Puma in the what role?

[Jackonicko]

http://www.alexhamilton.net/images/bigCats-over-Basrah.jpg
see:
http://www.alexhamilton.net/big-cats-over-basrah.htm
'Big Cats over Basrah'
My first commission for the Royal Air Force.
A Puma helicopter from 230 (Tiger) Squadron over Iraq's 2nd. city of Basrah during Opration Telic III in 2004. The Squadrons surveillance aircraft first deployed to Iraq in October 2003 and were constantly in the forefront of combat support operations against local insurgents and Former Republican Guard Extremists. The ever-present threat from ground fire is evident, and the Puma is seen deploying its flares to combat a possible Surface to Air Missile launch.
"There is a first time for everything! When I joined the Guild of Aviation Artists, one of my goals was to become more involved with professional pilots, and their organisations. As you might notice from my gallery, this has largely been aimed at the RAF. You can maybe then imagine how proud and excited I was when I recently handed over my first commission for the RAF.
The Squadron was 230 Sdn. operating the Aerospatiale Puma HC1 in the surveillance role. They had contacted me with regard to having a pictorial record of their recent deployment to Basrah, Iraq.
I had never painted a helicopter before, so this would be the first. My initial brief was in the hallowed rooms of The RAF Club (also a first for me!). They had a pretty good idea of what they wanted in as much as a back three-quarter view of the aircraft firing decoy flares over the city......."
see
http://www.alexhamilton.net/news.htm
Years ago one of the big Jane's yearbooks revealed that Pumas in NI were using a Ferranti Barr and Stroud thermal imager (?) called 'Pleasant 3', IIRC, and more recently a read something about P4 (perhaps on another platform) while Doug Barrie in Av Week wrote obliquely about some new surveillance kit on UK helos in Iraq that he called 'Broadsword', but I have to confess that this was all new to me......

[PTT]

No disrespect to yourself Jacko, but anyone with any sense won't be replying. Obviously, I do not include me in that ;)

[Jackonicko]

Except that presumably the Squadron ascertained that this much, at least, was releasable, since the captioned print will be being sold widely.

In any case, I never really understood why the RAF were so coy about Puma, when the AAC were so open about Chancellor Lynx, Finch Gazelle et al.....

[The Helpful Stacker]

I'm not sure about what was in the back of the P3's in Ulster but I do remember hearing about a somewhat embarrassed Puma pilot managing to land with his wheels up on spot 6(?) (the one furthest from buzzard) at Red850 one night.

I'm not sure the exact details as I was enjoying my stint in Golf40 at the time but I understand the damage was very minor.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Whatever it is it can't be that hard to use as they let commisioned ALM's operate it:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[ShyTorque]

The military Puma was designed to have the facility to land gear up - if you see a picture of one in flight with it retracted you will see that the wheels protrude slightly and there are no doors, only open bays.
Then they spoiled the concept by fitting aerials underneath :sad:
To overcome this we used to carry a "sandbag plan" which could be given to a ground support party to build a platform to land on. Then I think that idea was binned; after the Cold War as it wasn't practical as there weren't the same number of ready filled sandbags to hand.
The one aircraft I saw land wheels up after a gear failure was at RAF Odiham in about 1987 - in this case the fire crew just dug holes in the grass for the belly aerials and all was well.

P3? Sorry, no - it never existed. P4 never did either, nor will it's replacement. :E

[jayteeto]

That circuit breaker was fantastic!! You could pull it to inhibit the warning about the gear being up AND pull the gear circuit breaker. How many students were convinced they saw 3 greens??
Oh, those were the days, pull up a sandbag and I will tell you about it.... Oh sorry, no sandbags left. Odiham actually had a ready dug, Puma wheels up pit after that last mishap in 87. Bessbrook didn't :mad::\

[H Peacock]

So I guess the R850 incident was caused by 2/3 Qualified Puma operators all thinking they had seen 3-greens, and not a 'student' with only a handful of hours on the thing!

Furthermore, the resetting of said CBs were part of the pre-landers, were they not??

As for the Puma being designed to land gear-up; the B737 doesn't have doors over it's main wheels, is that for the same reason???

H P
:)

[charliegolf]

One of my last 33 Sqn trips ended up with hours of hovering and low level 'in flight refuelling' because (it turned out) of a dodgy green light. Yes, John Gill and I DID check all the CBs and alternative lights!

Ground crew eventually wheeled out one of those low loader trailer jobbies, already set up with the sand bag plan on it. I think they unscrewed a couple of aerials whilst we hovered, to minimise damage.

Got a feeling it ended up being a 2:40 engine air test authed for 15 mins!

Oh how we used to have fun.....

PS

R850 incident will have had 4 qualified crew (just to rub it in) if pre-'85, and on a PII-ing sortie.

