UN Puma crash - Sudan

[Cyclic Hotline]

UN helicopter crashes in Darfur, one reportedly dead
Jan 25, 2006, 17:17 GMT

Khartoum - A United Nations Puma helicopter carrying 16 people crashed in the Jebel Marra area in central Darfur in Sudan after experiencing a technical failure upon landing, a UN spokeswoman said from Khartoum Wednesday.

'The eight passengers were NGO (non-governmental organization) workers who were being evacuated out of the region when the accident occurred,' the spokeswoman told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

A source working for the Irish humanitarian aid organization GOAL said that the helicopter crash killed one passenger and left 10 others in a critical condition.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the helicopter was carrying as many as 35 passengers.

Recent fighting by the Sudanese Liberation Army (SLA) rebel movement had prompted the evacuation of all humanitarian workers, reports indicated.

Another UN helicopter was reportedly on its way to the small hamlet of Dyalla, where the accident took place, to assist in the rescue effort.

No official statement has yet been released to confirm the nature and number of possible casualties.

Unconfirmed reports said those on board were mostly the Sudanese staff of unnamed NGOs and that the helicopter made a forced landing after experiencing problems with its rotor.

[international hog driver]

Grapevine email tonight tells that it was an ex-BGS 330J operated by Helog (CH) on D reg.
As for the rest of it no other info.:hmm:

[SiClick]

There are 5 D reg Puma's in Sudan, and 2 South African aircraft, all working for the UN, under Helog's contract.
No news yet on which one it was, my thoughts are with all those involved.
SiClick

[SiClick]

This is the rumour, unconfirmed and obviously subject to embellishment.

D-HAXI, with a French crew, crashed coming out of Daya, There were reportedly 16 pax, and a crew of 3. Daya is about a 45 minute flight to the nearest fuel, and with Daya being around 6000 ft and normally around ISA plus 30 degrees, the aircraft was obviously working hard.

The aircraft apparently "ran out of power (Eng fail?)"

There was some kind of post crash fire and the aircraft will not fly again.

No word on the condition of the casualties

As I said unconfirmed, and probably totally lacking in fact, but this is a rumour network!

[Sealauncher]

As I said unconfirmed, and probably totally lacking in fact, but this is a rumour network!


What???

You should`t spread any rumours in here. Nobody should this!
First rakes not if people have come to damage or even were killed.
The decency of one's own should already forbid this!

So stop talking here about engine failures, roter problems or an overloaded helicopter and please wait for an official statement from "Helog-Austria".
Thanks for that!

Effected Helicopter is a Puma "D-HAXM" (ex BGS-Germany) wich belongs to "HELOG-AT" Austria and thats the only thing wich is confirmed yet.

Rest will follow...

[Sealauncher]

If u wanne know any details about the crash of this helicopter at Sudan click here (http://www.unmis.org/english/hotnews.htm)

Please notice:

This is a UNO-Statement! Not the official statement of "Helog-Heliswiss"!

[Quichotte]

You should`t spread any rumours in here. Nobody should this!
First rakes not if people have come to damage or even were killed.
The decency of one's own should already forbid this!


Sorry, this a "Rumours Network"! A rumours network of professional pilots and we can discuss what ever we want, following the rules of this forum.


By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.


So stop talking here about engine failures, roter problems or an overloaded helicopter and please wait for an official statement from "Helog-Heliswiss/Switzerland" wich will be released soon.

If we want to wait and to trust in official statements we have to close the forum.

I see on your profile you are the "lead mechanic of HELOG". I understand you are linked to the ship and the crew. Feel free to discuss with us, but don't try to stop our talks. All the postings up to this point touching the accident are good to me.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MCD625261.htm

As you can find in the link "U.N. sources said the helicopter crash landed because it had rotor problems."

[mini]

Grapevine says that the pax that died was trapped inside and perished in the fire.

:sad:

[tecpilot]

The ship is totally outburned. Such a wreckage, in this godforsaken country! I bet we will never hear the real circumstances of this accident. Overloaded, technical problems or bullets...

[airspeed alive]

"Sea launcher", methinks the fellow doth protest too much!
It will be interesting to see whether the German LBA will now get off it's lederhosen "derriere" and venture outside the Fatherland's borders to audit Helog Austria/Zagel Air's operation in Sudan?
But don't place your bets yet, is that a pig I see flying past my Tryolean "berghaus"? Perhaps the (alleged) umbilical cord between Zagel Airs "esteemed organ" and the German Foreign ministry will yet prevail?, or maybe not?:*

[Spunk]

Reading "airspeed alive" s post raised one question in my mind. Has any of you seen anything about this on (german) TV / news???

[Cheesaburger]

Sealauncher
Helog have still said nothing, its now a long time from the accident. It is clearly no wonder that pilots speculate as to the cause of the accident. Siclick made it very clear that what he had heard was not an official version of events.
It seems from some of the other posts that perhaps we have not speculated enough about Helog's operation in Sudan.

[SASless]

Perhaps Airspeed's Alive has more information about the operation than he lets on.....hopefully he will pass along some more of the juicer bits.

[tecpilot]

The accident ship is an ex German Border Guard Puma helicopter. Sold direct from official use to HELOG in an astonishing short time outside the normal way (without international offer by tender). As an ex Border Guard ship the a/c is equipped with NVG cockpit and with FLIR. Interesting to me, is the kind of operation. The ship is german registered but couldn't be operated in this manner under german and JAA law. Anyway, HELOG was searching for pilots with "NVG experience".

http://www.rotor-rescue.net/pdf/rrj02_05_1.pdf

Found this last year job offer:

Entreprise :
Helog Lufttransport KG
Poste :
8 Captains on Puma SA330 - United Nations peacekeeping mission in Sudan
Lieu :
Sudan
Salaire :

Descriptif :
Captains on Puma SA330


JAR-licence and IR required
NVG and winching experience a plus
2500 total flight hours
1000 on helicopter type
French national ATPL also accepted
UN peacekeeping mission in Sudan


on/off schedule, 2 yrs. contract with option for extension

Type of Position: Contractor (free lance)
Starting Date: immediately
Overnight Travel: More Than 75%

Preferred Method of Contact: E-mail

Contact:

Mrs Michaela Wehrle
Helog Lufttransport KG
Kröbenfeldstrasse 12d
5020 Salzburg
Austria

Please apply before August 8, 2005 by email with cover letters and resumes:

[email protected]

Site web :
www.helog.de

[international hog driver]

Absolutely nothing here on TV, ARD & ZDF usually good with foreign stuff…. Nothing, RTL/Proseiben sensational news….. nothing, N24 same!
Everybody here is too busy wondering if they feds got taken for a ride when paying Suzanne Osthoff’s ransom!
Also interesting how they got their hands on the 330’s, they are very well looked after and I know several people who wanted to get their hands on them when the ex CHC 332’s were ready.:hmm: :hmm:

[greenthumb]

This is the preliminary german AAIB report:

Narrative: Short after take-off the helicopter tumbled and plummeted into a building. The helicopter was immediately consumed by fire.

Type designator: AS 330J

State of registry: Germany

Mass group: 5701-27 000kg

Operation type: Passenger

Injuries:
Pilot: 1 serious
Passengers: 1 fatal

Flight phase: Take-off

All other fields in this report are unfilled.

[Bravo73]

The prooner, westym (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=104774), might be able to give us more gen on this accident.

According to this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=186998&highlight=):

(I know cos I'm one of them-I fly SAR Puma's in Sudan)


westym - any further info for us? :ok:

[212man]

.... or ambidextrous?

[airspeed alive]

Ambidextrous has retired from the fray (sighs of relief all round!), bloodied but unbowed he hands the cudgels of truth with responsibility to Airspeed Alive!
For more info on this accident I suspect you need to tempt SiClick back to the forum as he was your main man last year but he's probably too busy punching the buttons on the FMC of his new toy at FL390!;)

[Sealauncher]

I see on your profile you are the "lead mechanic of HELOG". I understand you are linked to the ship and the crew. Feel free to discuss with us, but don't try to stop our talks. All the postings up to this point touching the accident are good to me.


Hi Quichotte


Correction:

I`m the lead-mechanic of the Kamov-team of "Helog-Heliswiss".
Not the lead-mechanic of the Puma-fleet of "Helog"!



