article "Economic Freedom and Growth: The Case of the Celtic Tiger" in the Winter 2003 Cato Journal, published by the Cato Institute.

BenThere
7th Feb 2006, 17:58
Best heed the warnings though, they are maybe only there until a better offer comes along.

That's the gist of it for all of us isn't it, Radar?

If we all don't continue to produce at a competitive level, the opportunity and fruits of economic activity will find another home. The complacent insulation of a closed, rigid, protective economy has proven ineffective in maintaining the lifestyle everyone wants over time. Competition is a good thing, for it forces us to do the things at which we are best suited, and motivates us to our better efforts so as not to be left behind.

Ireland is successful because it has adopted the formula for success. Should that be abandoned, or even not keep up with the dynamic changes relentlessly occurring in the world, the success Ireland knows today will disappear as you point out.

Maple 01
7th Feb 2006, 17:59
Oh One world - it's too easy.........
What part of Boston are you from again? ;) :ouch:

Jet_A_Knight
7th Feb 2006, 18:05
Can you still trade Butter Vouchers for cigarettes????

10W
7th Feb 2006, 18:21
Who wants to bet their nations GDP on this not going in to the squeaking hamster wheel ?? :p

airship
7th Feb 2006, 18:39
Oi wonder how many Oirishmen visited the USA with their mistresses, only to come home to find this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=210053) ...?! ;)

Maple 01
7th Feb 2006, 19:22
Ooooh, Dublin 4, there's posh!


errr, where's the plastic paddy gone?

Zoom
7th Feb 2006, 21:09
I suppose it would have been 500,002 if Adams and McGuinness were as popular in the USA now as they were 3 or 4 years ago.

OneWorld22
7th Feb 2006, 21:55
Ooooh, Dublin 4, there's posh!

That's D4 to you, peasant.

Maple 01
7th Feb 2006, 22:06
My wife was born there, sure, it's Dublin 4 Yankee! Incomers huh?!

And the Cherry buns in Bewley's aren't as nice as they were either...

powdermonkey
7th Feb 2006, 23:11
I live in D4......not posh though, just well mannered..... and filthy rich! ( I wish ):}
OW22, good on you!
Only comment I have to make on Ireland is that this economy has gone to people's heads, EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING is overpriced and it is mostly due to land and property market values... far too much perceived wealth here.

Nearly Man
8th Feb 2006, 00:40
Why don't 500,000+ Poles, Latvians, Bosnians etc visit the US, and decide it's rather nicer than London ... PLease

arcsecond
8th Feb 2006, 01:40
As a former resident of New York City, I would like coroborate these reports and to thank Ireland for sending over so many of your single young ladies. It certainly kept my time there interesting. For a while there I was starting to think my name really was Seamus.
-James

chuks
8th Feb 2006, 07:46
I just thought I would see how OW22 likes 'incoming' after his puff piece on the Emerald Aisle's bubble prosperity. As to grammar, to say that numbers of Irish visitors is staggering is one thing and to say that they are staggering is something very different, the sort of silly joke that humourless people easily overlook.

It's just that I am a stickler for accuracy. To paint this rose-tinted picture of a backward, still priest-ridden, soggy little island as some sort of glimmering paradise, now colonising New York City with new-found wealth... as a New Yorker might say, 'Puh-leeeze!' The Irish are very welcome to visit New York, along with all the other Third World types; just don't take that for some sort of signal of success. Then, as now, New York City is a big deal; Ireland is basically still a joke.

I quite enjoyed my time in my ancestral homeland. That I was locked out on a patio, well, I just took that for a failure to secure EU funding for a course in hospitality. I had taken due care not to lip off to the sheilah-in-charge so that I maintain any failures there were on the Irish side. Of course I was a bit drippy in my motorcycle rain suit but should that be grounds to lock me out? If I had had any feelings about that I should have been deeply wounded. As it was, I just thought, 'Huh!'

I would advise anyone who thinks I am being unfair simply to visit the Irish Tourist Board here in London. That is at 103 or 105 Wigmore Street. There are next to no signs and the door is kept locked. D'oh!

I think anyone who is so unwise as to float such a target on Jet Blast must be some sort of masochist. Whatever next?

OneWorld22
8th Feb 2006, 07:52
:D :D

My god chuks, that's quite the most bitter, ridiculous post ever posted on JB and that takes some doing! :ok:

All indicators point otherwise, report after report, but then who the hell are the experts, the economists, Academia to say this as opposed to our resident "expert" on all things "Oirish", the great chuks!! :p :p

Every stereotype in the book comes out of his mouth and yet every barb so easily batted away......

The SSK
8th Feb 2006, 10:05
Weekly schedule from Dublin:
Atlanta 7 DL 763s
Boston 7 EI 330s
Chicago 7 EI 330s, 5 AA 763s
Los Angeles 3 EI 332s
Newark 7 CO 752s
Kennedy 7 EI 330s, 7 EI 332s
From Shannon (excl DUB stopovers)
BOS 7 AA 757s
JFK 7 EI 332s
I make that 16522 weekly seats each way, times 52 times 80% load factor is 687315 pax. Not inconceivable that 62% of them are Irish passport holders.
(Based on the winter timetable, if there were more flights in the Summer, that would mean more pax in total, make the numbers even more believable).

slim_slag
8th Feb 2006, 11:54
I am concerned by OW22's use of statistics to prove an unneccessary point, especialy when done in such a boorish manner.
He starts off by claiming "500,000 Irish people visited the US last year!"
Then later he says "Statistics supplied to The Irish Times, there were almost as many non-immigrant visitors from Ireland in 2004 as from the entire African continent. The total number of African visitors was 432,314 compared to 429,940 from Ireland."
But if you look at the actual statistics from the US, only 345,119 visited in 2004. (http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/f-2004-203-001/index.html)

Unlike OW22, I don't think you can use these statistics to say the only country that can be called third world is the UK mate!. They just mean the Irish like to travel to the US, which is hardly surprising as it's a great place to go on holiday. One could argue that people who go to america do so because it's cheap and they are too impoverished to holiday in expensive Europe. Statistics can prove anything.

So it's great to see the Irish travelling, but OW22 still hasn't answered my point that why do US immigration feel it neccessary to clear everybody at Dublin airport? They don't have US immigration officers checking you are allowed onto the plane at Heathrow. Perhaps it's something to do with the fact that far too many of the Irish visitors to the US don't go back?

slim_slag
8th Feb 2006, 12:23
You are simply imagining this 'anti Irish' feeling, time to get rid of that chip.

Lastly, US Immigration were asked to come to Ireland and set up here as a perk for Irish travelers going to the US so they wouldn't have to queue up on arrival in the US. Nonsense. Ireland didn't satisfy the Visa Waiver requirements as the overstay figure was too high. This was highly embarrasing to the Irish government so they persuaded the US to accept a compromise which mean't the US weakened the overstay requirement in exchange for having US immigration clear people in Dublin. So all those kids who didn't want to come back were turned away in Dublin instead of Boston.

And thanks to the Irish connection in Washington, green cards are much easier to get here anyway... That would be the lottery? Yep, Irish connections (actually in New York) made that happen. There were so many illegal Irish in NY/Boston that it was getting embarrasing, and the local politicians wanted to legalise them as they would be future voters. How to do this? Make up some green card lottery only eligible for Irish. Unfortunately that didn't pass non-discrimination muster and they had to include other countries too. But it was mainly to allow legalisation of tens of thousands of Irish.

Now I don't have an axe to grind, just pointing out some facts to counter your stuff.

As for international travel, Ireland certainly has come a long way recently. It wasn't long ago that Irish citizens were banned by the State from travelling to the UK to have medical procedures performed which were illegal in Ireland. Not so today, but the Irish turnaround is very recent and as others have said could easily come tumbling down when interest rates are decided for the benefit of France or Germany.

Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there myself, but that isn't anti Irish, I simply prefer it elsewhere, as it my want.

Maple 01
8th Feb 2006, 12:26
As my dear wife says it's the massive inferiority complex the Irish Americans have that mean they're still fighting wars from 80 years ago. Real Irish people couldn't give a **** how many fellow countrymen take their hols in the US, much less crow about it on a forum. I would suggest they are secure in their nationhood by now to be able to take the pi** out of the old place much like most other nationals do about their homelands (excludes US of course - generally speaking) OW22 gets very upset at anyone who dosen't see his adopted homeland through his green-tinted glasses

Still, she also says the blow-ins become more Irish than the Irish themselves

OneWorld22
8th Feb 2006, 12:34
Erm, where exaclty is the crowing Maple?

It was a very interesting story that wa on the front page of The Irish Times not some Irish-American local paper in Boston!! So it was of immense Interest to the Irish people and the Govt here.

plus you must have missed the many posts where I stated time and agan I am not an Irish-American! No irish ancestry here I'm afraid just Scottish and I think Swedish.....

So please get your facts right before getting your sly little digs in?

Maple 01
8th Feb 2006, 12:39
Even worse then mate, no excuse for your chip!

OneWorld22
8th Feb 2006, 12:44
No chip, sorry to dissapoint you......

Just stating some points from an objective pint of view. I've lived here through the bad ol' days of 18% unemployment, stagnation and mass emigration and have seen the turnaround in front of me.

There are problems here, prices are very high, especially property which is a big headache for young first time buyers....And the health service is poor by Euro standards.

But things are a lot better here ten they were and it's great to see.

strafer
8th Feb 2006, 12:45
Why go all the way to New York for shopping? Look at some of the quality Irish shops available...

http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/8a/59/54_2.JPG

BRL
8th Feb 2006, 12:53
I would just like to make an apology.

I apologise to anyone who reads this thread who may have been offended by my comments that I found it suprising that Ireland was a 'Third-World' Country.

My source of this information was the (Irish) landlord of a pub in Miltown Malbay, out on the west coast in County Clare over a few beers one afternoon when it somehow came up in conversation.

Just in case someone feels like I am against Ireland, well, being a regular visitor over there, like, every couple of weeks, you would be very wrong. A good lottery win would see me moving and living over on a permanent basis. :)

eastern wiseguy
8th Feb 2006, 13:31
Roll on retirement...best view of this septic isle is in the rear view mirror...:yuk:

ronnie3585
8th Feb 2006, 14:23
1) Filthy,overcrowded hospitals
2) Gridlock on our roads(Most people are spending between one third and one half of their working lives again....just commuting)
3) Overcrowded classrooms and run down schools
4) Rip Off prices on all essentials.
5) Sinn Fein/IRA to hold the balance of power after the next election?....at worst the one after ...
6) One in five our our people still live below the poverty line(ESRI figures for 2000)
7) The chronic lack of political leadership.......
8) Mediocrity is endemic.
Still.....everyone has pots of money so thats O.K. then.

Houston, we have an Evening Herald reader:}

your_not_serious
8th Feb 2006, 15:10
Roll on retirement...best view of this septic isle is in the rear view mirror

Mrs YNS and I are off in October.......for good:ok:

slatsandflaps
8th Feb 2006, 15:21
hahahah BRL miltown is a place all to its self, it wasnt "Clancy's" now was it cause that would explain it .. that place has not seen a lick of paint since the 50's as it is : )
s&F

chuks
8th Feb 2006, 15:27
Personally, I find Ireland a real nice place to visit. I got out there, waaay out there in furthest Donegal, just me, the motorcycle, the road and the rain, always the rain... oh, and a few sheep and a few tour buses and the odd encounter with a brand of religion I had thought long-vanished, almost forgotten from my childhood. It was good fun, all in all. Now that I know where to find Joey's Bar, in Ballymena and not Ballymoney, I shall be sure to return. Not to start any conversations with how well Bobby Sands played for Manchester United - that tip alone was worth a year of being Jet Blasted.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to see it overtaken by progress. Treat it like a nature reserve, why don't we? Visit and then come away, leaving it untouched and unchanged. All of this building of high-tech chip factories and such is bound to end in tears once the happy natives' rates of pay rise above Third World levels. If it's progress you want, score a Green Card and head for New York.

Too, if someone were to take these opening vapourings at face value and pitch up in New York expected to be treated with any respect, well, that could get a bit brutal. 'Darby O'Gill and the Little People' would be about as far as it goes with our appreciation of today's Emerald Isle. Sorry about that, but that's how it is in the Big Apple. Go, spend your spondulicks and get a crick in your neck gawking at the big buildings but please don't think you're coming from an outpost of progress!

Airbus Jockey
8th Feb 2006, 15:36
I presume the above poster is on a massive wind-up?? I mean anyone who thinks Booby Sands played for Man U......

His painting of the intelligence of Americans is way off, they ain't that Stoopid!

They would know a lot more about Ireland then "The Quiet Man" I should think...Especially in Noo Yawk with it's Wall St analysts and the like watching US corporates investing in the place.

bear11
8th Feb 2006, 15:41
Ladies and gentlefreaks,

you'll have to excuse us for our lack of humour - we're getting over the having the hand out and being third world model, to being the economic model for Europe and the rest of the world (allegedly) in a very short period of time, which is bound to cause confusion. The change from long dole queues to having 154,000 "non-nationals" here to do the jobs we couldn't be arsed doing any more in 15 years or so would be traumatic for any country lucky enough to encounter it.

The truth lies somewhere in between the extremes, as usual, but what you're seeing in US figures is not immigration as of old (given many have come home in the last 10 years). It's the results of a campaign by our banks to stuff tons of money that we don't own down our throats (at the usual interest rates) so we all feel rich enough to go for a weekend's shopping in Noo Yawk. And in a very typical Irish contradictory way, a lot of our tourists are in a complete snot with the feckers in customs who have the brass neck to try and tell them what they could bring home duty-free from their visit to the cousins.

chuks
9th Feb 2006, 07:59
Drat! There is always some fellow with a sense of humour to spoil my little game. Of course I know who Bobby Sands was! He was famous for all of fifteen minutes, there.

