FI course

[ramshorn]

Hi all!
Am doing IR and MCC starting in a couple of weeks.
Was hoping that i may be able to bypass doing instructing after, but as a result of research into low hour FO job oppurtunitys i've finally given in and accepted that i am just going to go for the FI rating after finishing MCC.
Apart from that i think i'll enjoy it anyway!
Can anyone recommend me a good FTO that does the FI rating, preferably near Bristol or Cambridge!?:ok:

[BEagle]

".....but as a result of research into low hour FO job oppurtunitys i've finally given in and accepted that i am just going to go for the FI rating after finishing MCC."

Hardly the sort of motivation one would wish to see in a Flight Instructor. Precisely what do you think you will have to offer to your students?

[STORMER]

I did my FI rating at Flightpass in Exeter, which is drivable from bristol. Excellent instructors and a extremely well run school. Probably worth paying them a visit to see for yourself.

[Send Clowns]

Have you tried to find a job? They are out there. I know so many people who have got jobs in the last year or so, some instructors but plenty not. As BEagle implies (rather strongly!) getting hours is not a good reason for instructing. That has been a good result of my instructing experience (to any company with any sense 500 extra hours P1 with a lot of elements of multi-crew is a big bonus) but I always wanted to instruct as a part time job, and hope I always will do so!

[ali1]

Mate,

You're doing an FI for all the wrong reasons. You have to give part of yourself to be an instructor. I did it because I wanted the experience. I enjoy teaching. If you have this attitude, your wasting your time and your students. Imagine if you turned up for your PPL and you had a guy who just moaned about wanting an airline job!!! 'And I'm paying 130 quid an hour for this?' is what he/she will think. They will no if your hearts not in it. If A320 is what you want don't waste peoples time and money just because you think you have to.

Ali1

[Wannabe24]

Beagle you have an amazing attitude. Whilst, no doubt the experienced pilot makes the better FI what do you expect low hours f(ATPL)s to do? How else are they going to build their hours to the rediculous amount required by some airlines? Pay for them? :hmm: I put it to you that if Airline wannabe's chose not to become FI's there would be a serious shortage of FI's out there. We do the industry a great favour, not many people would consider paying 10k for the FI course (with Multi/IR ratings) if it didn't bring other advantages.

[BEagle]

Those with the right attitude, such as Send Clowns clearly was, will of course be entirely welcomed into the world of instructing.

Those using flight instruction purely as an hour-building path will not, as ali 1 has explained very clearly.

For the future, it is likely that PPL instructing will change significantly. Thus it is anticipated that a pilot could obtain a PPL, then gain experience. After that, if his/her pre-course selection is satisfactory, he/she could gain a FI rating and teach to the same level as the licence held - for remuneration. That is what will help the flying training industry most - experienced PPL holders teaching at club level and being allowed to receive remuneration for doing so. As was once the case for PPL/FIs in the UK. Later comes the time for the CPL, IR, MEP Class Rating etc.....for those who want to go into the commercial air transport world.

It is purely because so many wannabes are taking up flight instruction for the wrong reasons to build hours that the airlines can get away with demanding the hours they currently do from job applicants. If fATPL graduates stood their ground and stopped using FI work as an airline springboard, the airlines would have no option but to recruit straight from the FTOs - as some are aleady doing.

Airline beancounters stopped 'cadet' training years ago; as a result they now find themselves rejecting unsuitable candidates who have bought their way to the recruiting session. If the airlines want suitable pilots, they should run their own training programmes. Unfortunately this won't happen, because the increased costs wouldn't be acceptable to the beancounters in an era of lo-co cut and thrust seat prices.

The advent of the MPL will be interesting. Some airlines wanted 100% synthetic training, some nations refuse to have anything to do with it. Some airlines are now beginning to realise that they will probably have to pay for MPL training themselves - and it will probably cost more in the end than sponsoring cadets through an FTO used to cost them....

