STRESS - Its the Flt Cdr's responsibility!

[Could be the last?]

Just had a lecture on stress; it included the whys and wherefore's and how to spot an individual who is suffering. Great! However, I also found out that I am responsible under HSE, for providing a risk assessment for the flt; and if I do not address an individual who is suffering from stress then I am liable.

I am pretty sure that the route cause of most anxiety and stress in the workplace is that everything is task driven. Therefore, in a climate of Lean, redundancies and where the shortages of manpower is ubiquitous, the chances of professional aviators and their support staff suffering from a stress related illness is pretty high.

Can someone explain why I am liable?

[truckiebloke]

Yes... so that it is one less thing for the government to be liable for!!

good luck though!!

[ZH875]

Can someone explain why I am liable? That's the priveledge of being an Officer. I think it may be called Man Management, something that we are told our managers have plenty of experience of...

The solution is simple - ensure your erks are given plenty of time off to de-stress, and never mind that the job is not done, and finally, even as a boss, you will have a boss, complain you are suffering from stress and demand some more gardening leave.:ok:

No Stress. :=

[southside]

Yep, concur with those guys....have a read of your commission...thats why you get paid so much

[LFFC]

Maybe you should have gone for the PAS route. Less responsibility, less work - bigger pension. What more could you ask for? :p

[JessTheDog]

The solution....write down your concerns and send them to the Sqn Cdr! :}

You could even offer to appear in court as a witness in the event of legal action!

[truckiebloke]

Typical unsupportive stuff -

This guy has a real point here - we are constantly asked to do far more than we can do, and more often than not, told to do it ( from the top recently by Jock Stirrup saying we can cope, when we are far stretched already)

Being a Flt Cdr is a thankless job at the best of times, and everyone i have met so far has done his absolute best for the Sqn. Being made 'liable' for people claiming stress is just another way to offload the burden onto the individual, rather than the hierachy simply admitting we do too much already, with too few people.

[Compressorstall]

If you cruise the RAF Web and look in some of the APs, you will find there is quite a lot of good stuff written about stress, mainly on operations, but even PJHQ has its say. I am not a doctrine Nazi, I merely discovered it by chance and thought it would be a good idea.

[Wyler]

I thought stress was a medical condition and, if so, it can only be diagnosed by a Doctor. Therefore, if you are in any doubt, refer them to the Doc. Not sloping shoulders, a reasonable course of action.

[Brit55]

It may be a medical condition Wyler however, should we not always seek to root out the cause of stress in the workplace and, wherever possible, reduce it.

An unusual drop in somebody's standard of work is often the first indicator that all is not well and I'd like to think that we all look for it in each other, especially the aircrew amongst us. Would any of you Navs out there climb into the back of a Tonka knowing that the pilot you were about to fly with (taxi out, go u/s and taxi back in for you F3 chappies! := ) was not on form and under undue stress, nope.

I'm sure every branch and trade could come up with an equally valid scenario. It is everbodies responsibility to look for stress in others from JNCO up IMHO. Flt Cdrs simply have to use the available tools in order to deal with it.

B55

[Wyler]

Brit 55

I agree totally. My point is we are not equipped to treat stress, just recognise something is amiss and call in the experts.

[Brit55]

Wyler,

I totally appreciate your point, just wanted to point out that the cause is often right in front of us.

Might even book myself an appt at SMC tomorrow nah, B*ll*x to it, I'll just have another glass of wine! :ok:

[Could be the last?]

The Docs reiterated on numerous occasions that stress is NOT a medical condition!:confused:

[Safety_Helmut]

It is difficult to see how Flt Cdr's/Line Managers can deal with the sort of stresses that I see on a day to day basis. Working in the DLO (yep, someone has to) I see project teams that have been cut to the bone, and in many cases, beyond that. Some of these are massive programmes, the staff know that they are not doing all that should be done to support the procurement, not through choice, but simply because there are not enough hours in their day. Oh yes, and some chimp has seen fit to Lean the IPT. but they display the usual can-do attitude, unfortunately the system is almost broken. We seem to be scraping by and doing the bare minimum and this will undoubtedly cost us dearly in the long run. So what is a SO3/SO2 or even SO1 to do. The problems have been caused and exacerbated way above their payscales.

Safety_Helmut

[Kim Il Jong]

Stress is a natural response to a challenge. The flight/fight mechanism (that would relieve prehistoric stress in homo sapiens and aircrew) is no longer aplicable to the modern world. The only thing that can relieve stress in the modern office-base world is ACTION.

