European Flight Training (EFT)

[p.savage]

Every FTO has been put through the treadmill of the good and bad to pretty and ugly.

European Flight Training, Fort Pierce Florida.

Can you comment on this FTO? If so please do so. It will benefit many of us considering them sooner or later.

The web site is pretty productive and has excellent detail about everything, but personal views are much more honest.

Put in your pennies worth!

Paul

[Megaton]

Accom was crap. Cockroach infected. No sheets. Missing light bulbs. Truly awful. I moved into a hotel after a week.

Aircraft were generally mediocre. They had only one Arrow for the complex ac training and its serviceability was up and down like the proverbial whore's whatsits.

However, the standard of instruction was excellent and, overall, I would recommend it. Also, owners and management were generally fair and if you had a gripe they were usually willing to listen and sort it.

If the ac serviceability holds up and you get one of the decent apartments, of which I understand there are some, then I would commend them to you. My CPL examiner was very happy with my GFT and I can only suggest that this was based on the training I had had with EFT.

[p.savage]

Ham,

I am very sorry to hear that you had a bad experience at EFT. I plan to rent a the Heatherway apartments 5 miles away, because I have company coming with me for a year.

However, I am very gald to hear that you felt the quality of instruction is excellent. That is definately a bonus.

Thanks for your input.

Paul

[Sentenza]

Let's see...

I converted my FAA PPC to JAA with them; did hours building with them; did my MEP(L) with them; did my CPL with them; and started my IR with them (finished that in the UK).

Got first-time passes for everything, and attribute that completely to the very high standard of instruction (and in the case of the IR also of course to the equally high standard at ETA Bournemouth).

Basic training is done in C172s, which are fairly well worn, but far from decrepit. I would call them average flight school stock. There are no goodies like GPS or A/P (gasp!). 100-hour checks are religiously followed. Thus, unscheduled maintenance (read: unservicabilities) doesn't happen any more or less often than with any other plane of similar vintage. When unscheduled mx does need to be performed, there are quite often enough planes left to take up the slack.

Complex training is done in a single P28R. The fact that there is only one obiously does present a problem when an unservicability occurs. Even so, I finished my CPL in four weeks last November (lost one week due to weather).

ME training is done in BE76s, for which generally the same things can be said as for the Cessnas above.

Accom for me was quite good. I had sheets, but no roaches. Clean; TV in every room; large fridge, large kitchen. Not luxurious, but overall quite good. Well worth the money. I rented a car for USD 100.00 a week through neighbouring flight school Ari Ben Aviator (an FAA outfit), which turned out to be a gas-guzzling, A/C-less Cadillac. I shared with my roomie, so really only paid USD 50.00 per week.

I whole-heartedly recommend EFT for all your flight training needs. Instruction is excellent. Weather is generally very good (try doing a CPL in four weeks in November in the UK). Aircraft are adequate for the task. Staff are friendly and helpful. Other miscellaneous items (accom., surroundings) are adequate as well.

I can't really recommend EFT for hours-building, though (even though I did build some hours with them myself). The reason being that their aircraft are almost always booked by students, and that, when it comes to scheduling, students take precedence over hour-builders. Therefore, it can become rather tedious to build 100 hours, if you can only fly, say, two to four hours a day.

So, ask yourself what you want and need:

If you want top-notch instruction from people who talk to you on a first-name basis, and who have an excellent training record to boot, then EFT is for you.

If you don't care whether your instructor only knows your student ID number, and you would rather do your training in brand-spanking new airplanes that are equipped with all the nice stuff you'll never get to use in your training, then maybe one of the big-name flight schools like Flight Safety is the right choice for you.

If all you need to do is build some hours, then find someplace where you can rent a plane at a low block rate and with which you can then fly all over the country.

Now... hope I didn't forget anything.

HTH

Mike

[quackers]

HAM,

I UNDERSTAND THAT EFT USE ACCOMODATION IN VERO BEACH AND NEAR FORT PIERCE - WHICH ONE WERE YOU REFERRING TO. I'M GOING THERE IN A FEW WEEKS SO ANY PRIOR KNOWLEDGE WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL. HOW MUCH DID THEY CHARGE AT THE HOTEL YOU EVENTUALLY STAYED AT? CHEERS.

[Megaton]

I had my wife and son with me so we stayed at a rather smart hotel by the beach (can't remember the name). Accom I had was in Ft Pierce. It did have a tv but no aerial (hence no picture) and the fridge had cockroaches in as well. I come from a military background so used to slumming it but I was paying for this!

[quackers]

Ham,

Thanks for that. I'm apparently staying at Vero Beach so I just hope its better than the one you stayed in. I think I'll insist on an inspection before parting with any cash up front. How have you fared since your courses - any work? or is it as dire in the States as over here (I hear KLM in Holland are shedding more jobs!)

[noralflyer]

I think the roach infested accom everyone is talking about is the lovely Virginia apartments in Ft Piss. Accom is now in quite nice spanking new 3 bed houses in vero beach.
As for the caddies, what more do you want for $100 a week?

BTW the instruction was quite good too!

[Island Hopper]

Thanks for the detailed opinions Sentenza.
I am probably going to EFT in a few weeks time.

2 things I would like people to comment on:

1) I am very surprised to see that it took you 4 weeks to get your CPL done, due to a week of bad weather.
Is it unrealistic of me to plan 3 weeks, or were you very unlucky?
(I plan to be there in July & possibly into August)

2) Can anyone here comment on how EFT compares to the others (eg. IFTA), based on first hand experience.

Thanks,

IH

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Training in a few weeks

I note that you are from N. Ireland in which case do not plan on a couple of weeks to complete your training unless you already hold a student training visa (M1, F1, or J1).

Due to the summer, there are many more students applying for visas whether for holiday, business or study; due to this there is a 5 weeks waiting period in the UK to get an Interview which was only 2 weeks before. THe US Embassy in N. Ireland is definitely more speedy, but I suggest that you check before making any firm plans. EFT will be able to help you with this.

As for choice, the only places I would recommend are EFT or Comair for CPL training.

[Island Hopper]

Thanks for pointing that out to me, although I have already booked my interview.

I aggree with you generally, that it can take quite a while to get a visa sorted at this time of year.
However I think you have slightly exaggerated the times involved.
(some of your facts are fiction!)

Yesterday I booked an interview at the embassy in London for one and a half weeks time.

IH

(also not from N.Ireland, but S.England!!!)

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Glad to hear that you have an appointment earlier than thought.

You must be a lucky one as I know two people that booked an appointment last week who couldn't get an appointment in London until July 5th (Pure Fact!).....so what do you know that they don't....spill the beans to help all!

[Island Hopper]

No secrets or anything, just call up the £1.30 per minute number!

Initially they gave me a date for 3 weeks time. When I expressed an interest for an earlier appointment, I was advised to call back in a day or so when some more dates were to be released.

Back on to the topic: Anything wrong (apart from accommodation) with EFT?

IH

[Megaton]

If you're looking to be critical, having only one complex single airframe is a potential problem. N2878U went u/s for 5 days halfway through my CPL which meant we went back to the 172s. In the end it didn't make a difference but it could have done. If you want a positive perspective you could say that maintenance issues are taken seriously.

[Gazeem]

Hp,

" I come from a military background so used to slumming it but I was paying for this!"

Military?? When did you change service?

Used to slumming it?? What's that then? 4 star hotels? :D

[Megaton]

Gazeem,

Chortle, chortle. I haven't laughed so much since ......I heard you were instructing. And I do seem to remember you discussing a change of uniform yourself?

[Sentenza]

Island Hopper:

I'm not sure what to tell you. Sure you can do a CPL in 3 weeks' time. In fact, just before I went there, there was one (or two?) guy there who did his/their CPL in 3 weeks. That said, I myself would definitely plan to spend 4 weeks for the course, simply because things can go wrong. The weather can turn bad, or the a/c might go tech. Or, God forbid, the course might prove to be more difficult than anticipated. Or, even worse, you might not get a first-time pass.

Sorry, but I have no first-hand experience with IFTA, so can't help you there.

HTH,

Mike

[FlyingForFun]

Sentenza - unless I've misunderstood, the 3 weeks which Island Hopper was talking about was nothing to do with the CPL course. It was the initial estimate from the US Embassy for the waiting time for his Visa interview. :confused:

The length of time the course takes is a completely different question!

FFF
-------------

[Sentenza]

FFF,

I was referring to IH's question from the 7th, 15:05.

Mike

[Island Hopper]

Yeah, I was referring to the amount of time one should allow to complete a JAA CPL in Florida at this time of year.

EFT say 3 weeks is no problem.

If you said 2 hours per day is a sensible amount (or would it be ok to do more than that?) then assuming you fly 6 days per week, that's about 24 hours in 2 weeks.
Surely you would easily complete in 3 weeks???
Even with a bit of bad weather or extra training.

There must be about 10 hours of possible flying per day (in terms of daylight) at this time of year - so maybe you could do a bit more than 2 hours on some days.

Would it be silly to only allow 3 weeks, Sentenza has suggested 4.

Other opinions?

IH

[Bubbletoes]

If that is the Mike who i think it is, ummmm You did NOT get a first time pass in your CPL??? I believe you got only got a partial pass and had to go up again with the examiner a day or so later???

But to add to the stockpile on EFT opinion, yes i would definately say they had good instructors. They got me through my time there. The accommodation was excellant the houses in vero beach were brand new and spotless. It had all the basic needs and requirements and if there was anything else that you needed just go talk to peggy. The only downside is that now and then she would pop by the house so you had to make sure it was clean or you might get a little telling off. Although, sometimes it depends if you live with a pig or not.

One of the big down points i will make sure to say is that make sure you get any money left on your account back. It takes forever to get it back off them, i had to wait over 3mths to get cash back from them and it wasnt everything, i am still waiting for the rest of it and i have sent emails in which everytime i am told it is on its way. Be persistant in that area.

Also be sure when it comes to the ground briefings that you make sure how long it lasts for, once i was going to be charged for a 1hr briefing when it only took 10 mins! keep an eye on your watch and then check your invoice and make sure no mistakes are there. It is very easily done and i know it has happened with others. i dont think they purposely mean to do that but it is easy to do so write down how much time each ground briefing lasts for and check what the instructor writes down.

But i had a good time there, the planes all did what they were supposed to do and i had no problems with the ac apart from a complete electrical failure once but i got down safe and sound. If you keep an eye for those points you should have a good experience.

[miss magenta]

Hi all;

I did my CPL with EFT last year. Excellent instructors (hope you read this Phil)! and then went on to do my MEP and FI. Returned at the beggining of this year for IR training. Aircraft availability was never too much of a problem, at the worse a couple of time changes. On my CPL got to fly twice a day, 6 days a week. FI was great fun and all done in record time. It is hard work to do a CPL in three weeks but completely possible. I got a first time pass in everything I did there.
Instructors are great and the whole atmosphere is friendly and relaxed but always proffesional.
As for the accomodation, the Vero Beach apartments that are now used are all new and well equipped. Three to a house and its who you share with that makes the difference. Initially I stayed at Port Fierce! and although the place was shabby and ill eqipped, everything I asked for was provided. (Iron and sheets and similar stuff). They dont use them anymore I believe.
If you decide to go over then I think you will be happy with them. I have been through a few schools and they are still my top favorites.
Good luck.

[FlyBoyRussell]

Just found out that EFT have ceased operations for the time being at their school in the UK.

According to sources, this was due to having no instructors.

EFT had moved their IR students to Pilot Training College but left after having problems with the instructors there.

EFT's students are now based at Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training.

(Someone at EFT may like to comment on this to confirm authenticity)

They are however, still advertising training at Shoreham so maybe they have resolved the situation)

[VFE]

That is a shame.

Things were shaping up for that base to be very successful and they certainly had the market covered for IR training down there. Anyone know what has happened to Mike Smart as a result of this?

Hope things work out for those concerned. In hindsight, although IR training is a very stressful time which lead to some initial criticism, I look back with fondness my time spent training there as their first SHM based student.

The instruction by the above mentioned CFI was fantastic.

VFE.

[Kan]

Yes can only agree with Vfe - I did my IR their with him, no problems at all.

With regards to Mike Smart, I know he is instructing for BCFT in Bournemouth now. No doubt about him, he is a top instructor, and even though I didn't do my IR there, I have only heard good things about them.

[cosworth211]

bugger it.

I start the APP with EFT in 6 weeks, I only live half hour from Shoreham. Better start saving some extra fuel tokens....

[2close]

On a positive note, no positioning flight for exam. BCFT and the CAA Flight Test Centre are in the same building and share the same parking apron.

[cosworth211]

I was at Sussex Flying Club today, the original base of EFT UK, and can confirm that it has moved to Bournemouth.

[DangerZone]

I have been a student at EFT in Florida and was very happy with the instruction.

If they have relocated to Bournemouth then the APP students will have a great finishing location for their IR.

Anyone know where at Bournemouth Airport EFT UK is based now, and who the instructors there are?

[BillieBob]

Anyone know where at Bournemouth Airport EFT UK is based now, and who the instructors there are? EFT UK are not based anywhere at Bournemouth. EFT are sub-contracting the last part of their IR training to Bourenmouth Commercial Flight Training. The instructors will be those that BCFT choose to allocate to the task.

[VFE]

Should also add that BCFT are a fantastic school too.

VFE.

[alastair1982]

Hello

I'm currently lookig to begin training to be a pilot and have been recommended a place in Florida called Eurpoean Flight Training.

Does anyone know anything about it? Or has anyone been there to train?

Additionally, i'm looking to secure some financing. Does anyone have any advice when trying to go about this?

Alastair

[cosworth211]

I fly their to undertake their APP on 1st sept. Most information about them can be found on www.flyeft.com.

As for finance, I have a HSBC proff studies loan, though I understand this is now withdrawn for new applicants. Try other banks, though you may need a property to secure the funds (my loan is secured against my parents house)

Hope this helps.

[ivierre]

I came across this flying school's ad., went to its webpage and found that it claims that their programs are so different and claims that job is guaranteed....as a flight instructor.

They are saying that their program is so different from OAT...etc.

I am thinking of getting into a flight school but I am wondering is this school really so different or this is just the same as OAT that "job with an airline is not guaranteed"?
:confused:

thanks...

[BigGrecian]

Read the website and the job is subject to meeting certain professional and personal standards. EFT's instructors are all very good and they will want to maintain that reputation, however given the standard of instruction as long as you meet the grade....
Read into it what you will..

[poonta]

Hi!

Im looking around for a good flight school. Though i cant find anything (search function not working properly) about EFT (www.flyeft.com (http://www.flyeft.com)).
So is there anyone here who has undertaken their APP program, or someone who knows someone etc. etc. Would like to know as much as possible of that school. :)


Regards! / Pontus

[poonta]

Im sure someone has some info about this school :)


Regards!

[Farrell]

Hello Poonta

There is a mine of information to be found on this forum about EFT.
You will find good reports and bad reports - just like you will for every major Florida based flight school.

I'm not sure if the Search function is working fully at the moment (maybe a moderator could answer that) but you should try and search under "EFT".

I have trained at EFT and have already commented on my experiences. A quick search will also uncover that.

Best of luck with your training.

Farrell

[poonta]

Well, i've been trying to search for info on EFT here, but the search engine returns blank (when will it be fixed?).

Will continue! :)

Regards!

[bfato]

The new search doesn't seem to like 3 characters. In a game full of TLAs that's unfortunate. But forget searching for 'EFT' or 'CPL' and look instead for 'Florida' or 'Commercial'.

[llesson]

Did my CPL there, very happy with the instruction and got through in minimum hours.

[EIDW RJ85]

I done my PPL there and had no problems bar some admin Glitches. And going back again in april to do Hour Building and most likely will continue my training with them till the end!!

I believe they have taken over the housing on the Pan Am campus now so the housing dificulties seem to have been sorted!!!

[poonta]

Did my CPL there, very happy with the instruction and got through in minimum hours.

Ok, so you do not have the 1500 hours as stated on the website?

Well, to sum it up, it seems too me that the eft is porbably the best choice if one goes to the states for the whole package :)

I would like to hear from somebody who has unstructed there and has 1500hours or soo...step forward...


