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Heliport
24th Sep 2005, 20:25
Washington Post report
Helicopter Crashes Into Ocean Off Kauai

LIHUE, Hawaii -- A tour helicopter carrying a pilot and five passengers crashed into the ocean near a reef, killing two people.

Three survivors managed to swim to the reef and refused medical treatment; the fourth was plucked from the water but was "not responsive" when taken to a hospital, according to Mary Daubert, Kauai County spokeswoman.

The helicopter operated by Las Vegas-based Heli USA Airways was carrying three men and three women when it crashed Friday afternoon, said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. DesaRae Janszen.

Shortly before the crash, the pilot reported encountering wind shear, said Scott Ishikawa, a spokesman for the state Department of Transportation.

Heli USA operates helicopter tours in Hawaii over Kauai and Oahu, and over the Grand Canyon from Las Vegas, according to the company's Web site.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/hawaii_island.jpg

Gordy
24th Sep 2005, 21:11
Here are more details from another site

From Kauai (http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2005/09/24/news/news01.txt)

Gatvol
25th Sep 2005, 16:14
Sad story that wont end anytime soon. One item that hits home to me is the fact that a lot of these folks fly over water "legally" but for the most part know that if they go in the water, someone is not going home.
I think more than one person in this incident perished. No mention of that here yet.
Anyway the FAA states the rules in Part 135.183 regarding operations. The carrier in this case was I believe operating under part 135, Im sure that will be manipulated down the road.. The little ditty in this rule states that "it is operated at an altitude that allows it to reach land in case of an engine failure."
All well and good 99% of the time. Although Im sure there are some areas where this gets stretched a bit based on a coastline with no beach in places.
Anyway as the rumor mill drifts on, this particular incident had other factors ie. inclement weather and the possibility of another aircraft in the vicinity which could have added pressure to someone heading for the beach in compliance to part 135.
As a guesstimate the weather alone could have placed the aircraft out of the envelope as required. Another Aircraft just adding to the problem.
As nothing formal has come out, let alone the totality of the accident all the above is speculation. Folks love to jump on speculation........
Bottom line and the main point is not about the accident but the fact that a lot of operators hang their wallets on not purchasing pop-outs based on the fact that the "99% of the time" will keep them out of trouble. Heres a good example of the 1% thats cost lives and a ton more than a good set of floatation devices on the skids.
This could happen to ANY of the operators. bad fortune just placed it in the laps of one.
The Buzzards in the legal profession are already landing on the fence.

As of Monday 9/26 it appears a total of three perished in this accident. It is also extremely surprising that none of the folks in the Hawaii tour business have commented as they usuaully do regarding another operator. Could be they all feel a bit of guilt as most all are wearing the same shoes.

Check 6
25th Sep 2005, 19:08
I can not address this specific accident, but along some of the Kauai coastline there are no beaches, helispots, meadows, other other suitable places to put a helo.

I flew out of Barking Sands for a while (with floats) and you would be hard pressed to find a place to land along the Napali Cliffs in the event of an engine failure.

Yes, until the FAA says so, most operators will not install floats or purchase twins on Kauai.

http://www.wingsoverkauai.com/slideshow/images/Napali-rainbow-450.jpg

Gordy
26th Sep 2005, 15:39
Check 6,

I beg to differ....I flew tours on Kauai for seven years. There are numerous landing areas along the Napali coast including the mile long Kalalau beach, which has a helipad for two helicopters, Honopu beach and many others. I have landed at the beaches numerous times. All of the landing areas have been approved by the FAA. There are even emergency helipads in the valleys in your picture---I have pictures of them on my other computer which I will try to post tonight.

http://weddingvideoflorida.com/images/fw1058.jpg

To give an idea of size, this is Honopu beaches, the left beach is about 1000 feet long.



http://weddingvideoflorida.com/images/fw1003.jpg



http://weddingvideoflorida.com/images/fw1052.jpg
This is Kee Beach within half a mile of the accident.

Check 6
26th Sep 2005, 15:54
Gordy, poor use of words on my part. I meant to say "autorotate" to. Those beaches would be fine if you happened to be over them when your donk caughed.

Check 6

Steve76
26th Sep 2005, 16:32
Why the talk about engine failures? This is about wind shear.
Wind shear? There is more to this story than what is being said.

