Helicopter crash off Cape Point [Archive]

Deanw

17th Jan 2006, 10:01

News24: 17/01/2006 12:42 - (SA)
Helicopter crashes off Cape Point

Cape Town - A civilian helicopter crashed off the coast at Cape Point on Tuesday, rescue authorities said.

Metro emergency doctor Wayne Smith said divers from the South African Navy, police and metro emergency services were preparing to enter the water near Buffels Bay, Cape Point after debris was spotted.

"Seats and papers have come to the surface," said Smith, adding details were sketchy and that a Skymed helicopter was at the scene.

Meanwhile, Jacques Smit of the Maritime Rescue Co-ordinating Centre, said two or three naval vessels were in the area helping with the search.

"The airforce was busy with a search and rescue exercise this morning, that's why all the facilities are there but it's definitely not a military helicopter, it's a civilian helicopter."

Smit said the helicopter was presumed to be a two-seater Robertson 22, which usually carried two crew.

Deanw

17th Jan 2006, 11:40

News24: 17/01/2006 13:32 - (SA)

Copter crash: 1 person on board

Cape Town - Rescue authorities said on Tuesday that a civilian helicopter which crashed near Cape Point belonged to Starlite Aviation.

"It does belong to Starlite Aviation. Information from the Civil Aviation Authority said that only one person was on board," said Jacques Smit of the Maritime Rescue Co-ordinating Centre.

Staff at Starlite, which is headquartered in Durban but also operates from Cape Town International Airport, did not want to confirm that the helicopter belonged to them.

The personal assistant to Starlite chief executive officer Barry Duss said he had gone into an "emergency meeting" and would be available later for comment.

Earlier on Tuesday, authorities confirmed the civilian helicopter crashed near Buffels Bay.

Divers from the South African Navy, police and metro emergency services were preparing to enter the water after debris was spotted floating on the surface.

Smit said two or three naval vessels were in the area helping with the search.

"The airforce was busy with a search and rescue exercise this morning, that's why all the facilities are there but it's definitely not a military helicopter, it's a civilian helicopter."

Smit said the helicopter was presumed to be a two-seater Robertson 22.

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 12:14

:sad: My Sincere condolences to friends, family and Starlite Helicopters. :sad:

Cape Town - The civilian helicopter crash near Cape Point on Tuesday was a "very sensitive issue", according to the company which operated the aircraft.

"At this stage we can't confirm anything because it's still under investigation... The aircraft was not owned by Starlite Aviation but was operated by Starlite," said chief executive Barry Duff.

Duff said he was unaware of the circumstances which led to the crash, and was awaiting a final report from investigators and emergency personnel before commenting further.

Divers from various agencies were on Tuesday afternoon still trying to recover the body of the only pilot on board at the time of the crash near Buffels Bay.

Debris from the crash, including paper and cockpit seats, were seen floating near the site.

South African Navy vessels, coincidentally in the area for a search and rescue operation, were assisting the search for the body of the unnamed pilot.

Unconfirmed reports suggest the pilot was still in training during the solo flight.

The aircraft which went down was a two-seater Robertson 22.

Chopper Crash a Sensitive issue (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,6119,2-7-1442_1864592,00.html)

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 12:22

Well at least the body has been recovered .. :sad:

CAPE TOWN
Helicopter crash: Body found
Sapa and staff reporter
Tue, 17 Jan 2006

The body of the pilot involved in this morning's helicopter crash off Cape Point has been found. It is understood a lone trainee pilot was at the helm before the chopper crashed, according to 702 Eyewitness News.

Rescue authorities said on Tuesday that a civilian helicopter which crashed near Cape Point belonged to Starlite Aviation, reported Sapa.

"It does belong to Starlite Aviation. Information from the Civil Aviation Authority said that only one person was on board," said Jacques Smit of the Maritime Rescue Co-ordinating Centre.

Staff at Starlite, which is headquartered in Durban but also operates from Cape Town International Airport, did not want to confirm that the helicopter belonged to them.

The personal assistant to Starlite chief executive officer Barry Duss (DUFF Gen MATE) :E said he had gone into an "emergency meeting" and would be available later for comment.

Earlier on Tuesday, authorities confirmed the civilian helicopter crashed near Buffels Bay.

Divers from the South African Navy, police and metro emergency services were preparing to enter the water after debris was spotted floating on the surface.

Smit said two or three naval vessels were in the area helping with the search.

"The airforce was busy with a search and rescue exercise this morning, that's why all the facilities are there, but it's definitely not a military helicopter, it's a civilian helicopter."

Smit said the helicopter was presumed to be a two-seater Robertson 22.

Spetsnaz

17th Jan 2006, 13:37

Just filched this off reporter.co.za !!

Chopper crashes off Cape Point

Eyewitnesses see craft plunge into water and disappear in seconds

By Lauren Maker-Kotoglu

It was not just another day for Luthando Mase, a baboon monitor at Cape Point Nature Reserve. His job is to make sure that the baboons don't interfere with the thousands of tourists that visit the Cape of Good Hope daily. But on this hot and humid day Luthando witnessed something out of the ordinary. He saw a helicopter crash into the sea.

Managing a guesthouse just a few kilometers away, I heard siren after siren pass by. I quickly called the Two Oceans restaurant to find out what was going on. Everyone was still in shock and explained that a helicopter had crashed right before their eyes. I grabbed my camera and notebook and jumped into the car.

At approximately 10.30am this morning Luthando and his fellow colleagues were chatting and watching two helicopters fly over the sea just about 200 metres off Rooikrans, Cape Point Nature Reserve. Mase explained that they seem to be flying together. One was a Naval Helicopter and the other was a small two-seater helicopter. The smaller chopper suddenly flipped over twice and crashed into the sea. Luthando immediately radioed to the control room and explained what happened.