[ramshorn]

I appreciate what you say about this, but i was just saying that i had hoped through my 3 years of training that i would be able to go straight into an Airline multi crew environment straight out of training as this is the type of flying that i enjoy most, as i like working as part of a flight crew team and i also enjoy most, flying IFR.
All i was saying was that this is my preference as i'm sure that alot of fATPL'S would agree with me on.
I also know plenty of FI's myself who would PREFER to have gone to an Airline/corporate out of training but have become very good instructors, who very much enjoy the challenge of instructing.
Ali1,'mate',whoever said i would moan to any students of mine that i didn't want to be sitting here with them because i wanted to be working for an airline.Speak for yourself mate!
If i do something i will put 100% effort into it,and if you look carefully at the end of my post i did make a point of saying that,'i would enjoy it'.
:ok: ;)

[expedite08]

I Couldn't agree more with the comments above!

I am currently training for my PPL and the number of instructors that I have seen come and go is astonishing! Guys come in to FTO's with no interest in instructing whatsoever. I have seen it and been on the recieving end of it! Its very de-motivating for the student and most of all makes the FTO look really uninterested in helping those who genuinely want to suceed in this type of career!

Personally I think the problem is that many people, especially the younger ones come straight out of training and expect to gain a left hand seat position almost instantly. It's as though they think the airlines and companies actually owe it too them!

This is when reality hits. They come out from the fluffy training environment and especially some of those from some of the bigger brand names have been given the rosey picture and all the marketing tosh about getting a job straight away! They dont get a job straight away and so nine times out of ten an instructors rating has to be gained, for many, reluctantly, and it is seen as another pain in the backside, another rating to get in order to get where they want! These are the people who ruin it for everyones else and make the intructing side of the industry look unprofessional.

As we all know the aviation industry we are in does not work like this, well for the odd lucky few maybe, but generally the way in is to gain lots of experience and most of all ENJOY IT! At the end of the day thats why we all fly isnt it??? :}

[dboy]

This is so typical!! You finish your Fatpl and what's next?? I remember some friends adviced me to do the FI course. I simply refuse following their advice because i don't see myself as an instructor. I think you should do this when you really believe in this. You have to love teaching and repeating 1000 times the same thing. You also need to have the skill to explain something difficult in a easy way. If you don't love this, well, better save your money then. And i really can imagine that it is not motivating for ppl students to have an instructor who is only doing this just for building hours.

grtz

[ramshorn]

Hi DBoy
What did you do after finishing your training?Did you need to build hours, and if so how did you do it?How long did you do it for?Are you now doing the job you aspired to do when you started your training?

[Dude~]

Expedite08 ...and most of all makes the FTO look really uninterested in helping those who genuinely want to suceed in this type of career!


I guess you are talking about the PPL students but don't forget that actually the FTOs who take on FIs who are open about their airline aspirations are in fact helping people to suceed in their career. It does take some balance though to get it right.

Just because someone wants to build their experience doesn't mean they will make a bad teacher. I know plenty of FIs who are actively and openly looking for airline jobs, but still take the time to put 110% effort into their instructing. By being honest they can also give their employer time to find a suitable replacement rather than leave them in the lurch with 2 days notice.

Beagles comments are far too generalised. As long as an FI is motivated to teach, does it really matter what is motivating him?

[ATP_Al]

Ramshorn,

There are plenty of ways to build hours after your training without doing an FI course, most of which don't involve spending money. The best thing is that most wannabes don't know about or bother to look at these opportunities!

Before I did my fATPL I was a tug pilot for a local gliding club. After my training I continued to tow at weekends. This experience then helped me get a parachute dropping job on a Islander, which in turn led to an IFR air taxi job on a Seneca. After a year of fun and challenging GA flying I now have 820hrs tt, 330hrs multi engine and will be starting an airline job next monday. All without spending ANY extra money on training!

Other alternatives include aerial photography, traffic reporting, safety pilot work - it's all out there if you know where to look. Getting your face known at an airfield is much easier (and more fun) than getting your credit card out again!

Al

P.S. I'm not trying to say that doing an FI course is a bad thing. In fact I really did want to do it, for all the right reasons, but could not afford to borrow any more money. Once I've settled into my new job I'll be doing an FI course so I can instruct on my days off!

[dboy]

hoi Rams,

Well i'm graduated about 11 months ago. During 2005 i flew about 4 hours IFR per month. And to be honest, i don't think companies will look to that. I'm still looking you know. But now, i'm flying less than last year and saving every penny hoping a company asks me to pay my own rating.

grtz

[Funny Magnet]

Dave Coulson at Cranfield Aero club is the master of all instruction if you really want to learn about flying. Worth the trip.