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View Full Version : Do you drive a car? then watch this (short vid)


Ultralights
2nd Feb 2006, 22:31
being a bike rider, i habitually look twice,
sadly this add will never be seen in the US, there eyes are too sensitive to reality. would be perfect in a superbowl spot.
http://ruiner.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/howclose.mpg

Willows
3rd Feb 2006, 01:01
It is quite striking isn't it? (Forgive the pun) Especially worrying since I plan to get my motorcycle license within a few weeks. :uhoh:

This advert is shown in the UK but it does not have the initial crash shot.

Binoculars
3rd Feb 2006, 01:46
Jesus, it scared the crap out of me. Good to have our comfort zone invaded every now and then.

vapilot2004
3rd Feb 2006, 01:51
:eek: Made me duck :eek:

allan907
3rd Feb 2006, 02:00
Hit the pause button when the car driver is initially looking to his right - no bike - ANYWHERE!!!

message still applies tho

Ultralights
3rd Feb 2006, 02:24
if the driver is not looking for a bike, then he will not see one even if there is one there!! its possible that could be the point of not having the bike in the first shots as opposed to later when he IS looking for a bike (if its intentionally filmed that way)

sgsslok
3rd Feb 2006, 02:37
wow... i showed it to a friend of mine who wanna get a 1300 c.c. bike as his FIRST BIKE.....

enough said......


Lok

MungoP
3rd Feb 2006, 03:14
Happened to me some years back....the driver was waiting in line to turn right at a junction...the cars ahead of him could see me coming...pretty fast... he couldn't see me from behind and just turned across to jump the queue... I had maybe 1 to 2 seconds ... no way to even slow the bike so stood high on the pedals so to make sure that I'd go over the top...broken nose and a lot of bruising but not bad for a 60 mph flight ending face first on the Uxbridge Road.
Two friends had similar experiences...one dead other badly broken. As far as I'm concerned any driver pulling out into the path of another vehicle should automatically be considered at fault...rather like banging into the back of another vehicle...Doesn't matter what speed the oncoming vehicle is doing... if you can't judge speed then you shouldn't be driving anyway.

Onan the Clumsy
3rd Feb 2006, 04:08
This advert is shown in the UK but it does not have the initial crash shot.then it would contain a severely diluted message

I'd politely disagree with you though Mungo sometimes an accident is just that, sometimes the fault lies squarely with one party, sometimes it should be shared.

steinycans
3rd Feb 2006, 05:44
"if you can't judge speed then you shouldn't be driving anyway."

Sometimes its just too hard to judge other peoples speed, particularly when they are coming at you in a straight line and you are unfamiliar with the road or in conditions of poor visibility.

for example, if you are expecting cars to be coming along at the 50kph speed limit then some turkey comes screaming along at 90, you are likely to misjudge their speed (not to mention mindset of expecting people to be driving along at the speed limit)

also, if the car you are about to pull out in front of is just coming around a blind corner, quite often they put 'no right turn' restrictions when there isnt enough visibility to pull out safely. other places they dont because the traffic is supposed to be moving at the speed limit and should give the side-road traffic enough time to see.

In this case, if you are snotting along at 1.5 or 2x the speed limit and bang into someone pulling out of a side street, i think the blame should rest entirely on your shoulders.

Loose rivets
3rd Feb 2006, 05:47
Mmmm..........having posted about the time that a six year old caused me to loose a lot of skin, anyone remembering my jolly tale will realise that I know of what I speak. That teenage near-disaster was a wake up call that lasted me the rest of my life...well, till now anyway.

Bikers cannot expect to use their machines as simple means of transport. They require about the same concentration--all the time--as the last minutes of a flight...in crap weather. Give it anything less and you will live to regret it...or not.

Rolling at ten miles an hour over the limit into the situation shown, yes, the driver should be responsible for what is an everyday variation from the norm. Turn up at double the speed limit, and tough luck. A well defended driver will get off. The police will know from the marks and the dents.

