UK IR(H) extension to new types

[SFIM]

Hi Guys,

As i understand it you either have an instrument rating or you dont (obvious eh!), but also they are type specific

so if you want to extend your instrument rating to a new type you have to do additional training and another IR test on the new type (5 hours total??)

so my question is, lets say you have an IR on a multi pilot helicopter like an AS332L and you wanted to extend it to a single pilot helicopter like an AS355, does it make any difference if it is your first single pilot type compared to someone else who already had a both a single and a multi pilot type on their licence already?

JAR, dont you just love it !!!!

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: SFIM ]

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: SFIM ]</p>

[Rotorbike]

<a href="http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_gid16.pdf" target="_blank">www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_gid16.pdf</a>

I believe that the above document should answer your questions. Specificly page 4 which states:

Single Pilot Helicopter (SPH) and Multi-Pilot Helicopter (MPH) Instrument Rating (IR)privileges are separate and must be re-validated separately

Also in order that you take an instrument check in an aircraft you must be type rated in it.... You don't need 5 hours of instrument training in it unless it is from a single engine type to a multi engine type.

<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[SFIM]

Rotorbike,

thanks for that just read it answers most questions, however I am still not sure if someone who is looking for issue of his first single pilot IR type to be added to his licence, has to do anything more in terms of testing than someone who is looking for his second single pilot IR type assuming they both have multi Pilot IR types as well

does anyone know? (after this I will give up)

[Nick Lappos]

To point out differences CAA Vs FAA, the FAA Instrument rating is neither single or twin, it is an instrument rating for that category and class. With it you can fly on instruments in similar flying machines. Separately, you must meet currency requirements in the aircraft category and class (as in rotorcraft-helicopter) to fly with passengers (logged 6 hours actual or simulated instruments and 6 instrument approaches in the last 6 months). That means that an S-76 pilot must keep current, and he/she can fly any helicopter on instruments.

If you fly commercially (psrt 135 air taxi for example), you must meet the commercial standards - which require a type check on the aircraft that you fly for hire, that must be repeated each 6 months. The type check spot checks your instrument proficiency, as well as handling and emergencies. The check is typically given by your company check pilot (an FAA designee), often as part of a regular revenue trip. It can also be given in a sim.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Nick Lappos ]</p>

[Kalif]

If your IR is endorsed multi-pilot then you have to do an IRT as single pilot. . .As said, you need to be type rated as the Type specific IR is part of the type rating. . .In the case of an AS355 that conversion can be up to eight hours; that depends on experience.. .Although I don't think there is any laid down requirement, the CAA generally expect you to have done two hours instrument training on type prior to the IRT.

[Geronimo 33]

Rotorbike......If I renew my single pilot IFR in a crew served aircraft but fly two crew....must I then do a multi-crew IF ride? Example....Bell 212 or 412 may be flown single pilot IFR but usually is done with a two pilot crew. Situation: Airtest for an annual C of A on a 212 requires single engine height climbs which has to be done IMC/IFR in order to complete them per the C of A requirement. I am authorized to fly the 212 single pilot, have a single pilot IF rating on the 212, can I file IFR or fly IMC ? If I take along a second pilot who does not have an IF rating in the 212,but does have the IF rating in six other helicopters, may he handle the controls while IMC?

[Rotorbike]

Geronimo 33..... My guess reading the wonderful CAA/JAA regulations is yes you would have to do a multi crew IF ride to fly two crew.

No you can't file IF in the 212 single pilot but you can for the 412 as the 212 isn't certified single pilot Instrument. Isn't minimum crew for IFR operation for the 212 two crew???

And the last bit no he can't touch the controls unless you are an instructor rated pilot in the 212.

I'm not saying I'm right with the answers and they aren't the same if you are under FAA regulations (which are so much simpler).

[Geronimo 33]

Rotorbike.....

The 212 has been flown single pilot IFR for years, sometimes with special equipment and specific authorization from various legal bodies. In general your statement that the 212 is certified for two pilot IFR is correct. I think the conflict in making the statement about "IFR" can also be the concept of "IMC" in uncontrolled airspace thus not IFR and such interesting nuances of the law as applied throughout the world and by definitions and actual practices of various operators. Compound that by the ignoring of MEL restrictions due to unserviceable equipment and all of this becomes a philisophical argument rather than a real effort to establish what the law is supposed to set forth.

In the locale, where I work, single pilot IMC/IFR is a standard method of operation in Bell 212's without Flight Directors and only the normal instrumentation installed. The GPS's installed have never had a database card renewed and are not approved for IFR but that has never deterred the company from using them IMC. All of the contracts now require two pilots but in the past, we operated the exact same aircraft at the same locations, doing the same operations, but we did it with only one pilot. The C of A situation is a regular recurring event as are engine topping checks, etc....and are done by a single pilot and an engineer even if it requires flight into IMC conditions.