Kind regards from a cold Sweden, -4C.

/Pontus

[Mordacai]

[QUOTE=poonta]
I would like to hear from somebody who has unstructed there and has 1500hours or so step forward../QUOTE]

Oh OK, that would be me then.

[Frank Furillo]

Did my CPL, ME and some of my IR over at EFT, very happy with it all and would recomend them to anybody. In fact I was a student of Mordacai. Any questions feel free to PM me.
Frank

[ORBITAL]

Done my cpl at EFT v good.
Mordacai 'Any Ice ?' you got a phone number yet ?

[poonta]

Oh OK, that would be me then.


Check PM :)

/Regards

[DodgeG]

Hi Poonta, I was there last year but just for the CPL.. thought they were very well organised and did what I needed to do !..Good luck
Dodge

[portsharbourflyer]

Good for getting a JAA modular CPL and MEP done quickly. But for an IR you are better off doing an FAA IR with Ari Ben Aviatior and doing a conversion back in Sweden or the UK. If you are looking to instruct out there you would be better signing up for the Ari Ben Aviator FAA instructor program. Ari Ben is the US company which EFT leases its planes from. Ari Ben is one of the cheapest schools in the States, but if you can ride some of the short comings at this place then it is does offer very good value in terms of building multi engine time. I wish I had known about the Ari Ben scheme before I did my CPL training.

[AlternativeProcedure]

Have to agree with portsharbourflyer on that one, those multi hours are really important in getting that first job. But anyways, its not about Aviator vs EFT. Regarding the quality at EFT, its OK I suppose, you go through the courses and finish within the time frame they promise which I must say is very good. I really wouldn't recommend them for hour building though, a/c availability was a nightmare when I was there, the prices weren't exactly cheap either (for American standards of course).

Oh two more things, watch your account outgoings like a hawk(they have the most complicated way of presenting simple accounts), and try not to be in a position where you have alot of money with the school when your finishing your training, it will be a whole different ball game trying to get it back. These are my experiences and those of my colleagues when I was training!!!

EFT got me through the CPL and MEP exactly as promised for a very good price(by European Standards), the small problems were simply in administration and sometimes money driven attitude. Good luck with whatever you do.

[leonsniff]

ya im interested in going to eft as well to do an app but cant get any info on eft from this website-the search engine cannot find any eft based comments. Any one any ideas? Or comments on eft and the app course they offer?

[tigermagicjohn]

The school seems intresting, anybody with comments of this school please!

[LH2]

What I'd like to know is, with a CPL/IR/ME in view, what would the difference/advantages be between doing the (JAA) PPL with them, or back in Europe (€5,710.- (http://www.jipaviacio.com/english/school1.html) at Empuriabrava--need to find out if they offer instruction in English, though).

Wouldn't it be a bit too much of a hassle having to go all the way across the pond, deal with visas, etc., just for a lowly PPL and savings of perhaps under $1,000? Plus, I have mates in the Empuriabrava area.

[Captain N]

Just wondering if anyone has any opinions of the above school?
I have been looking for a flight school for months now but just came across this one! apparently its one of the best in europe (or thats what they claim)

[mccluskey56]

Hi there,

Well i went to look at their facility in Fort Pierce FL. If i were you i would stay away from this organisation. Complete and utter mess when i went to have a look. Planes broken everywhere Instructors that looked like they really didn't have a clue and a horrible location

[bolty_1000]

I totally disagree!!!!!!
I spent the best part of 2 months out at EFT in Florida last year and found them to be fantastic!
Id recommend them and if you do a more in depth search on them then you will find others who also would approve!!

[llesson]

Very good organisation who I have no hesitation in recommending!!! Feel free to PM and questions.

[Megaton]

Did my CPL there about 4 yrs ago. Now fly Airbus for a well-known British flag carrier - enough said?

[mungo_55]

I asked about EFT in a post a few weeks back. I got a mixed response (about 11 replies). Quite a few said they received good training. A few were negative about the financial side of things. A couple were negative without really saying why.

I've talked to Trevor, their CFI, and he comes across well. I've also been talking to a guy called Matt who has done a lot of training out there, and is out there at the moment. He speaks quite highly of them and seems to think they pressure you a bit on the money front, but as long as you keep tabs on your account you should be fine. I am probably going to book up a CPL with them starting mid-May. PM me if you want to exchange any info.

[mccluskey56]

Well i can only tell you what i saw!

[razzele]

Mccluskey56 ,

I am the most junior instructor at EFT with 600hrs. TT I have all my JAA ratings and all of my FAA ratings, thats alot of flight tests! The other instructors at EFT all have in excess of 1500 TT, also with all JAA and FAA ratings. I from time to time may have a hair out of place but you should never judge a book by their cover!

:*

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
The standard of training is good, the weather is highly variable, they have very little space in their premises, they have/had no sim or access to a sim of any kind(not even the most basic Frasca or Elite).The fleet in 2001 consisted of five very tatty Be76s, of which only one (6047W) was regarded by themselves as fit for use in tests,a very motley bunch(7) of Cessna 172s and an Arrow(which was the best of the single-engined fleet).EFT piggybacked on the Ari-Ben Aviator school, which is a shadow of it's former self,which meant that EFT shared everything, and I mean evrything, with Aviator.The Aviator advert which is commonly seen in flight magazines is a true work of fiction, as none of the Be76 aircraft had functioning radars, heaters, propellor unfeathering accumulators and you were not allowed to fly outside the State.Because there was no night maintenance, downtime during daylight hours was often critical, in terms of aircraft availability.All hours building in the twins is done at night only.They also charged you 3% on the Visa, as everyone had European credit cards.Only US-issued cards were exempt this charge.Naturally, this is not mentioned on the EFT website.
Shall I go on?
I wouldn't go there again.
regards
TDD

[Captain N]

Ok guys thanks for your help
I think looking at the website and from negative comments here i prefer FTE instead of EFT.
have already filled the online application form for FTE so hopefully will be moving down to spain soon;)

thanks and good luck to all of you

[malmopilot]

Smart move Captain N. I went their and had many many problems. The instructors was good and Trevor was a good guy. The C172's and PA28 was not so good. They did not seem to have many mechanics to keep the aircraft working as they should. The Beechs was always broken and students was complaining a lot!! The aircrafts was also very expensive. EFT rent the aircraft off Aribun Aviator (strange guy who runs this school) who rent the aircraft off someone else. This means many people was making a profit out of you. If EFT could get C172's on there own not from Aribun then maybe it would be saving you money. There was also a crash of an EFT student. He died but I don't know what happened. I found this link:-

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA06FA007&rpt=p

I think FTE is very good school!!

[sdryh]

I went to EFT in the summer this year and found the flight school training to be good. As mentioned before the financial management side of EFT is a mess, so watch your money. The aircraft are 172's and BE76's which is just like most flight schools. They have a full time maintenance team which work round the clock to keep the planes moving, but unfortunately they do have perionds when there are not enough planes for training, especially if you are due to fly the Arrow! One tip, the student housing is the old Pam Am building, which was fantastic and on site, but I found out EFT charged their students 600 dollars whereas the Aviator students were charged between 450 - 500 dollars a month?

Regards

Sdryh

[mungo_55]

To be fair to EFT, the Credit Card Surcharge of 3% IS mentioned on their price list and not particularly hidden away. How long its been that way I don't know. I certainly think I'll avoid that payment option if I sign up with them though !

[european champion]

I had really bad experience with them,just to give a brief summary the instructors were crap and the management was not serious,they acted like they were desperate for money,they played all kind of tricks to make people pay more from what they were told to expect in the beginning.

[Send Clowns]

Couple of points to consider:

Why 172s if you are going on to Arrows? Not a huge change, but other schools I know use either Warrior/Arrow or Sundowner/Sierra. OK so I personally dislike the 172 and others might not, but it does seem odd.

Are you a CPL instructor, razzele? Those hours are somewhat on the low side of what is commonly found in schools even for someone just starting to teach CPL. I undertand that a change is due and the CAA wants all new CPL instructors to have commercial experience so of course that will mean it is unlikely new instructors will have less than 1000 hours, once they have the required instruction experience too.

[atplman]

EFT will attempt to bleed you dry for every bit of money that you have. The instructors are all trained under jaa and faa ways so the training is not as you would be used to in britain. The briefing side of things is minimal to non existant which will add money to your training. The time keeping of the instructors is good, the time keeping of the owners and the examiners is terrible. The aircraft are all old and with only one arrow for the cpl the course will be disjointed due it continually going for routine checks and for it being grounded for another stupid little fault, and occasionally some major faults as well. The instructor lottery is the next thing one instructor will be good the rest will be awful. A good instructor will get you done in the time, a bad instructor will get you done in twice the time, however the standard of which you will pass at would probably not get you a partial in the uk.

[malmopilot]

Yeah, some the instructors very good but others pretty bad I guess. One EFT instructor I hear crash a Beech earlier this year. He forgot to put the landing gear down!! Good instruction?

[Send Clowns]

That is a little unfair. Many people have done it - you must have heard "those that have, and those that will". I have seen the aftermath of a CPL instructor allowing it, and I am assured that one of the CAA examiners has done it.

[quackers]

I did my CPL with EFT a couple of years ago, plus the initial part of the MEIR, before going to Bournemouth. Whilst I was happy with the standard of tuition with regards the CPL, the same could not be said of the MEIR (As you may be aware, you cannot do the complete course at EFT). At that time the only IR Instructor was <<name removed>> (who was clocking up a phenomenal number of hours at the time!!). I was not the first student who threatened to give him a good hiding due to his pompous, arrogant, condescending attitude. If that wasn't bad enough, it transpired that his tuition was well below par - all the students returning to Bournemouth found out that we were ill-prepared (basic stuff such as badly taught holding patterns etc).
Now of course it may be that <<Name removed>> is no longer the only IR Instructor at EFT (Indeed he may no longer be there at all if Trevor has wised up) but if I were to have my time again I would check out who was doing this most important aspect of my training (the CPL is enjoyable compared to the IR - and a damn sight cheaper!!)
My advice (for what its worth) is this: Do your CPL and ME in sunny Florida but don't waste your money on the IR over there - do it in the country where you will be tested. :ok:

[Mark Collins]

I agree that some of these posts are all a little unfair. Having been an instructor at EFT for the past 2 years and having regularly taught the CPL I resent being called crap! I am sure the other instructors do too. I have have also never played any tricks on individuals to extract more cash. It's quite simple, the CAA set the standards and if the student doesn't meet them then thay have to repeat that lesson. The CFI and instructors at EFT worked very hard to employ a high set of operating and teaching standards all of which are followed religiously. I know all of the instructors personally and they are a credit to the school.

To answer some of the other points raised; there have been issues in the past with the facilities and they are small, but they have recently been improved and make an enormous difference to a students experience at the school. The accommodation has also improved with the use of the old Pan Am facilities.

It is true the aircraft are old and some have definitely seen better days, but the quality of the maintenance is again second to none - I personally wouldn't get in any aircraft I thought was not airworthy. The maintenance staff and fleet have been increased in size so there is now minimal delay to students for tech issues. I will also concede that the school could benefit from another complex aircraft for the CPL students, but this debate has been raging since the school started. Even so I would hazard a guess that the average CPL for the average student is still only 3 weeks.

I think that EFT provide a good product at a good price, there are always things that need developing, but in my time there the positives always outweighed the negatives.

It is also important to note that there are many recent graduates of EFT, both students and instructors that have moved on and got FO jobs with good company's in Europe. Myself included.

Safe flying to you all.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
Mark,
with all due respect,EFT was a shambles. Piggybacking on Aviator is bad news, full-stop. That set-up only worked when there were few FAA students.When I was there, the maintenance people would not work nights because their pay was bad and MC wouldn't up the rates to get them to work nights nor would he buy insurance to cover night work.The hangar could only admit one aircraft at a time.The Sierra never flew because the Chief Pilot(Aviator) had crashed the other and <<XX>> had grounded him and the other Sierra, although it was kept servicable.There were never 8 BE76s as claimed,only five.There was only two PCs between both schools. The accomodation was overpriced, the briefings were inadequate, the cars were overpriced and semi-derelict (and <<XX>> continuously hassled people for money, even those who could prove they had paid up!).
The comment about <<XX>> being arrogant was true enough.He was also a shareholder in the school, so he had a different motivation than the rest of the instructors.I got on ok with him, but I know others who had a bad time with him.
the major pain was the difference in rates paid by FAA students to that being paid by JAA students.Quite why a Yank could pay $145/hr for a Beech 76 and the JAA guys paid $245/hr was never satisfactorily explained, given that Trevor hired them from <<XX>> for about $50/block hour.Also, the fact that examiners were coming all the way from Michigan, on only one weekend a month put huge time pressure on them and the students.All it took was one delayed airline flight or one bad-weather day and the schedule went to bits, at the student's expense.The school's only saving grace was the skill of the instructors.
regards
TDD

[llesson]

It is also important to note that there are many recent graduates of EFT, both students and instructors that have moved on and got FO jobs with good company's in Europe. Myself included.



I`m one of those students, now on the B737 with a top company!! Hey Mark, thanks for CPL instruction, top notch mate.

[Mark Collins]

TDD,

I can't really dispute any of your points as I have heard similar stories from the beginnings of EFT. I think the problems you experienced were part of the growing pains of the school. In my time there I have certainly seen a vast improvement in the facilities and way that the school is managed. <<XX>> is a difficult individual to work with sometimes and that means that EFT sometimes suffered, but I think EFT and Ari Ben have reached a much happier working relationship. This in turn has changed the mentality of the people that work there and things seem to run alot smoother. Improvements have been made; new cars, new computers, new accomodations. So I think a student attending the school would have a different experience to the one you had.

EFT has always had good potential to be a great school and I think some of this potential has been realised, there are of course still further steps to take. The outlook is much more progressive and the management and the instructors are much more willing to develop the products they have.

On the money side, I think there will always be disputes as people are paying a lot out of there own pocket. Flight training is so cash intensive that maybe students are chased a little too hard sometimes for money! I think that's what happens at EFT, in my experience they are an honest company though.

Mark.

llesson - Congrats on the job, I think I gave you the "400' set autopilot, read paper" brief, didn't I?!?

[llesson]

haha, sure did!! Coming in very important now....

[Megaton]

"Gear up, grub up" is, I believe, the only correct after take-off checklist :)

[Matthew Adams]

This thread is like reading a thread from 2-3 years ago most of the information posted by anyone other than Mark is well out of date. The thread does EFT or this forum any justice as the information provided is generally obsolete.

There are now 7 computers all internet linked, with printer, FAA databanks available at the school the building has been brought up to a good standard with planning desks briefing rooms etc, which to be honest is better than some schools I have visted in the UK.
There are no longer any Sierras at EFT/Ari Ben.
There are 8 or so Duchesses which most of the 80-89% are in full service and not in 100 hours. I myself never experienced any maintance issues I have not experienced in the UK (granted most of my flying was single time)
Accidents happen - trying to implicate any school is unfair based on them, if you look into other schools accident records they will have had them as well.
There are no suprises in the finicial side of things - everything is listed on the website - if you don't read the website properly (It's not in the small print) then your not doing your resarch properly.
The only way I heard of EFT was via the quality of the instruction being high - as had many of the students so I am suprised by the comments regarding this - and I finished my training at EFT this year so my experience is valid. I would strongly recommend EFT on the merits of its instruction standard - and would recommend the school for the commercial side of things. Not everyone will complete the courses in minimum time, and yes you may want to upgrade more time to the Arrow which willl incur extra costs - that's your decision it's not compulsary - I don't know of one school which doesn't sell minimum hour courses - that's marketing and life.

To all those including Mark, who have left EFT and got jobs. Congratulations!

Now let's get this back to recent experience about EFT not information 2 years old (times change) and hearsay - and if you want to discuss Ari Ben I think it should be done in a seperate thread.

Safe Flying.

