Airbus A320 Jobs?

[stefanaero]

Hello

Im a newly typerated on the A320 and done my basecheck on Finnairs A319. I finished that in december and Ive emailed many companies both in asia and europe, but many of them dont even reply.. And thoose who does its like "after reviewing you application we dont have any thing that suites your experience".

I have 580 hrs TT, 48 hrs ME, 1.1 hrs A319 (76 hrs in Level D simulator).

Is it really that hard to get a job, or should you mail (snailmail) the applications, I really need advice if someones got it. Would appriciate it.

:ok:

[scameron77]

Do you mind me asking where you did your type rating?

All that I've heard is that A320 family stuff for low hour spilots is taking place in China. I know that both Eagle Jet and a bunch of other 'you pay, we place' companies are sending people out there but I heard there was a 12 month delay from applicaiton to starting line flying.

[stefanaero]

Hi

I took it via Twinair SA, Switzerland, they used the Flight Simulator in Finland (Finnair Flight Training center).

[hotelmodemetar]

Try VUELING !!
they need pilots :ok:

[Aerowinx]

Do you speak fluent German? Then try Air Berlin. They are recruiting at the moment. I am sorry to tell that if you don't speak German, this is a no-go!

[Rocket737]

It is necessary to have the A320 typrating to be able applying at air berlin or do they also give you training on type.

Does anyone has some more information.

Thanks

[Aerowinx]

Check their Requirements
here (http://www.airberlin.com/site/jobs_dr.php?LANG=deu&BEREICH=2&ID=126). For all non German speakers i post it here:

Minimum age 21 years
Fluent German and English in words and writing is a must!!!
Valid E-mail address
Valid medical certificate
JAR license or German ATPL incl. Long Range (theory)
Type Rating Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 with minimum 500 flight hours on the suitable airplane

Chances to get an invitation are very very low if you don't fullfill the requirements! If you should pass all tests and the personal interview then they pay for a type rating on either Boing or Airbus...

[B200Drvr]

Stefanaero,
With 46 hrs of multi and only the type I think you are going to battle. Unfortunately most carriers want some experience on type, or some previous experience. You have to keep knocking on the doors, or kiss alot of frogs before you meet a princess. Just dont stop flying in the mean time, because they also look at hours in the previous six months etc.

[Scanwing]

I am starting my A320 typerating in about a month. My experience is tot fligh time of 1630h with 1300h on ME Turboprop.

What and where are my chances to get a job once I am finnished?

[ACP]

Sorry to be honest but even if you are type rated, airlines want at least 300 hours on type. I have also been looking for a year after I got my A320 rating so I decided to pay my line training in order to get this experience. If you are lucky, you may be able to deal directly with an airline otherwise you should put your name right now on the list of Eaglejet as you will wait for almost a year and believe me there is a lot of guys presently doing the line up!
A friend of mine has just completed his type rating and he has more than 4000 hrs with 3000 turbo. He is presently in Asia and went to talk to Tiger, Valuair etc., they need qualified pilots but with hours on type! Once you have an ATPL the total time is not the problem, it's the quality of the hours that you have.
The fact is that even if you pay your line training you will have to wait because airlines are so short of training captains.
Good luck!

[A320rider]

stefanaero,

where are the 120h on the A320, that twinair promess?(i have checked their website)
for 30'000 euro you have spent, why they didnt give you a job with a swiss company?.

all this is a joke, and training providers are making fun of you.
Having a type rating dont give you more chance than a guy with no t/rating.

if you want now a chance, you have to spend another 30'000 euro for 300 hours jet, and of course, with no guaranty.

at least, you wont be too expensive if employed, people having to many hours (over 300h jet)dont have more chance than pilots with no hours.

[praka1]

Hotelmodemetar Are you sure Vueling needs pilots !!!!! Ha Ha

[Aerowinx]

they don't need pilots, but CAE needs your money....
360€ for the Selection :\ in Madrid...

[unimuts]

Aerowinx

Well put, but, in a sense, yes they need pilots, but only pilots willing to dig deep into there pockets again and again. If we all stop digging then it can only put pressure onto companies to meet pilots half way in supplying training.

But this doesnt help stefanaero, all I can say is keep trying and look towards the far east and china and call all the recruitment agencies too. I am aware they need pilots with hours on type but keep going.

Good luck

Unimuts

[Founder]

I'd like to know what kind of experience you people have who are commenting? Just by looking through Flightinternationals joblines and talking to captains at MyTravel and FlyMe I've formed an opinion that it's not that hard to get at least the linetraining at lowcost carriers if you have a type-rating. Take India for example, they are clearly in an extreme need for pilots right now since they've increased retirement age up to 65 years for a captain... or am I totaly wrong?

I know of a lot of pilots who has gotten a job at for example Ryanair in Sweden right after finishing their type-rating...

/Tim

[BNflyer]

Yes, but they have finished their 737 training at SASFA or CAE and with approved interview at Ryanair HR before they attended their course. It's not enough to come and have a 737 rating with no hrs on type. I think you need at least 100 737 hrs to be approved by Ryan unless you have made your training at SASFA or CAE. Correct me if I'm wrong?

..and what I have heard concering India, is that if you do not have a valid Indian passport, you are not in interest for them. But that's just rumour..

/BN

[ciopu]

Ciao Stefanaero, how is the cost at Finnar flight center, are they competitive??.........does the type rating include the base training??
Every infos are appreciate!!:D

[Founder]

Yes, but they have finished their 737 training at SASFA or CAE and with approved interview at Ryanair HR before they attended their course. It's not enough to come and have a 737 rating with no hrs on type. I think you need at least 100 737 hrs to be approved by Ryan unless you have made your training at SASFA or CAE. Correct me if I'm wrong?
..and what I have heard concering India, is that if you do not have a valid Indian passport, you are not in interest for them. But that's just rumour..
/BN

There are a number of pilots who don't go via SASFA or SAA as it is known now. There a number of other schools in Sweden that don't offer any type of interview with Ryanair and still they employ pilots from those schoos as well... 2 of my former instructors and 1 student is now employed by Ryanair...

[BNflyer]

I think you misunderstand me. First, SASFA and SAA is not the same thing. SASFA is an abbreviation for SAS Flight Academy and they are responsible for the B737 Type Rating. SAA which is Scandinavian Aviation Academy is a different school that is responsible for the recruitment process of applicants that will be sent to the Interview and simulator assessment at East Midland, Dublin or Stansted airport.

You can read about everything here.
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?sec=careers&ref=NJAR25
…and note that they are talking about “Approved Training Schools” everywhere in the text. That means that you can't do a 737 rating on your own and then apply to Ryan unless you have the 100 hrs 737 that I talked about before.

...off course you don’t have to be a former student at BF Scandinavian Aviation Academy to be qualified for an interview at Ryan air. What I'm trying to say is that you apply to this school to get an interview opportunity.
look at. http://www.pilotpool.aero/ and
http://bfsaa.se.loopiadns.com/utbildningar.php?uid=1&aid=0

Good luck with your job hunting.

/BN

[Founder]

That means that you can't do a 737 rating on your own and then apply to Ryan unless you have the 100 hrs 737 that I talked about before.

Thanx for the links, good reading. But however one of the instructors took a type-rating at sterling last year and from what I know of he didn't have the 100 hours needed. So exceptions must have been made. But he did have a lot of jet time logged in the US before this type-rating so that might have been a deciding factor... I don't know...

Well, thank you for your quick answers, I've relly found this forum to have a lot of helpful people that shed light on things that aren't always too bright =)

Thanx
/Tim

[A320rider]

yes, go to saudia, and pry for a job. they take only guys with 2000-3000 hours TT at least..
Com'on, stop to dream, get yourself a real job and do not apply where airline ask you money!

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

What the f''k is your problem , man? I have seen loads of people buy their rating and get a job almost instantly. I dunno which planet you come from, but on ours we get jobs. It may take a while, but it seems like you have given up even before it starts.
You need to change your attitude completely, if you really want an airline job. Nobody likes a whiner.

[Dirty Harry 76]

A320rider

Name me a decent job today thats not competitive?

Maybe you should try burger King.

Get Lost. Nobody Cares!

[stefanaero]

First of all I dont feel sorry for my self, taken a CPL is a risk on its own and taking the typerating is just a step more.

Im planning to make a trip probably to asia both as a vacation and job search.

But for now I havent got my licence, Twinair messed up a little in the paperwork and communication with our examiner so he went on vacation, and our papers too.. So as for now I dont know if the papers have left Switzerland, because the Swedish CAA havent got them yet... And we had the skilltest on 1st December 2005 and basecheck 10th December.. Should it really take that long.....

When I get my licence in hand then the job hunting will really begin, I bought some jobhunting tips from pilotsnetwork.. Seems ok...

I would really like to thank you all for replying and posting to my question.

Ive making a webpage about this typerating also and you can see it on www.stefanaero.com/a320

We also took some pictures and movie clips that Im right now putting togheter..

[stefanaero]

Ciao Stefanaero, how is the cost at Finnar flight center, are they competitive??.........does the type rating include the base training??
Every infos are appreciate!!:D
Hi Ciopu
the price right now is around €30000 incl basecheck and 100hrs on Jetclub. But that money dosnt count for all extra, like travelling,housing, food and so on, myc course cost €28000 and the total sum ended up on €31000 with all.
But we had very good instructors and teh Finnair crew was very helpful and friendly. Well recommended..

[A320rider]

I have seen many guys having a job at MACDO after their type rating.
please, stop dreaming, get yourself a real paid job.if guys are here, it is simply they do not find anything...
1 hour in the A320, who want a pilot with 1 hour?

[A320rider]

I am sick to see most of you paying for a type rating and having nothing at the end!

when are you going to see the reality?
who is going to pay these young pilots with no jobs, and in debt?

[teekaythepilot]

If 100 hrs are included in 30'000 Euros, why do you have only 1 hour on type.? :confused:
Good luck to you anyway
Teekay

[heebeegb]

a320 rider is dead right. you guys must see the scam with buying a type rating. With no hours on type, it is really only just about worth the paper it's written on.

[apruneuk]

I think you need to put yourself in the position of the employer. Ideally they want fully current rated pilots who work for nothing 24 hours a day and never complain. Obviously they can't have that so they look down the list and pick the next best thing.
Sadly, the FATPL system has produced hundreds of low houred pilots who all look exactly the same on paper, have all the boxes ticked but are 500 hours short of the minimum to captain a Seneca. Hence the recent trend for paying for MCC and type ratings - anything to make the CV stand out from the crowd when all of the experienced pilots have been used up.
Some airlines use schools do some of the sifting for them - after all, as in any job, it's not just piloting ability that they are interested in; personality is important too and aptitude tests, while not 100%, can highlight those candidates with the character that each employer is looking for.
I am CP for a parachute school and receive many CVs from low hour CPLs, most of whom would, I am sure, make fine drop pilots. However, I have always taken on either high hour guys with Relevant experience or pilots who have been personally introduced/recommended to me. Apart from anything else, the company we are leasing an Airvan from this year are insisting on 700hours TT for a SEP little bigger than a C206!
I don't know what the answer is but one thing is for sure - expect to work just as hard to get your first job as you did to pass your exams and you won't be disappointed. If you want to fly for an airline with 200TT then you will have to do anything you can to make your face stand out from the crowd (including marrying the boss's daughter).

[TooLowTerrain]

A320rider,

I get the impression your not very popular on Pprune.

Not having a pop mate just an observation......:ok:

I enjoy reading your post - top comedy value, especially when you get a response which includes a proper slateing:E :E :E

[stefanaero]

If 100 hrs are included in 30'000 Euros, why do you have only 1 hour on type.? :confused:
Good luck to you anyway
Teekay

hi teekay

I failed the interview at Jetclub but decided to go for the rating anyway (which now I think was good but to be honest i would have prefered SAS Flight Academy (via BFSAA) - not that the instructors were bad or so (actually they were superb) - but the paperwork from Twinair didnt seem to be working so good - almost 2 month since I did my basecheck and no papers yet.... I also think that taken the rating without hours would actually have been cheaper via SAS (incl basecheck).....

[Dreamers saloon]

If you buy a type rating some pilots seem to think its off to the Far East. Well its a load of bull. Fact there is NOT a shortage of FO´s in Asia. I´m in recruitment and need to put some low hour pilots straight, I don´t like conmen ripping suckers off. Its now becoming common place and I have met recently some pilots who are loaded with unaffordable debt in serious financial trouble. No doubt some training organisation will be posting against this. I live work and recruit here. Please no PMs

[european champion]

Stefanaero i think u did it the risky way,if i was in your place i would first contact all the airlines and if someone was promising me a job i would go ahead and do the rating.
But u r still in a good position,just send as many letters as u can,im sure u will find something.It would be much better to go to a country where you think you have more chances of getting a job and meet people in various companies,i believe u have higher chances if u talk to someone personally than just send him a letter.
I wish u good luck.

[Left Wing]

Very true, ASIAN AIRLINES DONT HIRE LOW TIME XPAT FO'S.

guys pls stop dreaming that you will be on a beach with asian beauties with your A320 type rating and a total of 300 hrs.

all aisan airlines have to place locals as FO's , xpats only come in as Capts, TRI etc.

dont get ripped off:\

[purple head]

errrrr not 100% true, There are low hour pilots flying in Asia, some of us didn't even pay for our type ratings. What i would say about asia is it is just as hard to get a job here as any where else.So if someone tells you it is the promissed land for low hour pilots, its not true, but it is possible to get work here. So if you feel like you have to buy a type rating apply to everywhere including Asia.

[Plopypoop]

It is true. Go and get an A320 or 737 type rating then you will almost certainly find a job in the far east within about 1 month.:ok: It is a sure thing IMHO. It is only £15-30K so worth a try. Please give it a go as someone who pays that much for a chance of maybe getting a crappy job deserves to get one and in the far east you will. I would say good luck to anyone planning to do this but you wont need it as they are so short of pilots it is a sure thing. I am not taking the piss, you will get a job and I know any of you who pay for a rating without a job lined up will get just what they deserve. See you on the beaches.

[count dingleberry]

plopypoop,
when you are done preaching here,
I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you..........

[Plopypoop]

Only if it is over £30K and will increase my chances of becoming an airline pilot earning £20K a year at best. If it wont I am thinking of buying a train so I can get experience driving it and then I may be able to pay GNER or Virgin trains to employ me for a year or so whilst I gain some experience, a risk I know but they must need experienced train drivers so worth a shot. The other option is to stop being such a ******* idiot and wait until I get offered a proper job after putting in a couple of years hard work gaining experience whilst getting paid to fly singles then twins then twin turboprops. If only I had the money to waste and behave like a prat with and then I could also be doing my part helping to ruin the industry.

[count dingleberry]

putting in a couple of years hard work
you call sitting still on a cushioned seat watching your ass grow hard work?
No but seriously Plopypoop,
I don't think we should judge anybody here. Live and let live I say.
We all know if you had the money, you sure as hell wouldn't be spending it on no bridge.........

See you in Taipei:p

[Plopypoop]

I am not judging anyone. I think that anyone who buys a type rating without at the very least a firm job offer is a complete prat. It is not judging as it is not really a case of one way being right for some and another right for others. The only way it can been seen by anyone who is sane is a complete waste of money and anyone who goes down that route deserves to end up crying over the amount of money they have wasted and possible personal problems it may produce:ok:. Why people do it is something I will never understand.
By hard work I meant 4 years working from a 206 to a twin turboprop pic job getting paid £36,000 now at the age of 26 and only just thinking about trying to get an airline job this year with 2500hrs of which 1300 are PIC in turboprops. And yes I do find it funny listening to people moan about all the money they have spent and havent got a job, especialy when that includes a type rating worth over £20K. I just find it funny, is that wrong? Am I a bad person? It also makes me a bit mad, not enough to lose sleep over or get worked up about but it is sad that these idiots are going to make it harder for me to find a desent paying shiny big plane job because people are willing to work for nothing and pay for their training.
I hope they end up in an office with their expired FATPL and 737 type rating wishing they had just a bit more cash to spend on 300hrs line flying with some crappy outfit to beef up their CV to 500TT and then they would be guarenteed a job. It is insanity, there is no other way to look at it.
Rant over.

[purple head]

Plopyploop.Easy tiger..........calm down.
1. I did not pay for my type rating, not all companies here make you.
2. The pay is Crap compared to Europe, but high compared to locals in other jobs. Even after paying my loan for training I have a good standard of living.
3. It is a once in a life time experience to live in a totally different culture - and I love it so far.
4. If you are going to pay for you type rating, then also apply to Asia for a job. Like Plopyploop I'd do not agree with Self Sponsored type ratings, as I said earlier I did not do one but there are some jobs here. I am not saying do or don't get a type rating, I am just saying- on the same topic as the original post- that some low hour pilots do get jobs here FULL STOP

[A320rider]

I am not looking for sympathy or friends here...
I want you realize that this market is a joke and I want you realize you will not get your money back if you pay for a type or if your join ryanair or eagle jet.
spending more money after your CPL, MCC is a waste of money.

... if I learn they get jobs after their type rating,I will join one of these TRTO.

[RVR800]

:cool: So A320Rider, your investigations have revealed that the A320 rating is a WOFT, had you considered another type such as an SD360 (a little cheaper) and it may get you started?

[Heph224]

Its kind of expensive to get 300 hrs on type, plus, PFT sucks

[RightSeat]

Well.. I have recently bought a A320 type rating with some line training, more specific 100 hours. (save all comments about buying a rating, I have been unemployed for 3 years due to this wonderful market !!:}

My question to all you more experienced pilots is: is the market changing, and the need for pilots starting to boom again. (ofcourse, Asia and India, but they still have high demands on experience on type)

100 hours on type... is it enough to be interesting to the airline ??:rolleyes:

Any remarks are better than none !

Thanks,
RightSeat:ok:

[MD12]

It's quite funny how you say "I bought a TR". My friend, a Type Rating is not something that you buy, it is suppose to be a training you get, even if you pay for it, but you have to study for it, you have to improve your skills and knowledge,etc... Did you "buy" your CPL license as well?

[Pander216]

If you had done some research and looked at the A320 orders you could not have overseen the fact that Air Berlin has ordered 60 A320's with deliveries started in september 2005.

With recieving 12 planes in 2006 ( 3 A319 and 9 A320 ) they will need approx. 70 new F/O's, only this year!

[Dani]

Out of my experience I found it very difficult to find a job with less than 500 hrs on the line. But it's not impossible. Just apply everywhere (and I mean it), and you might have luck. Best try is Air Asia. Try Vueling, Air Berlin, Wizzair and Niki. I expect the situation to deteriorate (i.e. to improve for you) on the A320, so in the next years you might have a chance. Problem will be that you will run out of currency if you don't keep on flying.

Good luck,
Dani

[ali1]

Like the relevance of your post MD12. I suppose if we want to be correct it should have read 'paid for a rating'!!!

[180 Too Fower]

I agree with MD12......Sounds like you just walked in to a Pilot Shop and thought....hmm ahh A320 Rating that will do nicely....do you take Visa?....and can I get Nectar points on that:confused:
Good luck though.

[dartagnan]

so why did you "buy" a type rating if it is to be unemployed for 3 years.
I agree this market is wonderful, but who is paying at first instance?.

[Pilot Pete]

I think you are facing the same problem as at the start of your job search;

Many pilots think that having 500hrs will make them more attractive to an airline than when they had 300hrs. If it's all single engine time it really makes no difference.

I reckon having a basic type rating and 100hrs line flying means you have just scratched the surface of building experince on an A320. The big problem is that stopping flying the machine so shortly after starting on it means that you will not consolidate at all. Then, the old catch 22 starts again; you can't afford to buy any more hours and therefore don't fly for 1 month, which soon becomes 6 months and then ends up lapsing if you can't afford to renew in the sim 12 months later.

You have to try to be dispassionate and look at how desirable this is really going to make you in the eyes of an A320 Fleet Manager. He knows just how important continuity is for a pilot at that stage in his career. He also knows that lack of continuity means the new skills quickly become 'tatty' and give it a year and you will pretty much need to start again.

Your best bet is to absolutely hammer the doors of A320 (and the other little bus) operators worldwide in the hope of getting a break sooner rather than later as the task is going to become harder the longer it is since you last flew the thing.

Of course you are also up against the operators who prefer you to do the type rating through their prefered supplier/ scheme (usually because they get a kick back and it is geared towards their operation). Some will regard you as costsing them potential earnings because you have come along with the basic type rating!

It's alright to say you don't want to hear the usual comments about paying for a type rating, but unfortunately the issue of paying and the question you have asked about potential employment are inextricably linked.

I wish you well, but do post the above as a warning to others who might feel the glossy adverts for line training hours on top of type rating are a sure fire bet. I have always advocated getting onto one of the 'schemes' as part of paying for a rating, if you feel that is the way to go. At least that way you will get some more experience on line before your permanent position materialises or they allow you to become a free agent again.

Good luck.

PP

[Heffer]

Dartagnan -

I think he meant he has been unemployed for 3 years prior to sinking funds into a TR.

A friend of a friend bought an A320 rating and flew last summer for a major UK charter outfit. I believe he was only paid flight pay and was out of work come end of summer season (albeit with 250 hrs on type) and still without work now.

[OBK!]

Hi

What training company offered you this type rating with 100hrs?

Rgds

[CamelhAir]

save all comments about buying a rating

Why? Truth hurt buddy?

[DeltaSix]

Rightseat, I would've done it the other way around. Apply for a job first then get the type rating while including this in your resume "willing to pay for own type rating on A320 and initial 100 hours to help airline".

That would make it more attractive. This is saying that you are willing to help the airline reduce their costs in endorsements and line training for you.

But, since you have the TR now, You might have to say "willing to pay for another 200 hours " Just to get your foot in the door, if you can afford it since most airlines would require around 300 hours on jets.


Good luck bud.

DeltaSix

[A320rider]

hi a-rider,
i think you know hell a lot about the aviation business
but can you let us join about your experiences...
teach us what aviation is about, give us examples and details
just to understand your short arguments...
i know a person you has about 3.000h TP gained in europe,
applyied via website of easyjet with its TRSS and now is flying an airbus...
after having some x-thousands hours on jet...
a company change will allow him to earn enough money so he can finish flying when beeing aged of 50.
not bad and it works out good so far!
but its aviation you never know where you will end up...
:)

yeah, I know hell about this aviation scam...it is all messed up, all about your money and how much your bank will screw you for the rest of your life..

watch out guys!

what about our stephano? have you found a job? or interviews in sight?

I like your website page,your are a great guy, just wait to have me as captain!!!

[A320rider]

o mann,

I ask myself this question everyday, what can we do?I do not have the money for 2-3 type ratings, and I do not have the money to pay 500 hours for each airplane.

you have to wait, and continue to apply.one of my friends always tell me:"you have to believe"...

[wondering]

I reckon most of us agree paying for a TR is wrong, but market forces are stronger.
Anyhow, I was wondering how so many people are able to keep paying for ATPL licence, TR, line training, living expenses etc. That really puzzles me. How do you finance that?

[A320rider]

I do not need to make my own company with airplanes, I just need to find 3-4 pilots willing to invest in a type rating+pay to fly, on this I take a "generous comission" of 35-40% and I am done...:E (hotel, girls, beach,nice car,....with your money)
(do like eaglejet and xxx link)

and if I want really screw you, I file bankroute, and I disapear with your $...
the only problem I have with this excellent idea, I have to many scrupules!and I believe some people in this industry will burn in hell!

as for the question where the $ come from: parents for the majority of us.

where is our stepahnaero ???

[south coast]

to be really honest, in my humble opinion, i think people like stefano are nothing more than foolish to pay for a a320 or b-737 type rating.

i know my place on the aviation ladder, but what makes him/they think they are anywhere near capable at 200-300 hours to fly a large and complex machine that they have just completed a rating on?

lets be serious, they should be able to fly the machine on their own should the old boy on the left die, with one dead engine in imc....yeah right!

even an experienced guy would struggle with those conditions, a 250 hour guy with a rating?

i just find it amazing that all these people reckon they should start their flying career on a 737 or 320...!

work your way up like the rest of have had to who have not had the old mans cash to splash around!

maybe if they stopped paying for ratings, then some kind of natural order would re-appear within the aviation world for people to get their first job and then ptogress up the ladder towards the heavy metal...

[zooloflyer]

Keep on dreaming mate of your new world order...:\

I have to say that I just did some pilot incapacitation exercices on a B733 FFS with just under 400hrs TT and I must admit that it was easier than with a multi-engine piston, even 1 engine out - flies a lot smoother than a Piper or King. Don't see no problem there.

[A320rider]

I agree, these commercial airplanes are easier to fly than a beech baron or an old 727 by exemple.
Pilots who did their MCC on the Airbus could tell you it is not so hard to "manage" a A320 computer.
but what would happen if you have an engine failure, fire on board, loss of efis screens and radio failure, a dead captain ,...and a gun pointed at you???now we are back in a beech!;)

I think 50 hours on twin is not enough for a A320 job. 150-200h would be adequate.

[south coast]

dream on people...pass your cpl's, ir's, mcc's and think you know it all...

'tever...

[zooloflyer]

Don't get me wrong South. You have a point but I don't think things are gonna change a lot in EU for some time.

Problem is that there's also a very limited market for cadet pilots in Europe in GA, instruction or business aviation. It's totaly not like the US market.
It's even harder to get an interview at turbo-prop airlines like VLM or Netjets - their requirements are even tougher than the ones like EasyJet, Ryan, Wizz etc - even BA...strange but it's certainly like that in Belgium.

