Question about RAF Swanton Morley

[Beeayeate]

I have an e-mail from a bloke who recalls seeing a Canberra T.17 in the hanagr at Swanton Morley around 1975-1980. He was in the local ATC at that time and they regularly used the hangar for some purpose or other (drill maybe?). He reports that it sat there for quite some time (months) and was never moved.

I thought Swanton was a grass airfield, seem to recall it being that the couple or so times I paxed there in one of Wyton's Chipmunks in the early 70s. Although I think a Canberra could just get into Swanton with those big main wheels and, maybe, on a scorching hot summer's day and hard ground, it seems improbable. Especially as T.17s were the exclusive property of 360 Sqn and they were operational at the time.

Query - Does anyone please know about this mystery Canberra at Swanton? Anything?

I hope the wealth of knowledge on this forum can unearth an aswer.

Thanks.

:ok:

[PPRuNe Pop]

I was there in August of last year after just passing close enough to be nosey! It is a grass airfield and not much happens there it seemed at the time. The two hangars had a lot of stuff stored in them and most of it belonged to film companies (props) I guess.

No areoplanes of ANY description were visible from what I saw. But it is a huge place and maybe there is another hangar - who knows.

PPP

[PaperTiger]

Query - Does anyone please know about this mystery Canberra at Swanton? Anything? B.6 WJ775 was resident in the late-80s and is now at Bodney Camp. I can't imagine there being more than 1 and although not a T.17 WJ775 was one of the ECM models so could easily be confused with one.
http://www.bywat.co.uk/gall01.html

[Pom Pax]

Pop,
There used to be a 3rd hangar outside the northern perimeter and was used by the gliding school. It would not be readily visible from the area between the main two hangars as it is in dead ground about 50ft lower.
In fact looking at multi map is still there nowdays with its own strip. (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=600000&Y=319500&[/URL]http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=600000&Y=319500&width=500&height=300&gride=601829.97636035&gridn=317141.45459277&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&pc=&zm=1&scale=25000)

[McFunkletrumpet]

Swanton is closed to GA. Now the home of Robertson Barracks. All you'll see there are TANKS. I doubt that the hangars have any civilian use.
It is a shame that it closed to GA as before the runway was defined in the
1990's by Jim Avis of Eastern Stearman fame it was one of the few grass airfields where you could land in any direction and always be into wind.
I went to the closing down ceremony and the highlight of that day was the fantastic "wire up" carried out by Tornadoes from Marham. Once seen---never forgotten.

[Tim Inder]

Used to be the largest grass airfield in Europe (so I was told!) Even though the Army have moved in, there's still a strip on the far side of the airfield - and it certainly WAS open a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure that there was amongst others a Strearman hangared there (maybe even the same one as was there in 1990-ish in the Gliding school hangar when I was a mere sprog on a BGT course!)

edited for sepllnig :)

[Mandator]

The ex-51 Sqn Canberra was used by the NDT Squadron as a training aid - the Canberra seemed to illustrate most of metalurgical failure modes likely to be found in a military aicraft.
Today the grunts have demolished the T2 and the J-Type hangars and replaced them with modern, large and presumably insulated buildings to house their tanks. This has done nothing for the environment in which the newly-listed 'Villa-Type' control tower finds itself.
There is a remaining T2 Hangar on the Worthing-village side of the airfield which is outside the old perimeter track and in private ownership. This is where Jim Avis et al operated from and where there was a small grass strip used by the aircraft after the Army arrived and banned aircraft from the airfield, which they made into a tank testing ground. All civil flying activity has now ceased and I understand that the strip may have been ploughed up.

[Beeayeate]

Thanks to all who replied. Never fails this forum, the knowledge here is awesome.

Certainly seems like ex-51 Sqn's WJ775 is the mystery Canberra. Must admit I didn't think it could be a T.17. Strangely, I know WJ775, used to work on it when I was on 51 Sqn centuries ago. Also, it gives you a funny feeling when someone - PaperTiger - quotes your own web site back at you. Thanks for that PT. ;)

I'll inform the bloke that 51 Sqn's beast is the best possible fit.

Unless anyone else knows different.

Again, thanks all.

:ok:

[chevvron]

Swanton wasn't the biggest grass airfield, I think you'll find that honour goes to Middle Wallop.
As to landing a Canberra there; if the surface was underlaid with steel mesh as were other grass airfields like Halton, there should be no problems. No less than three Vulcans were landed at Halton in the 60's; I believe they may also have landed an Argosy there too.

