Stupid Question, However......

[Prat At The Back]

This really is a stupid question but here we go....

Stn Cdr , ( at a small unit so lets say a Wingco) walks down the road to work and is confronted by 3 airmen, a Flt Lt pilot and the SMO, a Wg Cdr; Who salutes who?

[mbga9pgf]

3 airmen and Flt lt Pilot salute, Wg Cdr returns I expect. if it was vis a vis, then the most senior officer present salutes the junior after he has saluted the collective of officers. OR whoever is closest, generally works in my book!

Why, did you get a Bolloxking?

[Onan the Clumsy]

Were the 3 airmen English, Irish and Scottish by any chance?

[Jobza Guddun]

Well for a start, the three airmen would spread themselves neatly at 10 pace intervals to make sure that at least ONE of the officers had to keep saluting for a good distance......being a good uniformed civvy, the SMO would probably wonder what all the arm-waving was about......the pilot wouldn't really give a toss, being late for a briefing, and would wave in someones general direction. CO would then no doubt stomp off to write Order No 1 of the next SRO's.....

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Do people still salute? Havn't seen one for ages.

[The Rocket]

:ok:

As close as I could get fella

[Samuel]

The Staish is a CO, so everyone of the five people approaching him [ three airmen, a Flt Lt, and a SMO] will salute. The three airmen would do it smartly and instinctively give each other room; the Flt Lt, being a pilot and on the ground, would salute somewhat vaguely in the manner of one who doesn't do such things very often, and the MO will wave because he's a Wg Cdr for pay purposes and hasn't a clue about anything else in the air force.!:D

[dallas]

If people are saluting the Queen's commission, not the individual, surely two flt lts should salute each other's passing commission - their ranks being irrelevent?

[Climebear]

Prat At The Back

Who salutes who?

Shouldn't that be 'Who salutes whom?'

[Onan the Clumsy]

Only if you're an hofficer

[Pontius Navigator]

You presume the pilot has a hat.

In ASI the order was that out doors - head dress etc and stable belts.

The staish and the 3 sqn ldrs, plus the RN and Army wore hats. No one else did.

[BEagle]

The airmen, pilot and quack all exhibit signs of shock at the sight of the Stn Cdr walking...

The airmen are reprimanded by the pilot, who advises them to salute every officer whether or not said officer is wearing head dress, or is drunk or sober. He then kicks them up the ar$e (as is every officer's inalienable right) and tells them to double off to their place of work sharpish...or else!

The pilot salutes the SMO - and when the SMO recovers from the shock, asks him/her how much a JAA Class 1 medical certificate will cost...

Wherupon the Stn Cdr (if aircrew) starts showing signs of interest.

The deal is struck.

Pilot and Stn Cdr turn up at the the Med Centre. A bit of form-filling, bollock-fondling (by the SMO) later and that's stage 1 of the ATPL process completed. All 3 repair to the mess for a couple of sherbets at Happy Hour.

Which are served by the airmen in question......


And the 'Happy Hour' chips are duly served to them complete with 'special sauce'..........

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, wrong on one count then. Said airmen, being mess stewards, are rpobably ambling along in whites so they don't look like airmen at all and miscellaneous anoraks.

What no doubt gives them away is the RAF issue rucksack with the out of date eagle and crown logo.

Next week they should be able to draw the updated patch of roundel and forward looking, excited royal air force corporate image logo.

[Samuel]

The airmen can't be Mess Stewards, 'cos there aren't any! More likely they would be 'Rocks' because they know how to salute but not, necessarily, who; and their response in this case would have been more of the 'it's moving salute it' rather than from being kicked up the arse by said pilot who, it must be remembered , is himself saluting, so cannot possibly have the two hands free that he would normally require to find his own arse let alone anyone else's.

The MO couldn't possibly arrange a meeting as quickly, because they don't make house calls, and in any event would have to consult with his own staff of NCOs as it is a well-known fact that, apart from not being able to salute, MOs don't really know much about anything and are perpetually confused.

The CO ,incidentally, was walking because his office was full of consultants telling him they are there to solve problems he didn't know he had and in a manner of speaking he doesn't understand.

[FJJP]

The three airmen are the sole remaining 'other ranks' in the Service and as such are aware that they can do what they like - the RAF cannot afford to lose them. So they ignore the whole thing, berets in epaulettes, hands in pockets and disappear laughing.

The pilot is so spaced out with fatigue that he doesn't see whats happening and [minus hat] shuffles away to find aircraft, self authorise and fly mission which he hasn't briefed for and doesn't know what he's doing it for.

