Capped Actuals?

[Cockney Geezer]

Before I start I admit the full details haven't been released but as of March I hear that capped actuals are coming in to replace issued rates downroute.
As I understand, you pay upfront for any meals/laundry etc up to the capped allowance, which will equate to how much you would have been issued in rates before. You then get home and spend hours negotiating with the computer to claim back your money. Which no doubt in typical RAF style will not arrive in your bank account untill the following decade!
And there was me thinking the new year would would freshen my outlook on work and think things aren't getting that bad...
So if you get stuck down route for a week or so, you're now expected to front possibly £30 - £40 a day for food for a week. Approx £210 - £280. I'm certainly gonna be tight for cash after this week so how are the likes of the stewards and engineers going to manage? I know, we could eat stinging nettle soup for a week! (thankyou moortrek)
I'm sure this looks like a fabulous money saving idea in the eyes of the admin world but it sounds a load of b@//@x to me.:*
Thoughts?
CG

[FOMere2eternity]

Also believe it's one of those wheel re-invention things. Not sure what cycle we're on but it will return to normal after the concerns you have both raised arise. The best option by far, in terms of simplicity and fairness, would be a flat rate similar to rate 1s in the UK. Everyone gets the same irrespective of rank (even some junior ranks can read newspapers nowadays) and in some destinations you win, in others you lose.

Several years ago I was the one passenger in the back of C130 with about six Herc crews who had their own imprest. While they handed out dosh to each other for a burger and a few beers, I wasn't entitled to any hard cash. However, the captain was responsible for me as a passenger and told me I could have a three course meal in the rather flash restaurant.

An hour or so later I was in the restaurant as the only punter, being serenaded by some bird on a piano, eating lobster, crayfish, steak etc etc. (I was, not the pianist). Think my bill was about $50 compared to the cash each of the crew members got of about $30.

As is human nature, this will happen the world over AGAIN - annoyingly because we haven't learnt to learn. Reason 837...

[Excommunicator]

Another example of the complete lack of trust that the bean counters have for crews.
As mentioned above, this will only add to the already ridiculous admin burden placed on crews in the name of accounting for public money to the last penny.
Would a civilian company work like this? Of course not. If, as FOM suggests crews were given, say, $50 a day, (and fractions thereof) win some, lose some, you could abolish whole tiers of administration, saving countless thousands.....
Chances of them changing the rules to disband their jobs......?

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Would Sir like the striped lobster or the lesser spotted lobster?

Mmmm...er....sod it, one of each.

I look forward to the challenge.

[airborne_artist]

If you are unfortunate enough to be in a place where food is not available (ie most places at 0100) then tough

Sounds like loady/co should pack some MREs to cater for such an eventuality :E

[DME MILOS]

I'm sure they'll manage to Club Class a few admin types around the World to set the capped rates and check up on crews when they are away...:hmm:
How about a flat rate of £40/50 per 24 hrs,wherever you go, on base,off base, doesn't matter, you gain on some stops and lose on others. "Lean" all of the jobs in handbrake house that spend hours collating every imprest and save some money that way. As far as accountability goes we'd probably have to employ some form of trust :uhoh: and do random percentage checks of the imprests to satisfy the treasury. End result...Aircrew happy, far less niff naff and trivia to keep the admin world busy:ok:

[JessTheDog]

Civil servants are self-certifying, ie. they sign their own claims and keep receipts for spot checks. Presumably Her Majesty's Armed Forces have neither the integrity nor competence to carry out this minor task honestly...or perhaps they don't have a public representative body that can say "this is b0ll0cks".

[oldfella]

A flat rate win some/lose some type imprest has always sounded a good idea but in theory a guy could end up on an always lose month, or months, and nobody should end up out of pocket for being on duty.

Under the new system, in theory, if the capped actuals are reasonable, nobody should end up out of pocket - eventually.

The problem will arise that in asking for detatchment support from units e.g. admin, ops, squippers, etc along comes Bloggs saying that he has been tasked but cannot afford to go away, on duty, for 5 or 6 weeks - what then?

In the ideal case everyone has sufficient funds then 1 week into the job Bloggs gets a phonecall to say that the washing machine/car/tv has blown up at home, had to be repaired and he cannot afford to stay on detachment - what then?

If full internet access is available and claims are able to be sent daily, how often will claims be processed?

Whether away living in a tent or a 5* hotel the system is obliged to transport, accommodate and feed the guys without them being out of pocket.

This is a recipe for disaster.

[Pontius Navigator]

Jess the Dog,
yes, self-certifying and uncapped only what is reasonable. Not only that but tips too.

Who is to say what is reasonable? I have an aversion so small meals and cheap wine - yup, we are allowed a half bottle of Chateau Plonk too!

[southside]

Civil servants are self-certifying, ie. they sign their own claims and keep receipts for spot checks. Presumably Her Majesty's Armed Forces have neither the integrity nor competence to carry out this minor task honestly

Isn't that what JPA is all about. As from March (or is it April) we will all be self signing / Self certifying and completing our own claims - Job done.

[Yeller_Gait]

Pontius,

We cannot even get authorisation to pay baggers tips at the numerous BX's we go to, so what chance is there that we will be able to claim for service tips in restaurants?

The simplest idea of all, as has already been mentioned several times, is that everyone gets a flat rate, for every day that they are away, irrespective of where they are. Yes, some people will do better than others, but the saving in admin personnel and other associated costs would be huge. SAMA knows whenever you are detached, pays you the money, no admin or auditing required. BRILLIANT

[Confucius]

...then collect the receipt and change...
I shall be asking for my change in the smallest possible denominations. Failing that I shall go to a local down route bank with notes and leave with thousands of small coins.
Oh, separate receipts for starter, main, pudding, drinks etc...
Might have to accidently drop them in hydraulic fluid too, or fish 'em out of a filthy drain. I'd love to present a plastic bag full of dog-s*** stained receipts to some admin waller.
'They' think they can f*** our lives, but they can't imagine how much we can f*** theirs.

[BEagle]

Or get your receipts handwritten in the local language?

A Queen's Flight bunch tried that once. Allegedly. Had a few sherbets somewhere in the Sovietski Soyuz, then got a local Boris to give them a receipt......


.......unfortunately, one of the Blunt Ones spoke Russian :rolleyes:


If you got to civilised places which take plastic, actual expenses aren't too bad - if, like mine, your employer reimburses you before you have to pay the credit card bill, that is. I just fax them the receipts once per month which they never query - they just need them to prove to the authorities that they aren't paying a 'hidden extra' salary and evading paying some payroll tax.

I do wonder why on earth the military meddlers find it necessary to bugger about with a system that seems to have worked fine for years. Fine, that is, except for the excessive paperwork and constant cut-backs.

[mrwickets]

This change has got nothing to do with equality or money saving (in rates terms) - simply JPA. The MOD have bought a COTS solution that can't cope with rates as we know and love them. Downside (well one of many) - you still have to fork out upfront; upside (apparently) - the money is back in your bank account within 4 days. Why they can't just give us all GPCs (yes, even ncos) amazes me. Actuals does remind me of recovering a jet from St Dizier once though - chateau briand and claret all round please! Ahhhhh

[propulike]

Just to make sure I got that OK -

The MOD COTS solution JPA would be better if we had GPCs.

Oh. Glad about that. Thanks.

[mrwickets]

Ooops - in coming. Just can't help thinking it would be easier to give those guys that go away alot, and don't necessarily have the benefit(?) of an imprest or second income, something akin to a GPC. Why should any incurred expense go on my plastic for me to claim back? JPA and capped rates are coming, like it or not, so how about another way of skinning an emotive cat.

[philrigger]

Is it possible to get an advance of allowances like the Civil Service do?

"We knew how to moan but we kept it in the NAAFI bar."

[mrwickets]

Up to 90 percent of the anticipated expenditure, if I recall correctly. Don't know if you can do it with JPA though.

[philrigger]

Confucious

If your system is going to work anything like the Civil Service one then the only person who will handle (and smell) the receipts will be you !!! - Unless you get stuffed for an audit inspection. Our system has been going for a few years now and I do not know anybody who has been audited.

"We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar."

[Confucius]

Confucious
If your system is going to work anything like the Civil Service one then the only person who will handle (and smell) the receipts will be you !!! - Unless you get stuffed for an audit inspection. Our system has been going for a few years now and I do not know anybody who has been audited.
"We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar."

I shall let them fester in a sealed plastic bag, ready for an audit.

Besides, I can't imagine our admin wallers NOT auditing them, they audit every imprest at the moment, twice! (Well, they certainly did a couple of years back).