[Farrell]

Having been a former student of EFT - I will add to what has already been said by Mark and Matthew.
I have nothing but good things to say about the school. And in fact, with regards to them bleeding you dry for every penny that they can, I also have to say that my experience has been to the contrary.
Trevor, Ben and Charlotte actually SAVED me about $800 in training fees last time I was there by putting together a specific package for me - even though it was ME who screwed up!
Aircraft are rented from AriBen - who also rent SOME of their aircraft from another company.
Quality of the aircraft are fine. They are safe and they fly well - no complaints there.

Finally, to the individual who decided to post about the recent accident.....accidents happen. It was very unfortunate, and everyone was really upset about it. However - this gives you no grounds to criticise the school. Accidents in aviation are par for the course - and it's mere childishness to use it to have a stab at EFT or any school for that matter.

Safety at EFT - and I have witnessed this firsthand - is of the utmost importance, so much so, that I will be going back out to them again in September.

[Lamboo1]

Hi Guys,

I am booked to Leave on the 24th April, this thread has been very helpful!

However i have a question for anybody who has done the IR in the US and then in Shoreham in the UK.


1) What is the training difference like from US to UK?

2) What accomodation is recommended in shoreham, as EFT stated on their website that they dont provide any accoomodation. Could someone help me out on the accomodation for thee middle of june )



Cheers

Chris

[portsharbourflyer]

EFT no longer operate Shoreham as an UK IR training base.
The EFT IR operation closed quite some time ago. Shoreham was an unsuitable location for IR training, seen as though the test centre was based at Bournemouth.
Now that PTC at Bournemouth is closed, I am not sure where in the UK EFT complete the IR. However some general advice, if you are training in the US do an FAA IR, then do the 15 hour conversion in the UK, or do the complete IR course in the UK. FAA multi IR training at Ari Ben was in the region of 165 to 195 dollars an hour in the Dutchess. The JAA multi IR training was 295 dollars an hour in the Dutchess with EFT. For the price of 30 hours of JAA approved training at EFT you can do a complete FAA IR.

[charliealpha]

EFT, like any other flying school, markets programs and list minimal hours. I am at EFT, and have seen students finish courses in minimal times with no problem. A lot of learning is a state of mind, in other words, when you come to train, your mindset needs to be such, not "where is the Bar" or "how far to the beach". The people who come with these attitudes do not finish on time, often postpone flights, or do not pass written exams. And they have crap attititudes due to lack of sleep and extensive partying. That is the reality. If you are a serious student, you have no problems.

The prices at EFT are competitive, and I know for a FACT that all price scenerios are given to prospective students ahead of arrival. The paperwork that goes to students when they enroll for a course or programme includes details of housing costs and deposits, training costs, and any other fees such as airport retreivals and test fees.

Guess what....We CANNOT control the weather.

Once again, attitude is everything. How many flying schools can you attend without paying money???? When you find one, let me know. The only people who are stopped from flying due to money issues are those who are seriously in a financial hole, and make no effort to pay. Charlotte works with everyone on money issues the best she can, and does her best not to stop someone from flying.

EFT is a school who has suffered hurricanes, fast growth, and the tragic loss of a student. But through all this, EFT has survived and prospered, and continues to train people SUCCESSFULLY. Each week, former students obtain jobs, and EFT recieves their reference requests. Congratulations to those pilots!!!

[cosworth211]

I'm not going to comment on the pro's and cons of EFT, but CharlieAlpha you need to get a life!
The 3 (and a bit) months I spend at EFT were the best of my life, I made great friends, I spent alot of time at the beaches and the bars. I did concentrate on my training too, but didn't forget to make the most of this opportunity to train in Florida that most non pilots would kill for. I haven't regretted a thing about my choice of choosing EFT.
PS I got 98.5% average across the PPL exams and completed every rating on the stage 1 APP (including multi) in minimum hours. I guess some of us are just more talented eh! :hmm:

[charliealpha]

Cosworth211, you are the exception, not the rule. The difference is that you made flying your priority. Some don't, and they suffer.

And by the way..My life is pretty darn good, thank you.

See you back here after the ATPL's.

[atplman]

Cosworth211 will you go back for stage 2 though? Poor training, lies and money pinching are not uncommon for flying schools I agree, but when you
are 4000 miles away from home it seems all the more evil

[cosworth211]

CharlieAlpha, my first comment was tongue in cheek! No offence intended!

During my stay at EFT during Phase 1 I didn't find one person that fitted the criteria you mentioned. I met alot of sociable characters, that enjoyed the bars and beaches, but they all seemed to strike the balance right, and when it came down to their flight training they took it seriously.

Obviously I can only comment on the characters I met during my last visit, you may have trained along side people with different attitudes to their training, hence our differing opinion on the subject.

I will return after my ATPL's ATPLMAN, I am aware of the negatives of the school, however I personally found the level of instruction to be superb (cheers TJ!), the accomodation was good (but why do we pay more then Aviator students??? :* ) and I like the area. I also want continuity in my training which I understand is a factor in gaining employment.
My main advice to new students to EFT is that you are spending a huge amount of money. YOU are the customer, say something if you are not happy with an aspect of your training or your account.

[Frank Furillo]

Lets face facts folks, I went to EFT last year for my CPL\ME and IR. I now have a job offer and am currently doing my 737 CL Type rating.

Was it good value, well although it was not the cheapest, it was still cheaper than the UK would have been. We had more flying days than in the UK.
Not all the students had the determination and drive to finish what they had started, that is sad, but there is no such thing as a free lunch.
I had no complaints with the instruction, Iain, Thomas and Mark were all second to none and if anything just as good as other instructors I have come accross over here. If the quality and age of aircraft is a concern, (it isn't, they are all airworthy) then pay more money somewhere else for nice new aircraft.
I was based in the holiday trailer park, just up the the road, this was a bargin for $25 per day. I am told that they are not using it no more which is a shame, but the regular student housing seemed to be very good.
Fort Pierce is a dump, what do you expect for the price you are paying?
It is only 90 mins from Orlando and the Cape if thats what you want. It does have a nice a beach though.

I enjoyed my time in Florida, I worked very hard and am now reaping the rewards, as with everything in life you only get out what you put in.
Si
Oh any by the way the call at 1000' is "N1 Speed 210, Flaps 1 and where's my cup of coffee"

[mackey]

FF

I think the call is "EPR, LNAV,VNAV, Climb thrust ,Centre to command coffee please and a pen for the crossword!!"

As for EFT, Mark was my instructor for the CPL and with his guidance I got a first time pass so I was very happy. All the instructors are very good even though the 172's are abit tired looking,they work well and I did not have an issue flying any of them.You pay for what you get.

Simon.

[TCX-G-FCLA-B757-200]

Hi all, can't find this thread, so would imagine it was not been mentioned, but if it has feel free to move the post.

Just want some advice/positives/negatives about EFT- The airline pilot programme. I have applied to BCUC for the air transport with commercial flight training, but am keeping my options open, as I might not get onto the course.

Does anyone have any expereicne or any advice about EFT and their airline pilot programme, positives/negatives, etc.??

Would be greatful to hear off anyone who knows anything about EFT??

Cheers, Nick, G-FCLA....... :ok: :ok:

[mungo_55]

Just been out there. In short, good instructors, accommodation fine, but using the Arrow on the CPL was problematic. PM me if you like.

[DC-8]

Is anybody going to EFT Fort Pierce in the following months? Any comments about their JAA FI course? Has anybody had any problem with the CAA to endorse the FI rating?

Thanks in advance.

[charliealpha]

The FI course is a CAA course. and the test is done by a CAA examiner, so it will be recognized by the CAA with no worries.

[Captain Spam Can]

I thought EFT had suspended operations temporary due to fuel handling bills:confused: :confused: :confused: Anyone know any differnt?

[AlphaMale]

Hi guys,

I was planning as many different routes to getting to the top and the cheapest / best schools etc and I *think* the APP will be just my cup of tea. Has anybody on here done this?

I figured it would cost me around £50,000.00 so that means with no loans on offer I'd be looking to start it in Sep '09 :{ ... unless ofcourse as an instructor you get paid for it?

What is included in this price? $62,995
Flight training for all licences (including aircraft hire & instructor)
During your period as intern instructor, remuneration for your work

Any help would be good.

Thanks

Andrew

[BigGrecian]

"I thought EFT had suspended operations temporary due to fuel handling bills Anyone know any differnt?"
This just proves this a rumour forum - never has happened - and certainly not happening at the moment.

[henriksch]

@alphaMale

You do get paid.

10usd for private ground and flight an hour

15usd for commercial

My roommate was an instructor there, and made about 1500-2000 usd a month...or somewhere in that neighborhood

[andai]

Hello Everyone,

I am considering EFT to do my PPL (Fast Track..) with them. Does anyone have any recent experience with them? Is it ok?
What are the upgrate costs e.g. to a Cessna172?
Anything else to consider?

[Farrell]

EFT is fine.
Have never had any problems with them.
The planes work fine and are maintained to the highest standard.
The instructors are great - and trust me, I know some of them who wouldn't get into a car that had a dent, let alone a dodgy plane!

They rent all of their planes from Ariben Aviator, the school next door.
This does not mean that you will be waiting on planes. The majority of Ariben's work is on the ME fleet of Beech 76 Duchess'.

The accommodation is fine too and EFT are currently using the apartments that used to belong to the old Pan Am Academy - which is a ten minute walk across the airfield from the Aviator ramp. (You will have to pass the Tiki Restaurant on the way which is the airport eating house; there is a ROCKING chick who works there!...and the burgers are good too!)

You will need a car if you want to actually do anything as there is no public transport in the area. In fact there is very limited public transport anywhere in Florida - everybody drives as fuel is still cheap by our standards!

You have the Winn Dixie shopping mall and a great Chinese restaurant at one end of the area.

You also have the Flying J truck stop which has everything from food, to CDs to T-shirts, all aimed at truckers but great for those of you who want 'redneck' souvenirs haha!

You will become very familiar with Winn Dixie and Flying J as along with Harbour Branch and South Bridge, these will be your VFR arrival routes to the airfield.

You also might have the privilege of meeting a certain controller who is known affectionately by some as Captain A' hole! - who has been known to order people out of the flying circuit and back onto the ground for a nice tower visit......do you remember that, Ray??!! :E :}

Enjoy....you'll have a great time at EFT.

[Seagull61]

Has anyone done the Aerobatics AOPA certificate at EFT? It looks good, but just wanted some feedback.

Only worry is, will I be treated as an "add-on" to all the full timers?

[AlphaMale]

Only worry is, will I be treated as an "add-on" to all the full timers?

In what way do you mean that?

I don't think the Full timers (18 month students) will be teaching the aerobatics as it's not in the course for them (Although if I have the extra dosh I will be doing it there).

And if you were what would be the problem? I look at from a student point of view where I need to be twice as good as a regular instructor due to wanting to be the top of my class. I will still have enthusiasm and hey when I have 600 hours of instructing under my belt you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. I am sure having around 1,000 hours of instructing under my belt when I come home will be more than some the part time instructers that teach in the UK.

Only my view ;)

Andrew

[Seagull61]

The questions only from previous experience and not at EFT. Having got my PPL in the states, the school where I was learning seemed to care more for the full time students who were pumping 40K into the school as opposed to the PPLers.

So if there are any issues with instructor and plane availaiblilty (does the aerobat get used for normal training as well), then i`d like to know up front.

If not, then great. Where do I sign?

[Mono del dia]

If you do the aerobatics course then you will undoubtdly be tought by one of the senior instructors (most likely either the CFI of H of T). These guys don't genrally teach the normal flow of students on PPL's, CPL's etc so you shouldn't have any problem with 'fitting into the schedule'.

The aerobat is generally only used for such courses and for the odd student that requests it for hour building, so aircraft availabilty should not be a problem. One question to ask would be how many hour builders they have using the 152 as this is the only thing I can see affecting your schedule.

It is a lot of fun so enjoy!

[Seagull61]

Got a mail from EFT this morning. They no longer run the aeros course. So i`ll get back on the hunt for a Florida school that does.

[gernie]

Hi to everyone, I´m a spanish student very interested in this school and specially in his APP programm (1500h). But my question is about the phase 4 of this programm, the IR CONVERTION, wich is carried out in the UK.
Can someone explain to me this phase 4? In what it consist? Is this a proper license convertion?
Many people advice me about the risk of doing a license convertion. That convert a FAA license into a JAA is crazy because you must repeat all the exams again, fliying test and it cost a lot of money. So there´s any European student like me, who has been there doing the APP programm?

I´m really excited about starting there my training but first I wanna be sure where Im going. Thank you very much guys

PS: Any honest oppinions are welcome. :)

[portsharbourflyer]

Haven't looked at the details exactly but from my previous experience of EFT, phase 4 is probably converting the FAA IR to JAA IR, therefore the initial skills test for issue of a JAA instrument rating has to be done in a JAA member state. The JAA CPL however can be done in the US.

Although few people manage to convert an FAA IR to a JAA IR in the minimum required 15 hours doing the FAA ratings first and then converting is generally fairly cost effective. Remember while the JAA license has 14 exams the FAA has one written exam per license and rating and oral test per license and rating. Never done the FAA tests but the written tests are generally thought to be quite easy, though I have heard the oral test can be quite challenging ( having to explain answers to an examiner on the spot means you need to know the subject as opposed to learning some facts parrot fashion).

However it is generally quite easy to get an instructors job without needing to sign up for any kind of internship scheme, all the APP scheme is really is JAA modular training, FAA conversions with instructor ratings.

[gernie]

I would like to get in contact with someone who has been in EFT doing the APP program.
Thank you

[Matthew Adams]

When I did my training it was all JAA based with a JAA initial IR. Not FAA then JAA. This is the main differnce between EFT and other JAA schools in the US. ALL JAA Qualified instructors teaching a JAA course.

The instructors then converted to FAA.

[gernie]

Hi, again! Today I recieved an email from EFT, saying this:

You do all your JAA and FAA licences except for the covertion the JAA IR, this is done at the end of the APP and can be done in any JAA member state including Spain.

So anyone knows what this means? In wich consist this process? Anybody can explain to me with detail, what u have to do, and how many exams?

Thank you very much guys!

[BlueRobin]

It means EFT (presently) will issue you with a FAA IR, after which you have to undergo a conversion procedure in a JAA state (this means Spain, UK, France and so on) This is quite clear form their website.

No US-based school is approved (by the CAA) to conduct JAR IR courses. See Standards Document 31 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF)

I think it has something to do with the examiner requirement so would be very surprised if another JAA state took a different line.

[renright]

Guys,
I have a couple of questions on how the course is structured, from the APP in detail page - http://www.flyeft.com/library/ME-APP.pdf - in phase 2 it appears to me that you study for the ATPLS and work as an instructor.
If I am correct on how the course is structured I will study for module 1 of the ATPL while training in the USA head to the UK for the revision course and exams, return to Florida continue my flight training and distance learning for module 2 and head to the UK for the revision and exams again. Is this correct?

OR
Do I complete phase 1 of the APP, then head to the UK and do the ATPL study and exams. After the exams I return to Florida to complete the course. This is what it looks like from this page: http://www.flyeft.com/app/financial_app.html
PS - I have also sent this query to EFT and I am currently waiting for a response.

[dartagnan]

guys, you ask to many questions...
make your licenses in US, canada, or whatever you would like to fly and teach...
then go to bristol gs and study your ATPL.
then go in a european school and convert your IR.

and that's all...

[gernie]

I would like to get in contact with someone who has been in EFT doing the APP PROGRAM.
Thank you

[gernie]

Hello Poonta

There is a mine of information to be found on this forum about EFT.
You will find good reports and bad reports - just like you will for every major Florida based flight school.

I'm not sure if the Search function is working fully at the moment (maybe a moderator could answer that) but you should try and search under "EFT".

I have trained at EFT and have already commented on my experiences. A quick search will also uncover that.

Best of luck with your training.

Farrell

Farrel did you do the APP program? If yes, how was the phase 4 of the program? I mean the IR convertion. I´m afraid about this con many people warned me not to convert licenses, cos its quite difficult and expensive. Is this true? They said that you have to do like 14exams... So they told me to do my training in Europe If I want to work in Europe, and not in US because the conversions. But I really want to do my training in the US cos it´s much cheaper, and for example EFT in their APP progam offers you to work as FI and get about 1400hours of fliying time, thing that in Europe any school offer. Well hope you can give some information about EFT and your own experiencie with them. Thank you very much.

