View Full Version : One wing F15?
Nige321
31st Jan 2006, 20:35
is this real??
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/110099.jpg
jimgriff
31st Jan 2006, 20:43
Sure is...Israeli!
LateArmLive
31st Jan 2006, 20:44
REAL fighter pilot stuff! The guy must have been lucky that day.
SpotterFC
31st Jan 2006, 20:51
Or maybe he just had an outstanding FBW system?:}
L1A2 discharged
31st Jan 2006, 21:01
It was on Discovery a few weeks ago. Apparently the speed it kept up prior to and during landing made the lift to the middle of the frame eough to keep the remainder in the air.
markerboy
31st Jan 2006, 21:36
Apparently, due to the wing and fuselage surface are/design, it produced enough lift to keep it in the air!!
No doubt a few sherbs in the BOQ after!
Melchett01
31st Jan 2006, 21:42
Damn right it's real!
Occurred during a dis-similar air combat trg sortie (dogfighting with another type jet if yu want to boil it down to absolute basics) with an A-4 Skyhawk somewhere over Israel. Can't remember what happened to the Skyhawk, think he may (probably?) decided he had had enough excitement for one day and parted company with his jet.
If what I have heard is correct, the f-15 recovered to base with fuel, flames and smoke chuffing out of the right wing. As such, neither crew were aware that they were missing said wing! On landing, and immediately after shutdown, the Nav had a shuffty at the damage and had great difficulty in persuading his pilot that they had landed minus wing.
Boeing, on hearing about this were chuffed to bits - after all, what an advert for a combat ac; if it can survive a mid-air collision and make it home safely, what are it's chances of surviving a combat sortie. Cue Boeing share price through the roof and lots of enquiries about buying F-15.
The crux of it, as discovered by the Boeing engineers, was that the F-15 was so wide thanks to those huge intakes and engines, that if you kept up enough speed the airframe performed like a rocket / missile. You wouldn't have a huge amount of directional control, but go fast enough in a straight line and the thing would still generate enough lift to fly.
Onan the Clumsy
31st Jan 2006, 21:46
Not so fast...
If the pictures were numbered:
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
look at 3 and 5. It's a different wing that's missing :8 Good try but it didn't fool me :=
Rossian
31st Jan 2006, 21:50
ONAN
Surely it's the starboard wing in each piccy - one coming towards the other going away from the camera????
BossEyed
31st Jan 2006, 21:51
Look again, Onan.
Melchett01
31st Jan 2006, 21:59
Onan old boy,
You've been fooled.:\
Onan the Clumsy
31st Jan 2006, 22:25
*sigh*
That was so easy, I don't even know why I bothered
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/onan_the_clumsy/ThatsSomeGoodFishing.jpg
:E
TEEEJ
31st Jan 2006, 23:12
Zivi Nedivi was the pilot of the Eagle.
The story I heard was the IDFAF phoned McDonnel Douglas as was, and asked
"Can an F-15 fly without a wing"
McD Man "God no don't be stupid"
So they sent them some photos.
TEEEJ
31st Jan 2006, 23:50
is this real??
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/110099.jpg
Some of those images are not real. The second, third and fourth images on the left are mocked up images. The History Channel did a reconstruction of events with the pilot recounting the tale. They even mocked up a shot from the pilots perspective with fuel streaming from the torn off wing. If you look closely at these images that I mentioned you will see the discrepancies of the fuel tanks between the various shots. The film editors simply used stock footage for the flying shots and altered them to fit in with the pilots narrative.
Oz_in_oz
1st Feb 2006, 00:00
Yep - this type of thing has happened a couple of times. Once in Israel, and the other was a Japanese F-15 (can't remember exact dates, but about 15 years ago). Could be why there are different piccys!
Yep - this type of thing has happened a couple of times. Once in Israel, and the other was a Japanese F-15 (can't remember exact dates, but about 15 years ago). Could be why there are different piccys!
No. When you see the reconstruction footage on the History Channel it is clear that they have manipulated the images. They did their best, but you can clearly see where they edited out the wing on the video and added the streaming fuel.
PPRuNeUser0211
1st Feb 2006, 05:06
yep, infact the arrangement has neatly divided them! The ones down the left all look photoshopped to me (aside from the pair obviously!)...
Onan.... Lambs to the slaughter!;)
Ali Barber
1st Feb 2006, 05:51
Anyone got any pics of the F-14s that landed back on the carrier with assymetric wing sweep i.e. one forward and one back. Heard that it happened to aircraft from 2 different sqns on the same cruise and both were required to land on or eject as they were out of range of a land base. One was a relatively minor assymetry but the other was almost fully mis-matched.
Farmer 1
1st Feb 2006, 05:55
So that's what they mean by "A wing and a prayer."