The SMO is struggling to find a cure for Asian bird flu, has just completed 500 flu jabs, is due to finish yet another batch of meaningless statistics and is thus spaced out. He is not aware of what's happening around him, doesn't know what a salute is anyway, and shuffles off to the RMC to look through the next batch of meaningless e-mails from the Department of Health.

The Staish is an Admin Wg Cdr, who is busy composing the latest PC management-speak diatribe to send round to all sections as a result of the latest HQSTC initiative in management strategy. He is so spaced out because he has achieved Wg Cdr rank, complete with OBE and MBE after only 7 years service and has difficulty coping. He is unaware of what's happening around him, doesn't notice anybody and shuffles off to the office to receive yet another briefing on the forthcoming fireman's strike which will drain his station of 75% of his manpower, thus denying the Station the ability to carry out its primary task of supporting operations at the behest of President Bliar...

Not an unusual day then...

[Climebear]

FJJP

The Staish is an Admin Wg Cdr

Are there such people anymore? I though that in this brave new world, post Rocky Goodall, all wg cdrs and above (excluding the specialist Medic, Dentist, Padre, Directors of Music) are all GD. Admittedly though, some are more GD than others.

[STANDTO]

"The Staish is an Admin Wg Cdr"

Which reminds me; I see Ross Paterson is now an Air Commodore. (Telegraph. Service postings-Recently) He was my flight commander at Sleaford Tech in 87, and always impressed on us:

"I'm an EDUCATOR, not a scribbly"

We never really saw eye to eye, but he was (is) an immensely capable bloke and will probably end up commanding GWIII whenever that is.

If you do subscribe to such infantile threads as these Ross, PM me and I'll reveal my secret identity:ok:

presuming of course, you give a sh*t

[FCWhippingBoy]

I would have thought said airmen, having more sense, would make themselves look busy in a nearby doorway until said officers had passed, thus alleviating said need to salute! :}

[The Helpful Stacker]

Whats this about all the airmen saluting at once?

In the Army if a group of OR's was bimbling around (not a very common occurrence in the Army what what) then the closest OR's to the said commission holder would give the salute, with the rest 'bracing-up' (or putting their arms smartly by their sides for those less drill orientated).

I always thought this was the procedure in the RAF too, but have seen all manner of displays, from the one I mention above to the 'Mexican Wave' effect by larger groups of airmen.

Does anyone know the official party line on bimbling groups and salutes?

[FCWhippingBoy]

Errrrm not the official party line, no, but I find that if everyone salutes, nobody gets upset and throws teddy out of the cot for not getting waved at. Better safe than sorry!

[Samuel]

"closet OR's ". I thought it was compulsory to be "out" these days.:confused:

[southside]

Simple....If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move...paint it !

[Climebear]

21 hours 40 minutes

[FCWhippingBoy]

21 hours 40 minutes
eh?! I'm lost now :uhoh:

[Samuel]

I would hazard a guess and suggest that is the amount of time left before saluting becomes a thing of the past?

Infantile? I would have thought such imagination as displayed to what is , admittedly, an uninformed question, should progress us all to our aim of at least making half-wit?

[charliegolf]

The answer would be in AP wxyz 'Drill and Ceremonial'. Big book, not unlike QRs, I seem to recall. I think.

CG

[Phil_McCrevis]

It's easy, they all salute the pilot he's aircrew!

[FCWhippingBoy]

It's easy, they all salute the pilot he's aircrew!
<Widens the doorway for our flyboy brethren> :}

[mbga9pgf]

Make Space, Pilot coming through!

followed by
:ouch:

[Climebear]

21h40m = time taken from start of post to the expected inane post by Southside

[Pontius Navigator]

Cause the other half is 3 officers bimbling along, chatting of course, who returns a salute?

All the same rank it is the . ..

One senior to the other two so . . .

It is always good for a laugh.

[Climebear]

Pontius Navigator

Sadly if they are all the same rank it is the officer nearest to the salutee (I think that I have just made this word up) that returns the salute.

Unfortunatly there is no requirement for the 3 officers to enter into a debate on their relevant dates of seniority and then, if they have the same date of seniority, then their order in the Air Force List.

[Radar Riser]

Surely the Flt Lt, being a junior rank, should salute the Staish. What difference does it make if he's a pilot?

[Pontius Navigator]

Its like shooting fish in a barrel, just sling in a hook and pull.

Do we really think the question was serious?

[Radar Riser]

It's been a long weekend. I'll get me coat!:*

[Samuel]

I've come to the conclusion that you're all smarter than Stephen Hawking because only a dozen people or so understand Hawking, and no one can follow you lot!