I had a couple of local heroes blathering in the bar one night about rampant ignorance in the local pilot community. First I invoked the 'No Hangar Flying!' rule. When that didn't work I pretended not to know the rule of thumb for doing a Rate One turn. I had those two turkeys going for fifteen minutes trying to explain it to me. I insisted that one simply flew at 25 degrees of bank using a flight director, that I had read that in a book once and that was how it was done. Just good fun, eh?

The image of a crowd of bog-trotters swarming into Manhattan, larging it up in the Big Apple... well, there is just something comical in that, to me at least.

Seriously, the parts I liked the best about Ireland might get submerged in a wave of EU funding, tax-incentive-driven development and bubble prosperity. Even when the people were being a bit daft (leaving the sign up for a closed B&B three miles instead of one up a goat track, say) they were almost always kind and welcoming. What, they should learn the earnest pursuit of the almighty dollar? Well, euro. 'Time is money,' and all that? In that case I will go someplace else for my fun, because one sure doesn't visit Ireland for its climate!

On the other hand, just a quick look at Knock and its white elephant of an airport... what in the name of all that is rational is THAT about! It sure looked to me like a project driven by one very determined cleric; in the States he would have been sent on a retreat to someplace quiet to tell his beads rather than being indulged with massive public funding.

Too, I think it's perfectly fair to think that quite a bit of that EU funding must have missed its intended goal, landing in the pockets of various wide boys. Tell me I am wrong in this, please.

I assume that various very clever folks are just taking advantage, perhaps selling the most down the river. How about that deal to make 'Waterford Crystal' in Bohemia? Check that out for an example of just taking advantage, by the same guy who came up with 'Kerrygold.'

Then there was this George Sands. Are they related, George and Bobby? I am sure someone will rush to correct my ignorance.

OneWorld22
9th Feb 2006, 08:14
My dear Chuks....

You're not reading what I'm saying man! I'm not Irish! or even Irish American, so I've no "crowing" to do and attempts at reeling me in with your little fishies are wasted! If you're going to partake in trolling at least get a good target!

I notice other Irish PPRuNers have also failed to be taken in.....

Interesting thing about Knock, didn't you think it very strange that an airport with a HUGE runway, surrounded by fuel depot's was just plonked in the middle of nowhere?? :confused:

Maple 01
9th Feb 2006, 08:56
Jaysus
That just clinched the title honorary Orish-American for One World! And remember, many Bostonian Irish-Americans have as little biological claim on the Emerald isle as yourself! - let's hear no defence of post-modern irony please!

I notice other Irish PPRuNers have also failed to be taken in.....

Other? you're at best Orish-American, don't get ideas above your station;)

Bobby Sands? Wasn't he Ireland's 'Slimmer of the year' a while back? (Guess the nationality of the chap that told me that one before anyone writes in)

Future 737NG pic(?)
9th Feb 2006, 14:27
Ah sure wasn't the reason 100,000 Irish people went to N.Y. over Xmas was because buying presents from Dunnes costs more than the airfare across the pond & shopping on 5th Ave. put together?

Well that's what Eddie Hobbs would have you believe...


As a Brit living in Dublin, I agree with parts of the points of view forwarded. From my limited personal experience bear11 seems to have hit the nail on the head with the way things are here. Some objectivity like his wouldn't go amiss considering some of the posts so far.

F737NG

strafer
9th Feb 2006, 14:40
Look it wasn't 1/6th of the Irish population who went, it was 0.5 million out of all Irish passport holders (ie, about 1%).

The fact that I know about 60 people in Ireland and last year 10 of them went shopping in New York is entirely irrelevant.

BRL
9th Feb 2006, 23:39
hahahah BRL miltown is a place all to its self, it wasnt "Clancy's" now was it cause that would explain it .. that place has not seen a lick of paint since the 50's as it is : )
s&F
You would not believe it but that is the very place!!!! Smal-lish, narrow bar, with a small back room(with big tv that takes up most of the space) leading to the toilets where everyone goes for a quick ciggi!!! Small world eh!

slatsandflaps
10th Feb 2006, 10:26
it sure is ,
ah clancys that would explaine the 3rd world feel to the place .. a legend of a bar if a bit rough and ready ..
Get yourself there for the willie clancy festival .. a week of pints and Trad music ( oh and the crustys of course )..
S&F

BRL
10th Feb 2006, 11:25
Willie Clancy!!!! He is the bloke who does the horse riding thing and sorts out the dating festival, complete headcase, a real character. Met him at his stables when riding there one day a few summers ago. What a loon!!!