Gordy
26th Sep 2005, 20:48
Check 6,
I agree some of the areas would be tough to autorotate to, especially in the valleys. However, Kalalau, Honopu, Hanakapiai (in the summer), and Kee should not present a major chalenge. Having just recently left Kauai, I do know that the weather is extremely "dynamic". I will not speculate as to this accident, or make observations relating to a specific company. In general, weather issues rear their head all day long and decisions have to be made. Most times pilots have a hard time making them----fly through a rain shower with reduced visibility and land on time----or----turn around and add an extra minutes, (as many as 30 depending upon where you encounter the rain), onto your tour length and suffer the wrath of the company.

B Sousa
26th Sep 2005, 22:40
Link:http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050926/NEWS01/509260316


Another Link:http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/5033991/detail.html?subid=22100441&qs=1;bp=t


Latest Link:http://www.kauaiworld.com/articles/2005/09/29/news/news02.txt

Hidden Agenda
19th Nov 2005, 03:35
From the Associated Press.

“Prosecutors on Kauai have opened a homicide investigation into a tour helicopter crash that claimed the lives of three people in September.

Glen Lampton was the pilot of the Heli U-S-A Airways helicopter that crashed. He told investigators that just before the accident, he suddenly saw another helicopter coming straight for him, made a left turn to avoid an accident and encountered heavy rain.

Lampton's helicopter descended rapidly and crashed into the ocean along Kauai's North shore, leaving three of his passengers dead. He and two other passengers survived.”

Is this another “only in America” issue? I only hope that there is more to it than AP are telling us; or has the world gone crazy? What is the prosecutor’s angle? Perhaps an ‘inadvertent’, and therefore potentially negligent, entry into IMC with a consequent breach of the Visual Flight Rules being a primary cause of the accident?

Perhaps it is an example of just how, as pilots and mechanics, we now have to be extremely careful in everything we do so as not to leave ourselves open to criminal charges for manslaughter or homicide in the event of being involved in a fatal accident.

B Sousa
19th Nov 2005, 14:43
Is this another “only in America” issue? I only hope that there is more to it than AP are telling us; or has the world gone crazy? What is the prosecutor’s angle? Perhaps an ‘inadvertent’, and therefore potentially negligent, entry into IMC with a consequent breach of the Visual Flight Rules being a primary cause of the accident?

As many of us do not know what happened and can only guess based on what we hear or read in the Media, the above should be no surprise.
As Pilots we also should be able to read between the lines.
Since we have the title of "Rumor Network" anyone can take a guess as to what happened. As an example using the media he suddenly saw another helicopter coming straight for him, made a left turn to avoid an accident and encountered heavy rain.
Ok, lets GUESS........Non Instrument rated Pilot makes a sudden move in IMC, probably more than one would do in Instrument conditions. Where am I?? Aircraft is low. Splash. We assume there was another aircraft out there, so who was he and what is his side of the story??
As to the courtroom Drama, it sounds as if the Prosecutor is looking towards another Pilot as responsible versus the Pilot who crashed. Heres another twist. Some Prosecutor with maybe a little or no Helicopter experience is going to stick his nose in??Too many things to GUESS about in a serious matter like this. I think sit back and watch what happens would be better. Whatever the outcome one of US now has to live with this tradgedy for the rest of his life.

Gerhardt
20th Nov 2005, 20:10
The last I read about this was that the surviving passengers didn't see another helicopter and the authorities were unable to establish the presence of another helicopter in the area.

But to investigate this as a homicide seems a bit harsh.

Gordy
20th Nov 2005, 21:21
Hawaii Link (http://starbulletin.com/2005/11/18/news/story05.html)

Here is a link to the article in the Honolulu advertiser.

Gerhardt
21st Nov 2005, 00:05
Thanks for the link to the article. After seeing the picture everyone should be incredibly thankful that the pilot and one passenger survived. I'm sorry for the other losses but very glad that two made it out.

SHortshaft
21st Nov 2005, 01:52
The picture shows, yet again, that the Eurocopter AS350 cabin design offers little more than rain protection to the people on board. There is next to no protection given by the canopy in the event of an accident.

One of the surreal images I have embossed in my memory is watching a vertical split open up in the canopy, from the bottom to the top, in the seconds after I made a forced landing on to a steep slope following the loss of the tail rotor (literally).

As has been mentioned in other threads some of the cabins on helicopters of other manufactures are more rigid and offer quite a lot of protection and improve the survivability of an accident.

Flying Lawyer
29th Dec 2005, 14:54
Pilot who survived helicopter crash indicted

HONOLULU --A helicopter pilot has been indicted with manslaughter for crashing a tour helicopter on Kauai's North Shore.

Glen Lampton is believed to be the first pilot involved in a helicopter crash in Hawaii to face criminal prosecution, said Kauai First Deputy Prosecutor Richard Minatoya.