Despite the brakes/tires on new super-bikes being out of this world compared to the old days, any rider that relies on brakes is living in fantasy land. When a bike is under hard braking, there is limited maneuvering potential for an ace rider. Absolutely F-all for a novice. The escape route has to be planned for every single scenario. The rider here should have been watching the cars wheels like a hawk, having taken into account the opposite traffic. If such traffic would have stopped him crossing the road, his brakes should have been on and hot. (Water / grease burnt off) The reaction time can now be around 1/4 of a second...1/2 at the most, to hard braking and the speed will be coming back to a realistic level as a by-product.

Anyone that thinks that this is totally over the top, will have a pal of mine agreeing with him/her. No, it's not either of the dead two, it is a very experienced police rider. He used to think I was on the brakes a little too often. But. His mental planning was right out of the normal range. Anyone that is at his level of riding sees more than most people. For us ordinary mortals, the hard slog of preparation for every situation is vital.

Riding a big bike is perhaps the single most exciting thing I have ever done, certainly the most demanding. When I was in my teens, I just did not have what it takes. Thank goodness I didn't have a bike then that would go to a hundred in under four seconds.

I would hate to think that bikes in the UK would be banned. There is something very special about riding round the English countryside, but any time that I was not really mentally sparking...letting my mind drift to other worries etc, I would just pootle home and put the thing away.

Unwell_Raptor
3rd Feb 2006, 07:09
I am seriously biased against motorcycles. My brother lost an arm on one at the age of 16, and a couple of years ago I watched a young man die on a grass verge, victim to a car whose driver just didn't see him. If you look at the huge disparity in death rates between bikes and cars, they just aren't worth it, IMHO.

Maxflyer
3rd Feb 2006, 07:51
This advert is shown in the UK but it does not have the initial crash shot.

I saw this on TV on Tuesday evening - with full on crash shot!

effortless
3rd Feb 2006, 08:05
I think that there is summat wrong with me. I saw the clip and thought "mmmm I wish I still had me bike." :uhoh:

chuckT
3rd Feb 2006, 08:21
Not much damage to the car ?? Compared to this.. :eek:

http://www.micom.net/oops/fast%20bike-slow%20car.jpg



link to pic fixed....

High Wing Drifter
3rd Feb 2006, 08:31
My first job when leaving school was as a motorcycle courier in London for two and a half years. An invincible teenager, doing 35,000 miles/year in London and I'm still alive although I had two very close shaves!

Anyway, the point is that couriers soon learn to read the road to such a degree that you soon start to spot parked cars wheels turning in lieu of pulling out, or that a driver isn't looking in their mirror or that telltale small weave that a car does just before it switches lanes without any other indication.

However I do have fond memories of going straight through a set of reds on the North Circular after realising I was on a diesel slick, getting my front tire wedged in a grove cut in the road where the roadworks sign boarding was pulled down in Sloane Sq and locking my front wheel on Shaftsbury Avenue.

I think it is fair to say that most bikers don't care for speed limits or queuing and so will eventually get caught out. Will the accident kill you, maim you, injure you or will you walk away. Depends on your speed, but generally pot luck, there is very little a biker can do to influence the outcome of an accident one it has started. I certainly know more dead or seriously injured bikers than than scratched GA pilots even though I probably know of more pilot.

All said and done, I've never enjoyed any job more.

patdavies
3rd Feb 2006, 08:54
Is it just me, but is the bike travelling far slower and toward the centre of the road in the final section where everything is done 'right'.

Parapunter
3rd Feb 2006, 09:37
Yep I think so, it's done up with video editing. However, that has happened to me - a few years back, I was driving along & a bike coming the other way was nudged by a car it was overtaking which had pulled out of it's lane without looking, the bike was pushed into my lane & I hit it fully head on - both vehicles doing about 25mph.

I had shock & whiplash & the guy on the bike almost died twice - the first time from choking on vomit in the immediate aftermath & then that night from internal bleeding. And it did happen that quickly.

Edited to say: I was in a big old lumpy Audi 80 - mobile tank really & ideal for head on crashes.

Go Smoke
3rd Feb 2006, 09:44
I grew up riding bikes and spent 19 years riding on the road. I sold my last bike (Fireblade) two years ago after a real frightener but am now considering buying another however, I have concerns.
I've lost a great many friends to bike accidents in those 19 years.
Whilst I was young I also had talent, great reactions and was supremely relaxed and comfortable in the saddle. I had the odd prang but was lucky to only come out of them with broken bones.
However, as I got older and more friends died my mortality came thudding home to me. I also found that my reaction times were starting to dergrade - just a fraction, but enough to make the close squeaks a little closer.
I wasn't riding everyday at this time and just used to haul the bike out on odd weekends - I believe currency is a big issue when it comes to riding bikes.
The accident that made me quit was on the large roundabout/junction Hyde Park Corner. I came round the bottom of Hyde Park Corner and hit a deisel spill. The bike and I parted company and I went skating through the moving traffic on my arse. How I didn't get hit by anything I don't know. The only reason I didn't go under the rear wheels of the moving coach full of tourists was because I had luckily spun round and was sliding feet first and managed to get my feet onto the side of the coach to stop myself. By this time I had slowed down enough for it to work and not knacker my legs too. A taxi collected my bike in its side.
I think conditions on the roads have worsened for bike riders in the last few years. Heavier traffic, more inconsiderate drivers who don't use their mirrors or look properly, people jumping the lights, just not looking effectively, changing lane without looking or signalling.
As an observer (and car driver), it just seems to me that good driving manners have dissapeared and that it's like a stock car race out there.

chuks
3rd Feb 2006, 11:44
It sure did seem that the bike was moving more slowly, with different positioning, in the non-accident shot, but there could be a message to bikers in that.

I'm not a born-again biker, more one who just never completely quit. But in that the question of currency definitely comes up, along with the inevitable slowing down of reflexes, loss of visual acuity and all the other depressing effects of ageing. (I was out one frosty night for a couple of hours when I then gave the front brake lever a big squeeze. My forearm hurt for the next week, thanks to straining those cold muscles. That never used to be a problem!)

In our village we had two born-again guys have big accidents. One was cleaned off his bike at an intersection by a woman who turned across his path. He came off worst, of course, surviving with a broken pelvis. The intersection is a bad one but perhaps he didn't take that fully into consideration.

The other guy went too close to the white lines in a curve and had to pull back in when a car was going to take his silly head off. Then he hit some ripples in the Tarmac and lost control. The bike ended up banana-shaped around a stout German oak tree and he was very lucky to get away with just scrapes and bruises. If he had hit the tree it would have been curtains. By the time he got out of the hospital the wife had sold off the remnants of the bike and declared his 'born-again' status null and void.

I go on these recurrent safety courses (which are often just a very good excuse to go hooning around the Nordschleife of the Nuerburgring but there you are ...), always wear full safety gear even if it's just a trip to get an ice cream, spend what it takes to keep the bike fettled with top-quality tires, and, and, and ... But there is that undeniable elevated level of risk; you collide with a car that weighs 1.5 tonnes - who comes off worse? Sort of a no-brainer, that one!

Here in London the weather is not good enough and I just don't have any free time right now, so that my bike is just gathering dust in the bike shed. But just the few miles I did coming down the road from Harwich provided some real eye-opening looks at the very different way people here in the UK ride. I would be sat there in a line of traffic just minding my own business, since I just don't know enough about filtering, and 'Whoom!' some dork of a courier would nearly run over my foot! Thanks a lot, buddy! They drive as if 'every man's hand shall be against you.' And then they bitch about lack of consideration from other road users? Hmmm.

Even as a motocyclist myself I have come too close to pulling out on some guy on a bike. Sometimes it's just as in the video; you look, nothing there, look the other way, start to pull out and, 'Where did HE come from!' A bike has materialised out of, seemingly, nowhere. Either I didn't spot him at first or else he's doing way over the limit but the result would have been the same; a trip to the garage for me and to the hospital for him.

On a lighter note, I had three teenage girls on scooters following me in traffic in town. Then one of them passed me, squeezing into my 'safety zone' much to the amusement of her comrades. So I pulled up alongside her, which caused her to give me a long look, just as the taxi we were both following hit its brakes. As I turned left (my real intention anyway) I heard a loud thump. It sounded like someone driving into a taxi with a scooter at a walking pace. What would that be, something they don't teach you in driving school?