[pipergirl]

weel, you can do your training in the US under the JAA system no problem (obviously apart from the JAR IR)..but if you do the FAA way and convert, you will have to eventually do the 14 ATPL exams...afarid there is no way of getting out of that..

Sure, if you eventually want a JAA Frozen ATPL, sure you'll have to do the exams either way

Afraid I can't comment on phase four of the course as I haven't done the APP course...

[Desert Budgie]

I think when it comes to converting your IR from FAA to JAA it all depends on the students ability as to how long it takes and how difficult it will be. If you go to EFT i would say it would be beneficial to do some single engine instrument time so you know the basics for when you do it in the UK. However, a full ME IR is going to set you back a good few thousand dollars, and personally, this would be money I would keep towards a full IR in the UK. From what I have heard from pilots who have done the conversion, it is very rare that they achieve this in the minimum 15 hours.

Although an IR pilot should be able to fly in any airspace, anywhere in the world, the reality is an inexperienced 150-200 hour pilot will probably struggle with the change of flight school, aircraft and procedures. With this in mind, it may take 10 or more hours for familiarisation, so by this time you may aswell have done the whole thing in Europe. Most good IR schools in the UK give you time in simulator first before you go into the aircraft. This is probably cheaper than doing IR flying in the real aircraft in the US anyway. With this in mind, that money saved avoiding a full FAA IR is probably money well spent in the UK.

Cheers
DB :ok:

[Matthew Adams]

EFT offer a JAA Instrument:
25 hours single in the US
5 hours multi in the US
10 Hours Sim in the UK
10 hours Multi in the UK.
Current prices copied from the EFT website.
$6,995(USA section)
£4,750 (UK Section)

The last students to complete this course only went an hour or two over at most.
A bit cheaper than the full course in the UK - and more flying certainly.

[gernie]

weel, you can do your training in the US under the JAA system no problem (obviously apart from the JAR IR)..but if you do the FAA way and convert, you will have to eventually do the 14 ATPL exams...afarid there is no way of getting out of that..

Sure, if you eventually want a JAA Frozen ATPL, sure you'll have to do the exams either way

Afraid I can't comment on phase four of the course as I haven't done the APP course...

Well first of all, thank you very much for all your replies. So pipergirl you mean that if I do the APP with EFT, I wont have to do the 14exams, cos EFT is under the JAA system? I´m sorry but I have no idea about a conversion process is. So I supposse that there are two different ways,? First and the hardest is getting the FAA license and then convert to JAA doing all the 14 exams, and second way and easier is going to a school who is under the JAA system, and when finish the training go back to Europe to do an easier convertion (IR convertion) to get the JAA license? Is it something like this? Or I´m completely lost?
Im just very afraid about choosing the wrong school and then have to do a long, expensive and hard convertion. Many of my friends warned me about this. I think they were talking about the first way of conversion cos they mentioned something about 14 exams as well, and that is crazy to do it!
I hope you can understand what Im triying to say, I know my english is not very good. I will be very glad if you can answer me this BIG QUESTION. :O

[DuffyDuck]

Hey Gernie,
either way, you have to do the 14 exams! Every jaapilot has to do it as it is part of the training even here in europe!
Taking the us-atpl means, that ypu have do do all the theoretical hours, do some more fliying and convert the licence. doing the jaa- atpl in a us-school iost like doing the whole thing in europe. you do not have to convert! only the last thing, the ir, can´t be done in us an has to be done over here.

I have to say, that i do not have a atpl yet, but i probably take my training in the usa as well in the future.
good luck.

I was wondering, is there anyone out there who took the jaatraining in the usa and got a job in europe?
is it harder compared to other schools to find a job? or would you say, the airlines don´t care as the training is as good as in europe?

[AlphaMale]

Gernie,

By doing the APP in the US you will sit the 14 exams (distance learning) via Bristol G.S. to my understanding. It's really not that hard to follow. I am still saving but I will get there eventually.

Good point about saving money on the FAA IR and putting it toward the JAA IR :ok: ... I might get out there a little sooner than I think. :D

There is no getting away from the 14 ATPL exams. Unless you do the US version or the Canadian version etc. You want a flying job in europe then you WILL have to sit the 14 exams :cool: .

Good luck

Andrew

[gernie]

Hey Gernie,
either way, you have to do the 14 exams! Every jaapilot has to do it as it is part of the training even here in europe!
Taking the us-atpl means, that ypu have do do all the theoretical hours, do some more fliying and convert the licence. doing the jaa- atpl in a us-school iost like doing the whole thing in europe. you do not have to convert! only the last thing, the ir, can´t be done in us an has to be done over here.

I have to say, that i do not have a atpl yet, but i probably take my training in the usa as well in the future.
good luck.

I was wondering, is there anyone out there who took the jaatraining in the usa and got a job in europe?
is it harder compared to other schools to find a job? or would you say, the airlines don´t care as the training is as good as in europe?

Hey DuffyDuck and Alphamale! Thank you very much for your replies!!! Really I think now I have a much clear idea about all this!!
So, if I choose EFT (European Flight Training) to do my training, as it´s a school under JAA system, I will have to do the 14exams anyway, but will I do them in the US while doing my training with them? Or should I go back to Europe to take the exams? that is my question now?
So I got to the conclusion, that doing the training in this way (in a Jaa school in the US), I wont have to do a long convertion. I will just have to do the IR convertion, isn´t? Someone knows anything about this? How long it takes? How many exams? What really means an IR convertion? Instrument Rating? What the hell this means? :mad: :O

I also would like to ask, what people think about the idea of doing an APP program, like EFT´s.
EFT´s program is about 63,000$ and they guarantee you a job as flight instructor. Working like this they say that you will get up to 1470hours of fliying time, and when finishing working (max.18mounths) you will have to return to Europe for the IR convertion. Some people told me that some airlines doenst like very much this APP programs cos in fact you are buying your work. Is this true or just bull****?
I think what really matters for airlines is the experience, and how many hours do you have.
Cos this is the main point why I´m want go to the US for my training. Cos in the US I will get a lot of fliying hours, and in Europe in any school you wont get more than 220hours. So I think, If someone does a program like this that you can get up to 1470hours and afterwards do the IR convertion, he will have many more employment options than an European student that just only have 220hours. Is not like this? What you think guys? I will really like to have more opinions about this.
Well hope you can understand again what I´m triying to say. My english is very poor! And thank you again to everybody whos is helping me out in this post. Ciao!

[Matthew Adams]

Some people told me that some airlines doenst like very much this APP programs cos in fact you are buying your work.

Your not buying your work. Your buying your license + ratings.

You get paid whilst instructing.

[AlphaMale]

Right you really need to print out the whole website and PDF's on their site like I did (albeit on the works printer :oh: ).

The reason I am studying for this course is due to the fact it'll give me an FAA & JAA licences including FAA / JAA Instructor ratings which will pay for themselves during the 12 months of instructing.

You study the ATPL in the US via Bristol GS - so NO need to come home. but while your revising for your exams you will also be Instructing people who are doing the FastTrack FAA PPL's. After completing the ATPL's you will instruct FAA & JAA PPL/MEP/CPL's to the masses for a small payment but gaining valuable hours.

An airline will not see you as buying your hours := What you are doing is working your little A*s off to get through the door of an airline company. Example BMIbaby/EasyJet etc want 1,000 hours minimum! With 1,400+ hours and a lot of it being Multi time during night and bad weather they will probably respect you more than a guy that paid for his course (250 hours) and then spend thousands of Euros/£/$ on getting time in the air.

What you read was when airlines ask for 100 hours Jet time and a type rating. This means you need to find £20,000 for the type rating (TR) & line training but you're still lacking 100 hours on a Jet :{ So what some people do is work for free to gain the 100+ hours or some are desperate enough to pay for this time. This will get you no respect when the Airline asks how you managed to gain the needed hours. And 'IF' you were lucky enough to get the job in the LHS the Capt in the RHS will more than likely have zero respect for you and not let you fly much :ugh: ... By paying to gain flying time you are bringing down the Pilots pay (do a search) so when you get to the top you'll be getting paid 25k Euros and wonder why you paid all that money for your training?

Sorry for the long reply but remember you'll be there for 18 months and Florida isn't all that cheap ... the good thing is that you are quite far away from Miami and Orlando so the temptations are not as strong (more time to revise).

1,400+ hours and all you need to do is come back to europe and pass a IR rating :cool: ... I estimate I'll be EFT in 18 months time :ok:

Andrew
(You'll find a few APP courses in the states not just EFT)

[Finals19]

I am currently researching EFT for various courses. One thing I cannot seem to find on their website is any option for licence conversions? (Canadian CPL/ME/IR > JAA (f)ATPL) I am going to email them, but before I do so can anyone shed any light on this? No doubt there are other FTU's in the US that will do this?

EFT would work well, because my ATPL's are going to be done with Bristol.

Thanks in advance.

:ok:

[KrazyKraut]

Any approved JAA FTO in the USA, Canada or in Europe can convert your Canadian licence to JAA. That includes EFT - but mind, EFT can't do your JAA IR conversion, since the skill test must be taken in the UK and not in Florida.

Where you do your ATPL theory - Bristol or elsewhere - doesn't matter in the slightest. When you have achieved a pass in all 14 written exams, you're good to go. That's the beauty of the modular training route.

Yeah,

KK

[escobar]

anybody know who is examning the flight instructors exam at EFT now?

cheers

[gernie]

1,400+ hours and all you need to do is come back to europe and pass a IR rating :cool: ... I estimate I'll be EFT in 18 months time :ok:

Andrew
(You'll find a few APP courses in the states not just EFT)

Alphamale, don´t you think that 1470hours as in the website says are too many hours to do just in 18mounths working as instructor? One friend of mine who is a pilot told me, that is crazy to do all those hours in just 18mounths, that it will be much more time. I understood that the APP program are 18mounths, included the phase while you work as intructor, isn´t? Or it is 18mounths for the app program and another 18 working as instructor?

And about the IR rating, you have any idea about this? how long it takes to pass it? And how many exams?

Thanks a lot.

[Mark Collins]

gernie:

I worked at EFT as an instructor for just under 2 years and left with just under 1500 hours (started there with the normal 250). After the APP is completed you are normally issued with a J1 (during the APP you are on an M1) which is valid for 2 years and this gives you plenty of time to build lots of hours.

An average for the JAA IR is about 4-5 weeks with EFT this is about 3 weeks in the US and then approx 2 weeks in the UK to convert, depends on the student, weather etc.

Escobar: It has been a while since I have been at EFT, but I believe that Mr. Stephen Fisher is the FI examiner, but I could be wrong.

Hope this helps.

[gernie]

Mark,
thanks for your reply! It has helped me much! I want to ask you another question. I supposse that u were doing the APP program? Don´t you? I wanna know if the APP is a distance learning program, or there are regular lessons. I mean if students must study by themselves and then just take the exams, or there are teachers giving daily lessons to the students. I know that the question can sound stupid, but this is a important point for me.

Last question is that I also saw the pics of the school in the website and it really looks quite small. While you was instructing there, there were many students? Or just a few?

Thank you very much in advance!

[Mark Collins]

Hi Gernie,

With regard to the 14 theory exams it is mainly self study with refresher courses held by who ever you decide to use as your theory provider e.g. Bristol.

There are two ways you can do this:

1) Complete the PPL and some hour building and then study full time on your own in whatever part of the world you choose. This can be the longer route as it depends on how disciplined you are at making yourself study.

2) While taking your PPl/hour building you can be studying for your first ATPL module exams. This can be more stressful and is a higher workload, but can have benefits in reducing the amount of time it takes you to complete the whole APP course.

The important thing to remember is that when it comes to the ATPL exams you are doing them through a third party (yes it is distance learning) like Bristol, EFT does not provide ground school to you during this phase of the APP program. However if you are starting your studies while you are still at the school, any instructor will be happy to try and clear up any confusing points. During my time at EFT many students used Bristol as there ATPL exam provider and all seemed to be very satisfied and felt prepared for their exams at the end of the refresher courses run in Bristol. Some students stayed in Florida to study and some went home, the choice is yours and should be based on where you feel you can concentrate and absorb the most amount on info in the shortest amount of time. Hopefully you will also learn some stuff along the way too.

In the two years I was at EFT the facilities changed dramatically, they now have at least 4 seperate briefing rooms, dedicated office, dispatch, student lounge and computer and weather stations. The school averages approx 25-30 students max at any one time and although the school will be busy space is never really an issue.

Hope this helps.

Mark

[The Saw]

Mark is this Steven Fisher the same one who abandoned Swallow Flight training at Cardiff and Gloucester with massive debts and left Pilots who had paid up front with nothing?? if so he s**ks:mad:

[Chitty's Leader]

Mark is this Steven Fisher the same one who abandoned Swallow Flight training at Cardiff and Gloucester with massive debts and left Pilots who had paid up front with nothing?? if so he s**ks:mad:
I don't know the stories behind the schools you mention, however the Stephen Fisher at EFT does carry some infamy connected to a similar scenario. As far as I know though, he does not have any financial involvement in EFT should that be concerning you (although I stand to be corrected if that isn't true).
However, when I was at EFT, I was very aware that a couple of students did have issues with him as their examiner - whether that was justly/unjustly based on him failing them, I do not know. I only heard & saw one side of the story.

I think it is unfortunate that EFT has this connection, because it does blot what is otherwise a good school. As with all things connected to reputations, the worst always stick in peoples minds.

[Mark Collins]

As far as I am aware Stephen Fisher doesn't have any financial involvement in EFT and I don't see any reason why he would. I am unaware of the stories mentioned before, but as an aviator and examiner I personally have never come across any problems with him.

Most examiners are slightly excentric and always have there own opinion on how things should be done/taught etc, but you can also learn a lot from them if you are open to constructive evaluation of your performance. Some people are not always so open especially after a stressful flight test.

Some examiners are also more difficult to get on with than others and I am sure all examiners have their fans as well as their detractors.

As to whether this is unfortunate for EFT, I am not too sure it can be helped. The JAA community in Florida has a limited resource when it comes to examiners. The ones they do have I have always found to be fair and constructive in their assesments of student flight tests. This comes from both a student and instructor point of veiw. With any examiner the best approach is to be well prepared and treat them like a normal human being and try to overcome any reputation you may have heard of as most of the time not all elements are truthful.

[NH2390]

In the two years I was at EFT the facilities changed dramatically, they now have at least 4 seperate briefing rooms, dedicated office, dispatch, student lounge and computer and weather stations. The school averages approx 25-30 students max at any one time and although the school will be busy space is never really an issue.

Hope this helps.

Mark


I had to post to clear this up. EFT has none of these facilities apart from a dedicated office. They use the briefing rooms, dispatch, student lounge computers and weather station belonging to another school (Ari-Ben Aviator)which owns the building and have only the office for themselves. The other school has more than 120 students at the moment, so as you can imagine it gets pretty crowded. They also rent all of the planes from the other school which opens up a whole load of problems with availability. You are also required to stay in their accomodation at $1000 a month (yes, really!). EFT have no authority to issue VISAs, they are issued on their behalf by Ari-Ben, a situation which isn't legal.

I have not had training at EFT, but I have at Ari-Ben, and their lack of professionalism is well-stated on these forums. Because of the way EFT works you will encounter all of the same problems while a student there.

[Mark Collins]

NH2390,

Are these facilities and aircraft not shared? I do believe they are and any EFT student has full access to the facilities I mentioned before.


Are all these 120 students flying at the same time all throughout the day? I don't think so. There is not enough aircraft for this to be possible. There is always a steady flow of students from both schools either coming or going for flights. In two years I would never have said that the place was ever crowded.

Availability of aircraft in any school is a matter of give and take, the relationship between EFT and Ari Ben is a healthy one and the two will always come to a managable solution if a conflict arises. The aircraft are leased from Ari-Ben on an as required basis, this is not an uncommon practice in the world of aviation.