Another eyewitness Jenny Christie from Wiltshire, UK, said she was about to tuck into her lunch when she saw the chopper flip over and lose control heading cockpit first into the ocean. She watched the cockpit fill up with water in a matter on seconds before the aircraft disappeared below the ocean. She also commented on how quick the rescue team was out and about scanning the area for any survivors.

The police and rescue team had set up a Joint Rescue Centre where they all worked together trying to work out what caused this tragedy. Divers from the South Africa Navy said that while they were preparing to enter the water that they had seen debris floating on the surface.

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 14:58

At approximately 10.30am this morning Luthando and his fellow colleagues were chatting and watching two helicopters fly over the sea just about 200 metres off Rooikrans, Cape Point Nature Reserve. Mase explained that they seem to be flying together. One was a Naval Helicopter and the other was a small two-seater helicopter. The smaller chopper suddenly flipped over twice and crashed into the sea. Luthando immediately radioed to the control room and explained what happened.

I respect your wishes HedgePig.

NAVAL helicopter ? :confused:

On KFM at 1730 they said that the divers could see the wreck and will bring it up tomorrow.

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 15:32

CAPE TOWN
Crashed helicopter's wreckage found

Tue, 17 Jan 2006
Divers have located the wreckage of a civilian helicopter which went down on Tuesday near Cape Point, and the trainee pilot still appeared strapped in, rescue personnel said.

"The plan is to recover the body today (Tuesday). We have the position of the wreckage and are diving on the aircraft. It appears as if the pilot was still trapped inside the wreckage," said Jacques Smit of the Maritime Rescue Co-ordinating Centre.

Smit said divers wanted to remove the airframe on Wednesday.

The trainee pilot could not be positively identified yet, but unconfirmed reports suggested he was a man from Cape Town in his 40s.

Earlier, sophisticated sonar equipment was delivered to the crash site off Buffels Bay in a bid to locate the wreckage and the pilot, the only person on board.

The "side scan sonar" helped X-ray the bottom of the seabed, about 20 metres underwater, said Darren Zimmerman of the National Sea Rescue Institute.

He said a 20-knot westerly wind was blowing, and water currents could shift the wreck.

The two-seater helicopter which crashed was the popular Robinson 22, operated by Starlite Aviation.

An employee at Starlite Aviation, who wanted to remain anonymous, said trainee pilots received on average 15 to 25 hours of training with an instructor before being allowed to fly solo.

The company's chief executive, Barry Duff, (They Got it right now) did not want to divulge the pilot's identity or any other information, saying it was "very sensitive issue".

"At this stage we can't confirm anything because it's still under investigation... The aircraft was not owned by Starlite Aviation but was operated by Starlite," said Duff.

He said he was unaware of the circumstances which led to the crash, and was awaiting a final report from investigators and emergency personnel before commenting further.

Earlier on Tuesday, debris from the crash, including paper and cockpit seats, were seen floating near the site.

South African Navy vessels, coincidentally in the area for a search and rescue operation, were assisting the search for the body.

The Robinson helicopters are among the world's best-selling civilian piston-powered helicopters.

Sapa

From iAfrica (http://iafrica.com/news/sa/812204.htm)

I.R.PIRATE

17th Jan 2006, 16:33

Im not one to fall for most of the sensationalist bulltwang written by journo's when it comes to Aviation reporting.

BUT-One question raises its head here. They report that the choppers were flying together....very interesting. It brings me to a slightly off topic aerodynamic question.

Could any of the chopper boys explain to a non-flinging-wing boy, what kind of downwash/induced vortices one chopper flying near by another could cause, and could it hypothetically bring another helo down?

If there is any offence at this question being asked here, I will remove it ASAP-just say so:ok:

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 16:46

Could any of the chopper boys explain to a non-flinging-wing boy, what kind of downwash/induced vortices one chopper flying near by another could cause, and could it hypothetically bring another helo down?

Same here : If it is felt as offensive - delete.

Pirate to answer your question I will make use of one example. I once did a recce for the UN and then landed on an old runway in West Africa.

I blasted the local pop and when the UN came with their Mi-26 a brick was flung up by the MI-26 blade wash and severly injured a troop that was in an area he should not be !

If it was a fellow R22 next to him - no waise !
If it was a Frelon - for sure his rotor wash could have taken him out.

Again speculation due to possible bad reporting on a second helo and if you feel it to be offensive. Report to the mods and they will delete the post at their discretion.

Cheers

Gunss

B Sousa

17th Jan 2006, 16:47

IRP
That could be a problem, but it would require that they both occupy air space which would be extremely close. Given that there would have been two in the drink, Im sure.
Give it a day or so and lets see what the basic facts tell us.
I do remember times of overlapping rotors in Hueys, but that was in another life.

LOAC

17th Jan 2006, 16:57

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 16:59

Formation flying in a helicopter is done in the opposite way than fixed wing aircraft. the helicopter formating on the other sits higher than the "leader". Even when you are formating on a much bigger helicopter or bigger helicopter on you, with a much stronger downwash than your own, it will not interfere with the flying characteristics of your helicopter, unless you are in the hover. The forward speed blows the downwash away from the helicopter that you are formating on.

Fully agree and I did not go that way but remeber that is if it was done the correct way you described .. do it the wrong way with a "Naval Heli" of size in a small heli and you will get yourself into serious trouble.

Gunss

NoRunWayReq

17th Jan 2006, 17:01

Aerodynamically speaking a R22 has no hope flying next to an Oryx, saying that no self respecting SAAF pilot will go close enough to a R22 to cause it to flip over. If, however you fly in CT regularly, you will be aware of the crazy winds we have here. This is certainly enough cause to flip an unsuspecting student in a R22. Most high time turbine helo drivers won’t even fly near Cape Point in these winds.