MungoP
4th Feb 2006, 04:57
Just had a chance to review some of the responses since my last posting....pretty scary...
ONAN t C... "Sometimes an Accident is just that..." Agreed but that would be picking up a nail in a front tyre and losing control on a bend...not simply being careless about pulling out into a junction...that's driving without due care and attention and in my book..whether you do that because you been drinking or through sheer bloody carelessness the result should be the same...a long time without a licence.

STEINYCAN...." Sometimes it's just too difficult to judge speed... especially of an oncoming vehicle"... very scary indeed.... Nobody is expecting you to 'name' the speed...just to know whether pulling out would constitute a danger to the oncoming vehicle...I would prefer that you travelled by bus.

It amazes me that drivers who are generally more than competant but who fall below an acceptable level of driving after 4 beers ( which might amount to only 1 % of their time on the road ) are treated on a par with child molesters...yet a large group of people who are incabable of ever reaching an acceptable driving standard are tolerated... being unable to judge the speed of an oncoming vehicle should definately prohibit someone from holding a driving licence. (and before any speculators wonder if I've ever been prosecuted under drink driving laws the answer is NO and I would not defend anyone who has... )

allan907
4th Feb 2006, 07:21
The film is deliberately shot without the bike in the first frames so that the viewer on seeing the re-run thinks to themself,"Crikey even I didn't see it at first - therefore I am not a good a driver as I think I am and I must be more aware". Fact is, my old chums, is that there wuz never a bike there in the first place.

Sublime message - Keep a good watch out for things that aren't really there.

Truth in advertising?????? (or merely Big Brother)

steinycans
4th Feb 2006, 11:10
STEINYCAN...." Sometimes it's just too difficult to judge speed... especially of an oncoming vehicle"... very scary indeed.... Nobody is expecting you to 'name' the speed...just to know whether pulling out would constitute a danger to the oncoming vehicle...I would prefer that you travelled by bus.

Thankyou for your response to my post MungoP.

I am sorry if you missed it but if you had have read the para. directly beneth and in the same post as the one you partially quoted, you would have noted an example of what i meant.

i will repost it for your benefit:

for example, if you are expecting cars to be coming along at the 50kph speed limit then some turkey comes screaming along at 90, you are likely to misjudge their speed (not to mention mindset of expecting people to be driving along at the speed limit)

and i went on to talk about blind corners and related hazards.

To coin a phrase, what i find very scary indeed is the fact that an ATPL pilot can read something and imply virtually the opposite.

further, you will not find me travelling by bus as my part-time employment (while persuing a CPL/ATPL) is as a courier driver (aka box taxi) and i am on the road

11 HOURS PER DAY without so much as a snack break

i'm sorry but you were really rather insulting, your incorrect spelling of my username notwithstanding

Bealzebub
4th Feb 2006, 11:12
It is quite striking isn't it? (Forgive the pun) Especially worrying since I plan to get my motorcycle license within a few weeks. :uhoh:

This advert is shown in the UK but it does not have the initial crash shot.


Where I live in th UK the full clip is run on commercial TV channels. It is a great advert with a good message. Made me jump the first time I saw it as well. Even now I cringe when I watch it. This ad deserves to win awards and as an ex bike rider I will certainly reinforce my awareness in this regard.

ATN
4th Feb 2006, 11:24
Drive safe, drive like you're insivible, because to them cagers you are.

ATN

Willows
4th Feb 2006, 16:50
Drive safe, drive like you're insivible, because to them cagers you are.

Invisible? I'd not like to be invisible on the road. Seen to be safe! :}

I remembered an article in Bike magazine from March 2005 which is related to this advert.

"New research has revealed how a principle called 'motion camouflage' can makes bikes blend into the background and vanish to a driver directly up ahead. A related optical effect called 'looming' makes them visible again at the last minute - but this makes the driver momentarily freeze in his tracks. (Rabbit in the headlights, eh?)