If you have issues with the quality and professionalism of Ari-Ben I suggest you raise it with them. Also, the fact you have never received training from EFT hardly qualifies you to criticise on the above points. The team at EFT is well trained and they run a disciplined training schedule. I know these people personally and professionally and they are a very fine bunch of instructors that provide an excellent service to the students which rivals any JAA school in the industry.


As I said before the two schools work very well together and there are rarely any problems a student needs to be concerned with.

Overall the situation is positve, but I will never say it is perfect. There will always be problems, but these are generally minor. As per the cost of accomodation, I don't know how much it is now, but any student would need to check directly with EFT to verify the amount.

With regard to the visa being illegal, please establish the basis of your comment with some more information. In my experience the US government, IRS, USCIS and homeland security have never seemed to have a problem with it. The reason I know this is I have just been through the process of alien registration and I think they might have bought it up if I had been in the country working illegally for the past two years. My application was approved without query.

Mark.

[Matthew Adams]

EFT students are not required to say in EFT accommodation and it certainly does not cost anywhere near $1000. The daily rate from the website is $35, but the monthly rate is lower. This has not changed even with the move of the accommodation in reply to NH2930 comments below.

There are no problems with availability of aircraft if you manage your schedule with your instructor. Those students who suffer from availability often suffer from other issues such as punctuality. In response to availability as replied again below by a student who wasn't even at EFT - I never had an availability problem whilst training - Recently : I didn't have an aircraft only once in two months. The complex was down more than one month but we had no students booked to use it; as we knew the overhaul was happening - it's what we call planning.

I never had a problem - and I think it unfair to group Aviator with EFT regarding un-professionalism.

EFT is run as a much tighter ship than Aviator as would be expected with a JAA school. I think it fairer for EFT students to post comments here rather than students who haven't flown here - with genuine experiences and more fact. The way visas is sponsored has worked for hundreds of students and is therefore legal.

Additionally, I suggest you take any comments you hear regarding examiners with a pinch of salt if heard from a student. The examiners are all fair and are standardised by the CAA.

[NH2390]

Yes, the facilities are shared, I simply wanted to correct your statement that EFT has 4 briefing rooms and all those facilities for 25-30 students when that simply isn't true.

Since there isn't physically room in the school building for all 120 students, maybe 30-40, plus a few from EFT, the idea that all would be there for training is ridiculous. It is, however, common for all the briefing rooms to be occupied by students from one school or another, and the 6-seat 'pilot lounge' and the rest of the building are crowded every day.

Availability of aircraft is, frankly, abysmal. It is normal for at least half the fleet to be down for maintenance or awaiting 100-hour checks. No priority is given to EFT or Aviator students.

I'm not sure when you attended EFT, but the housing situation changed at the end of October. Where previously students were housed at the airport for $600 a month ($475 for Ari-Ben students), the accomodation is now 20 miles away in Vero Beach and is $1000 a month ($600 for Ari-Ben students). I have an apartment in Vero and was hoping to have a good friend of mine who is a student at EFT move in, but they were threatened with the extra charge.

A list of Visa sponsors can be found here: http://exchanges.state.gov/jexchanges/
EFT is not on it. The US government believes you were studying at and working for Ari-Ben Aviator. Probably a good idea not to tell them otherwise, eh?

I have directed no criticism at the staff at EFT whatsoever. The instructors I have met and chatted with informally all seemed very professional and knowledgeable. However you can't go to EFT without encountering the Ari-Ben management (they do sponsor your Visa, after all!), and all the other problems encountered by an Ari-Ben student.

Expect many delays due to plane availability. For example, they only have one complex single, which can be a nightmare if you are trying to do your JAA CPL and it goes down for a week or two. It was down for more than a stretch of more than a month during the summer!

[Mark Collins]

My statement of the available facilities to EFT was not intended to be misleading, the fact that EFT share these facilities with Ari Ben has been discussed a couple of times on this thread and is generally known by most who have done their research.

I left EFT in Feb of this year and as I said before I never really experienced an over crowded building or the "abysmal" availability of aircraft. I have to reiterate Matthew Adams' point that working closely with your instructor erradicates any potential issues. Both the student and the instructor need to be proactive on this issue as they would in any flight school. As a student it is partly your responsibility to make sure you are on the schedule and your training is progressing.

With regard to the Visa issue you are correct that EFT are not on the list, but I was indeed studying at Ari-Ben, I recieved my FAA SE IR + Commercial, Multi IR Commercial and FI licences through them.

From here I then went on to gain experience instructing JAA students from EFT as this was considered to be the most relevant experience required. EFT are considered to be a preferred training partner of Ari Ben. I was flying aircraft registered to Ari Ben and also being paid by Ari Ben. This information is not a secret and the practice in no way illegal.

Mark.

[NH2390]

If you do all that training at Ari-Ben then I think my comments are entirely relevant.

There were students waiting for the complex to come back up after it's overhaul. I know of several other students who suffered significant delays
when it went down for other reasons.

During my time studying at the school I missed MORE THAN HALF of my flights. I was always on time and always ready to go, the planes simply were not. I had non-stop problems from radio-failures mid-way through one checkride to having three maintenance issues on three separate aircraft and having to postpone another. There were a total of 4 planes flying that day, 2 multi-engine and 2 single, pretty bad for 150 students. I live with an instructor who usually loses at least one flight each day. I also know of two EFT students who had to return to Europe without completing everything they wanted to because of delays on plane availability.

Aviator can sponsor you to work at the other school, but not to train there. It's illegal to issue visa's on their behalf, but you've confirmed you were working for Ari-Ben.

[Mark Collins]

While I was working on the J1 visa I completed no training with EFT, I already had all my necessary JAA qualifications. All the required FAA training was through Ari Ben. This is the same for every student who becomes an instructor at EFT.

Still not illegal.

[NH2390]

While I was working on the J1 visa I completed no training with EFT, I already had all my necessary JAA qualifications. All the required FAA training was through Ari Ben. This is the same for every student who becomes an instructor at EFT.

Still not illegal.


I stand corrected. If you weren't training at EFT it's legal.

But this vindicates my comments. Since you are training at and working for Ari-Ben Aviator you are subjected to all their problems, from missing and delayed paychecks to the dishonest and unprofessional management.

I'm sure EFT is run much better, they just aren't independant enough.

[RITZER82]

Hi has anybody have any knowledge whether EFT flight school in Florida has a good reputation because I just seen an advert placed on pprune that you can achieve a TT 1,500 hours with them at just under $60,000, all assistance will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.

[NH2390]

EFT isn't a real school. EFT is basically a broker, charging inflated prices for people to go to an FAA school called Ari-Ben Aviator. They have none of their own facilities, apart from a small admin office, and none of their own airplanes. Most of your instruction is done by Aviator instructors at a higher rate than what Aviator students are paying. For example, Aviator's own program is $36,000, and the only other things EFT will give you is a JAA CPL conversion and JAA CFI. Most of your hours will come from working for Ari-Ben Aviator as an instructor, instructing EFT and Aviator students.

Don't think for a second I'm reccomending Aviator. It's poorly managed, with incompetent staff, poor maintenance and worse availability of airplanes. The same airplanes you'd be flying as an EFT student.

If you want to fly in the states I recommend going to another FAA school that has a J1 program and then instructing. You can then do your CPL conversion. You will save a lot of money this way.

[RITZER82]

Thank you for your swift and very useful informative advice, I am quite strongly looking into Orlando flight school as it is very affordable would you recommend me this fligh school establishment as I am looking to do a course that offers 0-fATPL, thanks.

[NH2390]

I'm afraid I've never visited OFT and I don't personally know anyone who has. There is a thread on here for the school with lots of comments. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212516&page=3

I have visited Naples Air Centre who have a program similar to what you are looking for. They seemed professional (although I'm not sure about the cats!), and have a nice looking setup, with their own airplanes! Naples also looks like a pretty good town to live in. I can't comment on the standard of training. I'm sure there are some comments to be found on this forum.

[RITZER82]

Many thanks for your kind assistance.:)

[yoda1]

Hi has anybody have any knowledge whether EFT flight school in Florida has a good reputation because I just seen an advert placed on pprune that you can achieve a TT 1,500 hours with them at just under $60,000, all assistance will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.


Hi m8 the following is a thread dedicated to the school:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206623

:ok:

[BigGrecian]

RITZER82 is not asking about Aviator he is asking about EFT - so try and stick to the point - and comment on the Aviator thread rather than the EFT one and leave it to those who have trained at EFT to comment here. He is also based in the UK so most probably will require JAA training rather than FAA training. In my experience of flight training people who provide posts such as yourself often create most of their problems themselves - and any student or isntructor who knows about NH2390 will agree that he created his own problems.

Yes some instruction is provided by aviator instructors but that is the minority of the instruction. They currently have over 6 JAA qualified (who are also FAA instructors, all European - British, Danish, Itlalian) who provide well over 90% of the training done at EFT so therefore EFT are providing their own training. If EFT wasn't a real school it wouldn't be granted FTO status by the UK CAA. All APP instruction bar the initial CFI is now provided by EFT instructors and not Ari-Ben instructors (With one exception - a wee Scottish girl lol)

Regarding schools being attached to other schools - this is common practice and not unusual among the JAA Flight Schools based abroad. EFT is just one of such schools doing so.

NH2390 - Now that the questions have been answered properly regarding EFT - why don't you create a post explaining your experiences at Aviator on the Aviator thread, rather than replying to posts and keeping your experiences to yourself and moaning about a school you never attended (Please don't reply on this thread.) - at least that way you'll be providing some positive input to this forum. Your comments are out of date and irrelevant to the EFT thread.

[NH2390]

He is asking about the APP program which includes 90% FAA training with Ari-Ben instructors, at Ari-Ben, and then working for Ari-Ben. That makes my comments 90% applicable.

[KrazyKraut]

There's no denying the (cough, cough) 'links' between Aviator and EFT. The EFT-Aviator relationship extend beyond airplanes, instructors and facilities.

But it doesn't matter - EFT is a good school for what it advertises - getting licences quickly and relatively cheaply. While that's not ideal for everybody (i.e. for those whose first priority is not minimum course completion time or cost), those people who *do* want quick and cheap are served well at EFT, and they won't mind whether they are taught by American or UK instructors.

I have first-hand experience (albeit not recent) of EFT and can recommend it along these lines.

Yeah,

KK

[cosworth211]

I just wanted to highlight EFT's new accomodation policy and wondered if anyone else has comments/been caught out by it.

They have put up the accomodation cost from $600 to $1050 per month, while the actual standard of accomodation has decreased and is now 20-30 minutes drive away, previous accomodation was actually on the airfield, or 10 mins away.

For your extra money, you get to share a cheap and nasty Hyundai or similar, if you do not have a driving license, or wish to buy your own car, you do not get a discount.

The affiliate FAA school, Ari Ben, only charges $500 for the accomodation and doesn't force you to share a horrible car.

I've trained with EFT since Sept 05, and fly out to Florida on monday to do the CPL/IR, they had the courtesy to tell me of this policy change today, even though I signed up for the CPL/IR 5 weeks ago. I do not have time to arrange alternative accomodation now.

Anyone else think this is unfair? :*

[AlphaMale]

Quite interesting how you say the cost is between $600 and $1,050 :ooh:

I've been saving for the quite some time to do the APP (calculate to start between Feb / April 2008) if they have little things like this going on to catch me out then I am off to Egnatia or some other school first as last :ugh:

The only issue I thought I'd have was getting to the airfield everyday. Think AriBren might be a better deal for me ... back to the drawing board for me then :(

Let us know what happends.

Andrew

[cosworth211]

Quite interesting how you say the cost is between $600 and $1,050 :ooh:

Sorry, to clarify the accomodation was $600 previously, and is now $1050 as from 1st Jan. Though no-one contacted anyone already signed up of the changes.

Don't get me wrong, EFT is a good school, but I am very unimpressed with this housing policy, which forces you into renting one of Ari-Ben's (their affiliate school) cars. Some of us already own cars out in Florida, when I was out there last I bought a car with 2 others, with insurance/tags etc it worked out 4 times cheaper then renting.

If the policy is being forced on EFT "from above" then they should stand up for their customers.

[AlphaMale]

I see they updated their site to $35 per day :rolleyes:

I have been told you could get penalised for not using their accommodation is this true? It might be easier to rent a house closer to the airfield for example? share that between 4 students and hey presto :confused:

I am really excited about doing my APP at EFT would you recommend it? It would be nice to hear it from a current student point of view :ok:

Thanks

Andrew

PS I think it could be Aviator pushing up the prices for EFT :rolleyes: But then I guess if they can why shouldn't they it's only business at the end of the day.

[cosworth211]

I see they updated their site to $35 per day :rolleyes:
I have been told you could get penalised for not using their accommodation is this true? It might be easier to rent a house closer to the airfield for example? share that between 4 students and hey presto :confused:
I am really excited about doing my APP at EFT would you recommend it? It would be nice to hear it from a current student point of view :ok:
Thanks
Andrew
PS I think it could be Aviator pushing up the prices for EFT :rolleyes: But then I guess if they can why shouldn't they it's only business at the end of the day.

Yes, changing the unit of time is a bad attempt to hide the price hike. Im not sure how you could be penalised for not using their accomodation.

It is possible to rent privately, unfortunately being told 6 days prior to flying out isn't much time to sort out alternative arrangements! I received an email telling me of the new housing policy the day after I wired money to them for the CPL course :suspect:

I have enjoyed my time at EFT, the training is of a high quality. Its a shame when things like this tarnish peoples opinions of them.

I agree companies have the right to charge what they want, but they shouldn't move the goal posts for people who have already signed up/paid deposits etc, Im sure contract law is in place for this sort of unethical practice! As EFT is Aviators biggest customer, im sure they levy some power to ensure their students are treated fairly!

[Matthew Adams]

Cosworth - a bit unlike you to post without the full details initially.
It is generally accepted the accommodation standards have gone up.
It is however, further away from the airfield. There is an hourly bus service to the airfield back and forth for free.
The package does now include a car - and if you were renting both before hand the new price offers savings. Aviator's cost is the same with the car.
I challenge anyone to find accommodation for anything less than 4 months which will work out cheaper at this time of year accommodation wise.

[cosworth211]

Cosworth - a bit unlike you to post without the full details initially.
It is generally accepted the accommodation standards have gone up.
It is however, further away from the airfield. There is an hourly bus service to the airfield back and forth for free.
The package does now include a car - and if you were renting both before hand the new price offers savings. Aviator's cost is the same with the car.
I challenge anyone to find accommodation for anything less than 4 months which will work out cheaper at this time of year accommodation wise.
Before accomodation was $600 a month, a shared rented car $87.50 a week. I make that $978, a $72 premium, not saving. You also lose the choice to purchase your own car, which can cost up to 4 times less then renting. I note you purchased your own car also, instead of renting from the school.
This is a blatant move to force you to rent a car from the affiliate school. If it was not, you would have the option to opt out of the car rental, which you don't. I wouldn't complain if this had always been the policy, but it has been sprung on me and two fellow students 6 days before we leave for Florida, after wiring the money for the course, booking flights, obtaining Visa's, TSA etc.
Do you honestly believe that $2100 a month is a good rate for a 2 bedroom flat in Vero Beach? You could rent a modern 4 bedroom house here in Sussex for that!
As I mentioned I do rate EFT and think they are a great training organisation, but that doesn't mean I won't complain about something that I feel is grossly unfair. I started this post to ensure no one else is caught out unaware of the change in housing policy. The 2 fellow students who fly out to EFT with me on the 15th are fuming also.

[BattleCreek]

Cosworth - a bit unlike you to post without the full details initially.
It is generally accepted the accommodation standards have gone up.
It is however, further away from the airfield. There is an hourly bus service to the airfield back and forth for free.
The package does now include a car - and if you were renting both before hand the new price offers savings. Aviator's cost is the same with the car.
I challenge anyone to find accommodation for anything less than 4 months which will work out cheaper at this time of year accommodation wise.

I think the fact of the matter is the lack of communication from the school and the fact that they are truly backing people into a corner.
The school have yet to tell me of this increase and I am currently studying with them...so I wonder at what point they are going to have the decency, manners and basic customer service of informing me. I know of other students who purchased cars before Christmas and who are now still on their Christmas break and have not been informed.

