Air Tran. training and first year pay.

[Ignition Override]

Hi: A buddy might consider applying to AirTran. He has never trained on an FMC-equipped c0ckp1t and is not comfortable with the idea of trying the unknown, but is in his 40s and needs to change his job and deserves some income potential (King Air charter), which is now excluded by politics, charter business short-term greed etc. He has probably 6,000 hours twin-engine PIC and a small part of that is twin-turbine.

Is anyone familiar with the style and dedication of Air Tran's training department?

Are new-hires almost always trained on the B-717 and are there adequate training devices (fixed-base & desk-top) for a given Initial Tng. Syllabus?
Is first year 717 FO pay as is reflected on the site "airlinepilotpay.com"? Any extra for overtime?

Do many highly-experienced general aviation pilots consider themselves under-qualified, after flying 8,000 hours or more, solo in Twin Commanders, Cessna 310s and later in King Air C-90s, due to having less (golden) PIC turbine experience?

[Nevrekar]

To answer some of your questions.

1. First year pay is as reflected on the website you referenced. Top pay is around 152/hr. Upgrade is running around 3 years.

2. Monthly guarantee is 70 hrs. Expect to be on Reserve for 3-4 months.
If you live in Atlanta, it is easier to pick up open trips thereby increasing your monthly pay. Reserve schedules normally have 10 days off.

3. Hiring is about 10-20 month. Competition is very stiff as applicants are highly qualified. Almost all are previous 121 Capts. We recently hired a 22 yr USair Capt and a 20 yr Delta Capt. If you get an interview do the prep with AirInc. If you go to AirInc seminar it seems to help.

4. We have over 100 airplanes now. Hiring for both B717/B737. Training is very thorough but fair. B717 training is a bit harsher than the B737 from recent reports. Lots of old Eastern Airlines instructors--old school philosophy.
Folks without FMS experience have had problems in the past--But they have FMS trainers etc. If you put in the effort and have a positive attitude--very important--they will help you through it. Aircraft selection is based on DOB.
Senior guys get first pick on aircraft type. Many pick the 717 as there is more flying with that fleet type (80 plus aircraft).

5. AirTran is a great place to be. I have been here almost 5 yrs and have no complaints. Hope this info helps.

[Ignition Override]

Hi Nevrekar: Thank you for the info. a couple of years ago I sat with an AirTran flightcrew during a layover. They both really liked the company.
One of the pilots is from a very distant, flat, cold land, and seems to have had a colorful background in the US flying for some "interesting" freight airlines.

[olakenn]

Your buddy needs 500 hours 121 PIC the last time I checked

[carpenter64]

Your buddy needs 500 hours 121 PIC the last time I checked
It always makes me laugh when an airline adds the requirement of "121 pic time". I plain english that translates into " we want you to have 500 hrs. of the easiest most babysat and molly coddled pic time where you only have to show up and some one else has done everything for you." I would hope that this requirement, at what appears to be a quality airline like AirTran, comes from the HR side and not from the pilot side......

[Nevrekar]

Not sure if the FAR 121/135 PIC time is from the HR or the pilot side. Many have had this requirement for many years. Examples include SWA, Fedex.
It has made many applicants ineligble because they may have been a carrier for 10 years and not have upgraded because of seniority rather than ability.
Understandably that can be frustrating. Been there, done that.

As far as 121 PIC being "less than worthy." What are you considering more worthy in terms of PIC or experience? My guesss is that airlines use previous experience as a PIC as a predictor of future success in their training program.
That's just an opinion.

[carpenter64]

Not sure if the FAR 121/135 PIC time is from the HR or the pilot side. Many have had this requirement for many years. Examples include SWA, Fedex.
It has made many applicants ineligble because they may have been a carrier for 10 years and not have upgraded because of seniority rather than ability.
Understandably that can be frustrating. Been there, done that.

As far as 121 PIC being "less than worthy." What are you considering more worthy in terms of PIC or experience? My guesss is that airlines use previous experience as a PIC as a predictor of future success in their training program.
That's just an opinion.

I think that PIC time gained flying piston twins and turbine twins both prop and jet under part 135 requires a great deal more effort on the part of the pilot as it is almost always single pilot or a sand bag building time in the right seat. Certainly evaluating weather and runway conditions and go no go decisions require a great deal more knowledge of the regulations and a greater understanding of a weather map as well the pressure placed on the pilot under 135 operations or even part 91 for that matter.. In the 121 world we have layer upon layer of assistance at every turn and we are well isolated from the "Boss" as well. I will always consider my time spent grinding my way through the 91 and 135 world as the most valuable experience I will ever have. I am confident that my abilities as a pilot and my knowledge of the rules and my ability to read the weather were far, far superior in those days then they are now......everything is interpreted and "dumbed down" at my airline so there is no longer a way to put that knowledge and ability to work anymore.......When airlines add superfluous requirements such as "121" time or Jet PIC time or "over 20000 lb 121 pic turbine time" they shut the door on a huge pool of talent thats all.........

[Nevrekar]

I think most airlines have no problem accepting 135/91 PIC in lieu of 121 or military PIC time. They are primarily looking for command experience. I agree, being a 91/135 PIC especially S/P is definitely more challenging for a pilot.
There is also a lot of unecessary pressure in those positions at times, from the client or the employer. The layers of assistance you allude to aid in making 121 operations one of the safest around. Essentially, it takes the "grey areas" out of the equation, most of the time anyway. Most of us at the 121 carriers have come here after many years at the 135/91 playing field.
Yes, I do agree that 121 flying can actually be quite boring! But I like it that way after 2 decades.

[flyboyike]

Not sure if the FAR 121/135 PIC time is from the HR or the pilot side. Many have had this requirement for many years. Examples include SWA, Fedex.


FedEx doesn't require it, but it's a plus.

[Ignition Override]

FEDEX also requires that three FEDEX pilots recommend an applicant for the job.
Military transport flying is neither Part 121 or 135, but can be like a combination of 91 and 135. They also deal often with fairly inexperienced controllers, who are more used to handling tactical/trainer jets (i.e. NAS Pensacola, even Eglin AFB).

I'll contradict myself a bit here-a civilian (more experienced?) Pensacola Approach controller had us lined up on final at Hurlburt AFB instead of Eglin, and we were in a civilian transport! Fortunately the AFB layout is backwards.
We were running late, and in ops I never bothered to look up his number and call the guy on the phone to enlighten him about his mistake.

Approach controllers can send you to the wrong airport or military base-especially with small weather cells everywhere on the Gulf coast and you are already on a heading straight towards one of them.

[flyboyike]

FEDEX also requires that three FEDEX pilots recommend an applicant for the job.



Yeah, I got that part covered, I just don't quite have the hours yet.