CG (NVG retd.)

[Jackonicko]

Captain Peacock,

R850?

Fondest,

Mrs Slocumb

(and pussy)

[Jackonicko]

On the subject of Puma 'WTF's

http://images.airliners.net/photos/middle/3/1/2/721213.jpg

Finningley '75.......

[PTT]

It's for testing the depth of the snow. :)

[Jackonicko]

Bollocks! I was sure it was for sticking leprechauns.....

[BN Boy]

Jack,

In any event, nice painting! Would you have to charge more if asked to do a twin rotor job?!

[Jackonicko]

Not my painting, but I'm sure the artist (Alex Hamilton) would charge much the same for a Chinook as for a Puma.

I suspect that he's at the stage of accepting all commissions, not at turning them away.

JN

It is a dmaned fine painting, though!

[Tigs2]

Jacko
what was that advert with Thierry Henry? Was it Renault or Peugeot? Along the lines of "its not what you show that counts, but what you dont show" vavaVOOM!
Tigs

[ShyTorque]

Jacko, That looks like a downlink aerial to me - could that photo have actually been Finningley '77 rather than '75?

A Puma was used that year as an airborne TV camera platform for the Queen's Silver Jubilee airshow. :ok:

Or it might be a white stick for blind flying ....... :E

[handysnaks]

I thought it was the automatic loadmaster device.

Are we down yet?
Are we down yet?
'dink'
6 inches to go!

;)

[oldbeefer]

Wheels up?. I had the first one at Odious in '71. Night flying in the circuit - select gear down - big bang and lots of lights. Turned out the nose jack had blown its collar off (a retrictor was later fitted). Refuel in the hover while sandbags were found (the problem hadn't been considered until then). Eventually landed on the two main legs and bags under the nose. Oh happy days (or nights)!

[Dunhovrin]

It's better to look good than be good - get the gear up!

ABiW - You weren't referring to Spermbank were you?

[Incipient Sinner]

I do think it quite amusing that each Puma carries a copy of the sandbag plan. You can just imagine the crewman handing it down to some poor Army oik or civilian on the ground and asking for it to be constructed in the 10 minutes left before the fuel runs out.

All I can say is I'm glad I survived my time without having to play that game.

[Spot 4]

Chinook has already been done:
http://freespace.virgin.net/charles.mchugh/ch47.jpg
18 Sqn available as a print at www.artistic.flyer.co.uk where there is also a Puma, Wessex & Lynx.

and also by M Rondot (7 Sqn) Couldnt find one on the web though, must be special!

[Kim Il Jong]

Dun hovrin, check yer pm's mate.

[idle stop]

The downlinky thing was not for spiking Leprechauns, but for prodding somnulent defence ministers during HM's Finningley Review. (Remember Fred Mulley?.....)

[ShyTorque]

"The downlinky thing was not for spiking Leprechauns, but for prodding somnulent defence ministers during HM's Finningley Review. (Remember Fred Mulley?.....)"

Wish I'd said that, 3 days ago....... Oh, I did. :p

[Jackonicko]

But it didn't have the time travel device poking down through the belly, and the photo dates from 1975, not 1977....

[Dunhovrin]

Nothing liked mutliple converations on a thread:

Spot 4- Thanks for the link. The Puma Bessa print is fantastic. Right down to the realistic damp look to the concrete and the "about to piss down again" colour of the sky. Only thing wrong is the LH cockpit windows should have been papered with 25 thous as the nav tries to find the pick-up point for a serial from 20 minutes ago....

Ahh Finals for the Tube and MTV on the telly. Happy Days.

Quick, somebody shoot me.

[diginagain]

Quick, somebody shoot me.
Won't be your 'Slider' though, will it?

:E

[[email protected]]

The Puma Bessa print is fantastic. Right down to the realistic damp look to the concrete and the "about to piss down again" colour of the sky. Only thing wrong is the LH cockpit windows should have been papered with 25 thous as the nav tries to find the pick-up point for a serial from 20 minutes ago....
Ahh Finals for the Tube and MTV on the telly. Happy Days.
Quick, somebody shoot me.
Is it peppered with holes from where the newly commissioned air steward tried to clear the GPMG with a full belt? :E

[Tiger_mate]

Couldnt see the said bullet holes, but I can see a Puma doing the work whilst the Lynx boys watch TV and drink Tea. Nothings changed then.

http://www.ehangar.com/modules/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_230Puma.jpg

[Jackonicko]

Yes but that painting's ****e. No leprechaun prodder/snow depth sensors and no time travel device poking through the hook hatch.