For all:

I will not involve myself in it this kind of discusions.
It is starting allways like a big hunt and it ends mostly in a unfair and disrespectful way for all involved people, the crew self or the involved companys.
I`ve seen and experienced that live mutible times! :yuk:

Doesnt matter if it is a "Puma" crash of "Helog", a lost external load by a "Lama" from "Knaus" at Austria or a any other crashed A/C somewhere else worlwide.
Allways (!!!) some self-appointed "Aviation Experts", found somewhere at a glider-airfield, have placed statements at the press, at the TV or at the Internet wich are superficial, autocratic and unprofesional without giving the crew self a posibility to place there own statement.
And why all that?? Because just the story counts and just that is saleable!! ...and nothing else!
Fu** all the facts, the conditions or the statements from the crew self.
A great story is so much better then the real circumstances.

All crashed crews and passengers will fight for a long time with all the things wich were happend and the crash self. Some of them i know by myself and they will never again enter a helicopter or aicraft for there life time.
The last they need at this situation as another group of self-appointed experts, sitting at home at there nice little flats busy by analysing an accident wich were happend tausends of miles away at a country they never even have seen before just by reading statements at the internet.

None of u has talked to the involved crew since that!
None of u has seen or talked to one of the passengers wich were involved!
None of u has seen any pictures of the crash result!

But i did and none of them can realy say what really happend or what has corsed this accident. That is also the reason for the outstanding statement from Helog. So keep writing here that the good relationships between some person at Austria-helicopter-aviation-buisness and the "German-lederhosen-LBA" will prevent any fair investigations!

...and feel free to keep playing the "experts" :yuk:

I just hope and i wish for all of you that the day will never come, when someone of u guys after a crash gets being part of a hunt like this.
...it was a short membership for me here at this "forum"
(...or however u wanne called this...) :ouch:

U calling yourself a group of profes. pilots, doing that aviation stuff daily???
Some of u realy transportating daily pax or cargo from A to B?
So i`m verry glad and happy that my team is so much differnet like u`re!
Quite honest...

-END-
...of statement and membership...

[Bitmonx]

Hey sealauncher, now calm down.......
Some of us are experts. If you get so upset by having people talking about an accident, then I feel sorry for you. If you are a professionel then you will just ignore the ones that you think are full of it. This is after all a forum where everybody can have his/her opinion. Some of the statements on pprune are definately out of order but I say it again, there are a lot of professional pilots discussing topics of all sorts of things. You are treating everybody here as if we are all reporters. ANY accident involving helicopters affects us all. It is in our nature to wanna find out asap what could have happend or better, what happend.....
Don't forget, the helicopter world is a very small one. There is a good chance that a ppruner has facts about something that may have happend.

[Thomas coupling]

Bitmonx: Sealauncher has left the building:ooh:

[greenthumb]

Rotorheads A haven for professional helicopter pilots to discuss the things that affect them.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Quake-hit Pakistan relies on chopper trips

By HANS GREIMEL
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

NEHAR BALA, Pakistan -- Threading through an icy-white canyon, the wind-battered helicopter banks left and suddenly plummets to a snow-draped toehold to deliver more aid to survivors of South Asia's killer earthquake.

Choppers are a lifeline for villagers cut off by snow and landslides in the Himalayan mountains of northern Pakistan. But the U.N.'s biggest humanitarian airlift is also its riskiest, and three aircraft deployed in the relief effort have crashed in the last four months.

Last week, authorities abandoned the search for a helicopter chartered by the International Committee of the Red Cross that disappeared with seven aboard on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. The crew had just finished three months of relief flights for victims of the Oct. 8 quake.

"It's the most difficult conditions I've ever experienced," said Nozdrin Sergiy, a Ukrainian pilot with 33 years under his belt.

He flies with the United Nations, which under the auspices of the World Food Program coordinates 26 aircraft for as many as 200 flights a day - 11,000 in all so far. Thousands more missions have been flown by six choppers from the ICRC, seven from Pakistan's army and 12 from the U.S. military.

The flights are more important than ever for isolated mountain villages, helping to keep the quake's death toll of 87,000 from growing during the harsh winter.