Peace to the families, they have my condolences. :sad:

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 17:06

Again on the speculation side. The wind in the Helderberg has been pumping at 30-40 kts at my guestimate.

I hate to think what it could be at CapePoint today. :sad:

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 17:07

Most high time turbine helo drivers won’t even fly near Cape Point in these winds.
Peace to the families, they have my condolences. :sad:

Same thoughts NRWR ... same sad thoughts.

mauw

17th Jan 2006, 17:10

What a sad day.

Condolences to the family.

IF and I say, IF the reoprts are true that a solo student was navigating around Cape Point, then this is tantamount to culpable homicide on the part of the authorising Instructor.I've flown around there in a fixed wing, but would never consider it in a R22 under those conditions and with such little experience.

glimmerman_alpha

17th Jan 2006, 17:31

Jeeeezzzz guys, I have heard the same reports from other sources mentioning the Oryx forming then flying by then the crash......BUT I hope this is speculation and it was only a tragic "normal" accident....not that accidents are normal...

Samehere - if this offends anybody - please delete.

Condolences again to all involved:sad:

Goldfish Jack

17th Jan 2006, 18:20

Firstly condolences to all concerned.

This crash certainly raises some interesting points.

Firstly, if it was a "student cross country training flight" to quote a local radio station, does legislation not require a FPL to be filed for such a flight? As far as I can remember I thought you were compelled to file flight plans for ALL student cross country training flights - I know fixed wing pilots do, maybe I am wrong in the case of helicopters.

Secondly, and this is a general observation from a Clifton regular, who normally admires the lovely scenery at the beach (and my word there has been some quality recently), should not helicopters be fitted with flotation gear when they fly over water? I have noticed many helicopters flying around the Peninsula that do not seem to have such gear (visible) on them.

Thirdly, would it not be pertinent, in the case of a student on a training flight, when flying in such a wind prone area as Cape Point, to have a life jacket on hem, should they be forced to ditch their helicopter. The lack of suitable emergency landing areas, is well documented.

Were the student flying with one on today, have had a better chance of survival, if he had a life jacket on?

Comments?

I.R.PIRATE

17th Jan 2006, 18:27

Well, if i'm flying over any large section of water, that i cannot glide to the beach from, then I will always carry a raft, and a lifejacket. Yes I know you will probably never have the time, etc to sort them out, but for that 1 percent chance of turning it into a survivable ditching, it well worth the effort.

CoJam

17th Jan 2006, 18:40

Very Sad Day. Condolences to the loved ones.

Reports mention the wind being 25kts westerly... Now, correct me if I am wrong but is it not standard procedure to stop all training at anything above 15kts??

Helicopters are allowed to fly along the peninsula without floats if they remain safe auto-rotative distance from land.But even if you are safe auto distance at Cape Point there is no suitable landing area.

For arguments sake,please edit if offensive, if the Oryx did cause any possible damage/cause to the accident, wouldnt the pilot mention anything to the investigators?

I think this will have major effects regarding the use of floats on all helicopters around the Peninsula:uhoh:

Goldfish Jack

17th Jan 2006, 19:12

I very much doubt that the Oryx pilot was doing formation flying with the R22.
An air force pilot knows the dangers involved in formation flying and I am sure he would not just pounce on the R22 and start to fly alongside it. Rules are rules and I would like to think the Oryx pilot knows the rules iro SAAF formation flights, esp unauthorised ones with civilian a/c. I think he just happened to be passing by and is now being (incorrectly on this chat group) blamed for the accident.

One must also take into cognisense the fact that the observer said it was a naval helicopter (!). Was he qualified in saying how far apart they were. I would treat his comments iro distances with serious doubt.

As you so correctly stated CoJam, there is no safe landing area near Cape Point, so the question still remains, what was a student doing there in the first place, esp if the heli did not have floatation gear on it?

Spetsnaz

17th Jan 2006, 19:32

This is all speculation I know. Is it possible these helos weren't aware of each other and the R22 crossed his wake? How diligent are these SAAF crew in giving POSREPS & on the same frequency. In another part of the country I've seen them sail past without so much as a double-click. OK admitedly that was not the crowded peninsular, but it certainly surprised my crew.

I.R.PIRATE

18th Jan 2006, 02:11

Ok just hang on now, i know i posed this question, but only because of curiosity about the aerodynamic influences two choppers would exert over each other. Thats why right in the beginning i acknowledged the usual silly reporting, however that just got me thinking.

If you guys want to continue this thread under another heading, just let me know.

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 03:19

Well this is a report from this morning ... so again very confusing reports re the body of the pilot ?

Search to resume for missing trainee pilot

January 18, 2006, 05:30

The search for the 44-year-old trainee pilot whose helicopter crashed into the sea off Cape Point yesterday is expected to resume this morning. It was suspended last night.

The National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) says police and navy divers have already discovered pieces of the wreckage. The pilot is believed to have been alone on board the 2-seater Robertson R22 helicopter.

The accident was witnessed by a South African navy rescue vessel which rushed to the scene, but the chopper had already disappeared below the surface of the water.

The NSRI, the police diving unit, and other rescue personnel have been involved in the search so far.

SABC NEWS (http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/general/0,2172,119778,00.html)

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 03:32

Well sadly here is the name of the deceased pilot. In Afrikaans but in shortit just says that Mr Erasmus was on his first "allenvlug" -directly translated first solo. But I pressume the reporter would not know too much about that.

Again roughly translated this report (not rumours) stated that a "Military heli" flew in front (both of them quite low) and that Mr Erasmus went down low as if he wanted to do aerobatic tricks. (As I say roughly directly translated).