There is no argument that the $1050 for car and accomodation is a good price, but to offer no alternative to a student who simply doesn't need or want a car, is pushing it, to say the least. As Cosworth stated, it is an increase of $78, so no saving from before. Also, if the Aviator students are paying $500 or 600 a month, then why is this same price being offered to the EFT people?

If you are paying a school or company a hell of a lot of money for a service and they decide to put the prices up, fair enough. But they do need to inform people in advance and not spring it on them unawares.

And as a point of reference..The shuttle from the accomodation runs every 2 hours, not every hour.

[Keygrip]

I would just love to see the road transport insurance documents for some of the school rental cars, shuttle buses and "airport transfer" vehicles.

That's ANY of the schools - not any one in particular.

The words "hire" and "reward" spring to mind.

[charliealpha]

Let's put the truth here about housing accomodation and vehicle rentals, instead of rumours and ranting:

The housing accomodation costs did increase, this is true. The truth is, costs actually increased as of November 1st, but we did not raise the students costs until January 1st, so that students could plan ahead. There was no discrimination against Europeans, as indicated by one ranter, but an overall cost increase all the way across the board, even for American time builder students. The only exceptions to this at this time are those students who are signed up for a course, such as the Pro Course or Airline Pilot Programme that housing costs are already included in. The changes to the housing costs were posted on our website December 1st.

This is how the system works: the cost of $35.00 per day includes housing and transport. There is a shuttle which runs every 2 hours back and forth to the apartments, and each apartment includes a shared car between the two occupants of the apartment. Once you arrive for enrollment, you are assigned the vehicle and added to the insurance policy for that vehicle. Yes, they are insured!!!!! All our current vehicles are late model economy sized vehicles, not junky or mechanically unsound.

If you are unhappy with what we offer in terms of housing and transport, then there are plenty of motels that are not within walking distance of the school, and you can rent a car from a rental car agency. The choice is yours. Our accomodations are offered as a convenience to our students.

Anybody having questions regarding things shown on pprune about E.F.T. should contact the school directly.

[charliealpha]

One final thought...

If you go someplace to train, then return there over a year later, prices are bound to cahnge. Heck, even Disney World changes their prices!!

[mackey]

Hi all,
I did hours building and the CPL at EFT in 2005 and I found them to be very accommodating to all the students, as long as they were on time for ALL briefings and flights.
The standard of instruction was second to none and all the instructors were very helpful and with that thought I got a first time pass on the CPL:ugh: (cheers Mark, I owe you several beer tokens!!!!). I never had a problem with getting an aircraft as long as YOU have scheduled yourself in for one.
I stayed in the apartments near Vero Beach and was great, remember its only a place to park your bones after your flight and it is also quiet enough to study.
To all of you thinking about going to EFT, go and judge it yourself and don't be persuaded otherwise by posts from people who obviously didn't enjoy it there......or perhaps did not do very well!!
I enjoyed it anyway so there!!:ok:
M.

[Keygrip]

Heck, even Disney World changes their prices!!

Not once you've bought the tickets, they don't (no matter HOW long you wait before using them).

[AlphaMale]

Anybody having questions regarding things shown on pprune about E.F.T. should contact the school directly.

I am not going to judge. But it's tens of thousands of my hard earned cash and I want to get what is best and I think EFT can offer this.

I shall get in contact with them soon and ask them a few questions that are bothering me. But it does seem unfair why Ari Ben get the same accomodation for a lot less $$$. Why shouldnt I simply go to AriBen and save the needed $$$? I can only afford one shot at this so I need a back up plan.

[cosworth211]

:confused: Let's put the truth here about housing accomodation and vehicle rentals, instead of rumours and ranting:
The housing accomodation costs did increase, this is true. The truth is, costs actually increased as of November 1st, but we did not raise the students costs until January 1st, so that students could plan ahead. There was no discrimination against Europeans, as indicated by one ranter, but an overall cost increase all the way across the board, even for American time builder students. The only exceptions to this at this time are those students who are signed up for a course, such as the Pro Course or Airline Pilot Programme that housing costs are already included in. The changes to the housing costs were posted on our website December 1st.
To be fair, I was informed of the price/policy change two days ago. You updated the sales side of the website, under "about EFT". Why would one of your students since '05, who signed up for the proffesional licences months ago read this part of the site? Even now the site is still incorrect, with no mention that your $35 a day includes car hire. The Aviator site is also out of date, still offering accomodation for $500 or $600 dependent on location, hence the "rant", as the website hasn't been updated weeks after the change.
This is how the system works: the cost of $35.00 per day includes housing and transport. There is a shuttle which runs every 2 hours back and forth to the apartments, and each apartment includes a shared car between the two occupants of the apartment. Once you arrive for enrollment, you are assigned the vehicle and added to the insurance policy for that vehicle. Yes, they are insured!!!!! All our current vehicles are late model economy sized vehicles, not junky or mechanically unsound.
If you are unhappy with what we offer in terms of housing and transport, then there are plenty of motels that are not within walking distance of the school, and you can rent a car from a rental car agency. The choice is yours. Our accomodations are offered as a convenience to our students.
Anybody having questions regarding things shown on pprune about E.F.T. should contact the school directly.
None of the original complainants have commented on the insurance issue. The issue has and always was the fact that we no longer had the cheaper option to buy and insure our own car, which is much cheaper. I personally enjoyed owning and running an old American car. We could own/rent a jap car in the UK, part of the experience of being at EFT previously for me was taking part in the american lifestyle and buying an American car, or at least having the choice to. Yes we have the option of sorting out our own accomodation, but it is a bit difficult when we are informed 6 days before flying to Florida! Myself and a fellow student saved a fortune the last time we were out in Florida with EFT, owning and running a fantastic American convertible, which was fully legal.
Just to add that I did receive a call from the head of EFT tonight to discuss my concerns over these issues. It was grateful for the phone call and we addressed the issues concerned. This was the customer service you expect from such a top school such as EFT.

[davey147]

I came accross all the same problems, and as soon is I mentioned them to EFT, they started to ignore my emails.

Ive decided to go to Ari Ben, you get the same course for 50% less $$$$$

[Cpt. Relax]

I see that most reactions are very positive about EFT.
I must say there site is very informative and detailed, so no complaints about the having all the information you need.

I am looking for students & instructors who are willing to sent me PM with their experiences at EFT.

So if you (ex-students, ex-instructors) could send me a PM with all your positive/negative experiences with EFT (Fort Pierce), you would help me further in making a decission.

Thanks in advance

A future APP student...

[Farrell]

EFT isn't a real school. EFT is basically a broker, charging inflated prices for people to go to an FAA school called Ari-Ben Aviator. They have none of their own facilities, apart from a small admin office, and none of their own airplanes. Most of your instruction is done by Aviator instructors at a higher rate than what Aviator students are paying. For example, Aviator's own program is $36,000, and the only other things EFT will give you is a JAA CPL conversion and JAA CFI. Most of your hours will come from working for Ari-Ben Aviator as an instructor, instructing EFT and Aviator students.

Don't think for a second I'm reccomending Aviator. It's poorly managed, with incompetent staff, poor maintenance and worse availability of airplanes. The same airplanes you'd be flying as an EFT student.

If you want to fly in the states I recommend going to another FAA school that has a J1 program and then instructing. You can then do your CPL conversion. You will save a lot of money this way.

You will need to back up those statements with facts.
EFT students are trained (with the odd exception) by EFT instructors.
Aviator is very well managed and so is EFT - if they weren't, they simply wouldn't survive.
You will not be working for Ariben as an instructor.
You will instruct EFT students as an EFT instructor. There is a difference between the two instructor certificates......you are making me suspicious.....how much about this business do you really know, and how much is just shooting your mouth off!

The thread at the moment is around accommodation charges.....stick to it for now eh? :rolleyes:

[portsharbourflyer]

The reason Ari Ben survives is because it offers extremely cheap training and multi hour building compared to other schools; It is well managed in the financial sense but I wouldn't say customer focus is a strong agenda in the Ari Ben business philosophy.

[NH2390]

You will need to back up those statements with facts.
EFT students are trained (with the odd exception) by EFT instructors.
Aviator is very well managed and so is EFT - if they weren't, they simply wouldn't survive.
You will not be working for Ariben as an instructor.
You will instruct EFT students as an EFT instructor. There is a difference between the two instructor certificates......you are making me suspicious.....how much about this business do you really know, and how much is just shooting your mouth off!

The thread at the moment is around accommodation charges.....stick to it for now eh? :rolleyes:


Would you like me to back up my statements with facts or just talk about accomodation charges?

At the time I made these statements was while people (including instructors at the school) were still telling me I was wrong for exposing the hike in accomodation prices. Maybe some people should have listened. I believe everything else I said has been confirmed by other posts.
The lack of any EFT facilities is well known.
When I was at the school last summer, EFT students completed their FAA ratings with FAA-only instructors before doing JAA conversions. I believe there are currently more JAA instructors, and so some students are currently doing all their training with them.
You will be working for Ari Ben. You'll be instructing JAA students, but Ari-Ben still pays your paycheck, as has been confirmed by other posts.
Ari-Ben is very badly managed. They survive only because they claim to be $9000 cheaper than a large FAA school called ATP. The claims are misleading, but many people don't find out until locked into a contract.

[Farrell]

Still no facts NH....

It's all just hearsay until you come up with those.

Both Ari and EFT are fine. Not badly managed however, I will agree that from a customer service perspective that they "appear" to lack.

I have first hand experience of dealing with both schools and still keep in touch with instructors from both schools on a weekly basis.

With regards to EFT, the accommodation charge is still open for debate, and from the outset it looks like a mistake has been made in how it was handled to give you your due.

However, with respect to Ariben and Mike and TJ etc.....the school does exactly what it says on the tin!

Play the ball......;)

[Mono del dia]

NH2390,

You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about as you have mis-interpreted what is commonly called the APP program at EFT.

As part of this program a student will complete their FAA ratings as this will them allow them to fly legally in the US when they return for the final phase of the program which is as an instructor for EFT.

Would you not agree that the best people to train a student for this would be an FAA CFI as opposed to a predominately JAA schooled and trained CFI. I think so. This has nothing to do with a lack of instructors on EFT's part. A nice and simple sharing of resources which makes sense for everyone.

I still can't believe you are going on about EFT's facilities, they share them with Ari Ben as part of their agreement. What exists for Ari Ben exists for EFT and it is perfectly legitimate for them to advertise that. You are trying to make something out of nothing. If you have problems with Ari Ben, go start your own post on flightinfo, but stop hijacking this one.

[NH2390]

What facts would you like?

You have instructors here like Mark Collins agreeing on this thread they were working for Ari-Ben.

People said I was making it up about the accomodation charges, but I've again been proven right.

How can I prove it's badly managed? Beyond telling you about things I've seen? Thankfully, I'm no longer at the school, I can't show you photos from dispatch showing how many planes are down.

The school doesn't do what it says on the tin, because as soon as you look inside, you find the contents are rotten.

Mono,

I'm not still going on about anything. I was told to bring facts, I stated some things were common knowledge, as you agree they are. I left this thread well alone until somone started attacking me. I'll add this thread was resurected after somone found out I was right.

Something you're right about. I do think an FAA instructor is the best way to train somone for an FAA rating. But why pay twice Aviators price to EFT for the same training?

[Farrell]

You have instructors here like Mark Collins agreeing on this thread they were working for Ari-Ben.

If you would care to read Mark's post again carefully, you will find that he said that he got paid by Ariben - but as far I am concerned, he worked for EFT.

As my learned friend said, between your thread drift and nit-picking, if you have an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.

[Mark Collins]

Just to clarify; I never worked for Ari Ben. Not once did I train any of their students, therefore I didn't work for them.

To get technical about it I was gaining work related experience from EFT for which, under the terms of the J1 visa you are allowed to recieve compensation.

I was merely a contractor who was paid by Ari Ben aviator for services provided to EFT.

Anyway, enough about me! How about we get back to discussing the issues at hand. Seeing as I am no longer at EFT I can't comment on the accomodation issue so I will just sit here and let the more well informed discuss it.

[Cpt. Relax]

Could somebody answer following questions about the APP (multi engine option):

They say the examn fees are not included in the price.
But: Do you need to rent the aircraft for the examn, or is it just the amount for the test you have to pay.

Because if you also have to pay for the rent of the aircraft it will be a very big sum (in the APP you need to get a lot of licences).


Other questions:

- Do they guarantee 1500h on paper?
- Will they stick to their shedule and finish all training in 6 months (all FAA & JAA including CFI CFII MEI)
- Does the avarage instructor work for about 100h/month
- Are the books (FAA & JAA) included in the price

ps: Are there any costs wich are extremely hidden? (not housing, car, examns fees, )

[charliealpha]

APP ME:

The programme includes aircraft hire for tests, but not the test fees themselves.

It is recommended that you purchase Trevor Thom books for your JAA portion, but this is not mandatory, and the school has books to lend.

Plan on investing in a personal headset, and of course maps and things of that nature. A list of recommended supplies can be sent to you by email if you request.

As far as flying hours and pricing, you can request for the Head of Training to send you a copy of the contract beforehand, as this is done for students quite often. Amount of hours and pricing depends on which program you choose, as there are a couple of different options after Phase One.

[NH2390]

If you would care to read Mark's post again carefully, you will find that he said that he got paid by Ariben - but as far I am concerned, he worked for EFT.

As my learned friend said, between your thread drift and nit-picking, if you have an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.

Not to nit-pick, but you're the one drifting this thread off the topic, by bringing up a post more than a month old. :rolleyes:

Mark Collins has confirmed that he was EMPLOYED BY Ari Ben to instruct EFT students, my original comments relating to his employer are entirely relevent, no matter who he is instructing. :D
EDIT: Just to add, some EFT instructors do teach Ari-Ben students.


People were complaining about the ridiculous accommodation charges, which are now 150% the cost of my three bed appartment in Vero Beach (which, I'll add, is much nicer than The Pines, which is known by current students by a very nasty word :E). Hopefully potential students will recognise good advice.

Maybe YOU should let them go back to that :oh:. Or maybe you should address some of the questions which ARE specific to EFT that Cpt. Relax has just rasied.

:ok:

[AlphaMale]

Other questions:
- Do they guarantee 1500h on paper?
- Will they stick to their shedule and finish all training in 6 months (all FAA & JAA including CFI CFII MEI)
- Does the avarage instructor work for about 100h/month
- Are the books (FAA & JAA) included in the price
ps: Are there any costs wich are extremely hidden? (not housing, car, examns fees, )

There are 3 of us waiting for the answers.

My main question is the first one and the third one.

If I am nly able to teach for 20 hours per month (@$10/$15 per hour) I will have around $250 for that month. But I'll be paying $1,000 a month for accomodation not to mention other costs like food etc.

And if after 18 months I only come away with 600 hours as opposed to the 1,500 hours I will not be impressed. 100 ours of instucting per month will able me to self fund myself for the 12 months of instructing.

If this can't be done I might aswell do the PPL/Night/ME/Multi CPL/IR/FI and then teach in the UK were my accomodation is much cheaper. And have the option of going back to work and flying weekends to build up the hours.

I will be calling EFT in the summer when I am closer to having my funds. I just hope they do what they say they do on the tin. Or at least let me finish with over 1,000 hours.

[Cpt. Relax]

There are 3 of us waiting for the answers.

My main question is the first one and the third one.

If I am nly able to teach for 20 hours per month (@$10/$15 per hour) I will have around $250 for that month. But I'll be paying $1,000 a month for accomodation not to mention other costs like food etc.

And if after 18 months I only come away with 600 hours as opposed to the 1,500 hours I will not be impressed. 100 ours of instucting per month will able me to self fund myself for the 12 months of instructing.

If this can't be done I might aswell do the PPL/Night/ME/Multi CPL/IR/FI and then teach in the UK were my accomodation is much cheaper. And have the option of going back to work and flying weekends to build up the hours.

I will be calling EFT in the summer when I am closer to having my funds. I just hope they do what they say they do on the tin. Or at least let me finish with over 1,000 hours.