Although the helicopters have been periodically grounded by the weather, the U.N. flights alone have so far moved 11,000 tons of food, 3,000 tons of other supplies and nearly 22,000 people, including aid workers and quake victims needing hospitalization.

"It's the biggest, most complex air operation on the humanitarian side of the U.N. in its history," said Einar Schjolberg, head of the U.N. Humanitarian Air Service, which directs flights from a bustling air-traffic control center in Islamabad.

Given its grand scope - more than 20,000 chopper flights so far by all relief agencies - mishaps have been remarkably few, aid workers say. Two of the three aircraft that went down were actually flying to and from Pakistan.

"It's really impressive, looking at the number of helicopters flying over the area," said ICRC spokeswoman Layla Berlemont Shtewi, whose organization has flown nearly 5,000 sorties.

Chartered by the ICRC, the Russian-built Mi-8 helicopter lost last week vanished in the mountains along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border on its way home to Turkmenistan.

In October, four people were killed when a U.N. helicopter heading for the quake zone crashed in Azerbaijan. In the same month, a Pakistan army helicopter went down in Kashmir in bad weather, killing all six on board.

Other dangers abound. Moody weather and the unforgiving landscape are the biggest wild cards. The choppers are delivering to elevations of 10,000 feet, but a sudden storm can box them into Kashmir's narrow canyons with little warning.

"The worst was just down this valley," chopper worker Nisar Malik recalled of the terraced cliffs that hem in the hamlet of Nehar Bala and its 3,000 villagers.

"A huge storm front was racing through," he said. "The snow started hitting us as we took off, and we had to dive into the valley with this big thing just chasing us."

The Mi-8 and all other choppers contracted by the WFP must be equipped with emergency homing beacons, two global position systems, weather radar and 24-hour supplies of food and water in case they go down.

Because of destroyed or blocked roads, helicopter airlifts will be needed through the end of the year and into 2007, Schjolberg said. Flights will keep moving 300 tons of supplies a day through June and will then be scaled back by two-thirds.

But that all depends on cash flow.

Chartering an Mi-8 costs the WFP $4,500 a day, while fueling the entire fleet for a week sets the United Nations back $536,000 on top of that. The helicopters burn 211,000 gallons every seven days.

U.N. officials are hustling for donors because helicopter operations are about $15.4 million short of funding needed to keep missions flying through the end of March. The United Nations estimates it will need about $80 million for the rest of 2006.

"It's a very costly operation, but it has really paid off," Schjolberg said.

[Cheesaburger]

From a nice flat beside a glider airfield
A colleage with the UN says the Sudanese CAA has ruled out mechanical failure as a cause of the accident.
The real question here is will they focus on the pilots actions, or the training he recieved, and the SOP's (or lack of SOP's) to which he was working.

[SiClick]

SeaLauncher
I too have friends working the operation in Sudan, and I have information that I would not post on this forum, but a basic idea of what has happenned is in everyone's interest. After all, we all learn from each other's mistakes, and a reminder of how dangerous is our proffesion, can hurt no-one.
My thoughts remain with the Helog team, both in Sudan and in Salzburg.

[hotzenplotz]

Me thinks it's just a rumor that here are much professional pilots around. :}

[airspeed alive]

