Have the wheels come off at Ford Air?

[lord Montford]

Forget Ryanair cancelling flights due lack of crew, whats going on at Fordair? Their aircraft havent turned a wheel since the weekend and Titan seem to be operating some of the schedules. I even noticed a german registered aircraft operating their Istanbul flight this week.
Is the end for one of the best jobs in the business?

[Rainboe]

Well it's a Ford, ain't it?

[loco motion]

There seems to be an awful lot of shiney hardware sitting in the Ford hangar 24/7 at the moment. Is this a result of Monday's cutback announcements? Seems pretty quick action if it is, not really what you would associate with Ford Air, I heard it took them 38 years to decided on a move from PG Tips to Typhoo.

[tilewood]

Lord Montford

In answer to your question.

I think you may find it is! Ford are desperate to save money, this could
be one option.

[bacardi walla]

......or maybe the Boeings are on scheduled maintenance :confused:

[TUGNBAR]

Still No Ford aircraft operating today! Can't believe they would have both of their aircraft down for maintenance at the same time $$

[Fried_Chicken]

Aren't the B737s leased from SAS Braathens so could be returned to the lessor fairly quickly depending on much it'll cost to terminate the contract?

Fried Chicken

[bacardi walla]

Fob602 31jan Ops On Xla B738
Fob601 31jan Ops On Awc B733
Fob616 31jan Ops On Awc B733

[LGW Vulture]

Aren't the B737s leased from SAS Braathens so could be returned to the lessor fairly quickly depending on much it'll cost to terminate the contract?
Fried Chicken

My info is that these a/c were not taken up by SAS and in fact are leased direct from the Leasing Co.

[Monde]

Could be wrong here but i've heard there's a problem with the pilots and them flying the Ford a/c on a VP-B reg - this is second hand info mind you....

[VIKING9]

.....and how long have they been flying on VP-B registered a/c :confused: Were they not validated when the a/c arrived or did that get missed :confused:

[rockbound]

exactly Vikiing. They've only been VP-B reg'd for over 10 years (MD80's, BBJs, 700's). I don't think that's got anything to do with it.

[farmer jo]

It's got nothimg to do with VP-B, I was told it was more to do with Ford
world wide reducing its staffing by 20%+ worldwide, and that Pilots had called in sick with "Stress" due to the uncertainty about their jobs ?

[VIKING9]

Without sound too harsh towards Ford pilots, but they've had it too good for too long. Maybe some of them will have to join "real aviation" and work for a living, i.e. multi sector days, maximum flying hours etc.

Maybe Ford have finally woken up to the fact that flying their staff around in 2 737's isn't excatly cost efficient !

I suspect XL will be around for a while longer. Wet lease is cheaper while Ford try to sort out there next move.

Again, apologies for sounding too up front and harsh but it's an operation that just cannot pay for itself. Maybe if Ford offered out the a/c at weekends and bank holidays, they'd get some money in rather than just sending it out........but, I suspect they don't hold an AOC :eek:

[Kolibear]

Maybe Ford have finally woken up to the fact that flying their staff around in 2 737's isn't excatly cost efficient !

Actually, it is.

A face to face meeting around a vehicle can resolve many more problems than can be done by net-meeting or video conferencing. Travelling to Turkey commerical is a major problem and thats just getting the tickets signed off!

As an aside - any truth in the rumour that Fordair are moving back to Southend???

[His dudeness]

quote Viking9:
Without sound too harsh towards Ford pilots, but they've had it too good for too long. Maybe some of them will have to join "real aviation" and work for a living, i.e. multi sector days, maximum flying hours etc.

--------------------------------------------------------

And nobody stopped them from beeing sooo selfish for all these years !!!

All the best for everybody with DECENT T&C, may they be at Ford or elsewhere !

[bacardi walla]

Actually, it is.
A face to face meeting around a vehicle can resolve many more problems than can be done by net-meeting or video conferencing. Travelling to Turkey commerical is a major problem and thats just getting the tickets signed off!

Yes I agree. So why are Ford having problems flying their Boeings then :confused: Have they had any audits lately, maybe something has been bought to light by the feds and they ain't happy with it :suspect:

[Kolibear]

bw - Haven't a clue, thats not my side of the business. But all aspects of the business are being closely scrutinised to cut any costs possible and I can see no reason why Fordair is exempt.

[Thrush]

Excel are doing the work on the 73-800s. Ford seem more than happy with the way things are going. (ie it must be cost-effective as beancounters rule the roost).

[silverhawk]

Does that mean the guy who reckoned he was the uk's only civilian harrier pilot is out of a job then? Maybe he could go back to being Deputy Chief Training Captain or whatever it was he fabricated.

[B737NewGen]

Hi all, first post and somewhat down hearted that it has to be on adepressing note. As an ex Ford pilot I'm sorry to see what could now be the end.:ugh:

The history and job at Fordair is one that is a classic example of grass is greener on the otherside but really isn't. Firstly it needs to be said that a majority of the pilots (of which I think there are now under 9) are generally good blokes and are trying to do the right thing so no discredit to them.:ok:

Some clarification first. A job with Ford Air means that you do have the opportunity of one, if not two company cars. :) However you do not get them free, instead you must 'rent' them at a rate, which in todays market is not that competetive. :( Yes you get 2 weeks off at Xmas, plus normally 2 weeks off during the year - the same time as plant shutdowns and cleaning. Its true that you get the weekends off.. normally. You are on standby once every 6-8weeks or so, but once in a blue moon will you be called. At this juncture the good points stop.

If you are happy to fly to CGN and back then its great, but can be somewhat boring. Occasionally you might break the week up with a IST but thats maybe once every couple of weeks. However thats about it.... there are other flights but they are on the HS125: G-JETI, in which I think is fair to say, the most unreliable a/c Fordair own! Role the dice....:bored:

Fordairs 737-700s are leased, however they are leased from a company based in Bermuda which is owned by Ford International and is where all Ford a/c are run through, with the exception of JETI. The connection with
the european carrier earlier on in the postings come as they have the contract for all major schedulled maintenance, which is normally undertaken during one of the 2 week shutdowns. Its never a cycle or hour based timing as the a/c are hardly utilised to their potential/max.

The question about money or lack of it could definatly be a possibilty. Fordair was almost shutdown nearly 2years ago due to the required over priced budget that was needed to keep it running. A posting made earlier about cost effectivness is a fair one but it has been found to be suitably viable for the numbers commuting to CGN. However, and this could be a key point, it could be even more viable if run properly.

For example the companys fuel policy. This is something that has been a bone of contention for a while now. CGN rtn, plus company reserves & APU + a bit extra for good measure would be around 8,000Kgs. So why take more, why take 10T or on some occasions 15T!! Why run the flights on Cost Index 200 when a lower number like 35 would be more practical?

Can someone tell me if its normal for the chief pilot (CP) not to be rated on ANY of the a/c that the company flies? Is it normal that the CP takes regular 3 months breaks when his dept is struggling and near the chop? Is it normal for the CP to recruit pilots who are not type rated, pay type rating costs and relocation costs, when the market place has experienced 737NG crews, then to loose them to other carriers?

These are just some of the examples that have been seen at Fordair and if it is to survive (and I say this as I do not know if the final nail has been hit yet) and if it is to do what Ford need the dept to do, it needs to be more commercial. The old Fordair saying "well we've always done it this way" is no longer helping, I would say its killing things. A reshuffle is needed at the top and reporting to the HR director needs to change to the CEO.

Like I said earlier there are guys there who have been doing their best to try and make changes, small ones that they may be, to make things better. I just hope they get the chance to make the changes that are desperatly needed and soon.

[bacardi walla]

Can someone tell me if its normal for the chief pilot (CP) not to be rated on ANY of the a/c that the company flies? I'd say that's a big NO !

Too many old timers in Ford, never changing with the times, keeping a pace with new policies etc. They're own downfall by the looks of it. If it can be recovered, and I say if, then maybe they will survive. From what I know of the Ford operation, it's high time they got new blood, revamped the business plan, maybe even get a UK AOC so as to carry out charters in their spare time.

I don't wish to be the prophet of doom, but I suspect it's too late.

[The BFG]

Hey New Gen, I don’t remember you turning up at Ford with a type rating!

I think the issue of recruiting pilots from afar (Flight International) was to stem the flow of ‘mates’ from the flying club.

Some of your other points are indeed valid though.

Good luck!

Big Friendly.

[Thrush]

New Gen

It all seems a bit far fetched. Do they really have 2 weeks off at Xmas and all those benefits? Is there a permanent queue of 737 guys at the door.....?

I suspect someone has noticed that there is a money-gobbler around and started asking quetions!

I have heard the pilots are on stike, but why? All seems too good to be true, but you know the old saying, "If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is". They should just hang on to it while they can and make the most of it before they have to come into the real world.

[Kolibear]

Do they really have 2 weeks off at Xmas and all those benefits

Actually, its 12 days off at Xmas but 5 of them come out of annual vacation. Lease Cars - you pays your money, you takes your choice. Do you want to drive a Ka or a Jag?

[bacardi walla]

So I guess the 737's are still tucked up in the STN hangar :confused: and I assume the crews are all on full pay whilst not flying :eek: Sub-chartering Titan ain't cheap, XL, well, cheaper assuming a long term deal has been struck. All in all, Ford are still paying heavy dollar and their own a/c aren't in the air :eek:

[TUGNBAR]

So how long til the crews will need retraining. Its been a while since they were up in the air. (Even more costs)

[Air Force Colonel]

Good day gentleman

I have friends (or did have) who work for Ford flight at this moment or shall I say not working, ''LOL''

This wheel not rolling was due to the incompetence of the flight deck crew, going on strike, because they are stressed, ''stressed of what'' doing 200 hours a year and getting paid more then a normal pilots. Wake up Ford air pilots, come join us in the real world of aviations.

''Come and discover the real world, you wosses''

[farmer jo]

Well what a surprise AFC !! I posted on 1st Feb the fact pilots were not flying due to "stress" as to the uncertain future of there jobs - okay I didn't mention strike !!? It was while I was doing my medical that I learnt this from el Doc !! Back in the 80's I knew pilot who report sick with mental stress and never got his medical back - be very carefull Ford Pilots ?!!
Why do these pilots think they are immune to Fords world wide reduction of 20% in the work force?? when you work in this enviroment the chop is always possible, bite the bulllet and move on !!
RyanAir are looking for pilots and there is good bus service from local area !!
ATP

[B737NewGen]

From my understanding the future for the pilots will be announced either the end of this week or beiginning of next. If closure is final then some are looking at healthy payouts.

This is fine in somecases but I don't feel any payout should be made to certain personel who's resposibility it was to run Fordair. Also those, who know who they are, who aided in the mismanagement should also be forced to take the bad news with the punishment of no payout. As mentioned earlier by other contributions, the longest serving and the CP should be held accoutable for the serious lack of commercialism that they showed, which resulted in this unfortunate result. :mad:

I know for a fact that those people had no real interest in changing things 'as it has been done this way for blah blah years' as they can now expect a payout and will simply return to Andrews Field to fly singles!

Like before its a pity but a few ruined it for the many.

BFG - Just to clarify I did join Fordair with a type rating and somes years experience.:D

[bacardi walla]

Curtains and the pulling together of.........

Sad if it happens, but, as mentioned by myself and others, too many people who have been there too long, stuck in their ways, scared of change and now FMC may have finally seen the light.

There are jobs out there for the good ones.

I guess Inflite will be looking for a new resident for the hangar soon (if they haven't already started looking) :confused:

[lord Montford]

Well what a load of ill-informed speculation there is on this thread!
Pilots on strike, pilots refusing to fly due to stress. Complete and utter tosh!
As i am led to believe the truth is far less exciting! The chaps have simply been stood down by Ford management pending possible out-sourcing of some or all of the operation. Probably a very sensible and (knowing Ford management) almost certainly a lengthy and convoluted procedure!