Looming works on the part of the brain's cortex that uses 'edge detection' to alert it to the presence of movement. If the edge of an object - such as a bike moving down a street - cannot be detected, then no alert is trigged. Dragonflies use the trick to sneak up on their prey and missile engineers are adopting it to make their ballistics harder to dodge.

When dragonflies hunt, they keep on a line between a fixed point in the landscape and its prey. If the prey moves, the dragonfly moves with it, keeping the fixed point directly behind it at all times - effectively hiding from the prey. This works because the outline of the dragonfly remains in the same place against its background, making it hard for the prey to detect its movement. At some point close to the prey, the dragonfly 'looms' into view. But it's too late for the prey."

There is a lot in this article and none of it is official research but basically, to help prevent "motion camouflage" as you approach a junction with a driver pulling out, a smooth, gentle, single, zig-zag motion creates a rapid edge movement against the background and destroys the motion camouflage. The other drivers eye snaps towards the biker and he/she (should) hold their actions. Obviously weaving can be dangerous but do so at your discretion.

The best advice is probably to just slow right down at junctions as other motorists might not see you either. If another drive makes the first mistake, don't you make the second.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2006, 17:07
In Germany they have the right attitude - there is no such thing as a road accident per se; someone is always to blame.

Presumably, "not seeing" someone is therefore not a valid excuse.

"Look once, look twice, think "Bike"......... is a good saying
and not just whilst perusing the local talent at a party :E

ATN
4th Feb 2006, 17:25
Willows,

I meant "as if you were invisible".

ATN

Shaggy Sheep Driver
4th Feb 2006, 19:38
All cyclists and bikers (I'm both) are familiar with 'sorry mate, I didn't see you'. Sad fact is, the numpties who utter this are probably telling the truth.

The human eye/brain combination is a strange thing. The eye does not act as a CCTV camera, giving the brain an accurate picture of what's out there. Instaed, the brain makes all sorts of assumptions about what's out there based of experience, and the input from the eyes just fills in the bits it needs to know about specifically. Thus, if the brain does not expect to see something, there's good chance it won't be seen - unless the brain is specifically looking for it.

The motorist pulling out of of a side turn is specifically looking for 'threats' - things that it would not be a good idea to pull out in front of. So a Chieftain tank would definately register on the brain cells, as would an HGV, and even a car. A bicycle, and to a lesser extent a motorbike, might not.It's not as if the motorist sees the bike and pulls out anyway - they genuinly do not see it, and are genuinely surprised and shocked when a near miss or an impact occurs because of this.

That's why the 'think bike' message is so important. If the motorist makes a concious effort to look for bikes, any that are there will be seen. If not, it may genuinely be a csae of SMIDSY.

SSD

allan907
5th Feb 2006, 01:22
This is exactly the same problemette with flying (sorry to bring it back to an aviation theme). Another aircraft which is going to collide with you remains stationary in both pilots' field of view. The opposing aircraft is only seen when a collision cannot be avoided because at that point there is relative movement (picture in brain gets bigger awful fast).

As pilots we are taught not to stare aimlessly out of the cockpit window but to do a methodical visual search in a series of steps for a second or two at a time. If you have relative movement then the chances of a collision (and seeing the opposition) are greatly reduced.

Perhaps cyclists/bikers ought to fly a fecking big flag which flaps in the slipstream and creates relative movement?

MungoP
5th Feb 2006, 07:26
STEINYCANS...( sorry to have missed the S at the end on my earlier response... )
At risk of this becoming a personal debate I have to answer your accusation of not reading your entire post..I did indeed read the relevent paragraph but to be honest thought it ludicrous and not worth a comment. To have a 'mind set' that causes you to believe that people will be moving at the speed limit or any other speed is a hugely dangerous approach to driving. Why not stop/Look/ Asses, and then proceed if safe to do so...as for blind bends etc...No I don't expect anyone to have the ability to look around corners...but if there is a blind bend not too far away...why not wait until the road is completely clear in both directions and then get across as fast as possible.

I have enjoyed 35 years of driving both cars and m/cycles on every continent excepting Antarctica and apart from the m/cycle crash mentioned above and being hit twice from behind while stationary have not been involved in an accident. SHY TORQUES ref to the German approach that very few accidents are 'accidents' is correct and I believe if adopted by UK police would go a long way to making our roads safer... we could start with...3 'accidents' in 3 years = 1 year loss of licence plus compulsory re-training.

You want it when?
5th Feb 2006, 15:02
IMHO - Bikers are nutters who push the envelope as much as they can. Yes I watch out for bikes and move over to give them room but in the advert in question what speed was the bike doing? A tad more than 30 at a guess - otherwise he'd have stopped or tried to avoid the accident.

It's a good message, but hashed up by the advertising types - as per normal.

So far I've never hit a bike (or been hit by one) but I've been tempted... :mad:

haughtney1
5th Feb 2006, 15:06
This ad explains to me EXACTLY why I drive a car, and will never roll the dice and ride a motorbike on the road:hmm:

Shaggy Sheep Driver
5th Feb 2006, 21:45
This ad explains to me EXACTLY why I drive a car, and will never roll the dice and ride a motorbike on the road:hmm:

You may well be right, and I can certainly see the logical sense in what you say. But I rode my bike, in the company of a great bunch of fellow bikers, down to the Sahara and back home to Cheshire last October. It was a wonderful experience that will stay with me for ever, and something that I'd have missed out on if I wasn't a biker.

Sometimes you just have have to take a few risks to experience life's great possibilities.

SSD

Synthetic
5th Feb 2006, 22:05
As a twenty five years served biker - I had one rule. If I was in an accident, it was my fault, either because I had done something stupid myself, or because I had failed to anticipate the stupidity of others.

Worked remarkably well.

feet dry
6th Feb 2006, 08:53
Wise words indeed Synthetic. The only time I have fallen off on the road as a result of another party was a right turning Vauxhall, the driver of which had been distracted by their progeny. In retrospect, a big warning flag should have been raised in my brain, the driver had turned around in the seat looking into the back at something - turned back to face the front and promptly pulled away not seeing me. What followed was my first taste of non-powered flight!

These days, considering myself reasonably experienced, I take notice of as much as I can, make eye contact wherever possible and have a huge grin on my face every time I get to where I am going!

Chin up, knee down!

UniFoxOs
6th Feb 2006, 09:23
Quite right, Synthetic - couldn't agree more. Applies to when I'm in a car as well.

UFO

PS does anybody know how to make a hologram slide that you could fit over your headlight to project the image of a dirty great truck??

Rushton
6th Feb 2006, 14:43
Stupid car driver. Should have pulled out quicker and let bike hit back door and saved him the risk of being hit by bike or biker. Look once look twice then look after yerself.

Whoops, runs off to bunker - more incoming shells.

chuks
6th Feb 2006, 16:34
I wouldn't get too excited about the idea of projecting a dirty great truck, thus keeping self safe from idiot 'cagers' (automobilists in outlaw biker-speak).

I remember this colleague returning from an accident out on I-95 in southern Connecticut. He was stowing this rather large pry bar, when I asked what he'd been up to with that. It seems a semi- had hit a car that had turned across its path, so that the truck driver needed to pry his bumper back off a front wheel. That was the extent of his problems.

'And the guy in the car?' My man just looked at me, grinned and shook his head. Oh.

Well, at least that's one less possibly to cut in front of a motorcycle.

It's not all doom and gloom; I had a biker friend who was plagued by this horrible little dog that would come rushing out of its driveway, almost under his wheels, barking its fool head off defending its own patch of road. Of course there was no point in getting the dog's owners to control it in those days. Everyone knew that motorcyclists were suicidal, anti-social scum who basically deserved whatever happened. Harley-ridin', baby-rapin' dirtbags. Well, this was a bit before 'You meet the nicest people on a Honda,' you see.

So one day he was coming down the far side of the road from La Casa Perro, with a big old gravel truck, a Diamond Reo ten-tonner, coming the other way at full chat. A little adjustment to his timing and it was business as usual for about two seconds for his canid tormentor until it was a case of 'problem solved.'