Aerial Observers Question.

[on21]

I have very, and I mean very limited navigation experience, and on the few occasions I have been up, I have found it difficult to associate what I see on the ground to places I know.

I am just curious, are there any trick that would assist a novice in guiding a helicopter to a certain tasked point, or equating the ground position to an A to Z street plan. I’m especially interested in Police type tasking.

If the answer is “just get in the air and learn” it takes practice then so be it!

[headsethair]

Look for big recognisable features and get your bearings from those. And practise by using Google Earth - the 1500 ft "eye" position is remarkably good particularly in the limited areas where they have a hi-res image.

[Colonal Mustard]

I used to fly tween 50 and 700 feet,at about 100 knts (which gives you about 8 seconds ) i would suggest looking for the following:

Wood`s
Railway lines
Road`s (motorway type first)
lakes
landmarks

spot a solitary reference (which is one of those above) enough distance ahead (which should be abouts the furthest you can get) and organise your map accordingly before committing to it....


Then repeat all over again

[MightyGem]

on21, taking a stab in the dark with your user name, why don't you arrange a trip with your local ASU? :rolleyes:

[overpitched]

Just remember these 3 letters. G P S

[Broken Beagle]

It's a very good question, but sadly, not one that can be easily answered. I have approximately 1000 hours in my book and will admit that low level nav is still something that I have to concentrate on. As has already been said, look for the big features along the track that you intend to travel. Big vertical features are the key to this game. Look for TV aerials, church spires/steeples and similar. If you have time, calculate the distance you expect to travel and then convert that into time. In a helicopter a crude calculation is 2 miles per minute. Draw a straight line on your map and mark off set distances along your line. If you expect to reach a certain place/object after 10 minutes, you can use that as a gross error check if all else fails.

Another useful piece of advice I was offered was to try and learn all of the legends on the map. This will help you to identify what you are looking at on the ground against what you see represented on your map. Keep your head out of the cockpit and look ahead as far as you can see. Don't look at the ground below you, your lost if you have to look down. Always trust the map, it is usually right, if the ground looks wrong then don't blame the map!!

We all have our own way, these are just some of the things that I found useful. Talk to the pilots in your operation they will all have their own opinion. Most of it will be useful as some of the pilots I know thinks it's great that someone else gets the blame when we are lost!!

[Thomas coupling]

Why would you be interested in our 'type tasking' then?

There is no quick way to learn nav...start like everyone else...do the groundschool first:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

[blade root]

TC,

Having spent some years as a Observer (Police) this may help.

1) You need a detailed map, preferably a street directory (if over the city)
2) Look for big features (shopping centres, freeway overpasses etc.)
3) Once yo have located the big features, work from there.
4) Start navigating from departure. Always looking ahead for next feature.
5) I have worked with guys who rotate the map so it faces North at all times,
I found that to be confusing (personal preference)
6) Practice, practice.

Hope that helps

[robschopper]

I would agree with all of the above.

In rural areas, railway lines, motorways and their junctions are always identifiable. Lakes and rivers stand out well from a distance. If you're working from a quarter mil map power lines are a good reference (and always worth spotting early if you're low level).

In the towns and cities, parks, railway stations, large road junctions. Going to A to Z level, schools usually have large playing fields, unusual shaped road layouts.

.....And then someone turns the lights out!

Navigating at night is a whole different ball game 'cos most of the above are invisible. You are left with well lit road and motorway junctions, and things like the well lit shopping centre signs. Tesco in Coventry can be seen from about 10 miles out.

Following a railway line in the dark is interesting. You may only have a signal light every mile to follow... but then there's always the NiteSun!

Local knowledge is a great help and is something that can only be built up over time. Most of the ASUs in the U.K. will know their own areas so well that they only need an A to Z to find the side roads.

The main thing the pilot wants you to tell him is where the boundry of the ATZ is. Getting lost is embarrassing, but busting the zone really upsets him.

Finally, never be afraid to admit you are 'temporarily unaware of your postion'. Wonderful things Helicopters ... you can always stop until you work out where you are. Failing that ... ask a policeman!

[Thomas coupling]

bladeroute and robschopper: thanks for that, had no idea it was that complex! Only been doing it and teaching it for 27 years mind you:eek:

Watch my lips:

Why does this guy want to learn about police nav tactics in the first place:suspect: [The smilie is a clue].

Why does he want to run like hell before he can crawl? :suspect: [Another smilie clue].

:ugh:

[robschopper]

T.C.

ON21 asked the question, we gave an answer.

I know it's easy for us when we know how. After all ... you taught me!

We still miss the odd zone boundry though!

Speak soon.

R.

[on21]

Thank you for all the positive responses :ok: , it just gives me a bit of a heads up in a very competitive area, and every little helps.

TC I'm not biting, and if everything goes to plan, I’m sure I’ll be asking for a great deal more assistance in the future! Don’t be so cynical there are some good guy still out there you know.

[Pontious]

Thomas Coupling
I find your answers to ON21's request for assistance and information a tad too acidic for my liking. I bet your are a typical 'I know it all instructor' and one that revels in your own self importance and an all round 'bar stool flyer'. I don't know how many thousands of hours you have but I wouldn't want you to be teaching me. Your arrogance has no place in any pocket of Aviation, let alone teaching.
Have you considered On21 MAY be considering a career as on Observer? Whether its Military, Civil or Police he is asking people for a drop of insight into the job of his dreams so do the decent thing and offer a bit of help or keep your acid attacks to yourself and shut the **** up!
On21
Keep a keen eye on your map orientation.
Pull features in from the horizon towards you as coastlines, terrain, rivers, large conurbations all feature on Topo' charts with Motorway junctions/intersections becoming very prominent at night.
Practice transferring info. from Topos to Ordanance Survey or even A-Z maps as this will help you develop your own 'Situational Awareness' which is critical.
GPS is fine but only really comes into its own when operating in featureless terrain such as bleak moorland or farmland- you cant beat Mk1 Eyeball and good map reading skills. It comes with practice, experience and good training.
Get in touch if you fancy going up for a bit of a NavEx.
Ciao for now.
:ok:

[SASless]

TC,

Changed my mind TC....PM on the way. I don't want to ruin a good friendship over what I have to say to you.....for the board...it ain't TC's friendship I fear losing.

ON21....listen to the good advice given by the others....it was sound thinking.

I personally turn the map in the direction I am going so things on the map show up relative to what I am seeing out the cockpit windows. I keep my finger on a known point I am sure of....and look forward to find another identifiable point and then move my finger up to it when I get there. If I have a GPS and time before hand, I mark my map with the mileage counting down to my destination....that way with the waypoint for the destination called up and the distance to run figure should correspond to the distance marked on the map and no mental gymnastics are required. (Killed way too many brains cells with alcohol to do maths)

Looking for barrier landmarks helps when your Observer gets himself lost....as TC will tell you...the Captain (pilot in Spamese) is responsible for all things aviation to include nav, atc, flying and keeping the talking ballast entertained.

By barriers...I mean easily identifiable linear features one has to cross to become really lost and not just merely distracted. Motorways, rivers, railways, and things like that work a treat.

Another useful trick is find a couple of landmarks that lie in the same direction of your desired track....and fly a heading such the actual track of the aircraft falls along those points. Again, no math is needed to calculate the correct heading to counter wind drift. If you are tracking along the correct path on the ground...in time you shall arrive at your destination.

If doing the nav work while the other guy is driving....if you begin to get a bit "distracted" ...fess up and tell him. Being a good guy as most pilots really are (TC seems to be the exception lately) he will be glad to help you out. In time, if TC finds an easy woman or whatever floats his boat ...maybe he would help you too.

[Coconutty]

ON21 - That's a great suggestion from Broken Beagle about learning the OS Map legends -
You've probably already bought an OS map of your local area -
Time spent studying it will be well worthwhile.

Study the contour lines of the map and with practice
you should be able to form a mental picture of the terrain - hills etc .....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/BredonHillOS.jpg

A "3D" view of the above might look something like this ( viewed from the East )

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/BredonHill3D.jpg

Check your PM's for more "O.S." info !

:ok:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/coconut.jpg
Coconutty