IIRC, it was a two seater - Captain instructor and Lt Col on refresher training. Captain ordered ejection, Lt Col declined and landed it. Got demoted for disobeying instructor - and then promoted for saving aircraft.
Washington_Irving
1st Feb 2006, 07:51
[spotter hat]You're right- it was a twin-tub. You can tell by the canopy.[/spotter hat]
One question springs to mind though- did they not have a playmate (apart from the A-4 obviously) who could give them a once-over?
Ewan Whosearmy
1st Feb 2006, 11:59
The event is real and the pictures of the jet on the ground are real, but the footage of the jet in the air is doctored. If you look closely, you'll see the footage is actually an F-15E.
This is the text of an e-mail I received a few months ago about this incident:
This is a story about an Israeli F-15 that lost its wing - and still
managed to stay airborne!...
"On may 1st. 1983, a simulated dogfight training took place between two
F-15D's and four A-4N Skyhawks over the skies of the Negev. The F-15D
(# 957, nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim', 5 killmarks) was used for the
conversion of a new pilot in the squadron. Here is the description of the event as described in "Pressure suit": At some point I collided with one of the Skyhawks, at first I didn't realize it. I felt a big strike, and I thought we passed through the jet stream of one of the other aircraft. Before I could react, I saw the big fire ball created by the explosion of the Skyhawk. The radio started to deliver calls saying that the Skyhawk pilot has ejected, and I understood that the fire ball was the skyhawk, that exploded, and the pilot was ejected automatically.
There was a tremendous fuel stream going out of the wing, and I understood it was badly damaged. The aircraft flew without control in a strange spiral. I
re-connected the electric control to the control surfaces, and slowly gained control on the aircraft until I was straight and level again. It was clear to me that I had to eject. When I gained control I said : "Hey, wait, don't eject yet!" No warning light was on and the navigation computer worked as usual; I just needed a warning light in my panel to indicate that I missed a wing..." The instructor ordered me to eject. The wing is a fuel tank, and the fuel indicator showed 0.000 so I assumed that the jet stream sucked all the fuel out of the other tanks. However, I remembered that the valves operate only in one direction, so that I might have enough fuel to get to the nearest airfield and land.
I worked like a machine, wasn't scared and didn't worry. All I knew was: as
long as the sucker flies, I'm gonna stay inside. I started to decrease the airspeed, but at that point one wing was not enough. So I went into a spin down and to the right. A second before I decided to eject, I pushed the throttle and lit the afterburner. I gained speed and thus got control of the aircraft again. Next thing I did was lowering the arresting hook. A few seconds later I touched the runway at 260 knots, about twice the recommended speed, and called the tower to erect the emergency recovery net. The hook was torn away from the fuselage because of the high speed, but I managed to stop 10 meters before the net.
I turned back to shake the hand of my instructor, who urged me to eject, and
then I saw it for the first time - no wing!!!
The IAF (Israeli Air Force) contacted McDonnel Douglas and asked for information about possibility to land an F-15 with one wing . MD replied that this is aerodynamically impossible, as confirmed by computer simulations...
Then they received the photo....
After two months the same F-15 got a new wing and returned to action.
McDonnel Douglas attributes the saving of this aircraft to the amount
of lift generated by the engine intake/body and "a hell of a good pilot".
Possible, I suppose, but I am intrigued by the comparative lack of control input to port, even though the remaining flap (port) is fully down.
Ewan Whosearmy
1st Feb 2006, 15:38
Possible, I suppose, but I am intrigued by the comparative lack of control input to port, even though the remaining flap (port) is fully down.
Pretty sure the F-15s flaps drop/droop on power-down, and that auto flaps wouldn't have dropped them at the speed he touched-down at (although I'd need to look it up to be sure). I doubt he landed with it in this position.
VigilantPilot
1st Feb 2006, 16:18
Huh? The F-15 airborne pictures are not real - they were produced by digitally removing the wing from a two winged F-15E so that the History channel could make a documentary out of the story.
Ewan Whosearmy
1st Feb 2006, 16:49
Huh? The F-15 airborne pictures are not real - they were produced by digitally removing the wing from a two winged F-15E so that the History channel could make a documentary out of the story.
Which is precisely what I said three posts ago.
West Coast
1st Feb 2006, 18:38
I wonder if the one wing model is cheaper to buy than the two winged one? All those air forces that have been longing for the Eagle may be able to pick up a few now.
No doubt the British Defence Budget will only be able to afford the wing, the one without any engines..
Ewan Whosearmy
1st Feb 2006, 18:43
No doubt the British Defence Budget will only be able to afford the wing, the one without any engines..
I don't think they make those, but there's always the F-16, which rumour has it spends a lot of time flying without the engine running.
4Foxtrot
1st Feb 2006, 19:26
And no gun. Or maybe just a block of concrete and the pilot shouting "RATATATATATATAT!".
flash13
1st Feb 2006, 20:25
I'd heard the pilot got bollocked and demoted for having the mid air and then decorated and promoted two ranks for saving the aircraft.
VigilantPilot
1st Feb 2006, 20:38
Ewan - I saw it was said a few posts ago, but it appears Zoom is making his comment based on one of the doctored pics.
Flash - did ORAC tell you that? :ok:
+'ve ROC
2nd Feb 2006, 17:39
pic 5 is a work of (photoshop) art.
where is the elevator?
Onan the Clumsy
2nd Feb 2006, 18:47
Just to show there is nothing new under the sun...
http://www.geocities.com/asymmetrics/bv141ph/24.jpg
http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/bv141/bv141_6.jpg
Noah Zark.
2nd Feb 2006, 21:48
Ah, the dear old Blohm und Voss.....
Onan the Clumsy
2nd Feb 2006, 22:20
The site had pics of another version with the cabin at the wingtip - and one with two cabins also :confused: (not sure if they're for real though)
...might as well post 'em I suppose
http://www.geocities.com/asymmetrics/bv141tip1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/asymmetrics/bv141tip2.jpg
I just finished talking to Hans H. Amtman (94 and living in California) over the phone about the Bv 141 with the wingtip nacelle. He said he had no more documents concerning that plane but could remember seeing it on the tarmac. The 141 in question had a second nacelle at the other wingtip but without flight controls. It was flown only to test how it would feel like to sit at the wingtip. Such an arrangement was duplicated at Wright Field after the war when a wingtip nacelle (also without controls) was mounted to the right hand wing-tip of a B-17. Mr. Amtmann sat in that nacelle on one occasion and said it felt no different than sitting conventionally in the middle of the plane.
...sorry, annorak coming off now
Noah Zark.
2nd Feb 2006, 22:26
I'll bet they were a pig to land in a cross-wind. Imagine trying to judge the right moment to kick the drift off when you're so far removed from the centreline?
galaxy flyer
2nd Feb 2006, 22:39
I believe several months ago (maybe longer, memory being what it is these days) Flying magazine (US) had a column by Peter Garrison called Technicalities that was devoted to how this plane flew. I don't remember much of it, but McAir had analyzed how it was done. The discussion was about the lifting moment of the one wing and how the tail could oppose it with the F15's flight control system. Further, how much fuselage lift would be generated based on the speeds flown during recovery.
Some days you are NOT the bug on the windscreen!!
GF
treadigraph
2nd Feb 2006, 22:49
Onan, I prefer your tongue in cheek persona - interesting pics though, you got any of Jenny Agutter in Equus? Er... or however it was spelled?
PS, how about Rutan's assymetrical oddity?
ehwatezedoing
3rd Feb 2006, 00:27
Actually couple of years ago, a CF-18 came back in Cold Lake with a totally missing elevator.
Pilot went a bit too low during his bomb run, hit some debrits (and felt it) but otherwise the aircraft flew pretty well.
TruBlu351
3rd Feb 2006, 04:43
Here's another cool bit of action! Bloody close one....time to buy a lottery ticket ;)
http://www.strangedangers.com/images/content/4401.jpg
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/4402.jpg
Onan the Clumsy
3rd Feb 2006, 12:27
Wow it must have been a bad landing to do THAT much damage to the front of the aircraft
TruBlu351
21st May 2006, 06:54
Wow it must have been a bad landing to do THAT much damage to the front of the aircraft
They're 2 different Hornets.
Anyone got a photo of ZE210?
There's a picture knocking about of an F4 taking off from a US carrier with its wing s folded.
Safeware
21st May 2006, 09:01
ORAC:
http://homepages.enterprise.net/corkish/images/scrap/ZE210small.jpg
or
http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/f3s/25sq/ze210.htm
but probably not what you mean.
An incredible recovery to Leuchars of a well broken jet.
sw
Several F-8s took off with wings folded and then recovered safely, the ailerons being inboard of the fold. One pilot pushing zero gee and unfolding and locking them down before landing.
DaNang:http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg
DIVESAILFLY
21st May 2006, 14:11
During the South African Bush war a DC3 got it's rudder blown away by SA7 missile. Crew also managed to get it back with assymetric thrust etc. Maybe one of the old "Bosvarke" has a photo to post?
Pureteenlard
21st May 2006, 17:04
During the South African Bush war a DC3 got it's rudder blown away by SA7 missile. Crew also managed to get it back with assymetric thrust etc. Maybe one of the old "Bosvarke" has a photo to post?
To me the most remarkable thing about that story is that an SA-7 managed to lock onto piston engined bird like a DC-3