Lama accident in dense fog

[tecpilot]

The pilot of a SA 315B Lama helicopter was heavily injured during a high risk take off in extreme fog in a german ski area in Bavaria on friday. The ship was completely destroyed.
After waiting 2 days because of bad weather the crew decided on friday afternoon to try to come home into the weekend. On visibilities from only 30-50m a crewmember tried to guide the helicopter from a snowmobile as a reference point into the valley. The weather in the valley was good.
Short after take off the pilot lost the snowmobile out of sight and touched some trees. A few hundred meters away the ski area with hundreds of skiers was at this time in fully operation. Fortunately no others were injured.

Again dumb helicopter publicity in public :(

[[email protected]]

I can't believe he even thought about trying this - talk about pressonitis, I hope he's learned his lesson.

[Bitmonx]

How stupid. Maybe understandable if the flight was for going to save a life. But just to get home for the weekend (I assume that was the reason as posted) would anybody of you guys follow a Snowmobile down into a valley topped off with fog? Feel sorry for the Lama.:{

[Spunk]

pic of what is left of the Lama...

Lama (http://www.pnp.de/ngen/ngen/CreateImage2.php?Ref=DBild/5o_yv5ok4ah0$x*it06$kb$&AttrName=BildLr)

[Bitmonx]

The pilot is lucky I am not the owner of this Lama. Who's the owner and or what is the Company's name?

[TiPwEiGhT]

Is there anymore photos taken further out to show the full extent of the damage?

I agree witht he comment above... poor lama!

TiP:ugh:

[tecpilot]

Check this for further photos.
photolink (http://media.vol.at/bildserie/Hubschrauberabsturz_in_Mitterfirmiansreut/index.shtml)

Got informations the pilot talked to the cable car operator and the local mountain troopers prior his planned take off but nobody wanted to stopp him! No!!!They were so friendly to release their snowmobile :( for such an experiment.

Interesting is the media statement of the operator:
"Helicopter flying isn't the same like car driving. It's a hot job as we all know. Proportional to the flight hours we are still on the good side."

I have heard a lot of post-accident statements but i confess i was in this case surprised! How can an operator be "on the good side" if one of his pilots is seriously injured or pilots died in the past? Is this the safety attitude in times of JAR-OPS3 and Quality Management???
Feel memories about the "night safety" thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204462 and company attitude.
In the last 15 years the operator lost several (i believe 6 or 7) ships. At least 2 pilots died and others were injured.

The name of the operator? One of the leading austrian helicopter operators!

[Ned-Air2Air]

Looking at the paint scheme of the first pic I would say its one of Wucher Helicopters helos.

[flyer43]

tecpilot

Got informations the pilot talked to the cable car operator and the local mountain troopers prior his planned take off but nobody wanted to stopp him! No!!!They were so friendly to release their snowmobile for such an experiment

Why would the cable car operator and mountain troopers try to stop him? What do they know about helicopter flying in adverse conditions? They would normally assume that the pilot would know what the limitiations are and would plan accordingly ........ sadly it would appear not to be the case this time. Gethomeitis has struck again!

I certainly agree with your comments re "being on the good side" despite this and many other accidents........

[Bitmonx]

It is Wucher Heli's Lama OE-EXE (stands for executed??;)

[Oogle]

Maybe understandable if the flight was for going to save a life.

Sorry Bitmonx - it is not understandable even it was to save a life. If he were, there would be a couple of more casualties. :eek:

[SHortshaft]

Okay, I agree with nearly everything that has been posted on this thread, but…..
“Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt” and also in a Lama… and I suspect that many other Rotorheads have too!

The difference is I did it years ago when people weren’t so politically correct, AND I got away with it.

Let’s not be too hard on the guy who had been stuck for two days in bad weather and under unknown pressures…but yes let us try and get the message across, to both sides of the management divide, that this is too risky and the risk assessment matrix should say “no go”!

[Bitmonx]

Oogle, read my post.......I said if he was GOING for safeing a life. But then again he would have not been alone in the bird which would make it reckless.
Maybe Wucher Heli is happy that they got rid of the Lama as I have been told it is quite difficult to sell one of these days......

[SASless]

Ever flown in the Aleutian Islands....flying in FOG was a "normal" everyday common practice. We used the old tried and true schoolyard method of ...."warmer...warmer...colder...colder...warmer..."to find folks that were off the survey line. Otherwise it was follow the survey lines....up the mainline...left on the 3500 to the 4000...right turn...and so on.

You have not been lost until you have been lost in that kind of vis...and no really nice place to land...especially knowing it might be two...three weeks until the fog lifts enough to see where you are.

It is possible to fly in weather bad enough that you cannot scare a sea gull off a rock.

But...that was a whole different time than nowadays.

[buckhenry212]

Bitmonx...

Imagine you are the owner, can you give me an idea of your next step?

[jammydonut]

How dumb not to have loaded the Lama onto a wagon pulled by Oxen to get it down the mountain.

