A4 UK Map: Breaking the law?

[EESDL]

Looking to produce an A4-size print of the UK (to keep pax info'd along the way)
Have spent hours searching the net and fiddling with zooms/overlays but, as yet, cannot find anything suitable.
Terrain
Major Towns/Roads etc
Just enough info to stop the pax asking me "Where's that?" whilst atc trying give me a clearance!!
Does anyone have any ideas/links?
Thanks in advance

[Head Turner]

You will need to get permission/authority from Ordnance Survey to reproduce their maps. It's a copyright issue.

[DeepC]

You will need to get permission/authority from Ordnance Survey to reproduce their maps. It's a copyright issue.

Not strictly true. I can lend him a Theodolite and a couple of ranging poles and starting from 30 miles West of Lands End he can make his own.

DeepC

[PANews]

I cannot recall seeing anything on the web that will meet your exacting requirements but a cheap idea might be to buy an atlas from a remainder shop and butcher the fly leaf that often offers you an A4 sized over-view....

For shorter sectors you could turn the atlas into a loose leaf and hand them a sheet with the local area in.

Project for a winter evening....

The cost £1.99 or less, a pair of scissors and a laminator - and no copyright issues.

[headsethair]

Try Stanfords in Covent Garden (and online). They are OS agents and can reproduce any map in any size - I would think you'd need to use 2 x A4 to get UK detail that's readable.

Or (watch the copyright rules) get a mate in graphic design or printing with a full size scanner to scan your half-mill to a file - and print your own in A4 size. If it's for private use and not for resale, you should be fine. After all, you're just doing what we all do freely with multimap.

[EESDL]

Thanks folks.
Been digging out old road maps - which seem to fix the bill. Will get 'blunties' in the office to laminate it - they'll like that!

[cl12pv2s]

Hmmm..
If it's for private use and not for resale, you should be fine.

Just because something is being copied for private use, or is not going to be resold, it doesn't mean that it isn't protected by copyright law.
In fact, you must start by thinking that any copying is restricted (Section 16-1(a) of the act), unless the law explicitly says it's not. One such example is that of Fair Dealing.

Often the Fair Dealing concept is misinterpreted (see quote above). Fair Dealing in the UK is defned as "private study and criticism and review and news reporting" according to s. 29, 30 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

However, it would be difficult to apply 'Fair Dealing' to the use described in this thread.

The OS take copyright very seriously. Quoting OS,"While we actively encourage the licensed use of our material, we will vigorously protect it against unlicensed use. We will follow up any cases where people are using our material without a licence and will try to come to an amicable agreement. We will take legal action if necessary."

I believe the Ordinance Survey maps are protected by Crown Copyright law. In this case, the material becomes 'out-of-copyright' after 50 years. i.e. It becomes public domain. So maybe you could use an old map. Until 50 years elapses though, you need a licence for most uses of their material.

The intended use of the copied map and the medium of the original map would determine how this law is applied and what licence would be necessary.
If in any doubt (which there obviously is), I would contact OS to check. Or you could simply do what most other people seem in this world do, and that's simply make your copies and hope no one finds out, without a care for the Intellectual Rights of the owner! You just have to hope that you don't ever fly a member of the OS or CLA!!

Your best bet is to use an original map or a map which is older than 50 years.

Or you could try this OS service, which allows you to get 10 maps free!
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/


cl12pv2s

After all, you're just doing what we all do freely with multimap.
P.S. Here's a direct link to the 'Multimap - Legal and Copyright webpage'. Note paragraph 1 and 3 particularly! Multimap.com - Terms and Conditions of Use of map images and data (http://www.multimap.com/static/condit_new.htm)
I leave you to make your own minds up!!!

[md 600 driver]

http://www.memory-map.com/

i use memory map software you can print out a4 caa maps or a4 o/s maps if you want to see it before you buy call round i will show you
steve

[SASless]

So...I copy an OS map...make a half dozen copies...put them in my helicopter for my passengers casual use during a flight. One of them dimes me out to the OS...who then sends an investigator to my door. He seizes the things...throws me into manacles...drags me off to Nick and remands me to court for violation of the Copyright laws.

