Crunch Meeting for UK Rotorcraft Plans

[Compressorstall]

From Janes Defence Weekly 7 Dec 05:

"Upgrading and improved maintenance suppport for in-service helicopters are emerging as key elements of the UK's Future Rotorcraft Coherency project, which is due to go before MoD procurement Chiefs on 12 Dec.
Under the banner of the Future Rotorcraft effort, it is hoped that a new 'road map' can be agreed after 5 years of confusion over the fate of all the UK's major hellicopter procurement projects.

MoD insiders said the Investment Approvals Board, which recommends procurement plans to Ministers will be presented with a menu of technical and financial options to allow a series of trade-offs to be made.

Plans are now being developed to re-build the UK Royal Air Force's 38 Westland Puma HC1 transport helicopters and the Royal Navy's 42 Westland Sea King HC4/HAS6c utility helicopters to allow them to remain in service until 2026.

This would involve substantial cannibalisation of 40 surplus RN Sea King HAS6s and investment in new overhaul and maintenance facilities.

MoD sources suggest that the helicopters could have their service life extended by up to a decade by spending some £2 million per aircraft.

New procurement is not high on the agenda and a competition for the UK's new battlefield transport helicopter is now not envisaged as starting before 2012.

Any new procurement would be synchronised to cover capability gaps caused by older helicopters being taken out of front-line service for maintenance and upgrade, rather than expanding the current force."

Just thought that this might be of interest to any helo mates out there. Does this mean that you will be flying 60 year-old helicopters on ops - assuming you take Professional Aviator?

[[email protected]]

It just shows what a mess the long term costings have become, too much creative accounting and they suddenly realise there is no money for new helicopters. So what do we do? oh yes buy fighters despite the NAO report highlighting the shortfall in heli lift capability.
The rotary world has always been the poor relation (certainly in the RAF) and there is never any money for upgrades (even if BOIs recommend it - Puma anticipators anyone?). The whole MoD Sea King fleet could be upgraded if they looked at what is available off the shelf from Carson (new MR, TR and frame 290) but doubtless we will pay Westlands a small fortune to bodge it again.

As for flying 60 year old helis - not a problem as long as they are not still on original parts!

[Two's in]

Very similar to last year's vision on the road to Damascus over here. Having worked out how many airframes you could overhaul, modernize and buy new spares for, that number was then balanced against the projected cost of the Comache program, we all know how that turned out. Financially, it makes complete sense to do this, but where do you get the 50 year old airframes from in 50 years time if you don't introduce new equipment?

[SASless]

Roadmaps are fine....but having a definite destination would make planning the trip much easier. But...if one does not have a destination in mind....any road will get you there.

[Compressorstall]

I read the article and wondered what we had done with our 'spend to save' plans we used to have? Lots of people seem to be buying NH90s, Cougars and Merlins whereas it seems that coming to an RAF Station on a visit will be an alternative to Hendon (although the cafe will be a little less pricy than Hendon). The US Navy were going to to do this with the SH60 and then worked out that it wouldn't cost too much more to buy new airframes.

What upgrades will you helo mates get anyway?

[[email protected]]

Compstall - none... all the money went on Apache which is an awesome bit of kit but a bit short on passenger carrying capability.

[Compressorstall]

I'm not going to mention anything about having to carry all that ego round...

[The Helpful Stacker]

Compstall - none... all the money went on Apache which is an awesome bit of kit but a bit short on passenger carrying capability.

Couldn't you mount four of those little litter things that they used to have in M.A.S.H. under the wing stubs?:rolleyes:

Hey, we could always buy some new Chinooks, problem solved. Oh.......;)

[Compressorstall]

I'm sure the oft-maligned Westlands could come up with a re-engineered twin rotor configuration from all the spare Sea King parts...

[BATS]

Twas ever thus; the most committed assets are the ISTAR, RW and transport fleets. The most underfunded are ??????????

[Compressorstall]

They'll just have to keep you on ops for the next 60 years so that the problem stays away.

BATS you are right - the most committed assets are the RW, ISTAR and AT. RW seem to be essential wherever we go on expeditionary ops unless we start invading and operating in countries with a reliable bus service...

[The Helpful Stacker]

But fast jets look and sound cool at air displays, isn't that what the procurement system looks for?

[Compressorstall]

And if you ensure that the rotary mates are always on ops, then they won't be in a position to bring their 60 year-old machines to the air show

[Lyneham Lad]

I'm sure the oft-maligned Westlands could come up with a re-engineered twin rotor configuration from all the spare Sea King parts...
Ooooh what an opportunity - bring back the Belvedere - lots of space in those! :hmm:
(memories of 66 Sqn detachment, Kuching).

[The Helpful Stacker]

We could always get someone from Abbey Wood to pop down to the helicopter museum in Weston-super-mud with some sort of compulsory purchase order.

[Evalu8ter]

All good points well made. The root of the problem is the Defence Industrial "strategy" that we all work under; Westlands is, for better or worse, a national "asset" (albeit with lots of Italian thrown in) and a political hot potato (oh, what if Sikorsky had bought them in the 1980s!). If you read the interview with the CEO of AgW in Defence Helo a while back he pointedly remarked that the future of Yeovil was tied to the BLUH/SCMR/"Find" project. I've some good friends at WHL, and many recognise the shortfalls in their product line (the Merlin, err, how about a re-built Sea King?). Why-oh-why don't they get a licence from BV to build some Chinooks (albeit at an inflated price) and give us what we need. The JHC aspiration is to get down to as few types as possible, so give Mr Carson as many Sea Kings as we can scrape together and replace the Mk4s and Puma with them. Ergo, "Find" = FLynx, Heavy Lift/SF = Chinook 2/3/(4?), Medium lift = Carson SKs and attack is the AH. Now, what do we do with the Merlin? Well George W is getting a few, I'm sure Tony would like to travel in one (and maybe get a natty "banana split" John Deere to drive off it with). Alternatively, answers on a postcard to JHC.....The bottom line is that remanufacturing aircraft is a stop gap, but ultimately a long enough one for contempory politicians.

[Compressorstall]

Didn't Westlands always hope that we would buy into the Merlin concept for the Puma/Sea King Mk 4 replacement? The problem now is that it costs a fortune to go out to play with the big boys and also war might last a few weeks when politicians can crow about equipment capabilities, but it is keeping the fragile peace and rebuilding the country we walloped with our PGMs whilst watching the weapons slam home on our datalinks that really costs the most. Then we find out we need new helicopters...