Info on Offshore work in Australia / New Zealand?

[CopterD]

Hi,

Can anyone shed some light on the offshore work in Australia/New Zealand.

Who are the operators?
Where are they based?
Is it possible to get work with Northsea experience?

Presently I'm a co-pilot flying offshore work above the Northsea. I am interested in a change of scenery in the next couple of years...

Any info would be much appreciated!

CopterD

[whopwhop]

Helicopters New Zealand are pretty much about it, they operate 412, 212 and I understand they have or are purchasing AB139.

[Ned-Air2Air]

The AB139 that HNZ have on order has been delayed because they dont have a contract for it from what I heard.

Also yes they are the only operator in NZ that is currently doing offshore.

In OZ, as far as I know there is Bristows, CHC, Esso, Jayrow and a couple of single pilot VFR machines in Western Australia.

Others here based in OZ might be able to elaborate further.

Cheers

Ned

[CopterD]

Thanks,

keep 'em coming! Thanks for the info. Does anybody know more about Australia?


CopterD

[Semi Rigid]

Yes.
It is a big red continent in the southern hemisphere.
It is full of Australians and the national flag consists of the union jack & the sothern cross...............

I could go on.

[birdman]

Priceless!!!! :rolleyes:

[gadgetguru]

It's full of Australians...
& bloody kiwi's! :hmm:

[CopterD]

:D well at least they have a sense of humor on the other side of the globe!

Let me be more specific then, does anybody know more about offshore (helicopter) work in Australia?

- Companies
- Bases
- Aircraft

CopterD

[Steve76]

and bloody Chinks
and bloody Krauts
and bloody Swiss
and bloody poms
and bloody eyeties
and bloody seppos
and bloody japs
and boody frogs
and bloody canuks flying our fires!

and a few other bloody nationalities, so what's your issue Gadget Guru? At least we are brothers in arms.

[MPT]

G'day CopterD,

I'll give it a go for you (as far as Australia goes),

Bristow 5 x S76A+, 5 x AS332L
CHC Australia 5 x AS332L / L1
Esso Australia 6 x S76C
Jayrow 2 x S76A, 2 x BK117

As far as I know, that's about the scene as far as current (IFR) offshore machines go, but CHC use B412 and S76 equipment as contracts require. There is a lot of activity in Bass Strait at present and Bristows will have 3 x AS332L's operating out of Essendon shortly.

There are also A109, BK117 and B222 / B430 operators carrying out IFR marine pilot transfers in Queensland.

Hope that helps,

MPT

[CopterD]

Thanks for your information MPT!

It will help with my search!

CopterD

[BigMike]

Rumour has it that Co-pilot postions at Sale might be coming up again. Seems things are not good for them as regards to progressing to the other seat...

[S92 guru]

Heard a rumour that they're hiring yet more co-pilots.

[gulliBell]

and bloody Chinks
and bloody Krauts
and bloody eyeties
and bloody japs


remind me...didn't we win THE WAR? :rolleyes:

[gulliBell]

Rumour has it that Co-pilot postions at Sale might be coming up again. Seems things are not good for them as regards to progressing to the other seat...

Sale, as in East Sale (CHC), or Sale as in Longford (Esso)?

[S92 guru]

The only offshore operator in the world with a higher turnover of pilots than Nigeria - Welcome to Longford :ugh:

[topendtorque]

remind me...didn't we win THE WAR? :rolleyes:

Lost the last big one we were in, makes no difference, what is the competeing two nationalities at Bankstown?

Yep bloody kiwis - homeless from Bondi and bloody slopes.

[gulliBell]

The only offshore operator in the world with a higher turnover of pilots than Nigeria - Welcome to Longford :ugh:

It was never that way when Snoopy A. and M2 were in charge, oh the good old days are long gone.

[Heliharm]

He CopterD,

getting bored already flying over the North Sea????? Ha ha, nice going and keep exploring the world.

Take a look at www.helikopter.li (http://www.helikopter.li) there might be some info on it for you.

Heliharm.

[Chairmanofthebored]

Those bailing out of Longford should take a look at the larger picture. Where overseas are you going to get a seat offshore flying big hours without 500hrs on twins. Its a great deal in Sale. Inform yourself about what happens in Europe and the US and you might realise those copilot hours are much more appreciated elsewhere. Grab as many as you can and fast track your career.