:sad:

Duikers sal vandag probeer om die lyk van ’n Kaapse sakeman en pa van twee seuns uit sy watergraf langs die Skiereilandse kus te haal nadat hy gister met ’n helikopter in die see neergestort het.

Die lyk van mnr. Marthinus Erasmus (40) van Plattekloof in die noordelike voorstede is vermoedelik nog verstrengel in die wrakstukke van die tweesitplek- Robinson R22-helikopter waarmee hy glo sy eerste alleenvlug onderneem het. Die uitgebreide soektog na sy lyk in die see naby Kaappunt, waaraan duikers van die polisie en vloot deelgeneem het, is gisteraand teen 20:00 ná meer as sewe uur laat vaar.

Die soektog sal vanoggend hervat word as die weer gunstig is, het mnr. Craig Lambinon, woordvoerder van die Nasionale Seereddingsinstituut (NSRI), gesê.

Erasmus se vrou, Hannelie, kuier na verneem word in die Vrystaat. Die egpaar se seuns is onderskeidelik twee en vier jaar oud.

Erasmus was volgens ’n kennis al geruime tyd ’n leerlingvlieënier en het gisteroggend die eerste alleenvlug onderneem. Hy was ’n gekwalifiseerde prokureur, maar het nie gepraktiseer nie.

Volgens mnr. Darren Zimmerman, NSRI-stasiebestuurder in Simonstad, het sowat tien mense gesien hoe die swart private helikopter omstreeks 10:15 in die see neerstort. Duikers het sowat 800 m van die kus na Erasmus se lyk en wrakstukke gesoek. ’n Proton-magnetometer, wat klein variasies in die aarde se magnetiese veld meet, is gebruik om na die wrakstukke te soek.

Volgens hom is nog net ’n helikoptersitplek en lêer met inligting oor ’n vliegtuig gevind. Hy kon geen inligting oor die oorsaak van die ongeluk gee nie.

’n Vriend van die vlieënier, wat anoniem wil bly, het by ’n uitkykpunt naby die ongelukstoneel bevestig sy vriend Erasmus was die vlieënier in die helikopter wat neergestort het. Hy wou niks meer sê nie.

Geskokte toeriste en personeel van die Tafelberg- Nasionale Park het vir etlike ure stip na die kalm see gekyk, wagtend op ’n teken of ’n liggaam wat gevind word.

Me. Helga Hill, wat die ongeluk gesien gebeur het terwyl sy en ’n groep in die park gestap het, het gesê “die hele voorval is onwerklik”.

“Dit was asof ek besig was om TV te kyk.”

Volgens die groep het twee helikopters redelik laag oor die water gevlieg. ’n Militêre helikopter het voor gevlieg, gevolg deur die Robinson R22.

Volgens me. Hilary Bryan, ’n stapper in die park, het die private helikopter skielik laer gevlieg, asof “die vlieënier akrobatiese toertjies” gaan doen.

“Dit het gelyk asof die helikopter se enjins gestop het en dit toe vertikaal met die neus in die see geduik het. Daarna was alles stil en verby.”

Volgens haar het die vlieënier(s) in die militêre helikopter verder gevlieg. Sy het die brandweer gebel.

Hill het gesê al waaraan sy nou kan dink, is die vlieënier se arme familie.

Volgens mnr. Luthando Mase, ’n bobbejaanmonitor in die park, het die helikopter twee keer in die lug gedraai en toe in die water geval. Net die waterringe was sigbaar, daarna niks.

Supt. Billy Jones, ’n polisiewoordvoerder, het gesê die vlieënier was vermoedelik die enigste aan boord die helikopter. Hy wou nie die vlieënier se naam bevestig nie.

Die Burger (http://www.news24.com/Die_Burger/Nuus/0,,4-75_1864863,00.html)

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 04:57

The english version :

Copter: Divers to recover body
18/01/2006 07:23 - (SA)

Malani Venter , Die Burger

Cape Town - Divers will try on Wednesday to recover the body of a Cape businessman and father of two sons from his watery grave along the Peninsula coast after his helicopter crashed into the sea on Tuesday.

The body of Marthinus Erasmus, 40, of Plattekloof in the northern suburbs is presumably still entangled in the wreckage of the two-seater Robinson R22 helicopter, in which he was apparently taking his first solo flight.

The extensive search for his body in the sea near Cape Point, in which police and navy divers took part, was called off on Tuesday at 20:00 after more than seven hours.

The search would resume on Wednesday morning if the weather conditions were favourable, said National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) spokesperson Craig Lambinon.

Erasmus's wife Hannelie was apparently visiting in the Free State. The couple's sons are two and four years old.

An acquaintance said Erasmus had been a pupil pilot for a considerable time and was taking his first solo flight on Tuesday. He was a qualified attorney, but did not practice.

Tourists in shock

Simon's Town NSRI station manager Darren Zimmerman said about ten people had seen the black private helicopter crash into the sea at about 10:15. Divers searched for Erasmus's body and pieces of wreckage about 800m from the coast. A magnetometer, which measures small variances in the earth's magnetic field, was used to search for the pieces of wreckage.

He said so far only a helicopter seat and a file with information about a plane had been found. He could not give any information about the cause of the accident.

One of the pilot's friends, who wishes to remain anonymous, confirmed at a look-out point near the scene of the accident that his friend Erasmus was the pilot in the helicopter that had crashed. He refused to say anything more.

Shocked tourists and staff of the Table Mountain National Park stared fixedly at the calm sea for hours, waiting for a sign of a body being found.

Helga Hill, who saw the crash happening while she and a group were walking in the park, said ''the whole accident is unreal''.

Helicopter turned twice in the air

''It was as if I was watching TV.''

