Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop

[Vfrpilotpb]

After what seemed like some braindead idea from a Manchester Public House landlord to aquire the Vulcan from Mr Bateson at EGNH, to sit in his garden where his drinkers would be able to shade themselves from the Sun has finally fallen through,

The BBC north West news service anounced today that Mr Bateson has now agreed for some scapman to remove the A/c from the site it has occupied for many years, Whilst this A/c has been a wonderful reminder of the ability of the British engineers and the RAF to have and fly such superb looking pieces of kit, it is sad to see this sort of end befall this Vulcan.

Mr Bateson must have spent at least 50pence trying to preserve it, the poor old girl has stood on flat tyres and knackered landing struts for at least the last 12 years with the cockpit windows missing for about the same length of time. any Ppruners out there flown this craft?

Sad end!

PeterR-B
Vfr:{

[PPRuNe Radar]

It's gone .............

Thanks to the PistonHeads Forum for these pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/cerberus1953/vulcan/Image1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/cerberus1953/vulcan/IMG_1702.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/cerberus1953/vulcan/IMG_1705.jpg

Shame on Mr Bateson who did nothing for that aircraft since it arrived in 1983.

[foxmoth]

Very sad sight:{

[G085H1TE]

Bateson makes my blood boil.

He bought XL391 for £5k from the RAF, didn't even spend the 50p on preserving it that Vfrpilotpb suggested, letting it decay to such an extent that the local council condemned it. He finally sticks it on eBay, with no indication as to the terrible state it was in, and an idiot landlord buys it for £15k without even setting eyes on it. Said idiot landlord, realising what a pile of poo it is, says he doesn't want it any more and a legal battle ensues. Outcome - ownership reverts back to Bateson along with a £4k out or court settlement.

Bateson then attempts to sell the engines on eBay (ha! ha! stop you're killing me!) with no takers. Bateson then sells aircraft to scrappie for £5k.

For years he rejected all attempts to save it, or even the cockpit section, saying that he wants £10k, no negotiation. Now nothing is left. B@stard.

[BEagle]

Equally, shame on the MoD for selling arcraft to people who were incapable of keeping them in half-decent condition.

All the more reason why, in addition to the outstanding efforts of the Vulcan to the Sky campaign www.tvoc.co.uk , the 655 Maintenance and Preservation Society www.xm655.com and the Vulcan Restoration Trust www.xl426.com deserve all the support they can in order to keep these wonderful old aircraft in running condition.

During the Cold War, the V-bombers were a conerstone of the UK's deterrent policy. Future generations must be allowed not just to see, but also to hear them operating as they did back in the days when the UK could afford an air force.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Ah yes, Vulcan to the Sky the group with the wonderful tag line
"We have taken our aircraft to bits, send us money to put it back together or we'll scrap it"

[tipsy2]

I looked at those sites as well and wondered if they were spruiking for funds or not. Obviously they weren't 'cos linking to them is not allowed on this site, well I'm not allowed to.

Keeping some aircraft for historical purposes is to be encouraged. I don't have an answer to those that also make a living out of doing so.

tipsy:confused:

[Tempsford]

It is sad to see an aircraft such as the BLK Vulcan 'reduced'. However, what chance did it ever have being located near to the Irish Sea? Irrespective of how much time, effort and money would have been spent on it, the Vulcan at BLK was doomed as soon as it landed there unless it was placed under cover in a controlled environment. People must put emotion to one side. What should have happened is that an agreed number of Vulcans should have been preserved and the rest 'reduced'.
I would rather have two or three well preserved aircraft types in an environment where their longevity can be given in tens of years rather than in less than ten years. To carry out minimal maintenance and storage procedures on aircraft such as the Vulcan and hoping that the ravages of time will have a limited effect on structures, systems, gear, transparencies etc is rather like the little chap sticking his finger in the hole in the dyke. Please, lets stop wasting our time on lost causes and getting all emotional. Those agencies either selling or donating aircraft must ensure that the people taking the aircraft on are fully researched as to their capabilities to preserve or operate aircraft. I have seen far too many aircraft rotting being 'cared for' by well intended people in museums and this has got to stop. By the way, rotting aircraft in museums is not limited to smaller operations, just look at the external state of the Belfast at Cosford as an example.
I do blame the authorities. Rather than have a controlled preservation process, the UK has massive holes in aircraft types that should have been preserved (Whitley, Stirling (complete Halifax... not composite), operational Wellington, Hampden, Albemarle etc etc etc, there are no complete originals left.
Our US cousins had a different approach (and the money I have no doubt), they appear to have done the Noahs Ark approach and preserved in most cases at least one of each type (see Wright Patterson Museum as an example).
My point is that when a view is being taken to preserve aircraft types, we must look at retaining a limited number of all types so that future generations will benefit and we should not allow numbers of complex aircraft such as the Vulcan to be placed in the care of dedicated, enthusiatic amateurs who through no fault of their own will only delay the process of such aircraft returning to their natural state.

Gets off soap box and dons tin hat

Temps

[Vfrpilotpb]

Temps,
To a certain extent you are right, it must be some sort of "British thing" for you only need to look at some of the very old buildings around our small island that have fallen to the roar of the demolition ball.

Re the Vulcan at EGNH, I only remarked that it was sad to see this happen, for if you intend to keep something, rather than purchase and let stand, it would have been far better to purchase and have the ability to preserve, Bateson however is known as a slightly, should we say "Eccentric sort"

Vfr

[Tempsford]

VFR
I agree with your comments
Temps

[Tempsford]

Over 150 posts..jeez I must get out more often...or I'll end up like Beagle...worrying or what (TIC!).

Temps

[HZ123]

Come to Southend-on-Sea airport and see ours run up and regularly taxied. Afine site is.

[mfaff]

Temps,

Right answer, wrong logic...

The USAF or USAAF had no more a 'preservation policy' than the RAF...but they do did ahve a far great desire to see airframes sotred or reduced to scrap under theri control ..eg Davis Monthna, Kingsville etc etc plus a re-use programme...like targets in China Lake etc which has permitted the long term storage of huge numbers of aircraft at near zero cost...

So B-17s/ B-29s/ B-24s/ B-25s and so forht were able to be stored for longer at low cost and either sold on or displyed much later...for example the relative scarcity of the B-47 and B-36 shows a comparable lack of importance being attached to such large cold war warriors.... or KC-97s, the list is long.

What is important is that we learn not to let this occur again.. even types that today may be mundane and boring should be preserved in a limited number of examples.. just how many Jetstreams will be saved? so that a complete historical record may be preserved.

To be honest its better to see s single well preserved cockpit rather than a poorly maintained enitre aircraft, especially in the case of the Vulcan where there are other much more complete examples being preserved nationally...let alone in the US.

[Tempsford]

Interesting concepts mfaff, but my logic is not totally incorrect.There are one off remaining types at Wright Patterson and they do appear to have a policy of preserving types. The luxury that the US has is areas where long term storage is possible and therefore steps can be taken to preserve various types. The US also tend to have larger numbers of types manufactured than the UK and their 'reducing' policy is possibly more tightly controlled than in the UK.
My concern is that we have gone too far the other way and have a number of examples of the same types in various states of decay across the UK. The pictures above of the Vulcan remind me of similar demises(?) of aircraft over recent years and I am afraid that this will comtinue to be the case for years to come. I agree with virtually all you say except your words about cockpit preservation. Rather like stuffed heads on a wall, I always wonder what happened to the rest of the animal.

Temps

[Tempsford]

See also 'BA Collection at Cosford' thread which is linked to what is being discussed here. Picture of a Vulcan being 'reduced' on that thread as well. I can also remember another Vulcan being 'reduced' at CWL and for me, one of the worst examples in recent years..the Hendon Beverly.

Temps

[mfaff]

Temps,

Sorry to disabuse you the notion of a 'collections' policy of the USAF.. its a relatively new policy...

The policy was of keeping important aircraft as a way of 'selling' the Air Force.. to boost enrollment.

It was only in the arrival of the late 70s that a 'policy' of the collection was established...and so they ransacked every corner of the US to complete what they had....

AFBs were stripped of gate gardians and trainig airframes etc...

If you want to see what an effective policy is look at the Smithsonian.. they have a policy, they scout out particualr airframes to keep...

I agree that the RAFM have not been as disciplined as one would like. nor funded as well as could be hoped...

As to heads on the wall...rather that than total extinction..

[Tempsford]

Thanks for the clarification

Temps

[Onan the Clumsy]

I can't stand to see her in her death throes, so here's some pics from an earlier time. She still looks like crap, but not as much.

BTW, does anyone know if Bateson ran Batesone's toy shop up near the GPO in town?


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/onan_the_clumsy/Vulcan/78fdfe76.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/onan_the_clumsy/Vulcan/P1010014.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/onan_the_clumsy/Vulcan/P1010013.jpg


...ok, One picture :rolleyes:

[Vfrpilotpb]

Was this Vulcan the one that dropped munitions on the Argys runway in the Falklands Island conflict, and if it is, was it the only Vulcan to see proper active service.??

Vfr

[simon niceguy]

Vfrpilotpb.

I think the aircraft that dropped the bombs was XM 607, 44 Sqd.

Simon.

[PPRuNe Radar]

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/vulcan/full/mof97101.jpg

Indeed Mike .. and marked up appropriately ;)

The Brazilian flag is because this is the Vulcan whose in-flight refuelling probe broke whilst attempting to get back to Ascension, resulting in a diversion to Rio De Janeiro. The aircraft stayed for several weeks under impound. Wonder if the crew did too ??

[Conan the Librarian]

Think the crew were out of Brazil in a few days. If memory serves right, the capt was Neil McD who was also the display pilot in the mid 80s, though memory is a bit hazy.

Conan

[The Rocket]

VFRPilotpb,
No, that distinction belongs to XM607, who is currently suffering the same fate as the Blackpool Vulcan, as regards being left outside to gradually rot away.

The last time I saw her, she was gradually bubbling and rusting away to an early scrapyard.


AND THIS IS THE ONE OWNED BY THE RAF

[Vfrpilotpb]

Rocket Ive seen your thread , and quite frankly I think it is a disgrace, to keep one Vulcan looking good and with nice shiny Oleos would not take that much funding, kept as say a gate guardian at some relevent Vulcan base, but possibly now getting to late to do anything, would the RAF do or allow that with any of the BBMF A/c somehow I doubt it, but I feel the Vulcan and to that matter the Victor are worthy of presevation (not flying) so the children of today and tomorow who will be the TAX payers of the future will be able to see what the Brits did, during the Cold War period.


After all they poured many millions into Henry the VIIIs Flag ship after it was found crushed and totally knackered in the mud!


Vfr

[mfaff]

Err... then I guess the two Vulcans, the Victor and Victor cockpit and the Valiant all held by the RAFM don't count?

Let alone the Vulcan and Victor held by the IWM....

Or the Vulcan at East Fortune...

All of these are state funded....

Whilat it is always great to see as many airframes as possible preserved the quality of that preservation has to be the primary driver..

[Spot 4]

As seen on a well known auction website:

http://i23.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/23/4e/54_1_b.JPG
£1000 each for the 4 engines and 2 grand for whats left of the cockpit. Dosnt strike me as being value for money, I would rather see the old girl in a recycling blast furnace after what has happened to her.

[MReyn24050]

In 1956 one of Avro's Type 707research delta aircraft migrated from the UK to Australia. After seven years of test flying it retired to a suburban garden. The aircraft Avro 707A WD280, following its 7 years of research flying, was held in storage at Avalon until 1967 when the Department of Supply, on behalf of the British Air Ministry, sold it at auction to a Mr Geoffrey Mallet for A$1,000. The aircraft was then transported from Avalon to Mr Mallet's home in Williamstown and then lifted into his 44ft long garden. In February 1994 the Aeroplane Monthly reported that the aircraft was being well maintained by Mr Mallet and was in outstanding condition, quite a contrast to XL391. Can our friends in OZ confirm that WD280 is still being well looked after?

[Spot 4]

The Vulcan did not sell and having seen photographs of the inside of it, I wouldnt pay £20 never mind £2000. It has been butchered beyond recognition by trophy hunters and frankly it truly is scrap metal; for it would take a lot of alcohol and imagination to believe otherwise.