[endplay]

We all know it's a game but if you don't think it's serious try walking the ground at a big HQ and see the knots people get into trying to judge the etiquette. The extremes of direct confrontation or huge separation are easy but the grey area in between could provide an anthropologist with enough material for a major thesis. Avoidance seems to be the mutually desired outcome but only if there's no loss of face involved for the senior party. Add to the mix foreign military and even other brit forces (can you spot an Army officer in combats?) and it gets even better. Still, if my failing eyesight holds out till endex I'll keep playing.

[The Helpful Stacker]

....(can you spot an Army officer in combats?).....

A problem I am personally aware of after being bawled at by one of Sandhursts finest many years ago at DJ barracks.

Him (after storming across the gravel car park by the EFI) - "Why didn't you salute me?

Me (dropping my arm from the salute I was just giving him)- "Because I didn't know you were an officer until you drew closer Sir."

Him - "Why not?"

Me - "Well you have chosen to wear subdued rank and were approximately 50 meters away, thus proving the purpose of subdued rank"

I was later called into work by the boss and asked not to point out the obvious to Army officers in the future as it upsets them somewhat.

:rolleyes:

[maxburner]

Picture this: I was walking through one of the Death Star corridors (Mount Pleasant for those who have managed to avoid the place) with a Flt Lt air traffic controller, a female. The army, for reasons best known to them, regard the corridors as out of doors, therefore saluting is in order. We passed a major - regiment unknown. As a Sqn Ldr I did not salute, but neither did my companion. The army chap, obviously a bit miffed, muttered ''don't you people pay compliments any more?'' Quick as a flash my colleague turned and said ''Nice Boots!''

He turned red and I had a fit of the giggles.

[Samuel]

I like it!

I used to think this story was apocryphal but there are many references as to its veracity, including the official history.

Major General Bernard Freyberg VC, OC the NZ Division in Egypt prior to El Alamein, was inspecting some of the Kiwi troops with Montgomery in a vehicle when the latter commented: "Not many of your troops seem to salute Freyberg", to which Freyberg replied; "No, but if you wave at them they'll wave back".

[Pontius Navigator]

I was at the northen home of the RAF Regiment when one day I was aware of a movement in my peripheral vision in the middle distance. Keeping my head firmly fixed in the 12 o'clock I swivelled the eye balls. Only to hear:

"Yes SIR!, YOU SIR. I'm saluting YOU SIR."

There was this Regt WO in severe danger of walking (sorry I meant marching) into a brick wall while holding this immaculate salute for about 30 paces. I tossed him one of the aircrew finest and nipped round th enext quarter PDQ.

I also remember at Topcliffe the airmen used to space out and force the APOs to salute every one of them. Not only that but they always moved to the left and banged elbow to elbow.

As we were wanabee navs and not AEOs we soon put them right - still had to do lots of saluting.

[Samuel]

Pontius, I recall my very first salute, [although I suppose we all do, perhaps not].

I was nine years an airman, in two Royal Air Forces, but in the RNZAF I went from airman to P/O via the OCS, and the very morning I ceased to be an APO after a very brief ceremony and a change or rank, I was turned loose as a brand new Pilot Officer, walked out the door, to find my former Flt Sgt standing to attention and throwing a smart salute; "Good Morning SIR!"

I also recall my last, as a Sqn Ldr, but that's another tale!

[Pontius Navigator]

Samuel, quite right too. Mine was very similar. I had returned to ITS immediately before going to Nav School. As I was returning to the mess who should happen by but the school WO no less AND with a full flight of cadets. I got the full works including 30 eyes right :)

[Rigga]

3 Airmen would have turned 90 degrees and got out of an obviously confusing and bad situation.
Pilot would have saluted everyone. He was on the ground and he wouldnt know where he was.
SMO would not salute a young whipper-snapper - even if he was The Staish.
Staish would have said "Hello Doc" (or suchlike) and shook his hands.

Did I win?

[Widger]

First of all, nobody would have saluted because they would not have been able to work out if it was a Sqn Ldr or a Wg Cdr until well past and clear! GET SOME DECENT STRIPES THAT YOU CAN SEE BEYOND 5 PACES, especially after they have been in the wash 10 times!


Secondly, the Junior Officers should have been "fell in", marching smartly alongside the Senior Officer. They are then part of his Wing and follow the Senior Officer's movements. As both other Officer's were of the same rank...no salute. If the Other Officer was a Groupie, the the Wg Cdr would salute on behalf of his wing.

Clear now?

[FCWhippingBoy]

Does anyone know the official party line on bimbling groups and salutes?

Going back a page, someone asked the above question.

I collared an ex-Halton DI acquaintence of mine in smokers at work, and asked what the current policy was. After a thankfully brief lesson about marching squads, eyes-left, eyes-right etc etc, it would seem all the airmen in a "bimbling group" salute individually!

[Kitbag]

As would the unfortunate officer receiving respect on behalf of the Crown :ok: