JAR Type Proficiency Checks

[engineoff]

What is the general feeling towards the current necessity for yearly proficiency checks to keep current on each type, as well as the 2 hours pilot on type requirement.
For someone with say 4 or 5 types 'on their ticket' this means 4/5 checkrides which currently have to be done with an FIE, of which there are few.( 5 or 6 in the UK?) Surely the cost implications of this are pretty severe, particularly say for the freelance professional pilot who flies a number of hours on different machines and has to fund the flight tests out of his own pocket. Any thoughts?

[Pinger]

As someone who does juat a little helo flying as a freelancer every now and then this has put me out of the market.

It used to be a simple matter for the Chief Instructor to asess how much recurrent I needed befire doing a base cx, now I have to do 2 hrs per type, to date I have not needed anything like that on the simple B206.

I wrote to the CAA to query this 2 hrs minimum and was told there is rising concern (in the umpteen european states) at the level of light helo accidents...yet as far as I can see the rule makes no allowance for size or complexity, a S61 driver seems to be treated the same as a Jetranger which is clearly nonsensical, but worse there seems to be no distinction made between private and commercial!

Worse, and even more discriminatory (I hope Im reading the book correctly) there seem to be NO MINIMA FOR AEROPLANES AT ALL!!! Apparently recurrency in any aeroplane, no matter how complex is "at Ch Instructors discretion". Thus a PPL in a King Air gets what he needs, and a Professional with 3000 hrs on the utterly simple Jetranger has to do 2 hrs regardless. Can this possibly be right?

JAR Progress? Bah!

[This message has been edited by Pinger (edited 17 May 2000).]

[Robbo Jock]

It is a little onerous. I feel a check ride can't really ever be a bad thing, but I agree, if you have several types and need two hours in each (one of which can be the LPC) you're looking at a wadge of dosh. In my situation, I've got two types and am in the middle of revalidating them both. Since getting my CPL I've had no flight time (no job) and suddenly I've got to bash out two hours in the Robbo plus two hours in the Jet Ranger. Quite a hit. But, as I say, I think it's a fairly necessary evil.

I do find it a bit strange that, to keep your types current, before they lapse, you need to do a minimum of two hours, including a flight test, yet to revalidate a lapsed licence you need to do a minimum of ... two hours including a flight test.

Plus, I'd like to know what the CAA is going to do with all the bits of paper it gets when you do take the test, and how long is it going to be before they decide that having demanded we send them in, they'll just have to charge us a fortune to process them ?

[Earpiece]

I was talking to an helicopter pilot who flew to Belgium (and back) on Monday and the Belgian helicopter pilots he met said that JAR FCL for helicopters would not be legal in Europe for another two years! They state that the UKCAA has jumped the gun (in standard UK style) and has made it legal through the ANO. Since JAR FCL is in such chaos over here and of no interest anywhere else(how do you know if an instrument rating LPC is current in a UK licence and how is it idnetifiable by one of the JAA signatory states' CAA equivalent officials?)why don't we go back to the beginning until everyone else is ready for it and prepared to comply?

Why can't we just stick to cricket - we play that badly enough and who cares?

"keeping all ears to the ground"

[212man]

So, you'd all be happy to send your wife and kids flying on a public transport flight, with a pilot who had less than 2 hours on type in the preceeding 12 months?

In practice, a current pilot is just doing an OPC (old base check) that will be an LPC (old C of T)as well. Even if he(she?) hasn't flown prior to the check, it is easy to envisage that the visual and instrument elements for a twin engine type will amount to 2 hours anyway.

I accept that an R22 LPC could be done in about 35 minutes, but still, if you haven't flown in the last year I don't imagine you'd be too slick.

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Another day in paradise

[Pinger]

212 man, bear in mind that most of the light helo jocks in UK are not instrument rated, and all we are talking about is a VMC base Cx. (the line Cx is only applicable after the licence is revalidated).

Many of us are current in other fields of aviation so 2 hrs in the last year "on type" is not much threat to your wife and kids if we have 3000hrs on type previously, after all, flying the Jetranger is much like riding a bicycle; you dont forget. Even the simple Twins take little time to refamil after a year or two away, so why the 2 hrs if the Ch Inst doesn't think it necessary? How are your wife and kids safer in that much more complex King Air???

This is simply a nonsense, and a discriminatory regulation that clearly restricts our rights to earn our livings as licenced and tested Professionals. I doubt it is legal, tho it would take a brave soul to go to the yurropeen court of "Human Rights" to prove it.

I hope someone does though, because this idiocy is screwing my chance to do some fun flying amongst the tedium of flying complex multi jet Fl370 200 seat plank-wings that I dont need any minimum hours to stay current on cos theyre so simple.....????

GRRRR http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by Pinger (edited 18 May 2000).]

[eurocopter]

Engine off states it has to be a FIE to undertake the check. It actually has to be a TRE on type that takes the tests.
As for 2 hours being too much, a Line/proficiency and 2 base checks per year will take care of the two hours even if no Public transport are undertaken (Unlikley)
As for Private self fly hirers - Most reputable schools will require a flight every 28 days or a checkout by an instructor.
I think if you are unlikely to do either of the above - you might as well renew the rating when required. After flying with PPL's who have not seen an instructor for a few years I think it will do everyone a favour for them to see a TRE each year.

[engineoff]

Eurocopter is right; checked my facts today and was told the check can be done either by an FIE or a TRE that holds a current instructor rating and is type current. Supposedly with regard to these proficency checks, the CAA were asked if they were prepared to authorise further examiners to conduct these tests , however at this time I gather their reply was that they would not.....

[212man]

Pinger,
look on the bright side: JARs have allowed you to do the LPC every 12 months, rather than the 6 monthly C of T as required by the CAA. How long did two (206) C of Ts add up to? 1:10-1:30? and you still need to do two OPCs anyway if you are flying CAT. I still think 2 hours is not unreasonable in a year, even some of the so called current people can require quick reactions at times.

Eurocopter,
thanks for your leads last year, got myself a 155 trip jacked up in June, cheers.

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Another day in paradise

[This message has been edited by 212man (edited 20 May 2000).]