Lampton was flying the Heli USA Airways helicopter that plunged into the ocean near Haena Point on Sept. 23. Lampton and five passengers survived the crash. Three others, including Catherine Baron and Mary H. Soucy of Portland, Maine, were killed.

Lampton was indicted in seven counts, including three counts for manslaughter and two counts in reckless endangering in the second degree, one count of falsification to authorities and one count in tempering with evidence. If convicted for manslaughter, he could face a maximum of 20 years in prison on each count.

Lampton plans to plead not guilty and post bail when he flies to Kauai on Jan. 13 for his arraignment, according to his attorney, Sam King Jr. Bail was set at $100,000.

Lampton is still employed by Heli USA, where he is performing administrative work.

Lampton told investigators that just before the crash, he suddenly saw another helicopter coming straight for him, made a left turn to avoid an accident and encountered heavy rain, the National Transportation Safety Board has reported.

The two surviving passengers, Karen and Bill Thorson of Beloit, Wis., have said they saw another helicopter at the time, but it was so far away they didn't believe Lampton had to maneuver to avoid hitting it.
(Associated Press report)

SASless
29th Dec 2005, 15:28
Looking at the Kee Beach photograph....it does appear a very long way between beaches suitable for any kind of landing. It is not how many places there are to land....but if there is one available when you need it. I don't see that being the case in the Kee Beach photograph.

What do the beaches look like at High Tide? High and dry as in the photographs?

The FAR that says "in case of engine failure" explains the FAA mindset.....they ignore about a thousand other reasons one might find himself bobbin' in the oggin'.

Please to remember this is the exact same FAA that agreed with the airlines when they asked to remove life rafts from flights operating along the East Coast of the United States. They argued and the FAA accepted it being a statistical improbability that all three engines of a 727 would fail and thus life rafts on those overwater sectors were not needed (....more passengers could be carried I guess).

Two weeks later, an FE got the board confused, and managed to flame out all three engines. The crew managed to get the engines restarted but it was a close....close thing. The same FAA then decided rafts were a good thing for airliners.

Of course this is the same FAA that takes a hands off approach to the Gulf of Mexico Offshore Industry as well. How many deaths we see down there last year?

SASless
29th Dec 2005, 16:31
The FAR that says "in case of engine failure" explains the FAA mindset.....they ignore about a thousand other reasons one might find himself bobbin' in the oggin'.

Forgive him Father...he knows not what he says!

;)


Now that the tirade is over....what do you really think Nick?

Hidden Agenda
30th Dec 2005, 01:03
Maybe one of PPRuNe's ‘legal eagles’ could help out here.

Given a similar scenario, where a pilot is charged with manslaughter following the death of a passenger in an accident, what would the prosecutor have to prove to obtain a verdict of guilty against a pilot?

SHortshaft
19th Jan 2006, 12:28
The NTSB Preliminary Report is now available. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20051003X01565&key=1

Flingwing207
19th Jan 2006, 15:48
From the NTSB report: The pilot opted to reduce airspeed to 60-80 knots and started a 15-20 degree right turn over the beach. The helicopter got about 160 degrees into the turn when the airspeed went to zero and the aircraft started to rapidly descend. The pilot attempted to control the helicopter with control inputs which had no effect. The pilot stated that he realized that they were going to hit the beach and applied full power. The rate of descent suddenly stopped and the helicopter went back up in the air momentarily and entered an immediate hard spin to the left. The pilot instructed the passengers to open the doors and he transmitted a MAYDAY call as the helicopter impacted the water, bounced back into the air, then impacted the water again, still spinning...Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt for the moment, and say that this is (to the best of his recollection) the way things seemed to happen. I know of an accident (nobody hurt, aircraft destroyed) where it took months for the CFI to sort out the mystery of why it happened - as in what would cause a student to make the control inputs they did. It also showed the CFI was, in hindsight, undertrained - something the CFI could not have known beforehand...

It could be that this pilot has no idea what happened - that doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but is he negligent if the operator allows or demands flights in conditions where a pilot could be pushed beyond their level of competence or training? It's one thing if the pilot knowingly flew into a situation he knew he shouldn't (or claimed expertise where none existed), another thing entirely if an operator puts a pilot into a situation that the pilot is unable to recognize as dangerous, until they are given the lesson by the hard school of experience.

I suspect in the end, the results of the trials and lawsuits will not reflect the reality of the day, nor will the pilot's recollection. It's human nature to truely believe "I could NOT have done that - I am better than that, it must have happened like THIS...". I just hope that something positive comes from all this, even if it's only that pilots to come benefit from the learning that this experience provides - even Paradise has clouds, and not all of those clouds have silver linings.