That is why civil servants in low paid, menial jobs who have no power to do anything except put giant hurdles in the way of all military projects are all "under stress". yet they have some of the most simple, easy stress-free jobs of anyone. They relieve their 'stress' by taking sickies or lining their pockets by profiting from H&S initiatives that block true progress.

The moment ANYONE takes ACTION they immediately relieve their stess, Sitting and moaning about how it used to be (When I was on Wessex/Sea king Hunter, the V force, whatever, could be, if only etc etc etc does nothing but incapacitate which leads to "Stress"

Rant Over

WAKE UP, Smell the coffee OR get left behind get "STRESS" or just get on with your post/job life. Easy.

[JessTheDog]

I was at a stress workshop before I left, which had a psychologist and a couple of medical officers and most of the Stn Execs. It was a useful exercise and everyone was concerned about the issue of stress, but I think the realisation dawned quickly on all present that they were sitting on top of a stress volcano! However, the aspiration was to develop a Stn stress management policy and not simply dump it on the Flt Cdrs/Sqn Cdrs.

[tucumseh]

“That is why civil servants in low paid, menial jobs who have no power to do anything except put giant hurdles in the way of all military projects are all "under stress". yet they have some of the most simple, easy stress-free jobs of anyone. They relieve their 'stress' by taking sickies or lining their pockets by profiting from H&S initiatives that block true progress”.


I think you should qualify this by stating what civil service jobs you are referring to. Presumably not those who spend most of their time trying to get sensible decisions out of an incoherent DEC in London. Some of these serving officers are, in my view, extremely stressed. For example, if you are not an engineer you cannot do 60% of a Requirement Manager’s job in DPA, so I imagine it is difficult continually having to off-load your work on those low paid menials who are trained to make it look easy, but who have been dumbed-down as posts had to found for an apparent excess of highly trained officers. Neither is to blame.

May I suggest you mean those with authority but little or no responsibility, such as financiers, suppliers, HR/Personnel (the worst of the lot at causing stress among staff); and the increasing numbers of non-technical staff filling posts requiring detailed technical knowledge of extremely complex systems. Lacking basic knowledge, they are in no position to take the action you correctly speak of. Believe me, I have worked on projects where we let the boss chair a technical meeting, and then came back the following day without him to do it properly. It is they who waste money and create delay.

[Pontius Navigator]

<<You could even offer to appear in court as a witness in the event of legal action!>>

This is the ultimate HSE get out of jail free card [B]or[B] the one that ensures you have good company there.

Seriously, is H&S, if you are aware of something then you are also responsible be you the worker, his mate, his boss or THE BOSS. It immediately kills the 'I didn't know' excuse (decode I am incompetent).

As long as you pass it up the line your 6 is covered. But you must do it in a 'can do' manner and not a whinging 'can't do' manner. A stress shared is a stress halved, ask any bridge.:)

I had a great boss once in a job that was not obviously stressful just a regular 6 day week with 10 and 14 hour shifts. He was not around on the 14 hours shifts. I began making mistakes, a colleague brought this to the bosses attention, he had a word with me and saw that I got more rest for a day or so and less stress for a while. Careful management is needed at all times. Don't be too work focused.

The jet fell over, the training trip didn't happen. C'est la vie - it will never happen but another trip will come along.

[PerArdua]

Under Duty of Care, as a flight commander your manpower must matter to you otherwise you might as well have been commissioned as admin. You should know enough about your people that you can pick up on changes in their demeanor or character, which tend to highlight stress and other problems. You should also talk to others in the chains of command regularly and highlight any concerns you may have of either workloads or individuals. By keeping an open mind and ,dare i say it, an open door, these stress related issues come to you, you don't have to go and find them. I know we are all stretched past a comfortable elastic limit with all the lean, cost savings and reducing manpower numbers as a result of redundancy, but by accepting the commission or promotion you are placed in a position of authority, the guys might hate you, if you are lucky they will tolerate you but your job is to look after the most important resource the Services have, the manpower. Just because the ivory towers have lost the plot does not mean that those of us lower down have to. I fully acknowledge that my career will go no where because I look after my guys first and the job second but that is my interpretation of my commission.

