NVG BATTERIES - ever had a problem?

[Dauphineer]

Info from any NVG users required please!

We are in the process of certifying both types of NVG , one uses AA batteries and the other uses Lithiums. The problem is the UK military are the only users of the Lithium powered systems and the data on their reliability is scarce; the manufacture told us they have only had 2 batteries returned to them and that they guarantee a minimum of 8 hours per batt. That conflicts with some stories I have heard from the odd (surprised) operator.

I asked a former AAC user last week when I was out fixing his police 135 and he claims all sorts of nasties have occurred with the Mil lithiums, this conflicts with the maker saying they have never had a problem. Can any one shed any light? Has there ever been a problem with lithiums? Or AA’s for that matter?

Thanks,

[c130jbloke]

2304 hrs for your post - you have no hope as thay are all out flying (and yes I do know it is a Sunday.....)

C130JB

[Radar Muppet]

In short, no. I have flown for a couple of hundred hours using lithium batteries from winter over the UK to summer in the sandpit and have never had a problem (apart from neck strain, of course).

[Spurlash2]

Never had a snag with the mil lithiums and useage was over regularly over 20 hours - this was early 90's. The batts are now, though, changed after each use.
The one snag with the AA lithium is I once used one in a torch and placed the battery the wrong way round to prevent inadvertant illumination, and was mildly surprised to feel the aluminium torch body intensely hot after about 15 minutes. The battery had expanded and was extremely hot to touch and was short finals to going bang, I reckon. A common 'feature' of lithium batts, apparently.

[SASless]

Always used civvie AA's....did a battery check using a tester at start of duty...never had a problem. That little bunny just keeps on drumming!

[PTT]

Best bet is to go to DFS (not the furniture store). They may have a few documented examples of Spurlash2's experiences.

[Ed Winchester]

Or you could try DASC (http://www.mod.uk/dasc/). They weren't disbanded 4 years ago.

[r supwoods]

C130 bloke should know that when heated in sunlight they can go bang .... or fall out causing Loose Articles in cockpit ...... :hmm:

[Secret Squire]

Not as aircrew, but as a mere pongo have used Lithium on PNVGs for seemingly endless amounts of time, and never had a problem with them running out (from the world's smallest battery - why arn't they all like that???)

SS

[Dauphineer]

Thanks Secret,

Your PNVG use a different battery to the Aviation lot. I'm not saying all lithiums are mad, I need to know about the very specific ones used for the flying NVGs.

[Onan the Clumsy]

There's absolutely no reason why I can justify making a reply here, but seeing (no pun intended) as you're talking AAs as an option here...can they be rechargable? If so, what about NiMh?

When I got my digital camera I chose the one with AAs so that I could always put fresh ones in and not rely on a power source to charge up the Lion battery (and also cos it was a wee bit cheaper :ok: ) I could carry spares and buy them in stores, even in enemy countries like Germany.

[country calls]

I too have used the Lithium batt powered goggs in all temps and environments. The only difference which could make a lot of difference is L batts don't fade to nothing like AA's would, they get to a certain charge level then drop out completely. So you go from having a perfectly good tube to a completely dead one. The FJ boys replace them every trip for this very reason. In the trucky world we tend not to (although the squippers say we should), as it is less of a drama. Both tubes on both stick monkeys goggs (which get the batts replaced at different times by the way) all dropping out at the same time, would be very bad luck.
The other note of caution is Lithium batts are no barrel of laughs if they get wet inside and are DAC like you would not believe.
And finally. A big consideration if you are choosing which battery, is how you will get rid of the dead batts when they are finished? I seem to recall that if you intend of disposing more than 50 grams of Li Batts in a year you have to have all sorts of licences and pay a fortune to some recycling plant.

[[email protected]]

Dauphineer - we have had one problem in many years and many many hours of NVG use where a set of goggles was put back in its storage box still switched on. They overheated - no surprise and trashed the goggles. Other than that they have been excellent.

[NR DROOP]

They were also wet when they were put back in the box.

[Safeware]

There has been an incident of (at least) one going bang in a thankfully unoccupied cockpit. Opinion was that if it had done so when worn, the user would have been blinded.

sw

[US Herk]

I have used them while with RAF - no issues, but I was careful. USAF horror stories like many above mean we've switched entirely to AA.

Li - go bang seemingly random (overheat, wet, shorted, no apparent reason, etc), are hazardous when disposed of (must utilise special handling procedures), die off nearly instantly, expensive, hard to get if not in mil supply channels

AA - not nearly as hazardous (no licenses/permits/documentation), don't normally go bang under any circumstance (have seen 'em do it though), easily obtained, cheap, die off rather slowly with reasonable warning to operator.

My vote - AA

[Flt Lt Spry]

Has anyone here actually seen a battery explode?

I understood that explosions in lithium batteries were only caused when they were pierced, burnt or charged at too high a current.

However, I will add "randomly" to my list of "things that cause batteries to explode" if someone can prove me wrong. And it will have to be first-hand evidence, not "my mate in the pub said..." or "I heard of a set that blew up and an SA-14 guided on the flames and hit someone in the head" type stuff.

[Flt Lt Spry]

But actually, the lithium ones fit my camera and AAs fit my MP3 player, so I'm easy.

[US Herk]

Has anyone here actually seen a battery explode?
I understood that explosions in lithium batteries were only caused when they were pierced, burnt or charged at too high a current.
However, I will add "randomly" to my list of "things that cause batteries to explode" if someone can prove me wrong. And it will have to be first-hand evidence, not "my mate in the pub said..." or "I heard of a set that blew up and an SA-14 guided on the flames and hit someone in the head" type stuff.
What about an SA-16?:E
Have seen, first hand, both Li & AA explode. The Li were in an ammo box & I suspect shorted, overheated, & went bang. A fair bit of torn metal, plastic wrapper, & "goo" (technical term) in the box.

The AA was just last week in my cordless mouse!:eek: Random. Just the end cap popped off & small bit of "goo" - wiped down & mouse is running fine! :O

[dervish]

The MoD commisioned both QinetiQ (when they were DRA) and Marconi to carry out ballistic strike tests on Lithium Ion batteries when they were brought into service to supplement Clansman, BOWMAN and BMN replacement. The results were indeed alarming, especially the QQ tests, in which the explosion destroyed the rig holding the battery. Both are available within MoD on video. The effect is not immediate (at least from these tests) so the bearer has the opportunity to offload the radio.

There is a snippet of such an event in the film Black Hawk Down.

[engineer(retard)]

There is a certification issue with Li batteries for use in aircraft and they have to be approved by the Tri-service battery committee. I think there are some tests or standards that they have to pass before they can be approved, but being senile I cannot remember what they are.


regards

retard

[Onan the Clumsy]

If they're that explosive, then why aren't we lobbing them at the enemy? Shurely they're chearper than real ordnance...


Tri-service battery committeedo they live on base...or in town in a flat?

If they were late to work for a flat tyre, would they be put on a charge?

Do their opinions run the entire range from positive to negative?

Is it a terminal career position? What are the plusses and minuses of being involved?

If they had an official poem, would it be an ode?

etc etc etc