The group said two helicopters were flying fairly low over the water. A military helicopter flew in front, followed by the Robinson R22.

Hiker Hilary Bryan said the private helicopter suddenly flew lower, as if ''the pilot was going to do aerobatics''.

''It looked as if the helicopter's engines stopped and then it nose-dived vertically into the sea. Then everything was quiet and gone.''

She said the pilot(s) in the military helicopter flew on.

She phoned the fire brigade.

Hill said all she could think of now was the pilot's poor family.

Park baboon monitor Luthando Mase said the helicopter turned twice in the air and then fell into the sea. Only ripples on the surface of the water could be seen, then nothing.

Police spokesperson Superintendent Billy Jones said the pilot was presumably the only one on board the helicopter. He did not want to confirm the pilot's name.

News 24 (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1864838,00.html)

Bravedave

18th Jan 2006, 07:36

According to my info there were two R22's flying together (from the same school) lead guy doing radio work. He gets back to CTi and notices his mate is missing! SAR initiated thereafter after some delay and confusion. I assume therein lies the story of the military helicopter in front - Mrs public confusing her Oryx with her R22. I have to support the view that no Oryx driver would go near an R22 - so let's wind up this pointless speculation.

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 07:44

I have to support the view that no Oryx driver would go near an R22 - so let's wind up this pointless speculation.

If the Oryx was ahead - the R22 was behind (as stated by quite a few witnesses). So it is not a matter of the Oryx going near but maybe the other way around ? :ugh:

Helifan

18th Jan 2006, 07:53

The smaller chopper suddenly flipped over twice and crashed into the sea.

Thinking about this point I am wondering whether VNE might have been exeeded which I believe has a negative aerodynamic effect in such that it can cause the aircraft to roll/flip.

Just a thought.

Bravo44

18th Jan 2006, 08:21

The R22 went down opposite Rooikrans and the Oryx was hovering at Buffels Bay +- 3Km away at the time. The Oryx did not respond to calls on 125,8. The R22 pitched foward and dived straight in.

CoJam

18th Jan 2006, 11:03

Very conflicting reports.:confused:

If the 22 were 3km away from the Oryx then why would witnesses say they(the R22 and "Naval" helicopter) were flying "close" together? Why dont the witnesses mention the other R22?Was it his first solo? If it was, why go the Cape Point route????!!!!!

Damn this is confusing!

glimmerman_alpha

18th Jan 2006, 11:45

Search for pilot continues 2006-01-18 13:48:00http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/20060118130137diver.jpg

Police and navy divers are still combing the area off Cape Point for the body of a trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash. Cape Town - Police and navy divers were still combing the area off Cape Point on Wednesday afternoon for the body of a trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash.
The man, whom Die Burger identified as Cape Town father-of-two Marthinus Erasmus, was flying alone around 10.30 on Tuesday when witnesses saw his Robinson R22 helicopter crash into the sea.

Police spokesperson Superintendent Billy Jones did not want to confirm the identity in the absence of the body and positive identification by a family member.

B Sousa

18th Jan 2006, 14:15

Rarely doe a name get mentioned prior to notification of next of Kin. When it does occur it usually requires someone in the Police process to get their hands slapped.
I wouldnt be surprised on the method used to obtain the name would have been to call the family and asked if the person was home yet.........Morons.
Since many have posted here and the King of Cut and Paste has left his sources. We can assume at this point an inexperienced Pilot got in over his head and the military aircraft had nothing to do with it..........
I guess some of the more sensitive here would call that speculation. Lets see how close it comes.....
It does not make it any easier on the family

Deanw

18th Jan 2006, 14:37

Just heard on the radio that the body of the pilot has been braught ashore and that the wreckage has been placed on the tug Smit Amandla.

RIP.

Heli_Sticktime

18th Jan 2006, 15:19

There are some very worrying things coming out of this tradgedy, as a Heli pilot in CT I regularly hire-and-fly at most of the flight schools here. All of them have the same rules for student pilots:

1. No solo flying when the wind is above 15kts
2. Solo flights for students to the GF area only, ie Delta 200 unless on a specific instructor approved solo cross country in which a flight plan should be filed.
3. No flight over water, period - as a solo student

The next question is who was he following....or if he wasn't following an instructor in another aircraft who in their right mind gave him permission to fly in the Cape Point area where the wind is rarely below 30kts.

And, not to start anything else but just a thought, when you call ATC for clearance at CPTINTL you state that you are a student pilot on a cross country, normally they would be sceptical of you being allowed to fly off to Cape Point and would contact the school....

All kinds of things happen here, what about his life insurance, 2 kids and a wife, will they pay out? I doubt it, as far as I know most of them don't give you life cover for flying until you have finished your PPL:ugh:

And the AC owner, how does he feel being about 2 bar out of pocket:{ will his insurance cough up?

A very tragic event from all angles, condolences to the family:( I hope we get to the bottom of all of this!!

herindoors

18th Jan 2006, 15:40

Both the chopper and body found at 15.2o this afternoon.

Spetsnaz

18th Jan 2006, 16:36

3. No flight over water ... Well according to my chart, he would have had to fly seaward of the nature reserve in order to avoid FAR144 (2000ALT/GND).

organ donor

18th Jan 2006, 17:02

..or fly above 2000ft.

Goldfish Jack

18th Jan 2006, 17:04

There is a procedure for us contacting the flying school if a pilot flies around the Capew Point???? Must admit I don't know anything about this one. News to me and I do work tower every now and then.

Maybe it is in the SOPs and I have not read it, but I don't think so - would be interested to hear where you got that info from Heli_Sticktime.

One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on trainging flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example. Approved areas are there for reasons. One wonders if this occurence would have happened if the student was doing (apparant formation flying) training in an approved area?

