China wants to build its own planes

[rotornut]

China spreads its wings
Friday 06 January 2006 8:24 AM GMT

China wants to end its reliance on Airbus and Boeing

China intends to make large airliner manufacture a priority from 2010, its defence industry has said.

The Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for Defence (COSTIND) said the aerospace industry will focus on large commercial airline projects from 2010 to 2015.

"The priority for the airline industry [during the period] will be on trunk liners, with research and production to begin at the appropriate time," a press release on the COSTIND website said after its chiefs met this week.

COSTIND has a strong influence over civilian industries that contribute to the nation's defence. No other details were provided on the type of airliner being considered or specific timing.

China has long considered building a 150- to 200-seat commercial aircraft, rather than continuing to rely on Boeing of the United States and Europe's Airbus.

Industry officials urged the central government last year to approve the building of such aircraft before the country's demand for them peaked over the next two decades.

Liu Daxiang, a senior official with the state-owned China Aviation Industry Corporation, said at the time: "If China does not roll out its own trunk-liner by 2020, then the country will not succeed in 2030 or 2040 so it is really a rush.”

China is the third-biggest aviation market in the world after the United States and Europe.

AFP

You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5FBC459D-BC38-465B-AA71-CD24FC760244.htm

[JJflyer]

Would not be the first time China is at it. Y-10 project was started in the 1970's as a 4 engine jet very similar to B707. Only two where ever built. For looksies http://www.airliners.net/open.file/521801/L/ . Does not look much better than A380 but a remarkable achievement of reverse engineering in any case.
Chinese also assembled MD80's and MD90's in Shanghai click here (http://www.samf.cn/fjzzEN.htm) for their site.

[ChiefT]

Europe and America: WATCH OUT FOR CHINA!

They started to copy thingsand they will be soon able to develop own techiques!

That means, that they don't require our technology. The chinese are not interested in cooperation - they only want the design to learn from it, to copy it and later to do it better! And cheaper...

That's the reason, why I don't like the idea from Airbus to build a factory there...

[AN2 Driver]

Nothing new. Many western companies have the shortsightednes to produce there, some in the full knowledge that this will eventually mean the end of many western companies. Problem is that those in charge do not care as they will be gone with a few million severance pay by the time.

Problem will be that once this has happened and China has successfully eliminated Europe and the US as production bases, rendering a few billion people unemployed and the economies in shambles, there won't be much demand for "chinaware" anymore, as there won't be many able to buy their stuff. But again, those in charge won't care as they won't be there when it happens.

It does not work both ways. The consumer and industrial marketplace is shouting very loud for unreasonably low prices, thereby favoring countries with working conditions which amount close to slave labour until the western countries will descend to the same level themselves. Maybe it would be worthwile to think before buying, but that is asking too much of a society which has long given up ethics in favour of a quick buck.

AN2.

[UL730]

Not quite as simple as it sounds because the People's Republic is not on the approved list for many of the raw materials that are critical to modern a/c design. For example certain essential grades of carbon fibre are restricted under Schedule 1 to the Exports of Goods, Transfer of Technology and Provisions of Technical Assistance (Control) Order 2003. Gaining access to either the raw material or the manufacturing process will be monitored very closely. Remember Gerald Bull, Matrix Churchill and Ordinance Technologies?

Strategic and political considerations will play an important and complex role in any future projects. Historically China has not had the propensity to colonise as certain European countries have but the Americans are watching their military progress carefully. One does wonder what happened that Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier dragged out of Bosphorus Straits, a couple of years ago and towed to China for "refitting"

"China wants to end its reliance on Airbus and Boeing" - and it has probably scanned their military products and wants parity here as well. There are many areas of cross over in technology in these fields. The guys at Langley and Cheltenham are not actually totally naïve.

Believe me - anything to do with current aerospace development is slow, detailed and laborious; throw in the fact that China is still not a democracy and 2010 sounds optimistic.

[Dani]

Still playing the rassist tune? Do you really think that an independant high tech industry will pose a (military) threat to the West?

Think through the following arguments:

1. Technology:
China never had and in the near future never will have the know-how, the mean and the organization to play a leading role in technology. How many leading edge technology you know came from China, orginally or copied? How many nobel prizes? Even if you are a good copier, you still laging behind.