I called them today.

What the APP concerns:

- First you need to do basic training (JAA & FAA PPL) (phase 1)
- Then you need to go back to Europe to do the ATPL theory (because you need it to do any further JAA-training (like JAA CPL) (phase 2)
- Then you return to EFT to complete the professional training (phase 3)
- Then you are employed at EFT (phase 4)

In phase 1 & 3 you will study on M1 Visa, phase 4 will be working on J1 visa with a maximum of 2 year.

ps: if you read this don't forget to look at my questions is asked in my previous posting :)

[AlphaMale]

I called them today.

What the APP concerns:

- First you need to do basic training (JAA & FAA PPL) (phase 1)
- Then you need to go back to Europe to do the ATPL theory (because you need it to do any further JAA-training (like JAA CPL) (phase 2)
- Then you return to EFT to complete the professional training (phase 3)
- Then you are employed at EFT (phase 4)

In phase 1 & 3 you will study on M1 Visa, phase 4 will be working on J1 visa with a maximum of 2 year.

ps: if you read this don't forget to look at my questions is asked in my previous posting :)

According to this there is no phase 3?

ME APP Program (http://www.flyeft.com/library/ME-APP.pdf)

And the JAA ATPL is done via distance learning while teaching FAA students?

I think I'll give them a ring and ask for an up to date program and cost/s.

[Cpt. Relax]

According to this there is no phase 3?

ME APP Program (http://www.flyeft.com/library/ME-APP.pdf)

And the JAA ATPL is done via distance learning while teaching FAA students?

I think I'll give them a ring and ask for an up to date program and cost/s.

They told me very clear that before professional training I will need to do the ATPL theory in Europe.
Otherwise I could not do any further JAA ratings.

Please give them a call and let me know if they answered any questions that would also be interesting for me.

thanks

[renright]

Alphamale, Capt Relax

I was told that i could to the APP two ways: stay in Florida and do the ATPLS while working as an instructor OR return home and study, then return to EFT for the professional training. It's totallly a personal preference. Personally I am going to do the latter and try to get the exams out of the way, then return to EFT. I also found the website very confusing but in talking to EFT they cleared up a lot of my concerns.

In terms of hours I will receive, EFT said I would expect to attain in the region of 200 multi hours during the course and then 500 instructing and another 500 - 600 hours single engine. I have not got this in writing and I will contact EFT this evening to see if I can get the contract sent out.

In my dealings with EFT so far I have found them to be very accomadting, lets hope it stays that way.:ok:

[Cpt. Relax]

Alphamale, Capt Relax

I was told that i could to the APP two ways: stay in Florida and do the ATPLS while working as an instructor OR return home and study, then return to EFT for the professional training. It's totallly a personal preference. Personally I am going to do the latter and try to get the exams out of the way, then return to EFT. I also found the website very confusing but in talking to EFT they cleared up a lot of my concerns.

In terms of hours I will receive, EFT said I would expect to attain in the region of 200 multi hours during the course and then 500 instructing and another 500 - 600 hours single engine. I have not got this in writing and I will contact EFT this evening to see if I can get the contract sent out.

In my dealings with EFT so far I have found them to be very accomadting, lets hope it stays that way.:ok:


Perfect!

Please let us know if you get the contract or have more information.

I will be doing the same thing as you.
I will also do Basic Training, then return to Europe to do the ATPL, and then return to the USA to complete professional training and work as an instructor.

When will you start?

[AlphaMale]

Looks good to me.

If they could give it to me in writting that would be great :}

So 200multi + 500 instructing + 500/600 Single. (1,200/1,300 hours)

So it could be

Start
200multi (being trained)
500 single (instructing students)
Study ATPL etc
500/600 (instructing single & multi students)
Take JAA IR in UK
End

So we might come away with around 450+ multi hours and 850 single hours?

Coming home to study for the ATPL's sounds quite tempting to me too (but then I don't want to stop flying for 6 months either). I'll make my decision closer to the date I guess. I think I'd rather be surrounded by aviation experts and enthusiastic students while studying my ATPL's in all honesty.

Andrew

[Cpt. Relax]

The normal procedure at EFT (they told me so) is to go back home back after Basic Training. Then do the ATPL's, en then go back for professional training and working.

[AlphaMale]

Well I guess I could pick up some freelance work and build up my money while studying for the ATPL's, having the big advantage of living costs being next to nothing. :)

Thanks for clearnig that up.

[2close]

I was told that i could to the APP two ways: stay in Florida and do the ATPLS while working as an instructor

Slight problem with that.

You cannot undertake the JAA FI(R) course until you have completed and passed the ATPL / CPL exams.

You could of course go down the FAA route and then convert to JAA later but this would require you to undertake the FAA CPL and CFI courses, with their written exams and flight tests.

Whilst working as a FAA CFI, once the JAA theory has been completed, you can then undertake ICAO - JAA CPL conversion and a reduced JAA FI (R) course which comprises 15 hrs flight and 30 hrs ground training, compared to the standard 30 / 125 hrs.

Suggest you clarify which way EFT intends to do things. Trevor is a top guy and I'm sure he'll tell you straight if you ask him.

HTH

2close

[AlphaMale]

Slight problem with that.

You cannot undertake the JAA FI(R) course until you have completed and passed the ATPL / CPL exams.

You could of course go down the FAA route and then convert to JAA later but this would require you to undertake the FAA CPL and CFI courses, with their written exams and flight tests.

HTH

It reads;

JAA/FAA PPL, Night & MEP
FAA Multi IR, CPL, CFII & MEII
Instruct 'FAA' Students while studying for JAA ATPL
JAA FI(R) & CPL
Instruct both 'JAA/FAA' Students
Fly home to UK and do the JAA IR



So it does make sense. :cool:

[renright]

I was on to EFT last night and they said the amount of hours you achieve instucting is dependant on how many hours you make yourself available for. So I suppose you can rack up the hours really fast or just take it easy. 25 hrs a week instructing is the average but you can get more if you want it. No news on a written contract though.

Cpt. Relax, I hope to start in March/April, I got all the TSA info today so filling out the TSA at the moment and working on getting a M-1 visa interview up in the embassy in Dublin. Finally took the plunge!!
Does anybody know how long the process takes?

[davey147]

Can somebody please explain to me about EFT as that is a school on my list, that I would like to attend.

They advertise a price of $62,995 for the APP program.

If you go to Ari Ben(FlyAviator.com), which is in the same building and use the same aircraft you can get all the FAA ratings including 200 multi hours for $35,995 and work as an instructor.

This means you are paying $27,000 just for the JAA CPL and JAA FI rating conversions, which should cost no more than a MAX of $8,000.

Whats to stop someone going to Ari Ben, doing the course for $35,995 and working there as an instructor, then going to EFT to do the JAA CPL and JAA FI conversions. That way I would save around $20k.

Am I missing something, what is EFT offering more than Ari Ben for all the extra cash? Im Confused :confused:

[AlphaMale]

I *think* it's already been answered in this thread (not sure what page mind).

I guess it's your own choice at the end of the day. I have people PMing me saying 'Your right - Do the APP at Ari-Ben for $35k and then convert at EFT at the end before coming home ... you'll save a packet'.

:ugh: There is no real answer to be had as to which is the right one for you. People don't tend to do their 0-ATPL over again and again with different schools so there probably isn't anybody that can compare without being biased.

IF I go to EFT I'm sure I'll come back saying 'It was great - go there!' but I never went to FSI / OBA / OAT so who would I be to compare? The thing that is positive is renrights post "EFT said I would expect to attain in the region of 200 multi hours during the course and then 500 instructing and another 500 - 600 hours single engine. I have not got this in writing and I will contact EFT this evening to see if I can get the contract sent out."

If I can get a contract saying I will get 1,000+ I'm happy to pay the extra.

Trying to log 300+ single/multi hours back in the UK will cost more than $8k for sure :sad:

[Cpt. Relax]

If somebody's has new information... (phonecall, mail,...)

Please share :)

[2close]

to see if I can get the contract sent out

That gave me a good laugh, not at the author, but at the prospect.

A flying school in the USA providing a written contract? That is a novel concept.

I won't bother to tell you the replies I've received in the past (I think the mods would pulll them) when I asked for such but needless to say they weren't particularly positive.

I cannot understand why not though. These are commercial enterprises selling products to clients and therefore contracts of sale and service level agreements should be in place. Don't forget you have to sign to agree to their Terms and Conditions (and there are usually plenty of them) so why shouldn't it be reciprocal? But whilst there are stacks of people out there ready to wander in without any form of protection why should they bother?

In the absence of any contract the best you can do is pay with a Credit Card - at least you then have a limited line of recourse against the CC company.

2close

[Mono del dia]

No self respecting filght school in this situation is ever going to guarantee any amount of hours to anybody. It would be highly unprofessional and a complete lie.

I fully support contracts outlining the ratings to be received, costs, possible extras and all the other bits, but there are too many variables in the market for anybody to guarantee hours. There will, however, always be the caveat of acts of god, weather and all other things we can't control that gives companies an out if the punter doesn't get what they want.

With the EFT situation the main constraint on this is time with the restriction of only two years on the J1 visa. It is more than feesible to gain more than a 1000 hours instructing in 2 years in this part of the world, but there is still the possibility that somebody wouldn't do it. This puts the company in a difficult position and not many options to solve the issue of an under houred graduate of the APP (if they put an hours figure in writing that is).

So, for this very reason alone it is understandable in a business sense. As they won't put it in writing it says something about their integrity and that they are not trying to decieve anyone.

The best people to talk to are the current/past instructors who will all likely tell you they quite easily managed to build a significant (1000+) number of hours during their time at EFT.

[renright]

I have to agree with the previous post, any questions I've had have been well answered by EFT.

I hope someone out there can help me with a query about the M1 visa. In the documentation I have received from the US embassy I am required to present proof that I will be returning home. The problem is since I am no longer in college and I have been working abroad for the last year and a half I don't have any proof of ties to Ireland.

Does anybody else know what would constitute proof that I will come home?

[Cpt. Relax]

Nobody? :)

[davey147]

They do have good reviews, Im going to visit EFT and Ari Ben in March, so ill tell you what my impressions are.

Ill be asking EFT the big question ...

What do you offer more than Ari Ben for $30k more? Just the CPL conversion!

[Cpt. Relax]

They do have good reviews, Im going to visit EFT and Ari Ben in March, so ill tell you what my impressions are.

Ill be asking EFT the big question ...

What do you offer more than Ari Ben for $30 more? Just the CPL conversion!


Nice, keep us updated about your visit :)

[AlphaMale]

Ditto the last comment ;)

[FL69]

My advice is to hire your own car and try and cut a deal on the accomodation. Most of the cars they rent you are wrecks. Two guys here keep complaining that the car they have been given isn't roadworthy but its falling on deaf ears. I rented my own car, any of the big rental firms will give you a good deal if you hire for a reasonable length of time, and cheaper then renting from the school too.

[Cpt. Relax]

And how is theire opinion about the school?

[FL69]

And how is theire opinion about the school?

Going downhill I imagine!

[Cpt. Relax]

Going downhill I imagine!

Evidence or arguments for this opinion (wich is without any arguments or examples)

[Justine]

Hi
I went with my husband to FL on M1 and M2 visas. The simple fact that he was on a JAA type course seemed to be enough. When they interviewed us, we just were truthful, said what our plans were and that was that.
We had to prove we had enough money to live on while there and also have all the million and one forms.
Sorry not to be any more specific, but we literally had nothing else to show them either.



This makes no sense now - I'm sure I replied to a question about evidence of returning to the uk!

[Cpt. Relax]

How was your experience with EFT?

[Justine]

OK - Please bear in mind that I wasn't the one actually learning to fly.

Here we go
He signed up for the APP
Did his PPL, Night rating and something else (can't remember what). He then did his ATPLs via distance learning with Bristol GS, staying in Fl to study and do a little bit of hour building , flying back to the UK for the intensive bit of the course and exams.
He then did his ME/IR between FL and then Shoreham (now at Bournemouth)
Then the FI course.
Due to many circumstances we then came back to the UK and he did his FI exam here and works here as an instructor.
The circumstances were purely personal, things like wanting our daughter to go to school here and not in the US.

All the way through EFT were very up front and honest about costs. He was happy with the instruction he received.
It was a bit more expensive than we had planned, but the costs quoted are for minimum hours and don't take exam fees into account.
We were there during the hurricanes and while alot of damage occurred, they began repairs very quickly and have managed to improve the situation with more briefing rooms and better IT etc.

I can't tell you anything about the accommodation they now use as I believe thay are using the old Pan Am facilities now which are on the airport itself.
We rented a small house in Vero while there which was very affordable compared to rents here. There is alot of rented accom available out there, so people do have a choice. If they are still using the shared housing in Vero for students it was OK, not great, just OK.

You will need a car, so if you don't take their arrangements you will need to either buy or privately hire a car. We bought a car as we were there as a family, took drivers tests etc. (Added adavantage as if you have a Florida lisence you get discounts at places like disney)

As I say I can't tell you a whole lot about the school itself, just generalities, but if anyone wants any other info about the location or anything I will try to answer the best I can

[Cpt. Relax]

For what company is your friend working now, and what is he flying?

Do you think the staff at EFT Florida (there is no more EFT UK) are honest people?
Are the people happy at EFT and how is the environment in Florida?
Friendly people?

[renright]

A bit off the topic here, but I head out to EFT on the 13th of March to start phase 1. I was thinking that maybe I will be able to keep a weekly diary of how things go out there.

[Cpt. Relax]

That would be very nice!

I would be a very interested reader :)


ps: Will you be staying in the lodging that EFT provides?

[AlphaMale]

Ren that sounds good to me :)

[BigGrecian]

There's already two CPL diary's on PPrune both from EFT - can't seem to find the link at the moment though.

I'll edit this post if I find them.

[Cpt. Relax]

It would be a great source of information if there would be a tirth...

[config-2]

Hi,
I'd be interested to hear from people who completed the Multi/IR with EFT with part of the training completed in the USA and the final part plus test conducted in the UK. Did you find the instruction out in the USA good enough to cope with the IR here, and were the hours spent in Bournemouth enough to get you through the IR comfortably or was extra training necessary-and if so for which particular aspects of the course was the extra training required?
Like most people I am finding it difficult to chose a flight training organisation and would appreciate good honest feedback.
Thank you very much for your help.

[KrazyKraut]

Config, there are only a few truly "bad" schools which you should probably avoid at all costs. You can find out which ones they are by researching on the archive for this forum - your question has been asked before many, many times.

The bottom line is that different schools are right for different people - if you want fast and cheap training you will not go to a school where training takes longer and costs more - obvious, right? But in that case you shouldn't expect the training quality to be quite the same. The fact that a bottom-tier and a top-tier FTO provide training towards the same licence is about the only similarity between them. There's no magic formula why some places are much cheaper than others - corners have to be cut to be cheap.

You need to decide what you actually want/need just as you would if you're buying a car. You can buy a Fiat or an Audi, they do much the same thing - get you from A to B - but an Audi buyer won't want a Fiat and a Fiat buyer won't buy an Audi for a number of reasons.

In that sense: EFT offers a product with which many people who go there are happy whereas others might not be - but that's the case at any FTO.

Yeah,

KK

[shetland54]

I heard that it is harder to convert a Canadian licence to JAA, compared of converting JAA to a Canadian Licence. Is that true?

I would like to work in Canada, but realistically, I only have British citizenship. I am thinking of doing my flight training in the US or in Canada as the training in the UK is very expensive.

Anyone with any advise or experience, please let me know.

Thank you




KrazyKraut: Any approved JAA FTO in the USA, Canada or in Europe can convert your Canadian licence to JAA. That includes EFT - but mind, EFT can't do your JAA IR conversion, since the skill test must be taken in the UK and not in Florida.

[Farrell]

Someone mailed me earlier with a list of questions and I have decided to give my replys here so that you can all read them.

They related to questions I'm sure you all have about EFT - just have a look and decide for yourselves but PLEASE don't flood my inbox with questions. I have a lot to do at the moment workwise.

