Training for an FAA Licence and British Passport.

[Scoobster]

Hi,

Firstly my apologies to Scroggs and the other mods if this has already been covered before, but my search yielded nothing so hence this post :}. Also apologies if this is posted in the wrong place!

So some relevant background..well I am a 'newbie' (so to speak) and still battling with the CAA to obtain a Class 1 due to an inferior visual field defect. Having obtained a Restricted FAA Class 1 subject to taking a medical flight test, I am going to fulfil my dream to become a professional pilot (he says 'hopefully'!).

The only problem is that I have a British Passport :confused: Whilst you may be asking yourself so wheres the problem??

I have been pondering over this question for some time and have heard mixed opinion about whether you can fly on an FAA Licence with a British Passport??Due to the battle with the CAA I am looking into the FAA Licence but I have always heard that 'you must be a resident of a particular country to live and work there' so does this mean that I must be a citizen of the USA with a valid 'Greencard' or 'US Passport' to commence my flying training for the ATP and work for a US Carrier?

If anyone could either confirm or alleviate whether this is a misconception or not that would be helpful.

Many thanks!!

--Rite, now where did i put that 65k :D --

[ALV2500]

Scoobster,

You do not have to be a US citizen and don't require a US passport. However, you must have at least resident alien status (green card) which allows you to reside and work in the US.
Hope this helps.

AL

[youngskywalker]

You do NOT have to live in the U.S to get work from an FAA commercial/ATP licence. 'N' reg aircraft are based all over the world and many more carriers that accept that licence.

[Scoobster]

Thanks for your replies, that really helped! My father is an alien resident so heres hoping!
I was familiar with the 'N' reg aircraft rule but was a little bewildered about the ins and outs of the immigration status and wether being the bearer of a British Passport would allow you to command an A330 from New York into Heathrow. But I guess I was ill informed. Forgive my nievity! but having had to put my dream on hold to please my parents by finishing my university education I am still at the information gathering phase.
"You do NOT have to live in the U.S to get work from an FAA commercial/ATP licence. 'N' reg aircraft are based all over the world and many more carriers that accept that licence."
So as an example..., lets say I get work with Singapore Airlines who use an 'N' Reg 777 and the requirement is that the pilots must be based in Singapore.
Does this mean that although I am not a national I can still use my FAA Licence subject to having a valid work permit???? Do the regionals/nationals apply for you??
Is there any threads that can give me a more insight into this arena?. Thanks to all you great PPRUNERS out there :ok: . Keep up the good work!! Great to see a site dedicated to the aviation fraternity :}

[youngskywalker]

I don't think that singapore aircraft are on the 'N' reg, but I'm failry sure they will accept an 'ICAO' licence, an FAA CPL/ATP is 'ICAO'. I guess they would issue you with whatever their licence is. For example I think that Cathay Pacific issue a Hong Kong ATPL on the basis that you have an ICAO licence and pass their Air law and performance exams.

In short, if it's not a European commercial operator then a good chance your FAA licence will be accepted. Also if you have an FAA first class medical certificate and a CPL then passing the JAR class one is treated more like a renewal. I know 2 pilots who failed the JAR class one, got an FAA CPL then tried the medical again with success. Not gauranteed but worth looking at.

I cant help you with information regarding being a national.

No doubt somebody will shoot me down and tell me it's crap...

[Scoobster]

Thats great youngskywalker thanks for all your informative advise! So if I get denied by the CAA for a Class 1, as 'a visual field defect precludes a Class 1' it looks as though I will revert to training for the FAA licence. Worth looking into further, i am determined to make this happen.

If there is anyone that can shed any more light on this nationality issue then I would appreciate the information, as far as I understand, licences can be converted to according to the carrier/country but the other requirements are nationality issues.

Would anyone know if it is heard of for pilots to fly on a work permit? Has anyone had any experience of being a UK national and then flying for a foreign carrier on a British Passport, like Delta, or Continental, or even Cathay or Emirates etc? What I am getting at is if u have a work visa then is it ok? If not then hard luck?

[ALV2500]

Like I was saying, you can fly for a foreign carrier on a British passport provided you are legal to work in that country. Cathay pacific hire foreign pilots with an ICAO license provided they are legal to work in a given region. They sponsor foreign pilots for the HK base at present.
I'm employed by Delta in the US and I have a British passport.
Good luck,

AL

[hixton]

Al2500,

How are you employed by Delta? Have you got dual nationality, because I though you had to be an American citizen or have the right to work in the US ie a visa or greencard?

[ALV2500]

Resident alien status as noted above.

AL

[Scoobster]

Hi Alv. Thanks for that, yes I thought as much, but that it was a case of being 'legal' to work in a particular region, hence being aware of the 'greencard' issue. But then I stumbled across the J1, H1 and M1 visa, which I am assuming from the contents of your post which states 'visa or greencard', that the latter J1, H1 or M1 visa is ok too.

Il dig up a search and see what I can find on visa's.

Thanks.

[tigermagicjohn]

You cant work for an airline with J1 and M1 visa.
And the H1 you need an airline or employer to sponsor you, and as far as I know there is no shortage for pilots in the USA.

I have had other connection to this 1.5 year ago I wanted to move to the USA, but that was not an easy matter. However that was not as pilot, as I am now considering the USA school, but from what I have heard getting resident in the USA for a pilot is only possible if you get married there.

I am very interested to know if there are other ways, I doubt you can get H1 visa as pilot, and J1 is only good to work as an instructor.
Any more thougts are welcome.

[scroggs]

The US pilots' market is awash with pilots furloughed due to 9/11 and the subsequent Chapter 11 bankruptcies of several airlines, and collapse of others (most recently Independence Air). The US pilot unions are unlikely to look kindly on aliens attempting to get in on the market while many thousands of their members are out of work.

However, as previously metioned, the FAA ATP license [sic] is a recognised ICAO licence, and will be accepted by many, many countries for operation of aircraft on their national registers. For those countries that require a conversion to their national licence (Hong Kong was mentioned, but there are many others - including all of the EU), you are almost certainly theoretically required to meet all the medical requirements of an initial issue, but individual AMEs may be more lenient. You won't have a leg to stand on, though, if you're refused a licence on those grounds, so it would be as well to check first.

Scroggs

[Scoobster]

Hi tigermagicjohn,

You say you had a connection? So you have looked into this already?

Just out of curiosity are there any other alternative routes, I mean if you begin your training for an FAA Licence and no valid working status in the USA after completion, does that mean that you cannot fly anywhere, i.e. asia?? So is it like a 'catch 22'? No legal rite to work for usa/asia=no fly for regionals??

[Scoobster]

So basically, working is possible via a conversion, as long as you meet the coutries medical requirements!

[tigermagicjohn]

I will get more info for normal work permits in USA later, but from what I know only if you have an education that is in demand you can get work permit in the USA.

I tried to go there as self employed, for this you needed to invest approx. $100.000 and you would get one year at a time, then you would need to show that you would be employing US residents within 2-3 years. So this option was possible for me, but to much uncertainty so I dropped the idea.
I had a friend from Norway that went to school there in early 90's, I am trying to get in touch with him to give me some info, I know he stayed in the US for around 8 years and then got work for Cathay in HK. So he will maybe give some advice for how he did it that time.

With regards to flying for an european airline I understand that you need JAA license, they require conversion of the FAA.
Regarding Asia I dont know how it works there. Personally I will be going for a combination of both JAA and FAA, because it is more and more chances then.

Anybody been able to stay in the USA getting work without getting married there? If so how? Maybe before 9/11 was easier, but now I dont know.

[youngskywalker]

Personally I would forget working as an airline piot in the USA unless you marry a local chcik, there nay be exceptions to that, but as mentioned above there is no shortage of pilots in the States at the moment.

You can use the FAA ATP almost anywhere in the world and has nothing to do with being a national of the USA. Let's say you were fortunate enough to be employed with say Cathay for example, then they would arrange evrything you need to live and work in Hong Kong, I would imagine most other carriers in different countries would be the same, ie, Singapore, China, Emirates etc...plenty Brit's working for all of those companies with FAA and or JAR licences.

However, without lot's of jet/turboprop experience then you will be very lucky to gain employment with those big carriers based on an ICAO ATP and low hours on light aircraft. Nothing is impossible though...

[Robmark]

There may be many U.S. pilots out of work as someone mentioned, but honestly, many are not willing to take the regional jobs that are at hand right now. Tough backing up, I think in both airplane and salary.

[Robmark]

<<<<With regards to flying for an european airline I understand that you need JAA license, they require conversion of the FAA. Regarding Asia I dont know how it works there. Personally I will be going for a combination of both JAA and FAA, because it is more and more chances then.>>>

I was under the impression that a conversion to JAA/EASA from FAA required essentially retaking all the training and flight checks again, in the EU, for instance.

Why would anyone come to the U.S. to train and then go back to Europe to fly? Wouldn't the total costs be outrageous?

But maybe I missed something here. It wouldn't be the first time today.

[ALV2500]

The job market is much better in Europe than in the USA and not likely to change any time soon.

AL

[Wannagohome]

I'm trying to go the other way! From the US to Norway. I've been here a while and I'm looking into going home.

I was under the impression that a conversion to JAA/EASA from FAA required essentially retaking all the training and flight checks again, in the EU, for instance.

Yes, unless (I'm being told) you allready have a ATP and lot's of time (not sure how this is defined since I have plenty, but I can find out). It's then a matter of taking JAA written (a daunting task:{ ) and do a flight check. This info is "a work in progress" and I have no idea what airplane would be suitable/required. My assumtion at this point (working on getting it verified) is that you will end up with the JAA commercial/instrument w/ frozen ATPL.

Ask far a far as working in the US (flight instructing exludes),yes you will need a greencard and yes about the only way to get one is to marry a US citizen. Off course if you allready have a spouse and she/he can get a job in the US (outside aviation) it is possible. Her/his employer will usually sponser both. And last but not least it's always the lottery!:rolleyes:

I know for a fact that Cathey will hire someone on a ICAO (e.g. US FAA) lincense. (it's right there on the their website) I know one person who got the job with a US license.

many are not willing to take the regional jobs that are at hand right now

That's a little bit of an overstatement! Those jobs may not by "good" jobs, but young strapping men and women are standing in line to persue the "dream"

Ooops the time....... got to go

[scroggs]

Just out of curiosity are there any other alternative routes, I mean if you begin your training for an FAA Licence and no valid working status in the USA after completion, does that mean that you cannot fly anywhere, i.e. asia?? So is it like a 'catch 22'? No legal rite to work for usa/asia=no fly for regionals??

Your legal status vis-a-vis working in the USA has no relevance to your ability to use your FAA licence to work wherever such a licence is accepted. If an airline is looking for FAA licence holders, and the country it operates in accepts foreign pilots, there is nothing to stop you applying whether or not you may work in the USA. Rights of residence and rights of usage of your licence are not directly related.

Scroggs

[Tinstaafl]

To expand a bit on Scroggs answer: You're effectively asking two independent questions:

1. "Am I legal to work/reside in a particular country?". That depends on that particular country's immigration/residency/employment policies & your nationality. Some countries will view favourably some occupations above others. Others won't. This could include being a pilot, either favourably, unfavourably or notconsiderd at all

2. "Can I use my FAA licence (un-sic :E ) to be employed as a pilot?". That depends on that particular country's aviation rules. It's not necessarily related to residency/employment (although it can be). More about what foreign licences is the regulatory authority and the prospective employer willing to accept. Some countries accept the foreign licence 'as is', others issue their equivalent based on the foreign licence, while still others require some conversion process to gain the local licence. The conversion might be simple or could involve a lot of study &/or training.

[Scoobster]

Thanks for all your replies every one. That has cleared up lots of contradicting information I was getting from AMEs and other people, I guess I should have checked with immigration.

So to cover all bases then, yes I can go ahead and train for a FAA ATP and it will be accepted as an 'ICAO' licence providing the airline is hiring foreign pilots.

Secondly, the view on immigration policies is subjective?? Some airlines may allow you to operate on a 'working visa', or do all the 'leg work' for you in getting once they accept u as an employee?

But better still to check with the Immigration Office of the county. Right??

Now, all I need is the money :{