Stress is out there and some of the troops handle it differently, the trick is to know when it is kicking in, identify how your guys handle it and look after the ones who have problems and 'Could be the last' you are liable because they are your guys but you are not the only one, when a problem is detected that is beyond your capabilities their is a vast support structure that takes it off your hands and either makes it better or move the individual to a more suitable post, in consultation with you both. You will not get sued if you miss it because the individual has hidden it really well from everybody but if it was obvious and everyone new except you I would think that you would deserve to get a hammering for it.

I am sorry the above is written as I thought it and not laid out as per JSP101 but this is a subject I have strong feelings for having seen how it can fail an individual but also recently how for a couple of my guys the system kicked in and made it better.

This is one thing that as a flight commander you can make a difference and not blame the system.

PA

[dallas]

Seems a little unfair on flt cdrs who cause their people stress - kind of a catch 22 really... :hmm:

[Lima Juliet]

Can I just venture this:
I had a lecture on stress from a retired USAF Flight Surgeon at RAFCAM who explained that stress is a perfectly natural phenomena. In fact he offered that it was actually unhealthy to live without it!! Of course, everything in moderation, my lad, everything in moderation...
He also seemed to know what he was talking about - kinda strange for RAFCAM these days.:}
LJ
PS I am an very-slightly stressed Flt Cdr at the moment...read into that what you will; but I hope to see you all at the Cenotaph in 2035!

[RayDarr]

Stress is always with us, and we need a little in our everyday lives. True, but we don't need too much, and your "good" stress, is my excessive stress. The H&S situation on this is fairly easy, stress is a hazard, like any other hazard. A manager (in civi life. call it what uyou like in the services) is responsible for the H&S of his employees (troops...get the picture) and thus is required by law to Risk Assess the tasks being udertaken. Where a risk exists, the employer (in our case the service) must take those steps which are reasonable to reduce the risk. The steps required must be comensurate with the risk. So small risks don't need much, but big risks need lots. When you look at a task, you need resourse to complete it. This will be people, time, training, tools, equipment...and so on. If a resourse is limited, you can't always do the job safely, and that will cause stress, itself a hazard to safety. Make sure your boss knows, as resourse is allocated by your boss (or his boss)
If anything goes wrong, and you as a manager have acted responsibly, and with "due dilligence" you are not responsible for any injury to your people. The finger moves tothe person above you who did not act reasonably. This may well be the person who knows you are under resoursed, but still expects the job to be done.

[Kim Il Jong]

Tucumseh,
Was merely using civil servants as an example. Anyone Who doesnot feel empowered in their workplace may become stressed.

That is why, as a flt cdr, recognising stress in individuals and giving them time off will not relieve stress, it just postpones things for a while. Stress will only be relieved when they are empowered to change the stressful issue. If that is not possible then a flt cdr should act to address the issue, but this is the second best option because another issue will crop up and the the cycle will will occur again. Far better to empower because action is the true reliever of stress. That is why stress exists and is a natural phenomenon, without a motivating stressor then there is no reason th change anything or progress towards any new goal.

I am easily stressed at work but as soon as i take action on an issue, the stress goes away, i am one step nearer any goal, and my level of personal satisfaction is one tiny bit higher. A few days after the implementation of a solution I look backand think why on earth was i stresses about that????

I was highlighting a well-known fact that stress is often to be found in those that either cannot or will not act to change things. This is those in the workplace that have no power to change anything.

Leon J, I'm sure it is that flight doc (top geezer) who says " If you do not feel stress then you are clinically DEAD"

[RayDarr]

Difficult thing is stress. What is OK for you might knock me for six. In an armed force we need to work under stress, but not all the time. It might be good to wind up the levels in an exercise, or important operation, but then wind them down again and let everyone relax. Trouble is, that don't seem possible these days.
OK, what to do about it.
First, stress is a work hazard, and contact with that hazard may cause accidents, and as a manager, you should Risk Assess all work place risks, including stress. To do any task, you need resource. This may be people, training. time, equipment...etc. If you don't have enough, you increase stress, and increase the risk of accident. having assessed the risk, bring the Risk Assessment to the notice of your boss. Point out what is needed. He can't then say he didn't know. Then, do the best you can. When the accident happens, you will have been seen to have acted reasonably, and with "due dilligence" and so you are off the hook. You are only liable in law if you have acted negligently.
The investigation now looks for who is responsible. This is usually the senior manager (or perhaps Station Commander in service speak) He is the person who did not give you the resource you needed, but still expected you to do the job. In civi language, he is the "Controlling Mind" and so is ultimatly responsible.
Don't let people say that Flight Commanders/SNCO i/c Flights will carry the can if an accident happens. This in H&S law is just not true. That is unless YOU have acted negligently.
The General Duties put on an employee (i.e. a member of the RAF of whatever rank) under Section 2 of the H&S at Work Act 1974 only require him to co-operate with his employer (i.e.the RAF) and to do what is reasonable to prevent his workmates doing anything dangerous. The employer on the other hand has lots of duties. Telling the workforce that THEY are reponsible is complete Bulls**t.
(Invoice for professional consultation is in the post)

[CashMachine]

Could be the last?