Is that what you are saying?

Bless my trousers...I have heard of Jobsworths before but this one takes the cake.

Copy the damn things...laminate them...use them...if the whistle gets blown and Jobs shows up swinging the manacles...Mutter OH Sorryo...and give them to him swearing you shall never do such a thing again until next time.

You guys got bigger worries than thinking the OS folks give a hoot.

[Heliport]

Blimey! :eek:

Someone wants to make an A4-size print of the UK to keep pax informed/reduce the inevitable (and entirely understandable) "Where's that?" questions and he's inundated with warnings and advice about possible copyright implications.

Even if he does breach copyright -
What are the chances of anyone finding out?
If they do, of anyone doing anything about it?Not that I'm encouraging anyone to do anything as heinous as breach copyright, of course.


Is it a peculiarly British thing, or are other nationalities as obsessed with rules and laws?

[SASless]

Heliport Dear Man....that is the topic for a cracker thread.

I by golly DARE you to start it....go ahead...I double DARE you!

The one requirement for a post to the thread must be a verifiable event to qualify....or any written document with a CAA letterhead.

[Heliport]

I hadn't seen your post when I posted.

You make much the same point in your own inimitable style.

[EESDL]

It's too late, I've slashed my wrists....................

.......and to those readers that have already slashed their wrists - I'm terribly sorry for reminding you of such a traumatic experience. If you do feel traumatised by such a recollection, then I probably have have insurance that will provide for therapy for yourself.
Not forgetting of course, those 'victims' who have yet to slash their wrists but now think that it's quite a good idea because they heard it here, or saw it happen on TV, or received subliminal messages on the flipside of some 'Smiths' single.........then again, I'm starting to feel quite 'woozy' with the thought of all this blood sloshing about, and what if it splashes on to my new shoes?
Off to get 'de-traumatised'......................

[Heliport]

EESDL
I was making a general point.
If you were caught and prosecuted, some people might have a wry smile after reading your comments on this thread: Link (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209495)

[cl12pv2s]

All,

Sassless / Heliport...in answer to your question...yes, even for simple pax in the back, reproducing OS maps 'could' be considered a breach of copyright. (I must state here, that I don't know exactly how the law would be applied here or exactly what rights OS have reserved...you'd have to ask OS)

Is it for private use? - yes, is it for non-profitable purposes? - yes. Does it have a commercial impact to OS? - Yes, in so far as you aren't buying more maps from them. Is it against the law? - Yes, (Section 16-1(a))

However, we can rest assured that the OS legel guys have more important and commercially damaging cases on to deal with, rather than chasing up our friend EESDL and his small chopper (or big one!).

But does that make it right...well again, it's a personal thing. I have copied stuff (for private non-profitable use) before. Did I feel bad, or that I was now a fugitive...no, of course not!

But by the same token, I have in the past had my own 'intellectual property' ripped off too...

As for an obsession with the law...Just look at the states. They love their laws. The difference is, that Joe Public in the states tend to know their laws better than those in good old Blighty.

Personally, I am not obsessed with laws, but I do make a point of knowing when they're being broken. That way, I can follow up loudly, or keep quiet, depending on what would be most profitable to me!!!!

cl12pv2s

[SASless]

WearBVDS2,

Once upon a time, in another life long ago, I was tasked to chase down the maker of three telephone calls. The calls were made from Guam on a US Government telephone by some unknown culprit who had the temerity to cost the US Taxpayer the grand sum of One Dollar and Seventy Eight Cents in US Currency. It was plain the caller did not reach the party intended due to the extremely short duration of the calls. I drove my US Government police issue sedan from southern Georgia all the way into Western North Carolina, spent all day driving up there. Had two meals on the government tab that day. I spent the night in a motel at government expense and conducted my inquiry in about seven minutes flat. I then drove all day back to Southern Georgia and consumed three meals that day on the government tab.

I spent half the next day completing the trip report, expense account, servicing the automobile, entering the evidence into the vault, and writing the report.

I took the liberty....on my own time....to send a memo to the boss suggesting a way for the US government to save a lot of money. My suggestion was in the future, I would gladly take two days off with pay and cough up the $1.78 (One Pound Sterling) and the government would not only get their money back but would not have the expense of my journey and the wear and tear on the automobile.