2. Strategic considerations:
Why on earth should a powerful China want to "fight" (in any meaning, not only militarily) against the West? China ownes half of the debts of the US. The West is the biggest seller market for Chinese product. Without Western technology transfer, China wouldn't be able to continue their ambitious programs.

3. Economic considerations:
Copying as you call it is only working for local products, since in the rest of the world, they are abolished. Remember that the West also copied itself several times and that technology transfer happened all the time. We stole the Gum plants from the Brazilians to build up the tire industry, European companies are adapting to US invention as the other way around. Noone expects a conspiracy there.
Remember also that it is in the best interest for the world economy to produce the most efficient way. (That's not my invention, dear old Adam Smith told us so.) If China is better in producing any mass market good, let them do it. It is a constant flow of grow and slow down, heavy metal industry in the West is dead, coil industry, who cares, we have found much better ways of production. Do you wish the old 60's back with majorities of blue collar workers?

Finally about Chinese aviation industry:
I predict that there will be no success to this key technologies since this is not only a matter of production but also marketing, safety and organization. No western passenger will ever board a Chinese built aircraft, as noone does in a Russian. This has nothing to do with technological know-how. And those aircraft will always lag behind one generation. Think about fuel consumption, already now one of the biggest concern for Chinese economy.

Dani

[ChiefT]

I think it is only a matter of time. They will have access to resources and will have the technology.

[LowObservable]

I'm not saying that China won't develop a competitive aerospace industry. But does everyone remember the 1980s, when Japan was inevitably going to take over the computer business, just as they took over other home electronics? And when Japan was inevitably going to progress from domination in cars and ships to aviation, because of its MITI-led, long-sighted industrial policy?
And what happened was that a major, competitive new civil aircraft industry did emerge....





.... in Brazil.

Riddle me THAT, Batman, and then we can figure out China.

[JJflyer]

Why Brazil and not Japan. Well answer is simple: Where Japan is expensive, Brazil has cheap labour bringing production costs down.

China has hoards of cheap labour, some highly educated, waiting for an opportunity to put their knowledge in use. My prediction is that Chinese produced aircraft, should they have the technology available, will be considerably cheaper than either a US or EU product.

[Ignition Override]

Western aircraft were built in China years ag0.

An issue of "Air & Space" from the late 80's, or very early 90's described and printed photos of McDonald Douglas MD-82/83s, which were built in a factory which had at some time built Chinese arcraft.

[MarkD]

Aren't China selling some kind of pax a/c to Bob Mugabe's rotten regime?

[Flight Detent]

China wants to build its own civil passenger planes.......hope they are going to be better quality than everything else china has built over the last 10 years.....they are currently building very, very low quality everything......I decided not to buy anything with the 'made in china' label some time ago!!!

Cheers, FD :uhoh:

[jackbauer]

I decided not to buy anything with the 'made in china' label some time ago!!!

So it won't be too long before you will be living in a cave then!

[Flight Detent]

I guess it was only a matter of time B4 some bright fella said that!

As a matter of fact NO!

There are still, believe it or not, quality producys available here in Oz

I say that not knowing where you hail from!!

Cheers, FD :D

[jackbauer]

I guess it was only a matter of time B4 some bright fella said that!
At least we agree on something! Just where do you think your Oz manufacturers get their raw materials/labour from? Not buying goods based ONLY on where they come from sounds a little racist to me. Lets hope the Chinese don't feel the same about Australian goods eh!

[rotornut]

I decided not to buy anything with the 'made in china' label some time ago!!!
Including the components of your computer?

[GARDENER]

No matter what you think there is no doubt that there will be a manufacturer in the Far East producing passenger aircraft and people from all over the world will be getting on them...including you "Flight detent"!
Let me leave you with a thought.......The Chinese successfully sent a rocket into space...and it returned safely.

[barit1]

China continued building steam locomotives long after they were hopelessly obsolete everywhere else.

China will continue building aluminum airplanes long after they are hopelessly obsolete everywhere else.

:ok:

[GARDENER]

You forgot...
China will continue to send men into space in tin cans.....NASA's highly advanced Space shuttle never flew again.
Welcome to the future.