[Brian Abraham]

Chairman - it is indeed a great opportunity for the young lads/lasses who get the left seat, but unfortunately having a high turnover means that the person occupying that seat brings nothing to the table, as its a steep learning curve which takes time to digest. Those that went through said it took about 9 months to get a grip on it all and the average length of stay was 18 months. Nor did they get to pull night standby as they were not considered experienced enough and nor did the operator wish to invest in the necessary night training so night flying was a two captain crew requirement which opens its own can of worms as those who are up on CRM will know. The operators view unfortunately was/is one of as long as there is a warm piece of meat occupying the seat all is well. It does not make for a professional operation where the PIC is spending all his/her time breaking in a new copilot.

[pjtickn]

G'day Brian, long time. We live in the same town but I never bump into you.

I do agree with you, it would be nice to give everybody who comes through a shot at command, but for us its impractical. As everyone knows, the balance at the Longford heliport was badly upset a few years ago by a management decision to bring in all future pilots through a contractor. This decision has been reversed as has the tide of experienced people leaving. Our contract captains were offered Esso staff positions plus we recruited from the worldwide industry and provided some good hip pocket incentive (its a good time to work for the Oil Company). Even the copilot group is relatively stable. The latest recruitment is due to retirement of a senior captain, not a copilot departure.

The problem remains with what can we do for the copilots. We differ from the other big two (or three with apologies to Jayrow) in that we do not operate all over the countryside, supporting a myriad of contracts (nor do we downsize when the contracts dry up, if I may say). Our workrate is very secure, predictable and steady, some might say relentless. We are a small group of 18 pilots, 12 captain, 6 copilot. If the captains don't go anywhere and we offer career development to all the copilots, then we eventually end up with a crew room full of captains which is unnecessarily expensive and flies in the face of CRM as you point out.

There is an ICUS programme. Currently two are on the programme with one earmarked to begin. The ICUS programme is, however, driven by business and not individual needs. So the status quo remains....we've virtually gone back to the good old days when everything worked so well.

If you make the grade, come and feast on the Exxon Mobil teat in return for a solid days work. If not, come and fly a bucket load of offshore multi engine hours, quick, and use them to get a leg up somewhere else.

regards,

PT

[Brian Abraham]

Hi Pete, Sounds like you spend far too much time playing admirals on the gin palace. :)

[blade root]

I have to agree with PJ and Brian.

Although I will add that the Co-pilots have had a sizeable salary increase since the beginning of last year, which has helped retain people (and put food on the table).

(G'day Brian and Pete)

[Brian Abraham]

Pete, I didnt suggest giving every one who comes through a shot at command. Not all contract captains were offered an Esso position were they? How about this as an idea. You need 18 pilots say. Have 9 crews ie 9 captains and 9 copilots. Every one employed by Esso with copilots pulling in whatever the X% ratio to captain salary that is the industry standard. Copilots developed professionally with the necessary to pull night standby. They then get some extra time off (standby) and they don’t have their ring bits hanging out from a 9 day fortnight and things having to be juggled because they are maxed out on flying or duty hours. Sure there may be turn over as there is in any organisation but I’m inclined to think it may be minimised by the lack of them and us attitude that prevails with having separate employers crewing the aircraft (not unlike the airline problems with the A and B pay scales), copilots get to see them selves as equals in as much they are doing the same work as the captains (night flying) and their salary and status recognises them for the professionals that they are, and not the warm piece of meat. It may be found that under such conditions copilots would be happy to stay copilots until a captains position opens up at what ever time in the future because of the other attractions of the job – rural environment, place to bring up the kids, work routine, conditions of service, home ever night, big employer etc etc Seems to work for big operators. Your last sentence lends itself to a flying school advertisement which is what I said was one of the problems in my previous post regarding the high turn over. Just two bobs worth which is probably overpriced.

Any old ex Esso copilots out there who would give their views – after all you are the only ones qualified to speak having been through the system. Blade root, skidsr4kids?

Any move yet on getting weather reporting systems offshore as required by OIMS?