You seem a little surprised that you are responsible for something under HSE!

I would suggest you get yourself on a Health and safety course (Managing Safely, Risk Assessment etc) you'll be mortified to discover exactly what you are responsible for!

You're a "Line Manager" and therefore responsible under HSE for the "health, safety and welfare" of all those people you have authority over!!!!!!:eek:

[adr]

Stress is a natural response to a challenge. [...] The only thing that can relieve stress [...] is ACTION. [...]
The moment ANYONE takes ACTION they immediately relieve their stess[....]
Best twenty-something words about stress I've read in as many years. :ok:
adr

[Could be the last?]

I don't have a problem with responsibility and that is exactly why I do the job I do. In fact, unlike some I have worked for in the past, I actually want to give the best to the guys (and girls). However, It would be helpful if I was made fully aware of what I was liable for and have the correct training to deal with it; courses on HSE, Amport Hse etc are like Rocking Horse S:mad: . And shouldn't they mandatory for an individual taking up a Flt Cdr's post?

[Theword]

Dude,

some simple advice that will keep you out of the Sxxt. If you think theres a problem with one or more of your staff, use the Stn resources, report it and keep you chain of command informed....try SHSO, SMO, PMS, Sqn Cdr, ect...you become liable if you do nothing and stick you head in the sand, or indeed if you are responsible for causing the stress.....

[CashMachine]

Could be the last

Yes, you're right. These courses should be mandatory for people taking up certain positions.
In the meantime, get your name down for as many courses as possible and if you know of a course going on phone them on the morning of the start of the course to see if there are any no shows.

[RayDarr]

Guys,
You are obviously not taking notice of my post. If there is a H&S problem which results in an investigation by the HSE, the junior manager.Flt Cdr is not likely to end up in the dock. The aim is to find the "Controlling Mind" This is (in industry) usually the MD or Chief Exec In the service it would be the Stn Cdr, or perhaps his boss, the AOC. You are only going to be prosecuted if your actions were negligent. All you need to do is the best you can, and have evidence (copies of memo's etc) that you have raised the problems with your superior, and have done all in your power. He/She is then in the frame NOT YOU. This applies to all peacetime risks not just stress. Just make sure you have done your job correctly, and make sure you keep copies of letters/e-mails at home so they don't mysteriously go missing just when you need them.
Your responsibility depends on your rank/grade. The lower down the tree you are, the less you are responsible. This means of course, the higher up the tree you are the more you are responsible. Ultimatly therefore the Stn Cdr is responsible for all H&S on his station. H&S responsibility cant in law be devolved down. In law, the Stn Cdr can give his staff responsibilities towards the H&S of those working in their areas, but he is always ultimatly responsible himself. Save yourself a load of worry guys. Just do the job as best you can, and make sure the problems are pushed up to where they should be.

[Flatus Veteranus]

THe more I read of this sort of thread, the more I despair of the present-day RAF. Was it not Curt LeMay, the legendary founder of SAC who, when asked whether he suffered from ulcers, shifted his cigar to the other cheek, spat, and said "I don't get ulcers - I give them!"

It is a Flight Commander's job to put pressure ("stress") on his subordinates, and it is the Squadron Commander's job to put pressure on the Flight Commanders. And so on up to CAS. If there is a weak link who cracks, replace him/her.

From what I read in this forum, people do far less flying than they did in 50s-70s, the overseas tours are much shorter, and the general conditions of service are softer. The only thing that is worse is the volume of grizzling.

I write the foregoing secure in the knowledge that I shall be in Frogland for the next week and will thus dodge most of the incoming! Cheers!:*

[Onan the Clumsy]

Actually, I distinctly remember one of my commands when I had very serious concerns about one of my crew. Due to training requirements, I couldn't afford to cut him loose, but I also wanted to be fair if his symptoms were real. To cut a long story short, after a great deal of effort and time on my part, I found out that he wasn't actually suffering from Stress, it was merely a case of Emphasis.