Heli_Sticktime

18th Jan 2006, 17:35

Sorry Goldfish Jack, was not implying that it was a SOP, just affirming what you say in your next paragraph -

One thing that does create alarms bells is when people want to go on training flights in areas other that approved training areas - and here is a prime example.

You guys know what's normal practise for the flight schools, but maybe in this instance there were two AC(as speculated earlier) and that the lead AC doing the radio work was an instructor and that's possibly why no questions were raised at time of departure?

canthover

19th Jan 2006, 06:34

If this was indeed a first solo flght - then surely the guy does a circuit, lands, his instructor gets back in and they go drink tea or juice or something.

Then onto three hours of solo consolidation before being let loose to the GF - or has the whole thing changed in the last few years.

Maybe the first solo thing is just journo garbage!:confused:

MysticFlyer

19th Jan 2006, 07:02

First solo, but that should keep him in the circuit off course, or has it changed.

Instructor, which school can afford instructors flying "naval" maschines in a leading position? He should surely then be following the student, or what use has that then being in front of him.

ATC tapes may reveal something, I'm sure, not the RT ones alone. What was in the area, in the air at that time, resembling eyewitness (plural, albeit one was protecting the baboons from the tourists) accounts.

This will end the speculation. Otherwise someones conscience should wake up as even an Oryx has more than one crew member.

Waiting for the truth to reveal itself.:cool:

Heli_Sticktime

19th Jan 2006, 07:35

This mornings Cape Times has some new "facts" and a picture on page 3, turns out it wasn't his first solo

glimmerman_alpha

19th Jan 2006, 07:52

CAPE TIMES

Police recovered the wreck of the helicopter and the body of the pilot yesterday, on the second day of the dramatic search for the helicopter that crashed into the sea on Tuesday near Buffels Bay off Cape Point.

The body of the pilot, 41-year-old Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus from Plattekloof, was found outside the wreckage.

On Tuesday a black Robinson 22 helicopter, being piloted by Erasmus, a trainee pilot, was flying with another helicopter in the Cape Point area.

About 800m from the shore Erasmus's helicopter "began to lose height and nose-dived into the sea", said eye-witness Sue Dalrymple.

Navy divers, police divers, Metro and Disaster Management helped in Tuesday's search for the plane which started at about 1pm and was called off at about 8pm.

Police spokesman, Billy Jones, said divers yesterday morning went into the water at 7am but had to suspend the search due to bad conditions. Later, the search was resumed and the wreck was located.

According to Erasmus's partner in his commercial law firm, Riaan Marx, Erasmus, who had two sons aged two and four, was a conservative and precise man who loved flying.

"He had being flying solo for at least three weeks," he said.

Marx said the Erasmus family would like to thank everyone involved in the search.

"The three of us in our partnership were like the three musketeers, we were good partners but also great friends. We will miss him," said Marx.

National Sea Rescue Institute (NSIR), who co-ordinated the search on Tuesday, assisted in the search yesterday.

NSRI spokesman, Craig Lambinon, said the wreck was located at 3pm 20m below the surface, and the pilot's body was lifted out of the wreck. The body was handed over to the police.

The divers used airbags to lift the wreck to the surface.

The helicopter wreck was loaded on board a Smit Amandla salvage vessel assisting in the search. The vessel was expected to arrive in Cape Town harbour by 10 last night. From there the helicopter wreck would be handed over to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), who were on scene throughout the day's search. The CAA would investigate the wreck to establish the cause of the accident.

Lambinon said the Council of Geosciences and members of the Marine Geosciences unit on the search boat helped find the wreck with a side-scan sonar, which allowed them to see the bottom of the ocean.

CoJam

19th Jan 2006, 13:04

The Argus reported this afternoon that 3 R 22's left for a training flight from the WATERFRONT!!! Since when do solo Nav students depart from the V & A?? Over Water, without floats...!

Excuse my ignorance but that is just plain stupid! (If the reports are correct)

I hope we can get a statement out of the training school to indicate what the real facts are so that the conflicting reports can be stopped...

organ donor

19th Jan 2006, 13:45

Sonar spots pilot and chopper

January 19, 2006

By Norman Joseph & Fouzia van der Fort

Advanced technology helped locate the wreckage and the body of the trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash off Cape Point two days ago.

A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m metres from the shore.

Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.

The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.

National Sea Rescue Institute spokesman Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.

"A relatively large area had been searched."

The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.
Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.

The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.

It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.

Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.

On Tuesday the sophisticated sonar equipment arrived.

Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.

Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.

Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus yesterday.

His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.

organ donor

19th Jan 2006, 13:53

http://vne-resource.iol.co.za/6/picdb/e/2/70344

BAKELA

19th Jan 2006, 17:58

Condolences to the family and friends.

Remember, at the end of the day, anybody involved with aviation in this country (SA) is family (like to know it or not). We might like to believe we (the SA aviation industry) are Gods gift to wings and blades but the industry in this country is actually very, very small. Whether it's four jets, twin turbines, a piston or a Rotax or nothing (for the glider/paraglider etc guys).

From what I've read on this thread and heard from a Cape Townian yesterday, I can only comment as follows, keeping in mind that we are ALL commenting with very little FACTS.

If this was a student pilot, management of the school should not have allowed flying in the prevailing weather conditions (as qouted on here) - (the area - offshore- where the student flew is thus not relevant).

I agree with GFJ that ANY student cross country flight should file a flight plan, day night whatever. Fact is scarce - was this a cross country?

The NAVAL helicopter COULD have been an Oryx 3 km (?) away. To the unindated (non-flying types), the distance (size of an Oryx vs a R22) coupled to parralax error (speed) it could have seemed that the two helo's were in formation.

Remember, the worst eye witness in any flying accident is a knowledgeable one (he/she who knows about flying - they draw their own "knowledgeable" conclusions). The normal person on the street usually carries it across better - as it happens (except for the smoke and the explosion when it happens on land as that is SOP for any flying accident for the unindated). Therefor, from a very UNINFORMED PPruner, judging from the eyewitness reports as conveyed to us in the press (suspect immediately), things seemed to have happenned very quickly when the aircraft went down. It could have been one of many things...think about it...gearbox...tail rotor failure...medical condition...gusts/wind...the list is endless. We can all speculate...lets wait and see.

I can just add that I hope the CAA does the investigation properly as any accident which ends up in the sea (no matter how deep) where there's no FDR/CVR and no crew members to give an account of events is very difficult. Have t-shirt and know of a guy that did an excellent job on a similar (it was a jet though) accident many moons ago.

Teignmouth

19th Jan 2006, 19:55

Could the "military helicopter" have been our old friend, the Huey? I cannot imagine that a SAAF helicopter would either fly with a civvie, or allow itself to be followed by a civvie, no matter the circumstances.

organ donor

19th Jan 2006, 20:11

I really wouldn't read too much into the press reports, seeing that they are so obviously riddled with errors.

Gunship

20th Jan 2006, 03:34

There was a lot more written in local newspapers yesterday - especially witness accounts.

As we all know : They can not count as reliable but all of them have at least another chopper nearby of Naval / Military background.

What also comes out very clear is that the doomed Robbie took a sudden nose dive / aerobatic manoevre / slump forward.

Possible heart attack from Mr Erasmus ?

So many possibilities .. so many vacuums to fill.

The autopsy is today as far as I know.

Gunship

20th Jan 2006, 03:39

Advanced technology helped locate the wreckage and the body of the trainee pilot who plunged to his death in a helicopter crash off Cape Point two days ago.

A side-scan sonar helped rescuers find Cornelius Marthinus Erasmus, 41, and the Robinson R22 privately owned helicopter, which nose-dived into the sea about 800m from the shore.

Erasmus, a partner in a law firm, was on his second solo flight.

The Council for GeoScience provided the sonar equipment used in the hunt.

National Sea Rescue Institute spokesperson Craig Lambinon said: "The sonar made it possible to find the wreckage and the body in a short space of time.

The wreckage and pieces of debris are to be sent to the Civil Aviation Authority, which is investigating the incident.

Erasmus was flying with two other trainee pilots who were some distance away.

The three helicopters belonged to the Starlite helicopter company, based near the city airport.

It is understood the three helicopters took off from the V&A Waterfront. The other two trainee pilots returned safely but Erasmus did not return.

Police and divers failed to locate the wreckage in two days of searching at the spot where witnesses had seen the craft go down.

The sophisticated sonar equipment arrived on Tuesday.

Rescuers believe that Erasmus was trapped inside the helicopter as it crashed into the water.

Erasmus, who lived in Plattekloof with his wife and two children aged two and four, had decided to take a piloting course at Starlite several months ago.

Despite repeated approaches, senior staff at the company refused to speak to the Cape Argus about Erasmus on Wednesday.

His wife and children were in Bloemfontein on holiday when the incident happened.

How the Wreck was found : IOL (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060119101926957C153397)

helipilotincapetown

20th Jan 2006, 08:56

I have been following the press the past few days and can only say that they are a bunch of idiots. I have been personally involved with this accident and am well aware of the FULL FACTS that are known so far. (pending CAA and Coroner report).

Noone from the police, the helicopter operators or owners have made any statements and literally most of what has been reported can only have been made up. This has caused great distress to all involved especially all of the rediculoius reports on Tuesday claiming that the body was found when clearly it wasn't. This can only have been made-up/guessed by the press.

Talks of first or second solo flights are completely rediculous, aerobatics, strong wind, owners details, military involvement, flying close together, three helicopters and pilots, taking off from the Waterfront, etc... all entire hogwash. In fact about the only thing they got right was the fact that the accident was near Cape Point.

This was my first close experience of a true life accident with parallel press coverage and always wondered why the press had such a bad name. Now I know... never believe ANYTHING you read. They can only be making it up or guessing... it calls into question literally everything I will read in the 'respected press' in future. The Cape Times article on Thursday was however fairly accurate. The article quoted above from the Argus is so wrong on so many points its rediculous. The reporters would be more at home with the baboons they obviously interviewed to get their story.

Mr Erasmus is one of the greatest guys any of us have ever had the pleasure of knowing and was a meticulous and thorough man with an absolute heart of gold, a wonderful father of two and although still a PPL student was a very capable, confident and precise heli pilot and was flying in conditions well within his capabilities.

The facts will out... but in the meantime, believe absolutely nothing you read. Noone of any importance will be saying anything until the full official conclusions are drawn.

This is a massive loss for everyone surrounding the accident and the world has lost a truly great man whose passion for flying and life was unrivalled.

Rest in peace 'pallie'.

farmpilot

20th Jan 2006, 10:10

Well said!

Spetsnaz

20th Jan 2006, 11:22

I have been following the press the past few days and can only say that they are a bunch of idiots.

I think that's a little unfair. True, most of the copy has been flawed. The eyewitness accounts also do not seem detailed enough to go by. (ie. no height, proper description of helicopters etc.)

When every potential source clams up, the reporter has to get the news from somewhere. Flight schools often have rules about disclosing information. I don't believe the press would make things up. They may even have sourced some dodgy information from another pilot.:rolleyes: As aviators, we are curious as to why this dreadful accident happened, and it is natural to have our own view. After all, we analyse past accidents to teach new commercial pilots. These are published long after the event. I would guess there will also be a long wait before the CAA are ready to publish.