[gulliBell]

Point 1: Virtually all co-pilots have career aspirations of progressing to command.

Point 2: BA would agree that virtually all of the former co-pilots at Esso (read: co-pilots at Esso, and not Esso co-pilots) did not meet the Exxon experience requirements for pilot-in-command. Therefore they could never progress to command within the Esso environment.

Point 3: Any co-pilots at Esso who do have the necessary Exxon experience for pilot-in-command could probably get a job anywhere else. There leads the question, why would you want to be a co-pilot for years and years, waiting for an Esso Captain to retire, and hope to be offered an upgrade with the vacancy? As many of us know, Esso Captains are like Berger paint, they just keep on going on!

So here's my offering. Esso hire's it's own Captains. A contractor provides a supply of relatively low experience co-pilots. These co-pilots would be happy to stay as co-pilots for a few years, afterall they're getting paid well and they're getting experience. Esso can run its flying school as it's been doing for the past 15 years, investing a bit of training effort in return for continuity of service from a loyal contractor co-pilot group.

When their time is up the co-pilot can move on elsewhere and build on his experience base. Many/most former co-pilots at Esso have moved on to multi-engine command jobs, thanks mostly to the experience they gained at Esso. All-the-while, Esso has had a reliable co-pilot in the left hand seat who can get the ship home safely should the pilot keel over at the controls. Ultimately, that's the main reason why they are there.

[Brian Abraham]

1. As with any pilot any where
2. None of the "old" captains met with Exxons twin PIC criteria. Jeech, we must have been super men. Reread the post as to why they might stay. As with any major operator. One wonders how the airlines manage to progress their copilots to command, or are helicopters some how different?
3. As with any major operator

Esso has had a reliable co-pilot in the left hand seat who can get the ship home safely should the pilot keel over at the controls. Ultimately, that's the main reason why they are there.

True. But it takes a while before they reach the stage where that is possible and with high turn over a great proportion of time that is questionable. Remember while Cat D they start off not being permitted to fly offshore landings/approaches. Cat A takes how long? Remember sitting on Snapper and being told the direction home was north. The next minute you are going to tell me its a VFR operation.

[Dixons Cider]

remind me...didn't we win THE WAR?

Nope - the yanks won it for you!!

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

The yanks won it for us??

Well i guess with their recent form youd have to look back 60 years to find something they won.

[Brian Abraham]

You would say that DD having vested interests. The standards that did apply were at rock bottom and there was only one direction that they could possibly change. Any change was not brought about by the initative of management though. :ok:

[maxspeed]

Out of curiosity can some one tell me what a co pilot could expect to make flying in Australia for one of the larger companys. And how much of the flying you get to do or are you there to "fill the seat and talk on the radio"

Cheers MS

[maxspeed]

Come on don't be shy.

[gulliBell]

... is worth a smige over $70k for a first officer.

I'm to understand Bristow co-pilots are on quite a bit more than $70k.

[kwikenz]

No... quite right, FO on just under $70K including everything, daily travel etc. SFO significantly more (in the order of 20-35K more) then Capt 7-10K on top of SFO. Vastly oversimplified there but thats the broad strokes.

EBA in the works though... who knows where from there.
:ok:

[topendtorque]

Maxspeed,
loss of licence insurance


anyone ever seen this work, have heard not worth the paper they are printed on, and costly.

[Mongrel Dog]

TET,
It costs about $1600 a year, which is of little relevance as the company pays it. A friend of mine was off for nearly 12 months after an accident and had his wages covered.
Additionally if you haven't needed it by the time you retire you are refunded your premiums payed over the years as it is a mutual fund and not an insurance company

[S92 guru]

What are the going rates for the guys at CHC - co-pilot, captain, touring allowances, etc??

Thanks

[Steve76]

70K!
When I was copilot the family was fed on $35K a year and that is still the going rate in Canada for a new pilot. I think if you are considering an IFR endorsement and thinking you are going onto $70K at the end of it, you will be surprised.
People working for Bristows are a different kettle of fish. They already have hours on the type (lots and lots) and are there without command aspirations for 5yrs or more.
CHC Int will not look at you without 500hrs on type and offshore time depending on what part of the planet you are having to work in.
I could be wrong regarding the 70K but the CHC info is reliable to the best of my knowledge.