Shawn Coyle
19th Jan 2006, 23:58
..."started to descend rapidly..." "...control inputs had no effect...."
Sounds to me suspiciously like he got into (dare I say it???) Vortex Ring State, and was lucky that pulling power when he did got him out of it.
And then it appears he didn't anticipate that the maximum power heave on the collective might need some tail rotor to compensate...

If that's what really happened - without a data recorder, we'll never really know.

imabell
20th Jan 2006, 00:46
"oh no"" you dared to say it shawn.

doesn't sound like it at all if he "pulled power" and the machine stopped descending. that means he must have had the collective either down or in a normal position, not conducive to vortex ring or to use a more correct terminology, "settling with power".

sounds like he got into an unusual attitude in imc (flew into heavy rain) and couldn't recover in time.

especially looking at the damage.

he must have hit the water sideways at speed to rip the cabin off and the seats out to that extent.:hmm: :hmm: :confused:

Nimbus5
20th Jan 2006, 12:50
Based on info in the Honolulu Advertiser article, it would appear the guy has not been charged yet, in fact he appears to have moved out of Kauai. It also appears that the pilots usually don't survive, so nobody's been around to charge before.

Basically the prosecutor's investigation is the same they would do in a suspicious car crash. In the end, nothing at all may come of it from the criminal point of view. You can bet there will be a civil lawsuit though (Why do we call them civil?).

The blown out canopy is a fairly classic result from a high speed water impact. I saw the wreckage of a CH-46 that crashed off the windward side of Oahu once after losing the forward rotor to tie-bar failure. The aircraft fell from 1000 feet and 120 knots impacting on it's back. The air pressure inside was so strong that one entire side of the fuselage blew out and was salvaged in one piece. Hit it hard and fast enough and water does not move out of the way, glass, plastic and metal do as seems to have happened here.

Floats might have done no good at all other than possibly making salvage easier. The available info seems to show the pax drowned, but I suspect they might have had severe head injuries based on damage to the canopy. If the aircraft touched down in an unusual attitude as it appears to have, floats might have simply caused an upside down machine to stay on the surface while the injured tourists inside breathed their last gulp of saltwater.

scottishbeefer
23rd Jan 2006, 10:21
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing of course, however...

...Don't see how you can discount Vortex Ring, whether inadvertant (ie met induced) or not. We're not all American, so you can ease off on the "more correct" terms!

My concerns are more with the fact that the NTSB report highlights how many other aircraft were prepared to violate their minima to continue their tours. 100ft with fee-paying pax?! Mama mia - you'd better have a good reason for that versus doing a 180deg turn and saying sorry folks, the ride's over.

Was this a single-engine Squirrel? If so, the odds are massively against making any of the so-called suitable areas if the donkey stops. Did the pax have lifejackets for a prolonged flight over the water? Is the industry so focussed on the bottom line that it's prepared to put lives at stake. Does anyone in the safety chain care?

SASless
23rd Jan 2006, 11:42
Beefer...

The entire helicopter industry puts lives at risk at some point. I would remind you of the North Sea in Winter....and how sea states in excess of Sea State Six put everyone at risk in the event of a ditching....particularly after dark.

That the Hawaii based tour operators would do something akin to that ....should come as no surprise to you.

The GOM operators reluctance to be rid of single engine helicopters is yet another way people are put at risk....winter operations over cold water in single engine machines with no immersion suits is not a very "safe" thing to do I would argue.

The "bottom line" drives all operator's safety programs...that is life.

scottishbeefer
23rd Jan 2006, 12:28
...or rather, "a lack of".

Affirm SAS, please excuse my commercial naivety! My thrust is that as a SAR wallah of reasonable experience, I would want one of my pilots to be able to justify why he kept on going, if he'd encountered some problem and perservered. Popping down to 100ft (no doubt visually judged) with any pax (let alone mere tourists) sounds like a tough sell if it all goes wrong but I understand the imperative to keep your job is probably a very persuasive one.

SAR boys out there - spare me any tales of how tough the decisions can be - VMT! No pi**ing contest required. Unless we're gonna establish a standalone SAR page?

Shawn Coyle
23rd Jan 2006, 13:56
Regarding Hawaiian operators and floats. I had an interesting discussion with a senior FAA person (who, because he's a good friend and a good guy for helicopters, shall remain nameless) told me that by working with the various industry alphabet groups had been able to persuade the operators to fit floats. His contribution was to make sure that the Feds didn't put too many obstacles in the way of getting this done. We'll see what happens, but what a neat move.