He like you probably, felt I had a bad attitude and did not see the need for prosecuting those that violate the law. I remember that trip well....at lunch the second day I watched on television as the shuttle crashed on takeoff.

[i4iq]

Why not scan the map at reasonably good resolution and use a vector based image editing program to trace over the features you want and type in the names of the towns etc? You could blow up and reduce as much as you want, add detail as and when necessary and I believe avoid copyright issues as you are using it as a reference, rather than a straight copy.

[cl12pv2s]

Why not scan the map
Nope, sorry! The law does not allow transfer of a paper-based source into a machine readable form. This includes scanning or digitisation.
Almost every UK university will have a policy on this (go ahead and do a google search), and I bet almost every one of them will state that their licence does not cover digitising maps.

avoid copyright issues as you are using it as a reference
The 1988 Act does not include the word 'reference' anywhere! So often with copyright issues, people try to apply laws that simply don't exist.

Accept the fact that copying without permission (unless for private study and criticism and review and news reporting) is generally prohibited

OK, here is another link. Open this up and read the beige print regarding copyright.

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business/copyright/docs/D01308.pdf

cl12pv2s

[i4iq]

cl12pv2s

Yes, you're right - it looks particularly tight when you read the 2nd bullet point!




referring to an Ordnance Survey map in order to create your own;
But O/S are not the only maps out there. Royalty free maps do exist as does information on towns, roads etc.

[EESDL]

Sorry Heliport - it was a sarcastic comment because I cannot believe that anyone who is intelligent enough to abide by the ANO - does not know about copyright!!!!!!!

Although I do think, as a MOD, that you may have overstepped the mark with your insinuation..................

I'm a salaried pilot operating a G-plate company helicopter.
Aircraft is maintained and operated under an AOC........

But back to the issue -
Thank you folks for your information - I will endeavour not to break any laws whilst I go about my business........
and instead of using a hand-drawn, crayoned sketch will leave a copy of a purchased road map in the seat pocket, just incase I have to land-on and hire a car.

[headsethair]

Always good to see lucid, logical exchanges here!

If reprinting Multimap content is illegal, why does their browser have a PRINT button ?

You see - that's the world I operate in. The real one as opposed to the one buried under centuries of gobbledy-gook.

I love this expression "Crown Copyright". Who owns the Crown anyway ? Which taxpayers funded the set-up of Ordnance Survey ? Don't we therefore all own a little bit of the rights ?

[Thomas coupling]

Why go to the bother? Seriously - if they are in your helo to get from A to B for business purposes, do they care where they are?
If they are sightseeing - you'll be giving a commentary anyway - right?

What is the point?

Do you have a coffee machine in the back too (like the RAF:D ).

Look at all the dross you've dug up now - you should be ashamed of yourself:E

[Whirlygig]

Why not give your passengers an out-of-date chart, appropriately folded, to look at? They might find it more interesting than a road map!

Cheers

Whirls

[SASless]

Ah...the keep the passengers informed thing and all the perils it presents. My Chief Pilot called me one day and suggested I needed to modify my description of things and places just a wee bit. When I asked what he was on about....he said he had overheard one of my regular passengers correcting another on his morning flight done in my normal route to one of our business locations.

His account went along the line of...Oregon pax asks another Oregon pax what river was below the aircraft...to be told..."Ah....that is the Green River"....at which time my number one passenger (and dear friend till today) swiveled around and smilingly said...."Oh no...that is the GREEN FECKING RIVER!" Chiefy went on private on the intercom and asked of the guy...."What?" Mike answered...."Well that is what Sasless calls it whenever someone asks him."

[headsethair]

Here's a waste of time.

You're flying along and your pax is staring at the GPS. Loves the detail on the moving map. Whips out phone camera and commits a copyright crime.

Then emails the close-up of the moving map to mates.

Gets home, does his blog for the day and includes the picture. Now it's on the WWW.

Lazy journo needs close-up pic of a moving map - now it's in a magazine.

Copyright law may not survive the century.