[Quichotte]

Maybe Wucher Heli is happy that they got rid of the Lama as I have been told it is quite difficult to sell one of these days......

Sure this would be a hard job to sell this wreckage to the insurance! On such accidents it's easy to get a pitiful smile but no money from the agent. Just looking to the small letters on the backside of a insurance contract! "Only insurance cover on operations inside the valid rules and manuals". What's the minimum visibility on VFR flights in Germany? I bet much more than 50m in fog. Couldn't imagine me a insurance is happy to pay out now at least 600.000€.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I am not very susceptible to motion sickness.

I followed a friend down a ski run once in white-out conditions due to heavy fog. He knew the route, I didn't. All I could see was his dark-jacketed body ahead. The lack of any other visual cues, me bouncing around, him bouncing around made me dizzy and eventually I had to stop and vomit. I was seasick!

You cannot remain orientated on a single point for any length of time. Obviously, this accident proves that, but I thought my case was interesting enough to post here amongst you Rotorheads.

QDM

[alouette]

Sorry...what happened? was he alone...hate to say this but this dude must have been high on something. if its a no go then it is a NO GO. spent the night in a chalet, shag a woman, have fun...but dont commit a stupid maneuver like this one...I feel sorry for the helicopter:mad:

[Oogle]

Alouette

Agree wholeheartedly!

[alouette]

Referring on one of the previous posts on the difficulty on selling Lamas these days. Frankly, I think it still a good workhorse for the mountains. Crashing em to get rid of them on purpose does happen but in this case, and I agree with tecpilot, that dude had gethomeitis to get his heini kicked upon return.

Did he survive? Is there a weather minima policy in place? And on top of it, the already bruised image of being a helicopter pilot just adds to the list of well wishers at AustroControl and the Department of Transportation. Welcome to the stringent world of operating under JAR regulations. :ouch:

[uncle ian]

I agree with SHortshaft, you never know the whole story and it may have been the better option. It can be done perfectly safely with two crew, the secret is to have the handling pilot facing into the slope so he never, ever looses reference. Trying to follow a moving tagret downhill will always be dangerous; pity no one taught the poor guy the proper technique!

[Bitmonx]

Uncle Ian I never thought of going downhill backwards. That would have been a lot better but was this legal in any case? Weather minima and low level flying? I don't know anything about the JAR's but I would assume it was not legal at all.

[uncle ian]

Hi Bitmonx, I've done it in a military context where the better option was definately to vacate the current location and low flying mandatory but I've also done it in civilian contexts where IMHO the (in UK) 500ft rule does not preclude flying at,say, 10ft over open country......question is how do you know that you are no closer than 500ft to any etc...... when viz is 150ft. I believe I've always been legal......but I would say that, wouldn't I?

[Aesir]

but was this legal in any case?

Uncontrolled airspace = clear of cloud and in sight of surface.

[tecpilot]

Uncontrolled airspace = clear of cloud and in sight of surface.
Clear of clouds and in sight of surface -correct
but have forgotten Aesir
the fully rule
"Clear of clouds and in sight of surface, Flight visibility may be reduced to 800 m for short periods during daylight, if the helicopter is manoeuvred at a speed that will give adequate opportunity to observe other traffic and any obstacles in time to avoid a collision"

Sorry, german ( and in this case also JAR) law!

[Aesir]

Flight visibility may be reduced to 800 m for short periods during daylight

I believe this is a JAR-OPS 3 requirement.

I doubt that he was operationg under JAR-OPS (Public transport) at the time?

[Spunk]

I believe this is a JAR-OPS 3 requirement.

I doubt that he was operationg under JAR-OPS (Public transport) at the time?

Not quite right...

"Clear of clouds and in sight of surface, Flight visibility may be reduced to 800 m for short periods during daylight, if the helicopter is manoeuvred at a speed that will give adequate opportunity to observe other traffic and any obstacles in time to avoid a collision"
is valid for any pilot operating under VFR in Germany. That rule is based on the German LuftVO app. 5.

Spunk

[SHortshaft]

Hi Spunk (and others),

Interesting post! I am guessing that as you can quote from the German regulations you have linguistic tendencies.

Perhaps you can let us know if there has been any preliminary report issued by the German authorities that might shed more light, correct or amplify, what has already been posted on this thread regarding this accident?

Does anyone know of the health of the pilot? I can only hope that regardless of our views as to his part in this tragedy we all wish him a speedy recovery!

SH

[Thomas coupling]

And a speedy departure....from the company I hope?

[spencer17]

It's hard to believe that an id:mad:t destroys a Lama helicopter.:{
Why didn'd he do that to a r:mad:on.
I love Lama's.

Happy landings
Spencer17

[Helipolarbear]

Regarding the flight vis of 800m, thats at the discretion of the local ATCS....JAR OPS-3 / Class G.......yadah yadah!yadah!

I like the wait for better WX, possible quick shag.....makes more sense!

[Thomas coupling]

Press on itis AND ego.