(Big Grecian might be able to better explain the 200 hours FAA versus 100 hours JAA rules a little better, but below is my take on it anyway - cheers mate and see you for beers in the sandpit soon I hope!)

Cheers.

"Hello
The 200hr ME course is great but remember that if you are planning on using those hours in a JAA environment that you can only count 100 of them.
The reason for this is that the FAA allows BOTH PF and PNF to log flight hours due to the "safety pilot" condition(Big Grecian????) . (All flights are class as IFR and therefore one pilot is always checking the other's progress - however, JAA doesn't recognise that position so therefore you can only log the hours that you were PF or P1 in JAAspeak)

Customer Service - short and to the point; they deliver what they say and contrary to opinions on the forum, they will help you out as much as they can. Mike Cohen is a nice guy but if you whine, he will get annoyed. Just be straight and be prepared for him to be direct with you - but he will help and in particular will go out of his way to help if it is his fault.

You will also have to deal with TJ Mete who is in charge of visas. She will constantly shout at you and treat you like you were five years old. Just shout back - loudly! I think she likes the debate but deep down she's ok.

Efficiency of scheduling vs unnecessary delays - any delay will be necessary. Usually due to something broken that has to be fixed and is on the aircrafts MEL. Remember that as an airline pilot in the future, you will be sitting on the ramp for hours sometimes, usually because of something small.

Probability of finishing the Prof.Pilot program in 6 months - not going to happen. You will probably get all the training done - but it takes a seriously good student to be able to do that. You will fail some stuff and have to retrain but that is just the life of a student pilot. Remember that you will have to instruct there for a year too!

Maintenance practices and aircraft reliabilty - maintenance practice is by the book. No exceptions. I have gone at the throats of other posters on the forum because of stupid claims that Ari's airplanes are not checked. They are constantly. Every hour is logged and then the planes are checked every 100 hours as per FAA requirements. I have seen many a tearful student being told "NO" when asked if they could let the aircraft run to 101 or 105 hours. The guy simply will not take the risk.
The aircraft are as reliable as any other BE76 Duchess. But like all piston craft, they are cantankerous and moody. They don't break down very much but you have to treat them nice. (You'll know what I mean when you start flying them - don't jam throttles forward etc. these are true pilot's planes)

Quality of Instruction - second to none.

Experience of International Students - it varies. Some love the place. Some hate it. It is usually down to culture. And language. The guys I know who like it have a great time. Me included.

The chief instructor is ex-French air force and one of their top instructors is Danish.

Management practices - hardline, but fair and they are very efficient. But don't whine. This is a flight school and whining is a no-no. The more you progress into your training, the more you will realise that some problems and delays are a fact of flying life.
That's it."

[henriksch]

Hi
I can also help with any questions regarding Ari Ben. I did their pro course, and instructed. Ended up with 800 hours, 570 multi before leaving.
The FAA/JAA rule for the timebuilding is the the acknowledgement of the safety pilot.
One pilot is under the hood - All this time the other pilot (PNF) log safety pilot.
PNF can only log this when PF is under the hood in VFR conditions (not much use for a safety pilot in IFR conditions).
You can log all the time you are in command under JAA. So if you go there, and want to log the hours JAA, then make sure u dont fly under the hood (ie in IMC conditions)..Then you are the PIC, and PNF cannot log it.. Not your problem though, and most American dont seem to care.

@Farrell
Duchess dont have a MEL...But an AEL..;)

I think that now Thomas is their 2 year instructor (the instructor that fly with other instructor wannabees), It is possible to be done in 6 -7 months.
I loved it there, and would have liked to stay (damn visa people). Mike is a no b......t guy. The price you get is what you pay..
I was told 29.5 usd (back in the cheeper fuel days'), and I finished at just that + test fees (300 + ac pr flight test and 90 usd pr written).

[Cpt. Relax]

They told me that all timebuilding (ME 100h) will be done as P1/PIC.

[henriksch]

It is in a FAA logbook.

You can also do it JAA. See my previous post.

[Cpt. Relax]

Any students there now?

[Farrell]

Captain Relax....

I don't mean to be rude, but you have been discussing EFT and other flights schools for months and months at this stage.

The school is fine. The training is fine. The instructors are fine. The owners are fine. The planes are fine. The accommodation is fine. The food is fine. The airport is fine. The charges are fine. The weather is fine.

There is only so much that you can be told about a school before you have to choose one.

Just go and get your licence mate. Otherwise you will become the "Eternal Wannabee" :}

Good luck

Farrell

[Firegoofy]

Hello,

do someone know cheap accomodation close to the EFT Base? I think i will do my CPL there but $35 per night are a lot. If you compare to Ari Aviation they want about $500 a month.

Thank you
Firegoofy

[henriksch]

I think you can get 550 a month at EFT

[config-2]

Hi,
Could any current/recent CPL students let me know how they found the instruction/training at EFT? Is the 3 weeks quoted reasonable? I would certainly be allowing for 4 weeks just in case. I am now in a postition of being able to afford to commence training and would appreciate the current feedback.
Thank you for your help.

[Firegoofy]

Hi Heniriksch,

$550 a month are impossible. Now they've give me a very good price for accomodation with my family and shared car.

I decided now to do my IR and CPL with them in September and October. Is someone else there between this time?

Cheers

[henriksch]

Hi

I am not sure what you mean by impossible, cause that is what I paid when I was there.. And 500 at Aviator.

[Cpt. Relax]

35$ a day, accomodation (electricity, phone, ... included) and a shared car.

Not negotiable.

[Firegoofy]

Same info do I have, too. In first it looks expensive, but if you look for the price of a rental car, then $35,- with shared car are fine.

So it is important to have a car, because the bus will run only every two hours :ugh:

Cheers

[renright]

I have just finished phase 1 of the APP course with EFT. I found the school to be very professional and the level of instruction to be excellent. I completed all my licences - FAA/JAA PPL and night rating in a reasoanble time frame The timebuilding was another matter though, mainly due to the amount of bushfires burning in Florida during the month of May I did not build the time as quickly as I would have wanted.

I will try to talk about the points mentioned in previous posts:
School/Instruction
As I said above I had no problems with EFT. I just kept an eye on my account and everything was pretty striaght forward. No mystery fees. The instuctors are all excellent and go out of the way to help you if you have any questions or concerns.

Aircraft
Like any other school aircraft go down for maintainance and its just one of those things you just learn to live with. Fortunately I was never really affected by the a/c going down. I think i only lost about 4 to 5 slots in total to aircraft going down while I was at the school. So no complaints there.
CPL guys might have a differnet story since there is only one Arrow to cater for the CPL, but that did not afect me.

Accomodation.
The accom. used by the school is about 30mins from the school. The cost is
$35/per day and this includes all bills and a car - one car per apartment. There is a shuttle bus that runs to and from the school 6 days a week. The standard of apartments is ok but when I go back to EFT I will be sorting out my own living arrangements, mainly because there are a lot of apartments to rent in the area for a lot cheaper than $35 a day!

PM if you want any more detailed info

[Rosie Jane]

Hi Renright

Sent you a PM

Rosie

One Life....live it

[Firegoofy]

Currently i've applied by EFT for my IR, Night Rating and CPL in September. Is there an other student, too?

What is about uniform? do i have to wear someone?

Thank you renright for the detailed description of this school. I'm looking forward to beginn my training with them.

Cheers
Firegoofy

[AlphaMale]

Cpt Relax - You still due to start flying in Aug?

[AlphaMale]

To the best of my ability yes.

In the process of buying an apartment so the funds I did have have dropped somewhat. But I'll be renting my place when I go to EFT and when I have finished my course (2 years) I'll come back to the UK with the relief that I am already on the property ladder.

I'll remorgauge my place so the payments are matched by the rent money - which should be one less thing to think about when I am studying/flying.

Not really that sure how much the course is going to set me back - that is why I PM'd you. I did have contact with EFT via e-mail about costs/earnings but nothing it all that clear and I want to make sure I don't run out of funds toward the end and can't complete an IR conversion etc.

But I think I'm halfway with raising funds and with a pay rise around the corner Jan/Feb 09 should be a good date to start the APP Multi :ok: ... By which time you might/should be an Instructor.

[AlphaMale]

Thanks Cpt.

You have an e-mail from me.

I have looked at the prices but I am looking to break them down further.

I might buy some $'s when it looks like they might slump, No harm having $10k in my account for the ready.

Thanks

[Mountain.View]

Hey Guys

A little help if possible
Reading the thread, EFT are getting positive feed back :ok:
Just wondering has anyone out there done the FastTrack Jet course lasting 12months

If so are your FI all previous students or is this just for the PPL??:confused:

Any info would be great
Thanks
MV

[Eaag.]

Choosing a Flight school is a Formidable task.
Helo. I Am From Guatemala. I would like to start my pilot training in USA in 2 months. I dont have any license. and I want to take a professional pilot program from zero to commercial with instrument and multi-engine ratings.

Choosing a good flight school is a Formidable task.
I want a good flight school because I want to become an airline pilot.

flight safety is a good school but it is expensive for me.

please Recommend me a flight school for professional flight training.

I have a list of flight school.

American Flyers in Dallas Forth Worth,
Delta Connection Academy.
ADF Airways.
Orlando Flight training.
Ormond beach Aviation.
Phoenix East Aviation.
Professional flight training. in Ft lauderdale,
Regional Airline Academy.
Kemper Aviation
Europe American Aviation.
West Wind.
Air Safety Academy

please recomend me A flight school.

[AlphaMale]

Eaag

This is a formidable EFT thread and not a US FTO thread :}

There is also no need to ask the same question in 3 threads :rolleyes:

:cool:

[deepgreen]

Hi everyone,
I am new here and as much as I saw this forum is great so I was hoping you could help me to, I have a few questions.
I am in college doing an engineering course and it will take me a few more years to finish it. Waiting to finish my studies to start flying seems too long, I would be 25 then. I don`t think 25 is too old to start flying, but I am not sure if it would be easy to find a job with all those young people who start flying after high school.
So, I was thinking to start next summer, I will have 3 months off. I think it would be enough time to do my PPL, would it?I would do the rest next summer if it is possible to do the whole thing that way. I see many flight schools offer integrated courses, but could the training be split into 2 or 3 parts?
And does anybody know what kind of licences do you need to be able to fly an air-taxi (it would be a great business where I live)?
I am looking forward to any piece of information you can give me.
Ciao

[Beefy_EMA]

Did davey147 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=83307) get back to us on whether you could do all your FAA training at Ari Ben Aviator, (PPL, FI, CPL, MEIR) and convert the PPL, FI, CPL to JAR at EFT? Which he worked out to be $20k cheaper.

I am personally looking at this route, looking to start next year and would like the best bang for my buck.

[AlphaMale]

Did davey147 get back to us on whether you could do all your FAA training at Ari Ben Aviator, (PPL, FI, CPL, MEIR) and convert the FI & CPL to JAR at EFT?

Not that I am aware of. However I am put off with the posts and PM's I've had saying that Ari Ben is a little backward in coming forward and although EFT use the same planes etc they are better managed. On this note I *think* I'll stick with the Multi APP with EFT. Also there was a couple of questions asked about P1 time at Ari Ben ... not sure if the same applies to EFT?

Looking forward to hearing more from Cpt. Relax ;)

[davey147]

Hi, sorry I forgot all about it.

I did visit Ari Ben and EFT back in May.

The answer is yes, you can go to Ari Ben and do you FAA training, then to EFT to do your JAA conversions. In fact as far as I understood it, people who are on the EFT APP course are taught by Ari Ben instructors whilst doing the FAA training, its just $20k more expensive for some reason.

The schools seem nice, a little small, it was very busy when I visited. Overall the students I spoke to were happy with Ari Ben, I didnt meet students from EFT, but they are in the same building.

I have made the decicision not to go to Ari Ben or EFT just down to the fact that I didnt like the area, Ft Pierce is not very nice (sorry to anyone who lives there) and I was planning on spending 2 years in the States, so havibg to live there was not an option for me. Apparantly most of the students live in Vero Beach, which is very nice, but I couldnt really afford a car to drive down each day.

Only a small problem, which probably wouldnt put most people off :)

I suggest that you take some time out and visit as many schools in the USA as you can before you spend any money on training, its a large investment you are making, and youve got to make sure that you are 100% happy with what you are doing, if not, dont do it.

Hope this helps, if anyone has any specific questions, I will try to help (please remember though, I was only there for 2 hours)

[AlphaMale]

Thank you very much Davey, It's making me think twice when you mention the two points being the area and the $20k extra. :\

Guess I'll keep my options open.

Thanks again.

[BigGrecian]

"Which he worked out to be $20k cheaper."

Good luck with that.
It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.
This is a false economy - trust me - I train conversion and most of the time they end up paying a lot more as they DO NOT convert in minimum hours.

If you want to fly JAA > train JAA.
Flying FAA without instructing is a very big false economy.

[Beefy_EMA]

Davey147, did you find out why EFT students are charged more than the ABA students for accommodation/car hire?

Also, if you did choose to live in Vero Beach, does this affect the relationship with the student and EFT?

I know flight schools in the US generally use students as a cash cow, possible none US students more so.

[AlphaMale]

It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.

But looking at EFT's website they go through the FAA licence and then the conversion. So no different to ABA and doing the 'Pro 200 Hour Multi-Engine Course' and then converting the FAA's to JAA's at EFT?

Looking at doing the above but unsure of the cost for converting?

PPL conversion = ? in the US
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK

Can you convert an FAA Multi CFII to a JAA FI or does it require taking a full JAA course from scratch?

Thanks :ok:

[davey147]

At the time accommodation was slightly more expensive at EFT than Ari Ben, I dont know why, they were the same houses at Vero Beach. I did ask, but the answer to the question was avoided, so no I cant really give you an answer sorry.

You can convert the FAA CFI to a JAA FI, the course would involve a lot less ground school hours, I cant remember exactly but a search in the lasors would get you the answer.

The EFT APP includes the FAA CFI conversion to JAA FI (R) this is the cut down conversion course.

I agree with BigGrecian going the FAA route isnt really an advantage unless you do some instructing, the prices turn out the same in the end. But the good thing is by going to EFT and Ari Ben, the schools are together, so the conversions shouldnt be a problem. I personally know of a few students who have got their FAA IR in EFT (Ari Ben) and returned to the UK and passed within the minimum of 15 conversion time, I think the school they used was Airways Flight Training.

If you havent done so, take a look on the JetCareers.com forum, this has a forum dedicated to Ari Ben, there is lots of useful info there.

[davey147]

PPL conversion = ? in the US
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK


Also if doing the FAA route first, you wouldnt convert your FAA PPL to a JAA one, just go directly for the CPL conversion. The CPL conversion is cheap, probably about $4 - 5k, the same for the JAA FI. Just make sure you get good instuction for the FAA IR, try to get a UK or European instructor who can teach you the European way as well as the FAA way, this way it shouldnt be too hard when you come to convert.

You only need an ICAO PPL (FAA) to start your ATPL theory.

[AlphaMale]

You only need an ICAO PPL (FAA) to start your ATPL theory.

That answers my question I was going to ask next, reason for converting the PPL to JAA was to sit the ATPL exams via BGS and then go back out there and convert my CPL and FI and possible employment with Ariben/EFT. (Seems I don't need to convert after)

After 12 months come home convert the ME-IR to JAA and get an MCC done.

Thanks for your help Davey ... You have a PM coming your way.

[henriksch]

Hey
Just my take on the whole thing.. Since I allready did it.
I would do the procourse at ABA.. And while instructing study the ATPLs..
Some instructors have done this. Also now ABA pay their instructors $35k a year.
Also if you study what is required on the procourse, you will have a head start on most of the ATPL subjects. (Mostly POF, Perf, Met, Flight planning, Nav and Radio Nav.. I think..
Then after 2 years (J-1 expire), you convert your FAA to JAA at EFT.
My MEP and CPL conversions were about $3k INCL fees and 170A. (Amazing how much simpler a MEP check ride is when you have 600 hours dual given on a twin..:-))
You can then convert your IR anywhere in Europe you want.. Almost everyone who has just done 500 hours of ME-IR instruction, wont find this to hard..