It's all topdown - saw an advertisement of BA today in Flight - so they will steal pilots away from the smaller companies and a lot of the youngsters are willing to pay for a TR to fly the jet so I guess the small companies will soon have to lower their requirements and start training the way it should be.

Hope!

[south coast]

fair point zoo...

i just remember back to when i had 200 hours and compare it to now after 7 years of flying and think that back then i knew nothing. i thought i knew lots but i just think we only realise a little down the way that at 200-300 hours we have been granted a licence to learn and little more....

and normally when people embark on a journey of learning it is from the easy stuff working up to the more complex stuff as a better understanding and experience levels are increased...

[zooloflyer]

Just spoke to a retired captain today - know what he said?

He told me that the nicest thing of his carreer was that he kept on learning and experiencing new things untill his very last stretch!

Just hope that I will fly BEFORE I retire :8

[A320rider]

the license is a license to learn.

there will be no TR offered by airlines.Most companies can not afford to pay you a TR.
since the begining of aviation(192x?) price has always increased.
remember years ago with the MCC?now look at eagle jet, and jet link, they ask for 60'000$ after the cpl and MCC.and they find people!

in 10 years, they will ask you to pay to own a part in the company...

[a320jokes]

Just posted a thread looking for a TR on A320 + line experience...

Found it at Jetlink on top of the Pprune site, although slightly over budget....:bored: WAW man this is amazing - are you sure they manage to fill these slots????? Who can pay that?

I heard of 737 SSTR up to 30.000€ and free flying for 6 or 12 months but this is new...more than doubles the figure - this is like an auction on Ebay!

Maybe it's just a joke?

[a320jokes]

It must be a joke - you'll get about 30hrs of sim; it's what I did in my MCC on EFIS boeing for a little more than 1/10th of the Jetlink 66.000€ and we did nothing TR related, just learning to handle the jet...

So; you pay on average 2000€/hr on the sim + no pay and own expenses + they ask you to come and do an INTERVIEW; the only one that I would like to interview very seriously is JETLINK itself!! - imagine them going bankrupt or whatever...

It's a crazy world after all...

Imagine 80.000€ for CPL ME and IR, MCC and next 66.000 for TR and line experience; that's roughly 180.000€ expenses inclusive - that's more expensive than a Bentley Continental!!!

[Send Clowns]

A320rider printing more lies again! there will be no TR offered by airlinesThis is a lie. He knows it, as we have told him. I have friends that have had type ratings from various airlines. They were not obsessed with flying jets though, just wanted to fly.

So A320rider - have you got a CPL? Or just a PPL? Where do the lies start and end?

a320jokes

Why are you considering this if you don't want to pay? Why not get an ATR rating, or a Dash 8? You're much more likely to get a job anyway! Or why not hour build until you can do single-pilot IFR public transport? There is more than one way to make it as a pilot, the way to fail is to become obsessed with one route.

You're not another pseudonym for a320rider are you?

[a320jokes]

I saw this one coming - no I am not A320rider - purely a coincidence!

Although I must say that seeing the price of this A320 thing almost blew my head off! and indeed I also think that it's a wrong statement that airlines will never pay (again) for the TR.
But these days, you can argue about what is the difference - paying and getting a decent paycheck or not paying for the TR an being a slave for a few years...

As I just finished my MCC I try to do some research and see what the possibilities are and as you mentioned, I am also getting more info on the ATR at CAE and others as this is the more logical way to follow for me but, on the other hand, I suppose the TR for a prop won't be much cheaper and the pay afterwards a lot less...so how to pay back the debts??

Instruction has also been on my mind, in fact it was my initial goal but in Belgium, not really an option; first paying 7000€ for not much work and no pay...+ I guess there are even more instructors in Belgium than there are candidate pilots at the moment.

Like I said on the other thread; I guess I'll just wait a bit more and watch the days go by...

[Send Clowns]

Good!

It is much cheaper for a t'prop rating - and you pay it back with a job!

I am not actually suggesting this as the best way, just better than a pre-emptive jet type rating. Remember if you have a jet rating no-one will emply you on pistons or turboprops, still common entry-level jobs, but with a t'prop rating jet operators will still consider you. Rather I would send out hundreds of CVs, and on the covering letter I would say that I am willing to pay for additional training if required. Then you get to buy the type rating with a job offer in the pocket, you feel far more secure!

That phrase got me my first interview, by the way. The "the answer's yes, now what's the question" attitude it is part of got me my job, which I love.

Why not instruct in the UK? There is a lot of work about if you are committed to flying, and pay is not as bad as it once was.

[a320jokes]

You're reading my mind Clowns, that's another possibility with the least insecurity and still a more conventional way of getting the first real job than just going to the supermarket, buying a TR and next see what happens. I don't feel very comfortable with that strategy.

Thanks my friend, a very good advice!

[a320jokes]

By the way; any specific website where there's more info on the instructing jobs in the UK?

Thanks.

[A320rider]

I say most airline won't pay the type rating.
most airlines have to be competitive, and in the futur, you will not see many airlines offering a TR except the big one like BA, airfrance, KLM,...

[Send Clowns]

A320jokes

My absolute pleasure! Not sure of any websites - I just applied locally but I had the contacts. I know there are many schools that need instructors though. Good luck with whichever route you choose!

A320rider

That's more lies. Air Southwest is not a big airline, just as an example off the top of my head. They pay for the rating. In fact as far as I can think it is mostly large airlines like Ryanair that require you to pay. Plenty that don't - they might bond you, but that is to protect their considerable investment.

It has been suggested, by someone claiming to know you, that you don't even have a CPL. Is that true?

[j123s]

Turbo-Prop TR is certainly the way forward when your starting out.

However, ive heard that Air Southwest bond new pilots to the tune of £20'000 (not including interest) over fours years. Plus, the bond is in the form of an unsecured bank loan, in your name, which the company make the repayments on whilst in employment with Air Southwest. And if that doesnt sound bad enough for a Dash rating, the loan is 'frozen' for the first year with repayments not starting till the beginning of year two.:eek: :eek: :eek:

So be careful.

[umitatl]

Hi there,

I am looking for applying trto for 320 family,and i would like to know how the situation to find a job at middle east,far east and absolutely europe???

And if avaible please you can give additional information about costs of this training,i got some offerings and comparing will be so good...

I have 295 TT,80 hours on twin jet...

Thanks,

[mimi2006]

Maybe there is a chance for you in the GCC. Would you move to the Arabian Gulf?

[Bad Robot]

The only airport coming up GCC on "Welcome to World Airport Codes" , is Campbell County in the States???

http://www.world-airport-codes.com/


BR.

[FlyingSpanner]

The GCC is the series of states around the Gulf Region. Think it stands for Gulf Co-operation Countries.

So now you are looking at Dubai, Saharjah, Kuwait, Bahrain, Soudi and the likes.

Hope this helps.

Flying Spanner :ok:

[Bad Robot]

Thanks, that a new one for me!

BR.

[stefanaero]

Hi All

I finally manage to get a job, but not on theA320 which I took a typerating on,

Im flying for a swedish airline flying BAe Jetstream 32, Its finally flying.

I can sum up my experience, taking the A320 TR was probably one of my biggest misstakes ever (most finacally), well it was fun and you learned a lot but wasting so much money on something that you should be paid to do. My Jetstream rating was paid by my company and Ive flown around 250hrs on it and it keeps on going.

Some of you say that a new lowtimer with 250hrs or so shouldnt fly a jet, well to be honest - the Jetstream rating was MUCH tougher than the A320, the jetstream is some how pretty unstable compared to most aircrafts Ive flown (PA34,PA31) so I would say that Jetstream is much harder to fly. The A320 has computers that manage most of the things that you manually do and flying with one engine is even more easier than flying with both on the BA32 (Jestream)...
So I would say that Jet is much easier, but If everything goes to ¤/%# than it really comes to experience.. And that something that you dont get from the beginning.. Flying scheduled traffic is both easier and harder, easier since your two - but harder since you almost fly in EVERY weather condition (RVR 550 is tough - since our Jetstreams doesnt have autopilot..). But its FUN and I love it, although its not the Airbus - but with a couple of more hours than I can get to the next step :)

So flying big from the beginning is fun and all - but to be honest - If I knew what I know now - I would have not taken the A320 rating. Flying smaller turboprop is good for your experience.

But if you get a chance directly on the jets - Take it :) its better paid ;)

[Anonymus6]

Nice to hear that you got a job. keep building your time and the A320 rating will become handy in the future. The way the industry is going and order of A320!!!! A lot of jobs in the future for QUALIFIED PILOTS!!!