A helo pilot who sees a senior lawyer - described as "meticulous" - losing his life would definitely want to know as much as possible in order to prevent another incident. Until we do, we can only speculate and read between those sensationalist lines.

CoJam

20th Jan 2006, 12:52

I have one question:

Why have the training school not give a short statement saying that the accident is currently under investigation and they can not comment blah blah.....

But they keep on dodging the press and that, I believe, gives the school a bad name in the media's eyes.A short statement will ease the pressure on them and they can focus on the other issues, of which there are plenty...

Just my thoughts - whatever its worth:bored:

foreigner

20th Jan 2006, 13:15

I would imagine that until the CAA and police have finished conducting their enquires the company is obliged not to make a statement. The Press and some ppruners try fill in the gaps with speculation, and as a result, come up with some hairbrained and often offensive conclusions, as we have seen. What happened will, no doubt, come out soon enough.

Voel

20th Jan 2006, 13:45

The reason why the press "always sees an explosion" before an aircraft accident, is that everybody is keeping the facts from them. A respected journalist (Oom Hannes) once said to us that he will always get some information, even going through the back door, or climbing thru the window at night. But this information is second or third hand. Being involved with most aircraft accidents north of the Oranje River, I learned to give the facts to the media and not hide any information from them. Do not speculate though.

Goldfish Jack

20th Jan 2006, 16:43

I remember a few years ago, going to a workshop/presentation by SAA personnel on what they had learnt from the Helderberg disaster.

One of the things they stated was to be honest and lay the facts up front to stop any press speculation. It is important to have the press on your side and to use them to your advantage - not to fight them.

I believe that Starlite should have issued a statement straight away and then kept the press informed of what was being done further down the line. This would have stopped the rumour mongering.

This is certainly 1 lesson that all clubs, small charter companies, etc should learn from this accident. Put in place some sort of precedure for the CEO, CHief pilot, chairman, etc to be avail, or their designate, to speak to the press and to issue a statement straight away.

One can only speculate on whether such companies have such procedures. One hopes they will look at this aspect of their company - a lesson for all companies in fact.

Gunship

20th Jan 2006, 17:35

A respected journalist (Oom Hannes) once said to us that he will always get some information, even going through the back door, or climbing thru the window at night.

Hey Voel I remember Oom Hannes from the Bush War days ... sjees he gave everybody carrots those days ... back page of the Windhoek Observer if I remember correct ?

Lots of memories but nearly 30 years ago :p:p:p

Is he still alive Voel ?

Sorry a bit of the topic ...

LOAC

21st Jan 2006, 10:00

Still no news or statement from the operator?

MysticFlyer

21st Jan 2006, 20:27

Banana's, aardappels on the hand-out? Paralax nogal, ending with the Edwardian III, or was that the II as a comparison to what?

Some posts, must say....shame, some parties is really doing patchwork. Many mysteries solved on the pprune. Best posts are the ones discrediting the eyewitness accounts as speculation, 3clicks way, were the tapes impounded, but then again...

RescueDiver

21st Jan 2006, 22:34

my post was aimed at dispelling some of the myths, rumours and wild speculations doing the rounds. I stuck my head out because I felt that for you, as "professional pilots", the information (although still "officially unreleased") I posted here (from first hand involvement in the recovery) would provide some factual insights. Sadly I see that for some it provided only a convenient "springboard" for further rumour-mongering and utterly unsubstantiated speculations. As this is completely contrary to what I intended I have deleted my posting.

SortieIII

22nd Jan 2006, 05:32

Thanks for the info, RescueDiver!

Well done to you and your team.

I.R.PIRATE

22nd Jan 2006, 08:28

Hi there Rescue Diver, you can send your pics to: [email protected], and I will post them up here for you as soon as I get them.

Shrike200

22nd Jan 2006, 09:46

Always fantastic to have actual details rather than speculation, thanks for that, and also for a tough job well done. Kudos to you RescueDiver.

glimmerman_alpha

23rd Jan 2006, 14:10

Anybody got news re: the final autopsy report.Latest speculation is that he died of a heart attack, apparently he had one couple of years back...

Does anybody know anyone who knew a family member that knew a guy that worked for the coroner? Would be interesteting to get that report. It will stop speculation of accident cause, if it was a heart attack...

Spetsnaz

23rd Jan 2006, 16:11

Anybody got news re: the final autopsy report.Latest speculation is that he died of a heart attack, apparently he had one couple of years back...
Where has this interesting snippet come from? If he passed his medical (incl. ECG) then this is unlikely dont you think!?

glimmerman_alpha

23rd Jan 2006, 16:54

Spetsnaz,

As I said it is unconfirmed speculation a.k.a rumour but it came from a source close to the investigation....

Unlikely maybe....but not impossible.

MysticFlyer

24th Jan 2006, 06:04

glimmer man....

One thing to try and get to the bottom of the investigation, but leave the probablities aside. Granted this is still all rumour, but we have seen previously how accident investigations have been mishandled too, not that I think this is the case here.

Eyewitness accounts or even video footage is usually very usefull in compiling an accident report, something to help prevent accidents from reacurring, the main focus thereof. To see the levels of the investigation you are now dropping to is noteworthy...but usually these areas of speculation are delved into after no probable cause are found.

Noteworthy too to notice who is moving speculation away from the eyewitnessed second heli, paralax et al!

Any statement from the SAAF/government yet regarding that other heli? I know that if I would've been so close to another a/c on my solo nav flights anywhere, may have given me a heart-attack too, in all seriousness!

Why do certain fools feel they should do a personal cover-up and discredit or misdirect the attention of the investigation here on a rumour network, while eyewitness accounts is NO rumour!!!!!!!!!