I thought ESSO was excellent and after 2 weeks I had no (personal) concerns about getting the machine back home again. After all, its just a helicopter and works exactly the same as the rest of them. Show some aptitude and you are not a 'D' copilot for long - and for the most, a lot of the guys there didn't follow/stress/listen/worry too much about the A,B,C system. You will always have plenty of turnover in Sale and not only because the work is tedious - Sale is just not for everyone. Partners and wives have lives too and there are a lot of jobs that require a city and facilities Sale cannot supply. Nice place to raise a kid but be assured your kid will be leaving Sale and not returning.

[pohm1]

Steve76,

Not sure if I'm reading your post right, but none of the new Bristow Co's hired recently have had any twin, never mind on type.(Casuals are the exception)

CHC Australia have recently been taking guys in the same situation. There just aren't enough AS332L/S76 endorsed pilots hanging around looking for work.

Mongrel Dog

You may be in for a shock when you retire. You only get the AFAP membership fees back, not the loss of licence premium. Hope you haven't spent it already!

P1

[Steve76]

OK, I could be wrong regarding Bristows, its been a while. Thanks for that.
I thought CHC Aussie and International were two different animals?

[pohm1]

My understanding is that CHC Australia is owned by, but run seperately from CHC Int, but I stand to be corrected. Getting the minimums required by CHC Int is now possible with CHC Australia, as CHC Aus. have no twin requirement, despite what they say in their adverts.

Confused yet :confused:

And like everyone in offshore at the moment, they both have more vacancies than they can fill. Good news for 1000hr drivers with Irex and offshore ambitions.

[Steve76]

I don't know if anyone has 'offshore ambitions'
It's simply the only alternative to having to live in a tent or somewhere else less pleasant and for some an opportunity to live at home. A lot see it as a way into a bigger helicopter because they will never do that through the VFR system.
Why you would want to settle down (other than reasons above...) at only 1000hrs is another question. The flying is 99.9% tedious but on occaisions interesting from a technical point of view and you are not going to learn anything new after the first 200 - 500hrs or develop your command initiative.

Its just the same day repeated over and over again for the rest of your life.
Groundhog Day!
I can hear skidsr4kids laughing from here. :ok:

[pohm1]

What is routine to one may be tedious to another. It is the option of choice for a better than decent salary, set roster and excellent time off, but spend a lot of time away from home (which of course isn't unique to offshore.) It appealed to me for the reasons Steve76 states, bigger machinery with more toys on board plus the lifestyle to boot:ok:

I disagree slightly with your view that you don't learn after 500hrs, there are constant challenges with learning the technical side of aircraft performance and IFR skills need regular refreshment. As for developing your command potential, I think a lot of that comes down to the co pilot showing keen to be tested and the captain being willing to run scenarios. There is plenty of time on the long offshore legs to dry run emergencies (hands off of course) in a 'what would you do if.....' Some crews can sit back fat, dumb and happy for six months, then sweat it out on an OPC, others who are more pro active in learning will have an easier time.

As for repeating the same day for the rest of your life, isn't that most flying jobs, another day logging, another day of car wrecks, another ciruit around a breaking news story, another student, another sling load, another low level rocket run into Lebanon etc?

Its not for everyone though.

[Brian Abraham]

As for developing your command potential, I think a lot of that comes down to the co pilot showing keen to be tested and the captain being willing to run scenarios. There is plenty of time on the long offshore legs to dry run emergencies (hands off of course) in a 'what would you do if..

Just prior to leaving Esso it was decreed by the head C&T that crews were not to discuss aircraft systems, procedures etc among themselves as misinformation was being bandied about. :oh: After 10 years they still never managed to ammend and get the correct Cat A details in the ops manual. :hmm:

As for repeating the same day for the rest of your life, isn't that most flying jobs, another day logging, another day of car wrecks, another ciruit around a breaking news story, another student, another sling load, another low level rocket run into Lebanon etc?

Never a truer word was said. The grass is always greener and we do love the challenge of learning a new skill. Spent 27 years in the one job doing the same thing and never found it boring but its different strokes for different folks.