[26point2]

Well thanks Lord Montford, thats the first sensible thing thats been said on this thread so far.and just about spot on!!!
As for Air Force Colonel, where do you get off? slagging off people you hav'nt even met.. people of your own profession too, that is, if you are a pilot in which case i suspect you're one of those people who when spotted on someone elses roster, they go.. OH GOD NO!! or do you just slag eveyone off like other religions and the oposite sex? Nice!.
For your information Ford have a great bunch of professional air crew, as with most companies they often go the extra mile to get the job done.
Yes, maybe only 400 hours a year but often 2 hours flying in a 12 hour day, thats the nature of a corporate airline, most would rather be flying than sitting on the groung waiting to go home.
Ford are a great company to work for and generally look after their employees.
Whats happening right now, i cant talk about but no'one is on strike and no'one is refusing to fly or off with stress and thats official.

26.2

[rockbound]

Well said 26.2!

AFC, your venturing of such a strong opinion based on your obvious lack of knowledge and hearsay only confirms what kind of person you are, not one I'd like to be sitting next to at the marker. I expect that the Ford pilots are extremely professional and it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush based on hearsay. I'd be interested to know how you establish a relationship between the number of flying hours and the level of stress with such limited knowledge of the operation.

[Robert Vesco]

Perhaps Privatair will fly for Ford in the future...? :cool:

[BillieBob]

Don't feed the trolls!

Notice how many posts AFC has made, note the illiterate style and then do a search for 'ronchonner', 'A320 driver' and many others. You may then find that the words 'waste' and 'space' spring to mind.

[fokkerjet]

Strangely quiet over here, any positive results:confused:

[bacardi walla]

02MAR06
Both 737's are out of the hangar, not going anywhere though it seems.
The HS125 has been pushed out of the hangar, a few people milling over it, then pushed back in.
And so ends today's bulletin..... :p

[StressFree]

Bacardi,
Have you got nothing better to do than watch the Ford hangar?

:}

[bacardi walla]

at the time of my last post, I was having my lunch. Observing the goings on that's all...... no news as yet from within the hangar then as suggested by B737NewGen last week :bored:

[carousel]

Latest from the rumour factory, Ford to move their operation at Stansted to Southend. Flights reduced to one per day to CGN. One weekly flight to SAW. Stansted personnel offered redundency or transfers. Aircraft to be returned to Ford international G-JETI allready gone/sold. Heard this from bloke in pub so must be true!!

[bacardi walla]

G-JETI is still at STN.

As for SEN, it's not a rumour but what on earth will operate the SAW flight? We all know 4 hair dryers won't make it in one go !!

[Kolibear]

But can a 146 make Koln-SAW in one go?

Flying SEN-Koln, quick stop for some 4-star, then Koln-SAW might be viable in that case. But it might be a little slow and just how high can a 146 get?

[smallpilot]

My local Paper in Southend claims its a done deal that Ford are moving to EGMC with a spokesman saying the move will take place in 'April or May.' Apparently the flights are to be operated on a Fordair flight number but by a chartered airline, no mention who though. Could it be Flightline?

[bacardi walla]

Sad to say, it's true and allegedly FLT will be doing their runs to/from CGN. Think it's just one a day though.

[picobello]

yep! It is confirmed. FLT take over and will operate the CGN route with 146.

kolibear : 146 max FL310. But usually stop climb at FL270.(non RVSM) In icing conditions you have to fly at FL260 max.

Hope it help.

Fly high!

Pico

[TUGNBAR]

Heard that the Engineers/Ground staff will finish at the end of April:uhoh:

[spanishflea]

Whats up with Ford Air now? There seem to be 737-700s on all routes now, although I have no immediate way of telling if these are actualy the Ford machines or not it would appear so?

[shed loads]

Spanishflea.

I'm led to believe Fordair was already history by the time of your post.

My info. was all crews redundant from 30 April.

Maybe Titan or similar?

[spanishflea]

Ahh OK it seems back to normal today with 146s and MDs on the routes.

[old-timer]

Hey - don't knock the FMC chaps - they did well to get a good job & they definately earn their £ & it Certainly beats working in the Lo-Co slave trade for sure !
- I knew a couple of their chaps & both top guys - definately not
'stuck in a rut' types.
The 1-11 & G1 days sounded the most fun.


EGMC seems a good choice if they extend the active - an MD went in there
a few years back - anyone remember it ?

Have fun whatever & remember - always retain a sense of humour - it helps
zillions !