This is the preliminary german AAIB report:
Narrative: Short after take-off the helicopter tumbled and plummeted into a building. The helicopter was immediately consumed by fire.[QUOTE]
posted on 29th.January.
[QUOTE]=cheesaburger on 31st January.'The Sudanese CAA have already ruled out mechanical failure as a cause of the accident'
Pardon me-only 7 days have elapsed since the accident which occurred on Wednesday 25th.January. Lufthansa do not have a daily schedule to Khartoum & I doubt that the Sudanese CAA got out of bed to travel to Jebel Marra on Thursday when Thursday/Friday is the Moslem weekend. These reports must be treated with caution. The UK AAIB would take weeks to re-assemble a wreck on the hangar floor at Farnborough before reaching a conclusion as to the causes.The UN have a known track record for brushing accidents to their contract fleet under the carpet, the Sudanese landscape being littered with crashed/wrecked Antonovs, not all belonging to the UN fleet though. This accident is a great pity-Helog were brought in as I understood it for it's adherence to European safety standards, the opposite seems to have occurred. (vorsprung durch technik seems to have lost a wheel between Ingolstadt & Salzburg!) For those on site it will be very easy for UNMIS to restrict access to the outside world although there's always the mobile phone network,when it's switched on. I fear that it will take a concerted effort to unearth details of this accident but intrepid PPRUNERS could try the following avenues:Contact Mr.Patrick Goudou, Executive Director of EASA(European Safety Agency) which has a remit to oversee all relevant european safety agencies for compliance with EU/ICAO regs both within & without european borders.He can be contacted by 'e' mail: [email protected] or alternatively www.easa.eu.int/home
Alternatively the German BFU(Bundestelle fur(umlaut over u) Flugunfalluntersuchung) on www.bfu-wed.de (german equivalent of the UK AAIB)
If you're still reading this, 10/10 for stamina & lastly it could be worth an 'e'mail to the Editor of the 'Salzburg Times' at www.salzburg.qv.and asking whether he intends to publish details of this accident locally, when or if, they are published by the BFU?:rolleyes:
Yours ever, airspeed alive

[xavier95]

I told them they would have accident. I glad only 1 killed

[Hedski]

Je pense le méme chose, Xav!:(
Like was said before, Airspeed, the licensing issues would eventually rear their ugly heads. JAR OPS in Africa.....?

[Blue Rotor Ronin]

Good riddance zen... As pointed out it's a RUMOUR NETWORK! Your clearly upset, don't vent your anger on people trying to make head or tail of a tragedy if you're clearly in the know, let them know. Or are you nervous wingeneer?:E

[Nubian]

I can see from the profiles, there are a few SA-330J ratings listed among the posting gents. As it is NOT the most common type to have on the license, unless you are ex. british or french military. Just wondering how many of you have been involved in THAT operation??

[airspeed alive]

Never mind xavier 95, at least you left the operation with an equal number of take-offs & landings!
Oryx on the African thread appears to know more, perhaps he could be invited to contribute to this thread.
It would be good if somebody in the know could update the forum on the casualties condition?:)

[Hedski]

I think we already know who Oryx is Airspeed............

[airspeed alive]

UN grounds all Pumas in Sudan pending results of investigation.
Perhaps Helog-Austria/Compass Holdings of Switzerland will now recognize the validity of the age-old truism "if you think flight safety is expensive, try having an accident!"
I hope the gentlemen in charge of these organisations will see that the family of the poor unfortunate victim will be generously compensated for the loss of their loved one.
yours aye, airspeed alive:sad:

[Quichotte]

Check this
"How the pilots are prepared for action in Sudan"

http://http://www.compass-holding.ch/magazine/compass_nr_9_6.pdf

[heli_michel]

If you fly slingloads every day or flying in a mission like in the sudan means always flying with a small amount of unknown risk...thats what our job is...everyone of us commercial ones know that things like that can happen also to each one of you every day....so dont judge here about things you dont know....was anyone of you in that helicopter that day???...are all of you so much informed about the operation and the details of what happend??...or do have some of you just a probleme that maybe you dont get the job or some of you can not sit in a cockpit down there ???...how ever...i feel with the victim and also with the crew of that helicopter because it seems to me that nowone of you knows what will follow for these people...i thought we are a "family" in our business which is still special and small...and especially the ones who live with the same passion and fascination every day would stand more togheter....but it looks very diffrent here....i am not shure if i would like to be in the same cockpit with some guys in that forum...maybe if you leave the helicopter you find yourself having "a knife" in your back....
....and just to finish with the words: think about that one day you will find yourself beside a crashsite, responsible for your aircraft...what would you think if people start "a hunt" against you and your company??? i am shure you will love it....

[Hedski]

Long time since I've read such tripe: RAF sim????????????????????? Night flying?
heli_michel, you can be assured that many people feel the gentlemen in charge are the ones with the knives!!!!!
Companies seem to take the opinion that we are a "family" when it is convenient for them to do so, and employees must follow this line, but the same companies do not afford their subordinates the same courtesy.
Less than impressed,:hmm:
H