[henry crun]

Underlaid with steel mesh or not I do not believe there would be any problem landing a Canberra there in the summer at normal landing weight when the ground would be reasonably hard.
The aircraft had large tyres with fairly low pressure by modern standards.

I have a recollection of the Canberras at Coningsby occasionally using the grass on the north side of the main runway.
Some years later at another airfield I used to watch a T-bird doing rollers and landing on a grass strip about 4500ft long.

[PaperTiger]

Also, it gives you a funny feeling when someone - PaperTiger - quotes your own web site back at you. Thanks for that PT. ;)
Can't take the credit, I'm afraid. That goes to Mr. Google :)

[ATC1249]

For any interested in the airfield itself here's a web link http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/s29.html
The field was used by Bostons, Mitchells and Mosquitos during WW2.

Having spent a number of evenings in close proximity to the grass on night exercises with the ATC and RAF police I don't recall that it was underlain with PSP matting or mesh but although well drained, some areas were liable to waterlogging after rain and light aircraft were advised to keep well clear! Neither was it billiard table flat having a pronounced brow which made landings from the NW "interesting" (even in Venture T1) as the CT and hangers suddendly appeared FROM "nowhere"!
Thanks to Beeayeate (alias bywat) for starting this thread on WJ775 and for other PRUNERS for their recollections - curiosity satisfied!
Now, lets GOOGLE Bodney.........

[PPRuNe Pop]

Well, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

The The largest grass airfield is on Google as White Waltham on the one hand and Middle Wallop on the other.

My money is on WW. I have flown at both and I reckon WW gets my vote.

PPP

[chevvron]

WW may have been at one time, but a lot of land was returned to farmland about 10 years ago.

[Tim Inder]

I don't recal there being any mesh under the grass either, although I was last there 10 years ago and wasn't looking for any!

I do recall an area on the N? side of the field where the grass wouldn't gorw properly and was told that it was contaminated ground from a Mosquito crash, but 50-odd years of 'Chinese Whispers' may have a bearing on the veracity of that one - no doubt aircraft DID crash, but several other crash sites have returned to normal in a lot less time.

[Guern]

Swanton wasn't the biggest grass airfield, I think you'll find that honour goes to Middle Wallop.
As to landing a Canberra there; if the surface was underlaid with steel mesh as were other grass airfields like Halton, there should be no problems. No less than three Vulcans were landed at Halton in the 70's; I believe they may also have landed an Argosy there too.

Hi

Most certainly was an Argosy there when I was there 85 or 86 can't remember exactly. Don't know if they flew it in.

Also had some gnats that they used for training but I guess they came in by road.

Cheers

Guern

[chevvron]

Yes the Argosy was at Halton up until they wound down No 1 S.O.T.T., as were the Gnats and a load of JP's. The two latter types must have been trucked in; the JP's were sometimes taxied across the grass, but the Gnats were mostly used to teach the apprenti and trainee FLM's about ground running, and used the paved surfaces only, including the road from the main pan to the engine running bay near where the old control tower was.

[Guern]

Yep the Gnats were definatley used for ground runs at Halton. Used to give us something to watch while waiting our go at the VGS in the Ventures.

Some nice chap landed his Harvard one day and let us climb all over it.

What happened to the Argosy, Gnats etc?

[chevvron]

Not sure about the Argosy, but Gnats and JP's were sold off; they were there in '93, but there were frequently people there in about '94 or '95 dismantling them when I was flying with the Ridgerunners. There were also a couple of Harriers parked further down the airfield midway between the old tower and 26 threshold.

[windriver]

As to landing a Canberra there; if the surface was underlaid with steel mesh as were other grass airfields like Halton, there should be no problems. No less than three Vulcans were landed at Halton in the 70's; I believe they may also have landed an Argosy there too.

I seem to recall a Comet as well....

[markcliff4d]

Swanton Morley Airfield was split into 2 sections a few years ago, the Army now occupy the original buildings eg. the houses etc. and is called Robertson Barracks.
The main 09/27 runway was used regulary until a couple of years ago by GA and a Microlight Flying School along with a aircraft repair workshop located in the 1 and only remaining hanger. The army have a grassed area which they often use as a "runway" for I think a Cessna Skytrain for paras.
Several months ago a friend and I were offered the lease to the airfield but becme to expensive and I believe it is now being use to graze sheep by a local person who wants to see the end of flying from Swnton Morley Airfield.
Mark
G-MTNT

[Cornish Jack]

50+ years ago Swanton was the Air Signallers training school - Anson and Prentices. One suspects that the locals would have been quite happy to see their departure - if only not to be subjected to forgotten trailing aerials peppering the inhabitants with fast moving lead weights!!:eek:
'Limpy' Porter, Bedales(sp?) and the 'ogre' Chiefy Osman ... anyone??:{

[PaperTiger]

a Cessna Skytrain for paras.Wassat then ?

[treadigraph]

I think he means a Cessna Skylane... or a Stationwagon! Skytrain is the USAF's DC-9 (C-9A) I think (or part of the late lamented Sir Freddy's excellent and equally lamented train set!).

[Kieron Kirk]

C-9A is the "Nightingale". The "Skytrain" is non-other than the C-47 known to the RAF as the "Dakota".

[treadigraph]

Thanks KK, you're quite right - in the cold sober light of dawn (well, OK, 9:30am) my brain is working rather better!

Edited to say: Ah but, the C-9B is the Skytrain II used by the US Navy - link here (http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/c9.htm) - I thought my nonsense last night came from somewhere solid. If I recall aright, the US Navy acquired these second hand from airlines. Sorry, thread creep...

[Beeayeate]

Sorry, thread creep...

Not a problem Tredders, original thread query has been answered long ago. So, carry on creeping old chap.

;)

And, seem to recall Swanton had a Javelin Gate Guard in the 70's? Anybody got pix?

.

[PaperTiger]

Ah but, the C-9B is the Skytrain II used by the US Navy - link here (http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/c9.htm) - I thought my nonsense last night came from somewhere solid. If I recall aright, the US Navy acquired these second hand from airlines. Sorry, thread creep...A few were converted from ex-commercial DC-9-32s, but most USN C-9Bs were delivered new from Long Beach. The Navy would probably have preferred more new ones, but the line had been closed.

[chevvron]

Windriver:
More than one Comet if I recall (you're talking mid 60's). One of them ended up without a fin, due to the 'accident' at Bedford where a Trident took the fin off their Comet, so they had the one from the Halton Comet. There was also a Comet at Henlow up 'til about '89 or '90(in the T2 on the east side); grass airfield once again; did they fly that in?

[windriver]

Windriver:
More than one Comet if I recall (you're talking mid 60's).
1971-2 .. with fin I think... Don`t want to hijack the Swanton Morley thread with Halton Airframes. Perhaps a new thread if anyone is interested??

[corporalfrank]

Canberra WJ775 at Swanton Morley

There is a picture of 775 being used to teach X-ray technques by the RAF School of Non Destructive Testing here (http://www.qandt.co.uk/csde.html) An aerial view of Swanton on the same site.

Here (http://www.qandt.co.uk/mwew.html) it is being used as a backdrop for a Wing photo outside the J hangar where it lived.

The black hangar and landing strip to the north of the airfield was used by Eastern Stearman and the Norfolk and Norwich Aero Club for a time. Now returned to agriculture. NNAC wound up in 1997, its aircraft moved to Beccles and became RainAir (http://www.rainair.co.uk), a thriving little club.

If someone starts a thread on Halton airframes I have a picture of the Vulcan landing at Halton in 1962.

Cheers Frank

[nimby]

Swanton wasn't the biggest grass airfield, I think you'll find that honour goes to Middle Wallop.
As to landing a Canberra there; if the surface was underlaid with steel mesh as were other grass airfields like Halton, there should be no problems. No less than three Vulcans were landed at Halton in the 70's; I believe they may also have landed an Argosy there too.
Sorry guys ... wasn't paying attention
Swanton Morley 09/27 650m
Middle Wallop 18/36 1181m
"Judwin" 10/28 1386m
Had all sorts of strange FW Rasperry Ripple stuff in during the early MLS trials.. Not sure how much landed on.
Why a helicopter manufacturer needs such a large runway I don't know...

[NutherA2]

[quote=chevvron]grass airfields like Halton, there should be no problems. No less than three Vulcans were landed at Halton in the 60's; I believe they may also have landed an Argosy there too.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/mpangel.gif
In 1958 or '59 I watched John Cunningham land the Comet at Halton; in the bar afterwards we asked him whether he had had any concerns as to whether the 1200 yards of grass would be enough, he said not, this was to be the time-expired aircraft's last flight anyway, so if need be he would have no worries about retracting the landing gear to stop the landing roll out.

At that time the apprenti were using Meteors & Hunters for the "hands-on" technical training. There was also a very early model Javelin in the hangar; it was probably a prototype, as the navigator's accommodation was metal roofed and had a couple of small portholes. I'm fairly sure the Meteors were flown in, but the other types probably arrived by road.

[JW411]

Biggest Grass Airfield:

I thought we had already decided on an earlier thread that this honour fell to Weston-on-the-Green.

Mind you, if you started at the top of the north airfield at Netheravon and went past the tower to the south end of the south airfield over 7,000 ft is possible!

I was all ready to deliver an Argosy from Benson to Halton one Monday morning. The F/E came back to the crew room with the news that the aircraft was U/S (broken inverter) and that the Chiefie would not release the aircraft until it was fixed.

I spoke to said Chiefie and explained that the aircraft was never going to fly again when it got to Halton and that one inverter was hardly a problem since we had four others and the flight was unlikely to take more than 10 minutes.

He told me that he had strict instructions that the aircraft had to be fully serviceable when it arrived at Halton and that was that. I was looking forward to the experience but it was not to be!

Sorry for the thread creep.

[chevvron]

Re the bit about landing the Comet at Halton and retracting the gear; when they landed one on the grass at Strathallan (also 1200m) in about '73, I think this may have happened (or was it torn off somehow?). In any case the long runway at Halton has a marked dip in the middle which would have aided retardation, certainly the last Vulcan landed just inside the airfield boundary (the wheel marks were there for years!) and had no problem stopping.

[JW411]

I believe the Comet at Strathallan undershot and hit a bank before the grass runway. The bank took one of the main legs off but at least stopping wasn't a problem!

The RAF came and replaced the leg at considerable expense. Such a pity that the old girl was allowed to corrode and rust away.

[markcliff4d]

The last flying of any sort from Swanton Morley was in about 2004 which was a Fixed Wing Microlight School, now relocated to Gt. Massingham Airfield. I think I was probably one of the last to gain my wings from there.
I think it is now used to graze sheep on as a local flying nimby does not want anyone flying/ taking off over his house.

MC

[Vick Van Guard]

I heard a rumour (from a reasonable source) that someone is trying to re-start flying again from the strip in the corner of the field.

[PAXboy]

My father was based at Swanton in 1944 as part of the Bomber Support Defence Unit. If it is of interest, I can post the relevant pages from his book. It would make a lengthy post but is from the horses mouth.

My father was a Radio Operator/Navigator in 141 and with his pilot was transferred to the BSDU for a fair time and operated form there. His book was published in 1999 and he died five years ago, in 2001.

[Phileas Fogg]

Biggest Grass Airfield:
I thought we had already decided on an earlier thread that this honour fell to Weston-on-the-Green.
Mind you, if you started at the top of the north airfield at Netheravon and went past the tower to the south end of the south airfield over 7,000 ft is possible!
I was all ready to deliver an Argosy from Benson to Halton one Monday morning. The F/E came back to the crew room with the news that the aircraft was U/S (broken inverter) and that the Chiefie would not release the aircraft until it was fixed.
I spoke to said Chiefie and explained that the aircraft was never going to fly again when it got to Halton and that one inverter was hardly a problem since we had four others and the flight was unlikely to take more than 10 minutes.
He told me that he had strict instructions that the aircraft had to be fully serviceable when it arrived at Halton and that was that. I was looking forward to the experience but it was not to be!
Sorry for the thread creep.

For some seriously large 'European' unpaved airfields and/or runways try looking here: www.russianairfields.com/doc/russianairfields.pdf

The FSU has unpaved runways longer than the most longest of paved runways in western Europe.

[chevvron]

Swanton is depicted on latest 1/500,000 as an 'in use' airfield.

[ShyTorque]

I went first solo there in summer 1972 in an RAF glider. Can't remember many details but one of the instructors was a Fg Off Silver and the Chief Instructor was Flt Lt Ron Paige. I fly over Swanton occasionaly and it does bring back a few memories. The hedge on the north side, to which I got very adjacent on a subsequent launch, is still there.

[peppermint_jam]

Here's a shot of the tower I recently found in my collection. circa 1992 (ish!)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/robstuff/Morley1.jpg

I remember the closing of the Sgts Mess very well, great night had by all.

[400gra]

The Canberra mentioned in the website was delivered by "long-loader" to RAF Swanton Morley in 1975.
It was acquired so that the trainees at the RAF School of NDT could gain practical experience.
A Canberra was used because at the time it was the type which suffered most from stress corrosion cracking in the centre section forging and various other type of defects.

:8