****e.

[diginagain]

Tiger mate, the Lynx boys always managed to get in, shutdown, weapons cleared, kettle on, MTV selected, and feet up long before you.
:ok:

Edited as I recall now the long walk from your spots, plus you had to retrain the Slider on GPMG drills each time you finished a serial, lest an(other) ND occur.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Is it peppered with holes from where the newly commissioned air steward tried to clear the GPMG with a full belt? :E

No, but the Avtur tanks were.

Oh what a happy day that was.:rolleyes:

[timex]

Couldnt see the said bullet holes, but I can see a Puma doing the work whilst the Lynx boys watch TV and drink Tea. Nothings changed then.


Well we weren't going to get the swill bins were we!!:) :)

[Spot 4]

Thats 2 T_M, any more and youll need a hand reeling them in!:E

[Dunhovrin]

Couldn't let this banter sllide into oblivion:

the Lynx boys always managed to get in, shutdown, weapons cleared, kettle on, MTV selected, and feet up long before you

Hmmm you mean when you should have been doing top cover like say.. @1201L 12/7/94 @ R552? Good job chaps. Leave it to me; I'll deal with myself (to paraphrase James Earl Jones).* At least ChasC was around to lift me and my irons out of the fire. I'm told Lynx 5 from that day is now flying for BA. Says it all really. Why didn't you chaps frag H-S when you had the chance?

[I do hope that's sufficiently obscure - I've had 1 too many Tsingtsao in Brady Ho's].

*- OK Fair's fair the nav did.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Chas C, now what a top gezzer he was:ok:

But of course there's that other classic "Lynx to the rescue" moment:rolleyes: Puma comes under fire, GOC, iirc, on board, takes a hit, big fuel leak and heads for R850.

Lynx gives chase and in the ensuing fire fight has somewhere in the region of 1000 ND's without hitting a bl@@dy thing, well apart from South Armagh, dont you just love the professionals:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[diginagain]

ABIW-Puma comes under fire, GOC, iirc, on board, takes a hit, Are you absolutely certain about the protagonists?????
:E

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

I suppose the offending vehicles could have been "manned" by you TWA guys:E .............. given that they fired hundreds of HMG rounds and other assorted small arms stuff and only managed to put one hole in the mighty plastic persuit ship:p

However what is not a matter for conjecture is that the Lynx follow up was about as effective as "Just for Men" on Duncan Goodhew:ok: All those rounds fired and still could'nt hit a cows ar@e with a banjo:eek: Gave us Puma boys a real warm fuzzy feeling having you professionals as top cover I can tell you:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[diginagain]

Just to keep the banter going, can anyone give me the number of rounds launched from the 'mighty plastic pursuit ship', not including range details nor those expended into TSW property? (Rounds 'borrowed' from you as replen don't count either).
:ok:

[lsh]

Ah Mr B.B.B.B.B.B----N
Go on say it!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

None to the best of my knowledge which, considering the blatent disregard to the ROE that opening fire with a suppresive fire weapon entailed and the potential legal implications that would follow, it was a blessing in disguise:ok:

But to grasp the real reason for this extended period of weapon discipline you have to try and understand the main differances between Army and RAF aircrew.

RAF aircrew are recruited, be they Pilot, Nav or Loadie based on extremely strict medical and educational standards:ok:

Army aircrew initially join as soldiers, initial selection is based simply on their in built ability and desire to punch f@ck out of anything they don't understand.:E Discovering at a later date suitability for aircrew does not however, remove the initial mindset:p

RAF outbriefs left no one in any doubt that the Captain was in charge however all captains I flew with understood fully the limitations of the weapon and the fact that issuing an order to open fire would not put HIM in the dock. With this in mind every captain I flew with told me that if I decided to ignore his command to open fire then he would back my decision all the way.

I often wonder how many poor Lynx door gunners understood fully the implications of simply following the orders of the soldier in the front seat who was initially selected for his desire to punch/kill things:rolleyes:

Like the poor sap who, on his front seaters orders put a whole box of 1 in 1 into Southern Ireland....................Good skills guys:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Lafyar Cokov]

Just to keep the banter going, can anyone give me the number of rounds launched from the 'mighty plastic pursuit ship', not including range details nor those expended into TSW property? (Rounds 'borrowed' from you as replen don't count either).

Errrrr - quite a few on current ops to be fair!!!!

[The Helpful Stacker]

I've never been quite sure about you ABIW but I'm starting to warm to you now.
I could tell you a story about a few TWA types (non-screaming sperm) who spent so long away from R850 one day that they had to land 'somewhere in SA' (sáns Mr Shell's finest), and the subsequent sheepish colleague who had to ask us nicely to leave our warm office with pump, filter and hoses in tow in order to perform a defuel/refuel in situ, but of course that could never have happened could it?
:rolleyes:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Apologies Lafyar, was just referring to my times in the Emerald isle, and as for you HS I find that story to be highly unbelievable...........................bearing in mind the aviation prowess of the "punchy" ones:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced